Comments

ResearcherZero • November 18, 2023 2:25 AM

At PwC Cyprus, staff exchanged documents marked “URGENT” and “PLEASE APPROVE” as they prepared paperwork to sell Mordashov’s stake in German travel company TUI Group — reportedly worth well over $1 billion — to a British Virgin Islands company owned by his life partner, Maria Mordashova.

Leaked internal paperwork related to the planned share transfer was dated March 2022 or marked “URGENT,” suggesting the deal was not complete by the time Mordashov was sanctioned.
https://www.occrp.org/en/cyprus-confidential/cyprus-wing-of-auditing-giant-pwc-may-have-breached-sanctions-in-work-for-oligarch

“On February 28, four days after the invasion and the same day the EU imposed sanctions on him, Mordashov transferred his 29.9 per cent stake in German travel group Tui from his Cyprus-registered Unifirm to a British Virgin Islands entity controlled by Marina Mordashova, believed to be his third wife.”

‘https://www.ft.com/content/2f850c36-aafc-4f36-96c5-f2b533334c2c

“It is in the euro zone and its financial services industry is ultimately regulated by the European Central Bank. It is not Panama.”
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorials/2023/11/16/the-irish-times-view-on-the-cyprus-confidential-papers-an-all-too-familiar-offshore-story/

Schneider himself is said to have added to the contract a statement claiming that he had the “resources, know-how and networks necessary to provide the commercial, legal, financial, tax, regulatory and other advice.”

‘https://www.luxtimes.lu/luxembourg/investigation-reveals-former-ministers-earnings-from-russian-oligarchs/4765789.html

–

“Dreamer and Legacy are among more than a dozen income sources, paying millions, that the mayor had refused to detail until he briefly ran for president, dropping out in August. Finker, Frenkel and Makarov have all been generous charitable donors in South Florida.”

‘https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/miami-mayor-suarez-s-secret-side-gigs-included-advising-associates-of-kremlin-linked-oligarch/ar-AA1jVW4D

ResearcherZero • November 18, 2023 2:42 AM

@lurker

Some of the issues are fixed in v6.4, along with patches for packaged versions.

‘https://github.com/squid-cache/squid/security/advisories/

–

Bangladesh “lawful communication interception facilities” breached.

‘https://www.wired.com/story/ntmc-bangladesh-database-leak/

Vague explanation for it’s existence.

https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/302608/minister-govt-plans-to-introduce-lawful

–

“a greenhouse for companies which produce spyware.”

NSO Group has claimed that it exports its products from Cyprus, though the Cypriot government denied that it has ever granted an export license to the company.

“In leaked correspondence from a separate investigation, a lawyer for a French company that was part of the Intellexa alliance wrote that if cyber-surveillance equipment was combined with other goods and routed to a third country before going on to its final destination, the company did not have to declare the end user to export authorities.”

‘https://www.icij.org/investigations/cyprus-confidential/israeli-predator-spyware-cyprus-offshore-intellexa/

–

Inadvertent compliance issues, better reporting recommended.

‘https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/hpsci_fisa_reauthorization_2023_report.pdf

–

Everything is fine. Life, living within the sun’s atmosphere, can continue as normal.

‘https://phys.org/news/2023-11-earth-future-habitability-space-weather.html

ResearcherZero • November 18, 2023 2:46 AM

There is no workaround for the HTTP Request Smuggling issue. (HTTP/1.1 and ICAP)

‘https://github.com/squid-cache/squid/security/advisories/GHSA-j83v-w3p4-5cqh

ResearcherZero • November 18, 2023 3:25 AM

A temperature inversion may have helped Ukraine identify Russian warship.

With cooler air at lower altitudes and warmer air above it, radar signals can refract off the atmosphere, carrying them much farther than in normal conditions.

“During such conditions, the atmospheric index of refraction decreases rapidly with height, making electromagnetic radiation bend downward to, partly or fully, compensate the curvature of the Earth.”

‘https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/bams/aop/BAMS-D-23-0113.1/BAMS-D-23-0113.1.xml

Winter • November 18, 2023 5:09 AM

@ResearcherZero

With cooler air at lower altitudes and warmer air above it, radar signals can refract off the atmosphere, carrying them much farther than in normal conditions.

Very easy to perceive. At a quiet evening at the shore of a lake, you can hear sounds all the way from a boat or the shore at the other side by this effect.

Clive Robinson • November 18, 2023 6:15 AM

@ JonKnowsNothing,

Re : Harms that beget harms.

This might be of interest to you as it demonstrates that some people do not get the idea of a “healthy population” due to their silly political mantras.

It’s the bottom few paragraphs that highlight the “moronic thinking”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/16/unemployed-benefits-in-jeremy-hunt-autumn-statement

What is not mentioned is Hunt was once incharge of health and the UK NHS. During his tenure there things went badly wrong in many ways due to “right-wing mantra”[1] and the rest of the world got to know him as the man that refused to alow the UK NHS upgrade from Win XP as it was a needless expense, thus it got hit by malware / ransomware very very badly (and still does as his base policies have not been changed).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/health-department-it-security-wannacry-nhs-hack-report-jeremy-hunt-funding-national-audit-office-nao-marcus-hutchins-a8021881.html

Whilst it was not just the “don’t pay for cover” it was also “don’t pay for upgrades” and “don’t pay for IT staff” etc etc.

And his dire policies were not fundamentally changed which is why it is still “all just talk”,

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-strategy-to-protect-nhs-from-cyber-attacks

And as the old saying has it,

“Talk is cheap”

Especially when it’s just “trash talk”.

But his other “Health Policies” left the NHS in poor shape, so when C19 came “a knocking” he and his like minded incumbents turned the UK into “The dirty man of Europe”. With the all to predictable sequellli of Long Covid not just arising but hitting a substantial fraction of the “economically active” with something like 2million rendered infirm.

But his cronies can not find people to fill their “zero hours” and similar appaling working conditions jobs, so he’s now “victim blaiming” those he so badly harmed. Knowing full well that those employers will persecute those seen as disabled even further, with the downside of disability makes it worse…

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2023/11/14/its-disability-pay-gap-day-so-heres-how-much-less-disabled-people-earn-spoiler-its-a-lot/

[1] His “mission” almost always is to implement the worst of the worst via faux-markets, so that certain people who no one in their right mind would have anything to do with can profit geatly at the tax payers expense by providing usless or worse service at eye wateringly cost.

&ers • November 18, 2023 10:52 AM

@ALL

hxxps://sundries.ua/en/elon-musk-says-zaluzhnyi-values-the-lives-of-his-people-and-calls-zelenskyy-a-butcher/

I wonder when UA access to the Starlink is cutted down?

Oh, and if anyone wants to play. Nice simulation.

hxxps://starlink.sx/

Winter • November 18, 2023 11:07 AM

&ers

elon-musk-says-zaluzhnyi-values-the-lives-of-his-people-and-calls-zelenskyy-a-butcher

Blaming the victim, as usual. Typical men’s talk:
Come on, it’s her own fault. She shouldn’t have been wearing such a short skirt

JonKnowsNothing • November 18, 2023 1:17 PM

@Clive, All

re: healthy population v sickly population

The arguments are on-going in a number of countries, all of them proposing ludicrous outcomes. More of the Blame the Poor self-righteous attitudes, not really believed but self-deceived by illiberal economies. We may decry places with forced labor and gulags but western economies build the same things for the same reasons.

  • people continue to commit suicide over the stress, hassle, embarrassment, physical and mental difficulties in obtaining Basic Humane Support.
  • plans to use Wegovy obesity drug to “target and profile” probable “Back to Work” candidates and of course get a nice fat government contract for doing it.
  • plans to ignore existing conditions in housing, education, food insecurity.
  • plans to reduce the number of caregiver hours.

there are only four kinds of people in this world:

* those who have been caregivers;
* those who are currently caregivers,
* those who will be caregivers,
* those who will need caregivers.

Rosalynn Carter (1)

In their book Deaths of Despair Anne Case, Angus Deaton (2) make strong arguments about when, where and how we got to this point in our society. While their work focuses on the USA and how the USA is an outlier compared to other countries, one can see the same shifting focus beginning to take root globally.

I think the item that terrifies me most, is when will I be targeted? I find myself in the Villa of Reduced Circumstances. I survive on food pantry donations (a complex web of food allocation). I have a rare blood disorder and take a drug that costs $11,000 USD per month. I am on a medical charity program which requires annual renewal (soon). I am on a utility charity program to pay for heat, cooling, electricity that requires biannual approval (soon) but even with that adjustment I must turn off the heat-cooling from 4pm-9pm 7days with no heat-cooling at night. My savings and retirement fund covers only 2/3 of my monthly expenses.

I did not plan to be in this situation. However 2008 snagged a lot of people and I was one of them. Even the most cautious was not immune to what happened.

I am a prime target for these policies. It is terrifying to navigate the traps and pitfalls they are laying. One missed pension check is all it takes to start the slide. (3)

In other countries the effects of missed or delayed pension checks regularly makes the news cycle.

===

note: I am not providing URLs as there are plenty of current examples

1)
ht tps://www.theguardian. com/us-news/2023/nov/17/rosalynn-carter-jimmy-carter-hospice-care

2) ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_despair

  • A disease of despair is one of three classes of behavior-related medical conditions that increase in groups of people who experience despair due to a sense that their long-term social and economic prospects are bleak. The three disease types are drug overdose (including alcohol overdose), suicide, and alcoholic liver disease.

Case A, Deaton A (2020). Deaths of Despair and the Future of Capitalism. Princeton University Press. ISBN 978-0-691-19078-5.

ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Case

ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Deaton

3) The US Government regularly threatens a shut down over the budget. Another stop gap agreement is in place.

JonKnowsNothing • November 18, 2023 1:39 PM

@Clive, All

re: HAIL Storm coming for Dec37

  • USA House speaker Mike Johnson said Friday [11 17 2023] he plans to publicly release thousands of hours of footage from the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol
  • 44,000 hours of sensitive January 6 footage (with a few exceptions)
  • Johnson said Friday that the committee is processing the footage to blur the faces of individuals “to avoid any persons from being targeted for retaliation of any kind”.

Rhetorical Questions

  • How soon will AI converge on 44,000 hours of Dec 37 footage?
  • How soon will AI audio deep fake enhancements take place?
  • How soon will AI Hallucinate Never Happened events?
  • How soon will AI Hallucinations become The Reality?
  • How long will blurred images remain blurred? (note: all blurred images were previous unblurred)

My SWAG is soon, very soon(tm) (1)

===

ht tps://www.theguardian. c om/us-news/2023/nov/17/mike-johnson-january-6-video-footage

1)

Def “Soon™”

  • “Soon™” does not imply any particular date, time, decade, century, or millennia in the past, present, and certainly not the future. “Soon” shall make no contract or warranty. “Soon” will arrive some day, does guarantee that “soon” will be here before the end of time. Maybe. Do not make plans based on “soon”; will not be liable for any misuse, use, or even casual glancing at “soon.”

Winter • November 18, 2023 2:04 PM

@JonKnowsNothing

I am on a medical charity program which requires annual renewal (soon).

I am sorry for you and wish you strength.

For those who want to go the root of the problem is here a fragment from 1971:
‘https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/nixon-and-ehrlichman-discuss-kaiser-permanente-in-1971/

Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”

President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]

Maybe this gives some food for understanding why the USA are where we find them.

JonKnowsNothing • November 18, 2023 2:50 PM

@Winter

re: Kaiser Non Profit is For Profit

Kaiser is not the only Non-Profit that works under the For-Profit motif. There are many health agencies across the USA that have “charity” as part of their Non-Profit requirement.

A recent strike at Kaiser in California disclosed that June YTD 2023 Kaiser profit was $ 3Billion USD. This is profit outside their other health care requirements.

There are several ways Kaiser makes a profit:

  • Under staffing. Do not hire adequate medical personnel. (see UK NHS)
    • Kaiser has a special arrangement with both the State of California and US Medicare to provide a subset of services.
      ** If you are 65+ or disabled you qualify for a subset of care called Senior Advantage. Many health insurance groups participate. Each group presents a smorgasbord of care options. You get to pick the one that has the most of what you want for the out-of-pocket costs you are willing to pay.
      ** Kaiser has special agreements to provide a smaller subset of care, focusing on the population cohort with the fewest health conditions. Senior Advantage is for the population cohort with increasing health conditions where Kaiser has a smaller subset of coverage.

In the Non-Profit Health Care Industry, the non-profit tax benefit is tied to a Charity Threshold: medical care provided at low or no cost (1). All hospitals and health care providers and pharmaceutical companies have these requirements: to provide no cost, low cost, no fee, no out of pocket for a small portion of their enrollees.

Not too long ago another OOPs happened when it was determined that a number of these agencies with REQUIRED Charity Thresholds managed to avoid that expense and dump those funds into their Profit column.

One of the consumer difficulties is that these actions are often protected from legal scrutiny because of other gating laws. In California mandated arbitration for Kaiser has a compensation cap of $250,000 USD. That is the most anyone can collect if the ruling goes in your favor. From those funds you have to pay for legal, medical, forensic, experts and present them in a court of arbitration.

From the Hunger Games:

  • May the odds be ever in your favor…

====

1) moi; it is not largesse, it is a legal requirement.

Similar to my pension. It is not largesse, I paid for it over my working life, it is an insurance policy that has matured. It is not an entitlement or handout; it was paid for.

JonKnowsNothing • November 18, 2023 3:02 PM

@Winter, All

re: Kaiser Non Profit is For Profit Tax Info

The Non-Profit status grants the agency a very favorable tax position. A no tax or low tax rate. This discounted taxable amount is supposed to offset the Required Charity provisions for the agency.

  • Reduced Tax Rate saving amount to be applied to their Charity Requirement
  • eg: If they save $100,000,000 USD in reduced taxes, they are supposed to spend some of that of it on charity medical care.

Charity Medical care is not largesse. It is paid for by US IRS non-collection of taxes due on the condition that those funds are used for low cost, no cost medical care. Those uncollected funds are a redirection of tax dollars generated by the For Profit aspects of the agency.

Any left over, unused Charity funds go into the Profit column.

You might see the motivation there…

lurker • November 18, 2023 4:47 PM

@ResearcherZero

Thanks for that Squid/github link.
re, “there is no workaround …”

I read that as there is no shortcut, you must upgrade or patch. As always, I rely on my upstream to do the right thing …

vas pup • November 18, 2023 5:11 PM

@Winter said “Come on, it’s her own fault. She shouldn’t have been wearing such a short skirt.”
I agree with your statement, but in ANY crime there are three components: perpetrator, victim and circumstances. Each is contributing to the probability of actual crime being committed. Victims behavior contributed substantially for crime occurrence. Sure, it is not excuse for perpetrator but for me definitely should be taking into consideration when sentencing because it is characterize offender level of danger to society [provoked or not]. By the same token you are not going to inner city in US after dark with golden Rolex on. You do have a right in both cases but you should behave in such way to be rather safe than sorry.

@subject you’ve commented: it were two videos on YouTube [by Scott Ritter – US former special operative- not Kremlin agent] which characterized personality you’ve protected.
YouTube immediately removed both. That is ‘free’ speech. Congress should watch it for sure before allocating any further funds.

JonKnowsNothing • November 18, 2023 5:43 PM

@vas pup, @Winter, All

re: there are three components: perpetrator, victim and circumstances

No

There is only one: perpetrator

The others obscure the base condition: the perpetrator chooses.

The perpetrator blames the other two conditions for their actions, but only the perpetrator’s actions create an incident.

  • see arguments about Free Will

What you are attempting to describe is what is now called entrapment or enticement. Where some agency instigates the crime: Go On! Do It!

iirc(badly) parable on enticement

A rich person left money, gold, jewelry on a table.

Day after day, the poor servant cleaned the table and did not take any of the items.

One day, the poor servant, took something.

The rich man demanded the poor servant be punished for stealing.

The wise judge said that the rich man was responsible for tempting the poor man over and over and for many days the poor man did not steal, yet the rich man continued to taunt and tempt the poor man.

Clive Robinson • November 18, 2023 7:20 PM

@ An Old Man, ALL,

Re : Altman getting pushed out the boat.

“Anyone knows anything more about the reasons for sacking of Altman?”

The most likely reason is corporate greed.

The argument of “not being candid” is one of those “We’ve got to make something up” excuses.

Have a look at where the money came from and how much of it and you might “get on the trail”.

When it was set up it was not supposed to be “for profit” but “for research and innovation”, recent changes suggest people want to feel profit in their pockets.

The thing is LLMs even augmented by ML is in reality not AI as you are being gulled into thinking. And there are signs that people are waking up to the fact it’s a smoke and mirrors or dog and pony show.

Outside of direct criminal activity like generating CSAM and other type of explicit and fraudulant material, the only two thing LLMs are apparently usefull at currently are,

1, Extracting Private and Personal information from users directly or by inferance (what Microsoft is doing).
2, Being used as a way to “arms length” responsability for prejudicial unlawful policy (what welfare sorces are upto like US Healthcare providers and Australian and UK Governments).

Which means that the Venture Capitalists who were hoping to “Make it big on the bubble” are not likely to get what they were hoping for.

Part of that is Mr Altman, has been a little too candid in what he’s been saying to politicians, the press and the public for their liking. And although he’s not killed the goose, those eggs are not comming out as 24 karat fairy gold.

I guess we will have to wait and see what the money men do next…

vas pup • November 18, 2023 7:38 PM

@Clive – not surprised – many moons ago I made post on this respected blog regarding Microsoft taking control over OpenAI.
Microsoft is like Midas in reverse. Midas touch anything and transfer it into gold. Microsoft by touching everything transfer it into crap or tool for surveillance like they did for Skype.

Clive Robinson • November 18, 2023 8:50 PM

@ Bruce, ALL,

Hot off the Press

People wonder why I don’t do “Social Media” well here’s one of many reasons,

The UK Gov is keeping secret files on critics to “black-ball” them and stoping them having a voice in places where it matters.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/18/shocking-scale-of-uk-governments-secret-files-on-critics-revealed

But to make it worse the Government some time ago pushed through rules on the BBC that supposedly enforced impartiality but actually gave a platform to loonies and those with very anti-social attitudes and behaviours.

Having found that favoured the Goverment and it’s far right, it went on as the article notes to push it onto Universities…

Worse they are trying to expand it to all “public speaking” venues / occasions.

Clive Robinson • November 18, 2023 9:15 PM

@ Bruce, ALL,

If you have BBC iPlayer access then you might be interested in what’s behind UK Passport tech and the history behind it,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001s8qd?at_mid=cby1b7LjEU&at_campaign=The_Secret_Genius_of_Modern_Life_Passport&at_medium=display_ad&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_origin=promo_box&at_audience_id=TV&at_product=iplayer&at_brand=m001f1tg&at_ptr_name=bbc&at_ptr_type=media&at_format=image&at_objective=consumption&at_link_title=The_Secret_Genius_of_Modern_Life_Passport&at_bbc_team=BBC

Clive Robinson • November 18, 2023 10:19 PM

@ lurker,

“I hope there’s not too much PII in that url for BBC…”

You never can tell for sure but, I looked through it and it appears to be mostly about the “frame” the link was in.

JonKnowsNothing • November 18, 2023 10:43 PM

@Clive, @An Old Man, @emily, ALL

Having survived and witnessed a number of Silicon Valley Bloodbaths, I would SWAG that it is not over yet.

Re-hiring rarely works out, however it is sure create another bloodbath.

Most folks just want their paycheck and to pay their rent-mortgage, which in SV is upwards of $3,000/month for a cheap-flop.

It’s a fight at the top of the food chain and everyone below that is collateral damage. Best you can do is take PTO until it is over and you either get to keep your job or get the email that they’ve boxed up your cube.

Such fights are rarely about what is published, until long after the event (if ever). It’s nearly always about money, lots of it, and who is going to get it. (1)

With investors like Thiel (backed by the CIA Investment Fund) and Musk, it’s not small snacks.

Since the reports are of a surprise hit, SWAG would suggest that something really obnoxious was going on and the info leaked. As others are leaving the company with the I’m Falling On My Sword statements, indicate that they were aware of it.

  • No one in SV is going to bail on multi-million dollar stock and stock option financial packages unless they have a better package.

** The monthly payment for a $10,000,000 mortgage (SV Oligarch House) is $68,217.63 over 30 years with a 7.25% interest rate.

The accounting thread is the shift from Non-Profit to Capped Profit to Full Profit.

Whenever there is a shift in the corporate structure, the stock classifications shift. You might be a founder with 20% of the original stock but after Round B by the VCs and redefinition and dilution of stock you end up with nothing.

===

ref: HP, Compaq, Deutsche Bank, HP heirs, Stock Proxy Fight. The WikiP versions are highly sanitized.

Clive Robinson • November 18, 2023 10:47 PM

@ emily’s post, An Old Man, ALL,

Re : Is he in or is he out, or are they just shaking it all about?

And yet another press view on the Sam Altman situation,

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/18/earthquake-at-chatgpt-developer-as-senior-staff-quit-after-sacking-of-boss-sam-altman

Oh one comment on the ARS Technica page about the other four directors that made me smile,

“I find it morbidly fascinating to watch how they are willing to publicly stab themselves to death like this. In other news, I have never eaten so much popcorn in the span of two days.”

Something tells me this story has got some legs on it so… time for another bowl me thinks[1] 😉

[1] Blaim Sherlock Holmes for this, he refered to some event as being “a two pipe problem” so a few of us here started talking about a “two bowl” of popcorn entertainment/event.

Winter • November 19, 2023 4:01 AM

Re: Sam Altman situation

‘https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/18/earthquake-at-chatgpt-developer-as-senior-staff-quit-after-sacking-of-boss-sam-altman

I like the last paragraph. It sums up nicely the extend of the stupidity of the decision to fire him:

Meanwhile, the French government appeared to sense an opportunity. The country’s digital minister, Jean-Noel Barrot, said Altman, “his team and their talents” would be “welcome in France if they want to”.

Anyhow, the article also hints to a history behind the decision:

Sam Altman, the recently sacked boss of OpenAI, the company behind the ChatGPT bot, was telling investors he planned to launch a new company before his shock departure, it was claimed.

If this is true (a big IF), then it is conceivable that there were strong differences of opinion within the leadership of OpenAI. Then Sam talking to investors to start a new company would be seen as “treason” by the Leadership/Owners who would then punish their underling/serf for this “treason”. The rest is then a lesson in “who is the boss”.

Reminds me about the reentrance of Steve Jobs at Apple.

&ers • November 19, 2023 5:58 AM

@ALL those in US.

Thay caught “Buratino”

hxxps://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/14/dubinsky-trump-giuliani-arrest-ukraine/

Clive Robinson • November 19, 2023 6:20 AM

@ Winter,

Re: Sam Altman situation and “who is the boss”.

“Reminds me about the reentrance of Steve Jobs at Apple.”

There are essentially four groups who decide “who is the boss”,

1, Customers
2, Workers
3, Investors
4, Directors

Any one group if sufficiently motivated can bring a leader down, but generally it takes atleast benign support from all four to keep the boss in place.

One of the downsides of modern / neo-con managment in the US is that they disregard the workers, and it’s getting worse. Eventually this forces workers to form into groups for self protection and as the UK found back in the 1970’s they can be a significant force to be negotiated with.

Not doing so as the US has found in it’s earlier history leads to violence (usually instigated by managment).

Thus the classic “Might is Right” nonsense kicks in and one to two generations later the “Social Landscape” has changed.

On a larger scale of politics such events are called “Civil War” and when ever this sort of trouble arises in any organisation large or small you find two things,

1, A hierarchical control structure
2, The wrong people rise up it.

It’s argued by some that a hierarchical control structure is the only way to have stability and progress in organisations.

Yet a study of history shows that such control structures are extraordinarily unstable and dangerous. In that they they have at almost every step of the way, unclear till you cross them tipping points that quickly spiral downward into trouble in an often self reinforcing way and everything flys appart.

The main reason for the self reinforcing nature of the disaster is the mentality of those that have rissen up the hierarchical control structure. They tend to forget what their actual function is and thus go an aberant way and start doubling down when challenged.

Part of this is the nonsense myth of “The strong man” that we see cultivated more and more currently and how it brings tremendous harms.

It actually starts because people forget they have “Social Responsibilities” thus do not apply the balance required in all control structures and instability results and disaster follows.

But as was seen with the UK “Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament”(CND) another danger is lack of transparancy and what gets seen as behind doors double dealing. Secrecy is not a poison but like a hypodermic needle it can easily be a conduit for it.

CND survived all the attempts to subvert it by the UK authorities and as we now know there were many of them, because of it’s strictest rule of “Everything must be done in full view of everyone”.

Whilst that level of transparancy is good inside an organisation it also needs the ability for all to be heard as well.

This gets derieded by some as “Paralysis by Analysis” or similar often by those with a certain mentality that is extrodinarily wastefull of resources etc.

My father pointed out to me when I was young that there was no point running anywhere untill you knew where you were and where you were going to. Because you quickly run out of energy as well as getting lost, neither of which tend to happy outcomes.

But along with the nonsense myth of the strong man, are to others,

1, Gaining an edge.
2, Don’t leave money on the table.

Both are actually bad ideas for the reasons my father identified.

The first is a “combat mind set” and once you get into it, it spirals out of control. Yes there are advantages to OODA loop[1] “in combat” but as can be easily seen “combat” generally achives little and destroys a lot in the process. The biggest casualty of such conflict being what is “lost opportunity cost”.

Combat is almost always initiated by a narcissist with no empathy or morals, whilst they can be superficially charming, especially from a distance, you realy do not want to be close to them or mindlessly follow their rhetoric, because history shows that they rarely provide stability or useful growth. They end up destructively building Empires that collapse in short order.

The second is a rather silly mantra because it engenders not investment for growth but destruction for profit. I’ve been into the details of this in the past and the two primary results of it are instability and catastrophic collapse.

For all his alledged strong points Sam Altman is someone who’s mental outlook is not one that is going to egender stability and the probability is things are not going to end well.

Similar can be said of other members of the board of the non-profit.

It waits to be seen how this plays out but the odds are against it being “well”, though it may get “glossed up” as that for various reasons.

[1] The “Observe, Orient, Decide, act”(OODA) loop –or spiral– is based on observations about “Combat Piloting” or “Dog Fighting” on how to “Kill your oponent First and Fast” thus is a limited utility resource destroying strategy. Put forward by USAF Colonel John Boyd for use where it is appropriate, others have unfortunately applied it to other areas of life where “Do or Die” and “Winner takes all” are not appropriate.

Winter • November 19, 2023 7:21 AM

@Clive

There are essentially four groups who decide “who is the boss”,

Power is the willingness of others to do your bidding. The “boss” in a company or institution is the person whose commands are followed. That is not always the person who has “boss” as their function.

Anecdote:
I remember that in the 1980s, the Amsterdam municipal public transport services (GVB) were effectively run by a mechanic who worked in the maintenance garage. He was the local leader of a Communist Union that had pretty much all of the workers as a member. Multiple changes in management who attempted to break this hold of the union failed and ended with a new manager being installed.

Clive Robinson • November 19, 2023 10:03 AM

@ Bruce, ALL,

“EU AI lawmaking move.”

“France, Germany and Italy have reached an agreement on how artificial intelligence should be regulated, according to a joint paper seen by Reuters, which is expected to accelerate negotiations at the European level.

The three governments support commitments that are voluntary, but binding on small and large AI providers in the European Union that sign up to them.”

https://www.reuters.com/technology/germany-france-italy-reach-agreement-future-ai-regulation-2023-11-18/

The information is sketchy, but it shows the politicos and their advisors realy are not upto speed. Because it’s a typical “do nothing” arm waved “Are you with us” type response as a front runner for a “kick into the long grass”.

In short it’s a

“We think we should be doing something, but we have not a clue what to do!”

Not what is needed because it’s going to allow the “Mega Corps” to slide under the wire, whilst every one else will get caught in the net behind them. In effect as the draw bridge gets lifted the Silicon Valley Corps will have formed a nice little cartel and the legislation will keep others out.

It’s the same sort of nonsense that alowed the mess Uber created, only it will be a lot worse and take longer to clear up if ever, once it’s alowed and the Likes of Microsoft will surveill you with it and Palantir will “long arm” seriously right-wing society-harming activities without oversight or responsability.

JonKnowsNothing • November 19, 2023 11:08 AM

@All

re: Beached Whale Pods v Navy Sonar

An interesting tidbit showed up on MSM about an encounter between the Australian Navy and the Chinese Navy both patrolling the seas around Japan.

HAIL Warning

In the story the AU ship got it’s propellers tangled in fishing gear (1). A China ship approached and message was sent about the disabled propeller. When the China ship got near they activated their sonar. AU claims the divers working to free the propeller were injured by the sonar.

The modern problem of full pods of whales beaching themselves is a global occurrence. The beaching of sick, injured or dead whales is the norm. Having pods of 20-100 whales beaching themselves is not normal behavior. Sometimes the whales can be re-floated on high tide and swim on, however there are occasions where the whale will re-beach, indicating something is Not Right With The Whale.

One very strong suspect is Navy Sonar, especially the super strong sonar pulses that can travel underwater across the Atlantic and Pacific. The US Navy consistently claims there is no harm from these super strong sonar pulses. However, within days or weeks of known use, a massive beaching event will occur within the sonar pulse area. The US Navy claims that these massive beaching events are unrelated to their use of sonar.

Evidently, Navy sonar is not all that benign

  • Divers exposed to high levels of underwater sound can suffer from dizziness, hearing damage or injuries to other organs, depending on the frequency and intensity of the sound

Sonar as ultra-sound is used in medical settings both as imaging and treatment modality. Imaging is quite a common use. A strong pulsing narrow targeted beam setting can be used to treat kidney stones by breaking up large stones into small stones that can pass through the urinary tract and avoid surgical intervention. However, even controlled beam ultra-sound shock can damage internal organs and can lead to rare fatalities.

Controlled medical devices are a fraction of the intensity of Navy sonar.

It should be noted that the increasing use of various ground and air imaging techniques may contain wide or narrow beam deployment and often use a different method of beam creation and dispersion.

===

HAIL Warning

ht tps://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/18/australian-naval-divers-injured-after-being-subjected-to-chinese-warships-sonar-pulses

  • [AU ship] when fishing nets became entangled around its propellers
  • [AU ship] The ship stopped so naval divers could clear the nets
  • [China ship] acknowledged the message of disabled engine, but came even closer, and was soon after detected operating its hull-mounted sonar
  • [AU ship] The divers, who were assessed after they surfaced, sustained minor injuries likely because they were subjected to the sonar pulses

1) Tangling propellers is a common method to disable ships; see Sea Shepard vs Japan Whaling Fleet. Sometimes there isn’t anything actually blocking the propellers just a reason for heaving to (stop).

JonKnowsNothing • November 19, 2023 1:24 PM

@Clive, All

HAIL Warning

An odd piece in MSM about the US Base on Diego Garcia.

fyi Diego Garcia aka Chagos Island aka BIOT (British Indian Ocean Territory) aka CIA Rendition Base aka (probable) CIA Black Site Torture Site aka CIA Black Site Transfer & Holding Site aka USA & LEA Monitoring Site for Middle East Communications (no warrants needed)

Per the report there are several contractors working for the US Military (and for other entities) on the island. They use migrant labor from other countries. There was a tiff over minimum wages paid (low) with the contractors. All but one of them agreed to pay the minimum wage ($7.25 (£5.98)). However KBR, the contractor in the article, refused to pay the (low) minimum wage. There is also wage theft and forced-coerced labor aspects.

  • KBR also known as Kellogg Brown & Root, is the main contractor on the military base, located in the Chagos Islands
  • KBR a former subsidiary of oil services giant Halliburton, which was run for five years by Dick Cheney before he became US vice-president
  • KBR has more than 1,000 migrant workers contracted to work for them on Diego Garcia
  • KBR is a key Pentagon contractor that helped build Guantánamo Bay in Cuba

The USA-UK base on Diego Garcia is a strategic part of the CIA’s international programs. It is a very secret and well guarded military operation. It has taken decades and decades to uncover what little we know about the activities on Diego Garcia. It was so important that the UK displaced and forceably removed the inhabitants of Chagos and relocated them to the UK. It took decades of legal actions, with continuous blocks by the UK, USA and all LEAs involved to prevent the return of their lands and the right to return to their home. After winning the right to return in law, the UK continued to prevent their return. Currently the UK established a Marine Protection Zone, one of the fastest ever created zones to protect marine environment as justification of No Return.

So, the interesting thing is this:

  • Why does the USA need 1,000 civilian servants for the Super Secret US Military Operation on Diego Garcia?

  • What could they be building with 1,000 civilian workers?

  • How many dog kennels can 1,000 civilian workers assemble per hour/day/week/year?

===

ht tps://www.theguardian .c o m /us-news/2023/nov/19/family-still-wait-for-return-of-migrant-workers-body-after-unexplained-death-on-uk-us-military-base

  • Family still wait for return of migrant worker’s body after unexplained death on UK-US military base

  • Relatives allege American contractor on island of Diego Garcia failed to get proper medical help for 33-year-old Saddam Ali

  • claims after the unexpected death on Oct 18 2023, the body remains on Diego Garcia

ht tps://en.wikipedia. o r g/wiki/Chagos_island

ht tps://en.wikipedia .or g/wiki/British_Indian_Ocean_Territory

ht tps://en.wikipedi a.o rg/wiki/Diego_Garcia

ht tp s://en.wikipedia . org/wiki/Chagos_Archipelago_sovereignty_dispute

h ttp s://en.wikiped ia.o rg/wiki/Depopulation_of_Chagossians_from_the_Chagos_Archipelago

h tt ps://en.wikipedi a. org/wiki/Chagos_Marine_Protected_Area

vas pup • November 19, 2023 7:36 PM

The Russians snitching on colleagues and strangers
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67427422

What about snitching here? At least Russian snitches did it on their own initiative.

Snitching as wide spreading/total regardless of motive, recruiting by LEAs or not just undermine trust in society as a base for normal relationship. Do you remember when tycoon in US was recruited as informant?

During Stalin’s era and in Nazi Germany, Eastern Germany snitching was wide spread as norm of everyday life. That just not save those regime from collapse.

There is no real oversight of such activity neither from courts nor from legislation.

Mike D. • November 19, 2023 9:02 PM

Just wondering what folks here think about FIPS 140-3. It’s getting forced on us at work and folks are telling me that ED25519 is untrusted while ECDSA and RSA are. (Also that an OS has to have a FIPS certification to be trusted.)

JonKnowsNothing • November 19, 2023 11:04 PM

@vas pup, All

re: Exactly what does one mean by “snitching”?

Consider the use, definition and connotation of the word “snitching”. It has a long history of use and long history of idiomatic use. However there is an “intented negative connotation” with the use of the word.

So what do you mean by “snitching”. Generally it means telling authorities about things, or actions that a person has learned about but that the people proposing the action do not want the authorities to know.

The counterpart is “whistle blowing”. Generally the whistle blower informs authorities about activities and things that they have knowledge of but that the people doing these activities do not want others to know about. It also implies that the problems disclosed are at least 1 or 2 levels of control above the whistle blower and those 1 or 2 levels have ignored the problem.

One person’s snitch is another person’s whistle blower.

Imagine:

A prominent very public corporation, making a controversial software program that is very popular but also has a significant error rate when responding to input queries.

A small group of high level executives have secretly been planning to roll a new independent company that does not include all the current senior management and current board of directors.

The small group plans to raid the talent pool of the current company and has been using existing company contacts, connections and leverage to quietly plan their split off.

They discretely make proposals to several high level and mid level staff to leave their current company and move to the new enterprise once it is officially launched.

* One person accepts the new offer and quietly continues or pretends to continue working on their existing project but spending more time doing plausible background work for the new company yet passing off the research as part of their current assignment.

* More people accept the secret offers.

* An offer is made to one person who is appalled at the deceit and the subterfuge in planning to extract current corporation assets (people, payroll, intellectual property) without telling senior management and given that the secret plan is driven by the CEO, without telling the board of directors.

Will you be a snitch or a whistle blower?

The scenario is completely imaginary of course…

lurker • November 20, 2023 12:17 AM

Optus Australia CEO resigns after last year’s data breach and last week’s network outage:

The chief executive of Optus’s Singaporean parent company thanked her for her hard work during a “challenging period” – pointing out she had improved financial performance despite being appointed at the beginning of the pandemic.

“improved financial performance”? But the money that wasn’t left on the table doesn’t seem to have gone to security, or resilience …

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67470796

JonKnowsNothing • November 20, 2023 4:01 AM

@lurker, All

re: Deferred Maintenance

The marginal money taken off the table is the amount needed for maintenance. Maintenance not done in a “timely manner” is called deferred maintenance.

It might not be much of a stretch to say that deferred maintenance is a global, social, and personal problem because the costs involved are substantial and it’s much easier to let things slide until something absolutely needs to be done or some aspect of the system has collapsed.

It’s everywhere.

The true cost of an item, over time, is the interest compounded value of the original item aka the full replacement cost. The timing of the full replacement can be lengthened by doing smaller portions but these portions only delay the full replacement and are not a substitute for it.

There are insurance calculations for replacement time tables, there are construction statistics on the replacement, there are engineering logs on the time to replacement. In every open contract system, somewhere there is a table, book, manual detailing how long an aspect should last. It’s all pretty well documented.

  • highways, roads, streets etc. There is an initial build cost. At some juncture of time the road will need a full replacement. The replacement time varies by the type of road: dirt, gravel, asphalt, concrete. There is period of maintenance: pot hole repairs, resealing, cleaning (prevents water and ice heave).
  • buildings, houses, apartments, office high rises all have details on how often things need repair or replacement. Painting, drapes, window glass seals, door frames, walls, roof all need attention.

So, if something costs $X to purchase and the lifetime is N years if you do no maintenance, at the end of N years, the maintenance free period is NIL. If you do some maintenance every year, you might extend that to N+Y years but at the end you will need a new or replaced item.

To get the maximum use you need to do the N+Y expenditures. But if you plan on selling out prior to N+Y time, why bother? Let the next owner deal with it.

  • eg Cars. Doing regular maintenance of oil changes, tire rotation, replacing wind screen wipers blades extends the useful life of the car. At some point it becomes a junker and ends up somewhere else were junkers can get repaired at a profit-price point, and you end up buying a new (something). (1)

In big ticket corporate and government projects, deferred maintenance is left to the next political election. Large buildings do not get more than the minimum needed. Decay, rot, mold, crumbling stone, brick, mortar and concrete are common.

It’s why the infrastructure is failing. The current view is We Will Rebuild It Later (aka Make Am Great Ag), except later only comes when a structural failure happens: power line fires wipe out towns, urban water system fail with polluted water or no water at all, a bridge collapses into a river, train derailments and train car collisions from faulty crossing signals, and a freeway overpass crumbles from a fire beneath the overpass which generated intense heat, damaging the structure.

Deferred Maintenance is treated similar to Deferred Pension Contributions. Corporations are allowed to book the maintenance and pension costs but are not required to fully fund them. The only amount that is funded is the bare minimum.

  • The bridge might collapse before they have to fix the metal fatigued connections.

  • The pensioner might die before they can collect their stipend.

In both cases the unspent amounts roll right into the profit column.

It pays not to fix stuff and you can make it someone else’s problem.

===

1)
ht tps://arstechnica.c om/cars/2023/11/the-reincarnation-of-totalled-teslas-in-ukraine/

  • The reincarnation of totaled Teslas—in Ukraine

  • Cars deemed unfixable in North America are resurrected in Eastern Europe.

note: In the USA these are called “salvage cars” and their repair and return to the highways is common. They can be purchased for a fraction of new vehicles. Salvage cars do not have the same structural or safety profiles of new cars. There has been many debates about prohibiting salvage cars from returning to the market. Or at least, informing the buyer that the car is not structurally sound. The demand for cheaper transportation out weights the lack of working safety features.

Clive Robinson • November 20, 2023 6:10 AM

@ ALL,

“Round three of OpenAI and Mr Altman advances.”

Posted by BBC from ~10:00 UTC,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67470876

“Microsoft chief executive Satya Nadella wrote on X, formerly Twitter, that Mr Altman would be joining Microsoft to lead “a new advanced AI research team”.

Meanwhile, ex-Twitch CEO Emmett Shear will become OpenAI’s new boss.
Mr Shear confirmed that news on X.”

So a “new research team” will need to be staffed… There is nothing to stop Microsoft “open posting jobs” and if OpenAI staff have resigned or feel they’ve been forced out, then in theory there is nothing to stop them going to Microsoft…

But will they… As I understand it the “gang of four” OpenAI board are not alowed any equity in the non-profit. However the subsidiary company which Microsoft invested in is a different story… Some say there is 90billion of share value up for grabs but nobody has realy said by whom. We know a VC is involved and they will want that bubble to grow not shrink.

As others have noted, it’s probable that the gang of four are in effect lying about Mr Altman for reasons that are possibly financial self enrichment.

Thus I expect more about either the money or control side will come out over the next short while.

But the IP side might also be a bone of contention, because as a founding member of OpenAI Mr Altman probably wrote favourable terms in his own contract. Whilst we don’t know how much of the IP originated from Mr Altman if a legal bun fight starts we might well find out.

emily’s post • November 20, 2023 6:43 AM

@ JonKnowsNothing

It’s everywhere.

Yet the most successful large scale social and governmental organization of all time, the Roman Republic (SPQR™) and later Empire did not do it this way. Estimated lifetime (
for many items with routine maintenance 2000 yrs + . [1]

There must be an engineering discipline that designs things so naturally wearing parts that must wear are economical to repair.

  1. For those that can get along in Italian, or in auto-CC, see Scripta Manent

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCdSELFnsKyXHwDvpjhOeegw

Clive Robinson • November 20, 2023 6:54 AM

@ ALL,

Time to dunp OpenAI ChatGPT?

As the third round in the OpenAI “gang of four” board and Sam Altman continues, others are saying the product “Ain’t great and it’s getting dumber”…

Thus Computer World has posited the statement,

“It’s time to break the ChatGPT habit”

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3703058/it-s-time-to-break-the-chatgpt-habit.html

“OpenAI’s ChatGPT was the first seriously popular generative AI tool, but it was probably not the best. It’s time to widen your AI horizons.”

And thus sounds the clang of “For whom the bell tolls” with,

‘[A] controversial new report from Stanford and UC Berkeley suggests that for some uses, ChatGPT is actually getting “dumber.”’

After all with so many better alternatives, “Why stick with what looks like a runner who’s hit the wall and has no second wind?”

Which is not what the profit hungry VC’s after their big fat slice of 90billion are going to want to hear.

PaulBart • November 20, 2023 9:58 AM

@JonKnowsNothing

“In big ticket corporate and government projects, deferred maintenance is left to the next political election. Large buildings do not get more than the minimum needed. Decay, rot, mold, crumbling stone, brick, mortar and concrete are common.”

This is not true in high trust low corruption societies.
One prerequisite of high trust society is ethnic and cultural homogeneity. Good luck Western nations.

JonKnowsNothing • November 20, 2023 10:01 AM

@Clive, All

re: There is nothing to stop Microsoft “open posting jobs” and if OpenAI staff have resigned or feel they’ve been forced out, then in theory there is nothing to stop them going to Microsoft…

(USA) Actually there is.

It’s a Non Compete clause in nearly every employment contract in the USA. It’s signed when you join the firm. It’s part of the many legal disclosures you get when you start working for a largish firm.

Senior or Key persons have very strict conditions tied to their Non Compete clauses. A good number of Non Compete clauses state a specific time delimiter: 5 years, 10 years.

SWAG There will be a long long drawn out legal suit to prevent M$ or anyone else from employing former OpenAI personnel for developing AI anything.

SWAG There will also be cross lawsuits over any intellectual property or physical items developed before or during the embargo period. M$ is an investor in OpenAI and is not an “arms length” employer and will have a hard time proving any “impartiality” or “independent development” in court.

iirc(badly) In a previous similar case, the person at the center of the bickering, got a long paid-for vacation of several years before they could do any work at all for their new employer.

It’s more of a billionaire bailout gesture for unemployed billionaires.

  • Do you really think Palantir and Theil were “caught by surprise” with this move?

Not me either.

Perhaps M$ is easier for the CIA to manipulate. All it takes is suitcases full of colored paper. Everyone likes presents.

JonKnowsNothing • November 20, 2023 10:29 AM

@emily, All

re: large scale social and governmental organization of all time, the Roman Republic

Modern USA homes are built with a 45-50yr life expectancy. With proper maintenance and appropriate retrofitting, they can last 150yrs or more. This is for “stick built” homes aka 2×4 wood studs and wood rafters.

In Europe and other countries, stone was the building material of choice. It lasts a long time and if properly laid and mortared lasts centuries. However, not all the building can be made of stone: roofs and interior wall channels (roman heating).

There are stone buildings still in great condition with wonderful maintenance and there are stone buildings in ruins, walls collapsed with basem-ents filled with rubble. We call them tourist attractions or archaeology sites.

When the Roman Emperors wanted to build something grand, they often tore down what was in the way, and reused the material; same as we do today. When they needed money for the project there was always a wealthy nobleman who could foot the bill.

In the USA, ~1950 builders calculated it was cheaper, faster to build and quicker to sell houses that lasted 50yrs than ones that last 300 years. Perhaps it is short sighted.

There is another aspect: California and all of the Americas are lands of earthquakes. I can guarantee you will not want to be under a highway overpass during an earthquake and watch the thing swaying above you. Even parts of the USA that are not normally considered earthquake zones can have devastating earthquakes (1).

Earthquakes do not stop countries from building with stone and brick. When an event happens the buildings collapse. In the USA liability laws make this a very unattractive outcome for a Development Corporation.

US building codes define how structures can be made and how they must be engineered. Enforcement is a tetchy topic but the code requirements are pretty straight forward.

===

1) ht tps://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/New_Madrid_earthquake

  • The 1811–1812 New Madrid earthquakes were a series of intense intraplate earthquakes beginning with an initial earthquake of moment magnitude 7.2–8.2 on December 16, 1811, followed by a moment magnitude 7.4 aftershock on the same day. Two additional earthquakes of similar magnitude followed in January and February 1812. They remain the most powerful earthquakes to hit the contiguous United States east of the Rocky Mountains in recorded history.
  • named for the Mississippi River town of New Madrid, then part of the Louisiana Territory and now within the U.S. state of Missouri.

note: some pronounce it “Mad Rid”

Clive Robinson • November 20, 2023 10:34 AM

@ ALL,

“Round three of OpenAI and Mr Altman advances further.”

Posted by BBC from ~14:40 UTC,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67470876

“OpenAI staff demand board resign over Sam Altman sacking”

For the board to openly loose the confidence of the staff/workers such that they say so both publicly and in writing is very bad news (As I discussed with @Winter a little over a day ago[1]).

It’s in effect as bad as having a major investor do the same.

And it appears to be having a not unexpected result, in that the gang of four OpenAI non-profit board appear to be fracturing already,

“Mr Sutskever has signed the letter calling for the board – on which he sits – to be dismissed.”

But perhaps of interest is the new CEO Mr Emmett Shear taking to Xwitter and aluding to the reason the board took it’s ill advised action,

“The board did *not* remove Sam over any specific disagreement on safety, their reasoning was completely different from that. I’m not crazy enough to take this job without board support for commercializing our awesome models”

Note the use of the “C-Word” in there, this makes it sound very much like an equity/finance issue over that 90billion USD valuation that got precipitated into very injudicious behaviour by the gang of four’s inexperience, greed, or both.

As Dan Ives of investment firm Wedbush Securities observes with some rather choice words of condemnation, Microsoft has ended up being not just strengthened and the OpenAI board look well…

“They were “at the kid’s poker table and thought they won until Nadella and Microsoft took this all over in a World Series of Poker move for the ages”.

“The embarrassing circus show over the weekend at OpenAI was finally taken over by the adults in the room.”

To which you can only say “Ouch”.

This is all begining to look like one of those slow motion videos of a bullet hiting an Apple or similar and fragmenting into the “red mist”…

Time to make another bowl of popcorn, I think I’d better make it a double 😉

[1] See,

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2023/11/friday-squid-blogging-unpatched-vulnerabilities-in-the-squid-caching-proxy.html/#comment-428921

Where I predicted this might happen. I identified the four groups who decide “who is the boss” or more importantly is not…

JonKnowsNothing • November 20, 2023 10:57 AM

@PaulBart, All

re: high trust low corruption societies

Funds reallocation is not “corruption”, it is permitted by legal definition and taxation laws.

The US Congress is in charge of taxation rules, and rules on average change every 18 months. Some stuff goes out and other stuff comes in. It’s part of the Net Zero Change to government funding agreed by Congress.

It’s a lot of hocus pocus and good for public speaking events to say otherwise, but the income tax stream to government coffers must be equal to or greater than prior year(s) adjusted for inflation.

It’s not just the USA, all governments do it.

While it is simple to say: Remove the tax law that allows X, in practice that X is highly protected by the people who benefit most from X.

There have been laws in the past that did prevent this type of redistribution.

Corporations had to Fully Fund all pension requirements. They were not allowed to “borrow the money” for their internal operations. That money belonged to the pension fund. In 1970s Libertarian and NeoCon and Illiberal economic policies took hold and Corporations made very persuasive arguments that they should only fund a portion and they could use the balance for corporate operations: Stock Dividends, Stock Buy Backs. Their argument hinged on the Corporation fully funding any short falls: bankruptcy laws fixed that for them.

One of the hallmarks of such redirections is to use Highly Charged Words, Verbs and Nouns to describe it. Anything with the wicked S* or C* names can sunk by the very people who get shorted.

  • BREXIT: Dominic Cummings created the campaign for “an extra £350m to be spent on the NHS every week from diverted EU spending”.

It all seemed a grand idea. Of course, it was just a poor magic trick.

Accounting isn’t a function of trust. It’s a function of addition and subtraction.

JonKnowsNothing • November 20, 2023 11:16 AM

@Clive, All

re: “OpenAI staff demand …”

There will be a series of bloodbaths, some will be publicly executed and some will be quietly done.

The “staff” version will be done quietly. Even staff that is vocally supportive of a particular stance or project or aspect can find themselves on the unemployment line later.

Many states in the USA, including California have At Will Employment laws. You do not need to give a reason to leave a job. Your employer does not need to give a reason to fire you. There are constraints by law, and by contract; Corporations are well versed in threading that needle.

There will be lots of popcorn in the interim.

===

htt ps://en.wikipedi a.o rg/wiki/At_will

  • In United States labor law, at-will employment is an employer’s ability to dismiss an employee for any reason (that is, without having to establish “just cause” for termination), and without warning,[1] as long as the reason is not illegal (e.g. firing because of the employee’s gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, or disability status). When an employee is acknowledged as being hired “at will”, courts deny the employee any claim for loss resulting from the dismissal. The rule is justified by its proponents on the basis that an employee may be similarly entitled to leave their job without reason or warning.

In the USA there is no corporate implied responsibility to the employee. Legal limitations are defined by various “vesting periods”; the time it takes to have legal claim on pension funds accrued in your name, stock options, terms of stock buy backs and stock sales.

Other than these limited benefits every employed person in the USA is On Their Own. We do not have Grace and Favor Homes.

ht tps://en.wikipedia.o rg/wiki/Grace_and_favor

  • A grace-and-favour home is a residential property owned by a monarch by virtue of his or her position as head of state and leased, often rent-free, to persons as part of an employment package or in gratitude for past services rendered.

lurker • November 20, 2023 12:05 PM

@Clive Robinson, All

The first announced interim CEO at OpenAI (also a board member) didn’t last long. Was she sniffed out as a musk plant?

Winter • November 20, 2023 1:04 PM

Re: OpenAI meltdown

Microsoft emerges victorious from OpenAI meltdown with Sam Altman leading its new AI research team
‘https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/microsoft-emerges-victorious-from-openai-meltdown-with-sam-altman-leading-its-new-ai-research-team/ar-AA1keLhu

It’s a good thing for Microsoft that Silicon Valley doesn’t believe in non-competes.

MS wins, one way or another.

Winter • November 20, 2023 1:17 PM

@JonKnowsNothing

In Europe and other countries, stone was the building material of choice.

Stone does not burn as well as wood. Eventually, municipalities decided having your houses and inhabitants wiped out every few decades or so is not sustainable.

It lasts a long time and if properly laid and mortared lasts centuries.

I have worked for years in a building that was over 4 centuries old. It had been reworked, but the original wooden piles on which the foundation rests were still there, as were some/most of the walls.

The building was one of hundreds from that period in the centre of Amsterdam.

JonKnowsNothing • November 20, 2023 5:01 PM

@emily, @Winter, All

There are lots of stone buildings that have endured centuries. It’s not too practical to build them for refugee camps, homeless housing (aka tents), low cost housing (RVs, THOW, PMRV).

Pyramids in the new world and old world have lasted thousands of years. The cities are gone or transformed over that period.

It maybe that stone structures can be better engineered to withstand earthquakes. That’s a tricky bit because the type of quake determines where the sheer forces intersect with collapsible material and soil liquification.

It’s all part of our collective belief that things we consider to be permanent are not so: Fire, Flood, Earthquake, Tornado, Hurricane, Typhoon, Avalanche, Climate Change.

There is a TV series on streaming media English Titled: The Unknown Saint. It’s a dour comedy riff on The 12 Chairs. The landscape and village construction is far from western modern building standards.

It’s a reminder that you build with what you have, not with what you want. In the USA we have lots and lots of similar buildings; the Oligarchs do not live in them.

===

ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unknown_Saint

ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_12_Chairs

vas pup • November 20, 2023 7:00 PM

@JonKnowsNothing thank you for input on snitching. I like your post even not always agree with your point. I respect you do have your own opinion.

Whistleblower is kind of insider in organization and when working for any level of government in US it is your duty and you do informed when hiring to report any fraud, unlawful activity, abuse and so on. There are laws that protect you doing this and there is real life and your readiness to follow all steps.

Snitch is recruited by LEAs to snitch on close friends, family members, boyfriend/girlfriend. They do offer [as God Father did] which could be refused: they got some kind of dirt on you and then trade their ‘silence’ for snitch ‘twitting’.

Mass snitching practice undermined trust in society. BUT I do appreciate undercover officer activity who is doing his/her job risking life being inside criminal community to prevent and fight REAL crimes not political opponents.

vas pup • November 20, 2023 7:09 PM

How clocks have shaped our world
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20231117-how-clocks-and-watches-have-shaped-civilisation

“Now we are in a new phase again. Technology has overtaken even the quartz watch. First mobile phones and then smartwatches have become the main tools for our daily timekeeping. But the Apple Watch, for example, is not only a timepiece accurate to within 50 milliseconds, but a phone, internet browser, email provider, car key and fitness tracker, and can even offer ECG and oxygen-level readings – multiple technologies contained in one small package.

Smartwatches are no longer just a way of keeping track of time, but are a communication tool and becoming a primary source of information. We can pay for our morning coffee with them and keep tabs on our health. Exactly what impact this change in time-keeping technology will have on our lives is still too early to tell, but it is already transforming the way we interact with the world around us.”

For blog’s subject: disable clock/watch for ticking bomb scenario required deep professional knowledge how time keeping device is working and how it should be safely disabled.

More interesting information in the article.

vas pup • November 20, 2023 7:30 PM

@ALL on Altman.
Until you are owner and have blocking number of stocks 25% +1 [and that usually how companies operate] you could share the destiny of Mr. Altman when outsiders take control of your company whatever your real intellectual contribution is.

There is always dilemma – go public through IPO, got big cash inflow and one day lost control or remain private but keep total control and be safe of such surprises[see above].Cost-benefit [rather risk-benefit]analysis should be done carefully for such decision.

As I just recall many-many years ago application programmer working for big corporation imbedded time bomb into payroll application so when he is removed from payroll by management time bomb activated and bring havoc to the whole data processing.

Clive Robinson • November 20, 2023 8:09 PM

@ ALL,

“And the band played on…”

Can 743 out of 770 engine room rats be wrong?

Is a question I’m sure a lot are going to be asking over the next few hours,

“OpenAI staff demand board resign over Sam Altman sacking”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67470876

“Evan Morikawa, an engagement manager at OpenAI, posted on X – formerly Twitter – that 743 of the company’s 770 workers had put their names to the letter.”

That’s over 96% of staff saying “get ye hence” to the “gang of four” board…

With such a high number of staff publicly saying “no confidence” in “the gang of four”, and one of the gang very publically offering atrician and siding with the workers…

“One of the notable people to sign the letter is OpenAI’s chief scientist, Ilya Sutskever – despite being a member of the board which now finds itself under fire.”

As one munches popcorn on the side lines, you can not help but wonder, in a whimsical sort of way, how sales of pitchforks, lengths of rope, and flaming brand torches are going on a certain well known express delivery online sales organisation. I’ve been told by a lady friend who knows about such things, that “hemp neckties are never a good fashion statment”.

As for the new CEO spot the “I-Word” in,

“ex-Twitch CEO Emmett Shear will become OpenAI’s new interim boss.”

That is not what you would call a resounding vote of support from the public gallery…

But apparently they also think Microsoft are “holding open” the gang plank for the workers to change ship,

“They also state that Microsoft, the biggest investor in OpenAI, has assured them that there are jobs for all OpenAI staff if they want to join the company.”

Is Microsoft, effectively saving it’s self 70Billion and in effect taking over OpenAI’s “real assets” –it’s staff and their knowledge– for next to nothing?

And in the process leaving what’s left of OpenAI for the carrion crows and the winds of fate to pick over?

The answer might be had with knowledge about Sam Altman’s “New Chip” plans, which would and should scare investors in Nvidia and other Tech stocks if not the power generation industry as well…

Put simply AI LLM’s need billions of dollars of high end very power thirsty computer chips, and these are the same sort used in some crypto-coin “mining rigs”. Thus Nvidia has slid comfortably over the death of Web3 “Non Fungible Tokens”(NFTs) as well as from “crypto-coin mining rigs” to “knowledge mining rigs” just as the former are sliding down hill as energy bills exceed expected coin value.

But we know from just looking around us that AGI does not need hundreds of megawatt hours of energy just “three square a day”.

That is, the current LLM model is obviously wrong and as I’ve previously mentioned efficient “Bio Neural Networks”(BNNs) do not work the same way as the highly inefficient ‘Digital Neural Networks”(DNNs). Worse by design DNNs have very real “stability” and “sensitivity” issues as the integer word size used in the “Multiply and Add” function of each digital neuron input is way way to small for DNNs used in LLMs currently so further expansion down that cul-de-sac is probably not going to happen…

Thus a “new chip” if real has the potential to be a very real “disruptive technology” within the current most “disruptive technology” the Tech Industry has seen to date…

This would be a very very high stakes hand to play for in this “Poker Tournament match” that has not yet realy started…

Put the popcorn maker on double overtime, I think this match has just begun…

JonKnowsNothing • November 20, 2023 9:03 PM

@Clive, All

re: Shifting the rats

Our host has been through several of these sorts of buyouts perhaps they were more friendly than the current popcorn shock event.

Rats is Rats.

I doubt anyone at senior level gives a Rats about the janitor in the outsourced cleaning company or the enticed-to-work HB1 Visa holder or the other Temp Visa holders, and rooms of ST Contractors hired from a programmer out sourcer in Romania, or the security guard at the front desk.

btdt and in none of my previous experiences, did the management or owner show the slightest inclination to consider those fates.

The Rats Problem

  • having declared they are all for jumping ship but not quite doing yet, they have notified senior management that they are in point of fact starting a mutiny.

after lots of pop corn overflows from the pan onto the floor

They have the Rats choice

1) Stay
2) Go

They may try to stay but Mutiny on the Bounty indicates that isn’t going to work well.

They may fully jump ship, leaving behind their current corporate perks and packages for the more mundane world of working for M$. Which is like working for Google, HP or IBM, just depends on which letters you prefer.

How each of the 600 or so fare for the next 20-30 years will determine if their outcome was better or worse. It of course, that also depends 100% on their own interpretation of better or worse.

There is no guarantee either way, and another pop corn event is more than likely. The bones of dead corporations in Silicon Valley are everywhere and even on street names.

  • That’s a Simmery Axe for you and a Saint Mary at the Axe for them

===

h ttps://en.wikipedia.o rg/wiki/Church_of_St_Mary_Axe

  • St Mary Axe was a mediaeval church in the City of London. (The church that remains in the modern-day St Mary Axe is St Andrew Undershaft.) Its full name was St Mary, St Ursula and her 11,000 Virgins, and it was also sometimes referred to as St Mary Pellipar. Its common name (also St Mary [or Marie] at the Axe) derives from the sign of an axe over the east end of the church.
  • According to John Stow in A Survey of London (1603), the name derived from “the signe of an Axe, over against the East end thereof”.
  • However, a document dated to the early reign of King Henry VIII describes a holy relic held in the church; “An axe, one of the two that the eleven thousand Virgins were beheaded with”. This refers to the legend that Saint Ursula, when returning to Britain from a pilgrimage to Rome accompanied by eleven thousand handmaidens, had refused to marry a Hunnish chief and was executed along with her whole entourage on the site of modern Cologne, in about 451 AD.
  • The street of St Mary Axe was also the location of the sorcerer’s shop in Gilbert and Sullivan’s operetta The Sorcerer, which documents the former pronunciation “Simmery Axe”.

Stephanie Washington • November 20, 2023 9:15 PM

Clive, what I find really interesting about the OpenAI/Altman situation is that some sources are saying that Microsoft has a license to everything OpenAI has done so far. But the details are unclear; other sources are saying that it’s not really everything, or that there are conditions that might restrict Microsoft.

But, imagine if Microsoft already had the source code and the license to do whatever they want with that existing code, forever. California famously considers employee “non-compete” contracts to be unenforceable—which is often said the be the main reason why the “silicon” industry thrived there. Does that make the OpenAI staff the “traitorous 800”? Hypothetically, then, Microsoft could hire them all, and have them work on exactly what they were working on before. Maybe they’d lose their bug database (or maybe not, if OpenAI were using Github for that). What would that make OpenAI? Probably just a holding company with Azure credits worth 10 billion dollars, which may or may not be transferable. Apparently, that was the form of Microsoft’s famous “10-billion-dollar investment”—not cash.

This whole thing is such a mess that I’ll only predict one thing with certainty: Sam Altman’s going to be getting one hell of a raise. You can’t just fire someone and get them back the next day as if it never happened, especially when it’s known that at least one other company has an offer very publically on the table. (Amusingly, it’s almost the exact opposite of the plot for Seinfeld season 2 episode 7, “The Revenge”: George Costanza quits a job in a moment of anger, after telling off the boss; then realizes it’ll be really difficult to get another job in the current market, and decides to just go into work the next day as if nothing happened.)

JonKnowsNothing • November 20, 2023 9:23 PM

@vas pup, all

re: snitch v whistleblower

The primary difference is in the connotation, the emotional impact of the words.

  • a snitch is a bad person and snitching on people is a bad thing to do
  • a whistleblower is a good person and sacrifices themselves for the better good (group)

The practical application of how it works, is the same. You tell something about someone.

It’s a bit like doxing or forced outing. People publish information about another person, place, or company justified by their personal egess thinking they are doing good for society, by upholding some yard stick of truth.

There’s some schadenfreude built into the equation too.

It also comes from a human dichotomy of Them v Us. A large portion of Hollywood exploits our mixed feelings by setting up a character who is hesitant to do “a wrong thing” but is encouraged to do it anyway. The emotional tension is “Will the person tell on their friends, family, colleagues? Will they snitch?”

In the USA, Canada and UK, we have a historical figure that brings a variable view of the problem. The name is considered a very nasty epithet in the USA. Not so north of the border and remainder of the kingdom. Depending on which histories you read, will depend on how the person is portrayed.

===

ht tps://en.wikipedia .o rg /wiki/Benedict_arnold

Benedict Arnold (14 January 1741 [O.S. 3 January 1740] – June 14, 1801) was an American-born military officer who served during the American Revolutionary War.

He fought with distinction for the American Continental Army and rose to the rank of major general before defecting to the British in 1780. General George Washington had given him his fullest trust and had placed him in command of West Point in New York.

Arnold was planning to surrender the fort to British forces, but the plot was discovered in September 1780, whereupon he fled to the British lines.

In the later part of the war, Arnold was commissioned as a brigadier general in the British Army and placed in command of the American Legion. He led the British army in battle against the soldiers whom he had once commanded, after which his name became synonymous with treason and betrayal in the United States.

Clive Robinson • November 20, 2023 9:34 PM

@ ALL,

“But what of the breakaway?”

As noted one of the gang of four, has effectively and turned on the other three (who we are told have agreed in principle to go).

But who is he and what does he think?

Well Ilya Sutskever is not as “rock and roll” as Ex CEO Sam Altman, and has a reputation for being very thoughtful to the point of being introverted.

We are led to believe he is also very worried. That is he has apparently looked into the abyss and it has looked back[1], with a potential distopian future non may abide or survive. And that say some is the reason for the rift…

So what is his publicly expressed view,

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/10/26/1082398/exclusive-ilya-sutskever-openais-chief-scientist-on-his-hopes-and-fears-for-the-future-of-ai/

[1] Has the abyss looked back? Well my view point is not to disimilar to,

“We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us”

I don’t actually believe in “Artificial General Intelligence”(AGI) as vaguely outlined with all the current hand waving and chicken little prognostication. And I definately know the current technology is sufficiently deficit not just to be “no where near” but “never going to get there” as it’s a dead end in that respect. Do I believe current AI is a harbinger of doom, hell yes, but that’s because it’s a considerable “force multiplier”, and “the hand of man” is on the controls very much acting under a “Directing mind”. If that mind is one of malice driven by the deficiences of the dark pentad of personality disorders then we know what will happen because it already is (guard rails fail every time so far). Consider what we already know of primary narcissism alined with cognative disfunction that we see in the failures that are political “Strong Men”. Now imagine giving them such a “force multiplier” of their want’s and the “arms length” denial or responsability it gives them… That’s what I can see reflected back at us.

bl5q sw5N • November 20, 2023 10:08 PM

@ Clive Robinson

his publicly expressed view

“He thinks ChatGPT just might be conscious (if you squint).”

It’s not just a matter of adding more complexity or software or machine parts, it is fundamentally unreal that machines will ever be conscious. This would imply they were knowers, and knowing is not possible solely on a material basis, which is all machines will ever have. Knowledge requires an immaterial act. It’s clearly demonstrated by the fact that we know truthfully , which is possible only if we become the thing known. This reception can not be material obviously, so must be immaterial.

bl5q sw5N • November 20, 2023 10:54 PM

It is not widely known that the NLP Eliza after working hours at the lab would participate in rock jam sessions with other machines. In the following example the machine seems to be expressing a desire to climb up to the level of its programmers.

“ A total portrait with no omissions
All I want is a vision of you
…
One and one is what I’m telling you
Get a pocket computer
Try to do what you used to do yeah”

https://youtu.be/QbdCpi4qTNY?si=EXnn2rgw7ykreOL_

Winter • November 21, 2023 1:52 AM

@JonKnowsNothing

Pyramids in the new world and old world have lasted thousands of years.

You cannot live in a pyramid.

People’s dwellings are different. Also, tastes and habits change. Therefore, the only houses that endured were those big and expandable enough to be remodeled to new tastes and habits. Those 4 centuries old houses in Amsterdam started out housing big rich families with a large live-in staff of personnel. The building I worked in combined two houses.[1]

[1] It was a labyrinth and when asked what floor my room was on I could not give a useful answer.

Winter • November 21, 2023 1:57 AM

@JonKnowsNothing

The primary difference is in the connotation, the emotional impact of the words.

Re: whistleblower vs snitch

A snitch informs the powers that be on “peers”. A whistleblower informs the public or authorities about the powerful.

The difference is that the former get the powerless punished and the latter the powerful.

Guess what is more risky.

Winter • November 21, 2023 2:05 AM

@bl5q sw5N

It’s not just a matter of adding more complexity or software or machine parts, it is fundamentally unreal that machines will ever be conscious.

What science shows this?

This would imply they were knowers, and knowing is not possible solely on a material basis, which is all machines will ever have.

As science has not been able to find anything that resembles a “soul”, this explains why there is nothing in science that prevents any material entity to have consciousness.

In short, your religious believes tell you a “machine” cannot achieve consciousness.

I do not share your religion.

nobody • November 21, 2023 3:39 AM

@Winter
I do not share your religion.

I totally agree with you.
We will be able to create (if not already) an artificial neuron similar to human one.
We will be able to wire (if not already) these artificial neurons in a way similar to the human brain.
The problem is not if we could, it is if we should.
Because if we manage to achieve this, then: how they will be different to us? What about ethical implications?
Imagine that you can be disconnected at any time, or totally destroyed. You have no rights because you are just a “machine” and of course you are not alive because you have no “soul”. You live in constant fear, you cannot end your life and you can be force to live like this basically for as long as they wish.
Human horrors beyond comprehension

SpaceLifeForm • November 21, 2023 4:04 AM

@ fib

I guess you are not freezing these days.

When Taylor Swift is overdressed and has to cancel a concert.

bl5q sw5N • November 21, 2023 4:36 AM

@ Winter

In short, your religious believes tell you a “machine” cannot achieve consciousness.

You do discussion a disservice by dropping into ad hominem (and non sequitur at that) instead of responding in reason.

And it is actually your religion or belief system that is on display, apparently materialism. When you say “science” you seem to mean quantitative material science, which you adopt as a starting point adequate for all knowing. Where is the argument for that ?

Examine Aristotle and those working in the Aristotelian tradition for arguments in reason for the soul.

ResearcherZero • November 21, 2023 4:55 AM

I don’t think the police care much about philosophy.

“White T-shirt, brown shorts? There he is, get him!”

[Smash, oof, dong, BANG!] “Whoops, that’s the wrong guy.”

“Anyone got a drop gun?”

“That guy looks a lot like Aristotle. Didn’t he die like 3000 years ago dude?”

–

Gamaredon “recently started deploying LitterDrifter, a worm written in VBS, designed to propagate through removable USB drives and secure a C2 channel.”

Those two functionalities reside within an orchestration component saved to disk as “trash.dll”, which is actually a VBS

‘https://research.checkpoint.com/2023/malware-spotlight-into-the-trash-analyzing-litterdrifter/

ASN 207713 GIR-AS, RU

‘https://www.silentpush.com/blog/from-russia-with-a-71

–

Data from applications such as AnyDesk or KeePass can also be exfiltrated by the malware

‘https://darktrace.com/blog/the-rise-of-the-lumma-info-stealer

…in August 2023, lazagrc2cnk[.]xyz was hosted on 194.87.31[.]176, using the ASN AS207713 – GIR-AS, RU

‘https://www.silentpush.com/blog/lummac2

–

Diplomatic vechile for sale. APT29 use Ngrok free static subdomains to phish targets with CVE-2023-38831.

‘https://www.rnbo.gov.ua/files/2023_YEAR/CYBERCENTER/november/APT29%20attacks%20Embassies%20using%20CVE-2023-38831%20-%20report%20en.pdf

ResearcherZero • November 21, 2023 5:10 AM

@bl5q sw5N

“We can’t do anything.” ~ repeated quote from police regarding perpetrator of repeated kidnappings and murders. Soul? Clearly the victims possessed one, but the police?

They’ve had the evidence in boxes for 30 years. They have reopened the cold case. Clearly they have bothered to read little of it. Boxes of statements and police evidence all clearly identifying the one the same perpetrator, repeatedly. Caught at the scene perpetrating the crime, by the police…

“The consequences of being the harbinger of bad news have been around as long as Mercury — the practice of shooting the messenger goes back a long, long way.”

“… we have such different powers and jurisdiction from one state to another. It just seems crazy that we’re not all learning from one another, and that we don’t have standard form legislation to build on the experiences in each state and indeed the Commonwealth.”

‘https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-21/brereton-anti-corruption-nacc-blame-culture-optus-resignation/103130778

nobody • November 21, 2023 5:11 AM

The concept of “soul” is very interesting. It is something that cannot be measured so its existence cannot be proved but more importantly, cannot be disproved either.
But let’s try using a little logic:
Does a virus have a soul? Does a bacteria, a monkey, a human?
If I am not wrong most religions will tell you that only humans have soul.
But I hope all here believe in evolution theory, so humans evolved from a monkey (who has no soul) to a human (who has a soul).
Can somebody explain to me when and how exactly along this evolution path human got its soul?

Winter • November 21, 2023 5:32 AM

@bl5q sw5N

You do discussion a disservice by dropping into ad hominem (and non sequitur at that) instead of responding in reason.

Sorry, but I do not consider “religion” an insult.

You wrote:

…knowing is not possible solely on a material basis, which is all machines will ever have. Knowledge requires an immaterial act.

An immaterial act is an act that has material (physical) consequences but that has itself no material (physical) basis.

In general, such immaterial acts are the subject of religious believes. I feel that I cannot rationally discuss consciousnesses on the basis of the existence of a soul.

So, how is this an “ad hominem”?

ResearcherZero • November 21, 2023 5:35 AM

Ever tried contacting the support team for the police? Good luck with that one!

“But he is a police officer,” said the police. [accompanied by the sound of a fault]

throw logic_error(“Does not compute!”)logic_error?

Logic errors are hard to find because the compiler and interpreter provide no information about what is wrong. Only you know what the program is supposed to do, and only you know that it isn’t doing it!

But if any bug is left in the software by mistake, it can cause runtime_errors…

Runtime Error!

Blah, blah blah….

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.

Please contact the application’s support team for more information…

ResearcherZero • November 21, 2023 5:45 AM

@nobody

It should probably be indicated at a certain reference point in the DNA.

Did you compile the human package properly?

A code library becomes a dependency only when another project uses it, and then it’s a dependency of that project and not of another. Even though a code library is invented specifically for other projects to use, it’s not a dependency until this actually happens.

Perhaps you compiled a person package without a soul?

TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: ‘int’ and ‘str’

bl5q sw5N • November 21, 2023 7:18 AM

@ Winter

Sorry, but I do not consider “religion” an insult.

An ad hominem is not primarily an insult; it is responding to the position of the interlocutor by suggesting they are “really” operating from a motive other than that expressed in their argued position.

An ad hominem might be in order if one wanted to correct the subject of discussion, as in “what are we really doing here ?”

But in this case it’s a non sequitur because the position presented, though unfashionable today, is well grounded in reason and represents a serious challenge to materialist starting points and claims.

Winter • November 21, 2023 8:00 AM

@bl5q sw5N

But in this case it’s a non sequitur because the position presented, though unfashionable today, is well grounded in reason and represents a serious challenge to materialist starting points and claims.

My answer to that is that the question of consciousness is an empirical one, brain functions too are observable. However, immaterial acts are in themselves black boxes that are not amenable to observation.

Claiming that a certain observable function is the result of an immaterial act is relegating the question to the realm of religion. As you have, by necessity, no empirical evidence that such an immaterial act even exists, the discussion stops here. Everything we say would be just a matter of faith.

This leaves us with the only other option, just investigate what we can do with existing living things and all the machines we will be able to build now and in the future.

But it is also clear that there is now absolutely no reason to stop looking for a material basis of consciousness. Whether we fail or not, we will learn a lot about consciousness and machines. By just giving up we will learn nothing.

Clive Robinson • November 21, 2023 10:37 AM

@ nobody,

Re : Only humans have a soul?

blockquote”Can somebody explain to me when and how exactly along this evolution path human got its soul?”

Easy, about the same time con artists and authoritarians found religion was a good way to play “The King game” by claiming “divine right” and similar “Might is rignt” nonsense…

As such dieties will always be that little bit ahead of humans, who in turn will be ahead of other primates and they ahead of other creatures…

So something to strive for, and the rest to be sacrificed on an alter or kitchen table.

bl5q sw5N • November 21, 2023 1:19 PM

@ Winter

My answer to that

We seem to be repeating points made earlier in the discussion chain.

The argument for immaterial act is expressed in compressed form in the last two sentences of the (my) first comment in the chain.

vas pup • November 21, 2023 4:20 PM

@nobody https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2023/11/friday-squid-blogging-unpatched-vulnerabilities-in-the-squid-caching-proxy.html/#comment-429012

on “Can somebody explain to me when and how exactly along this evolution path human got its soul?”

Unfortunately, many years past and everything could be only best guess or assumption.

It was discovered by Kirlian photography that when person dying some kind of small cloud of electromagnetic energy fly away up leaving dying body. If this is soul (I don’t know) then question is when similar energy come into pregnant woman body populating fetus with ‘soul’?

I hope future research will answer this question if some tycoon invest in it required money just out of curiosity.

Winter • November 21, 2023 4:28 PM

@bl5q sw5N

The argument for immaterial act is expressed in compressed form in the last two sentences of the (my) first comment in the chain.

I assume you mean:

Examine Aristotle and those working in the Aristotelian tradition for arguments in reason for the soul.

Without going into discussions about the relation between soul and consciousness, it is clear that Aristotele had limited knowledge about consciousness, cognition, and the working of the brain.

History showed that metaphysics did not progress much or at all since Aristotle. Only after empirical sciences were born did our knowledge about these matters progress. I do not see how metaphysical ideas can be advanced now any more than they have not been advanced since Aristotle.

The main question is thus how advancing an unphysical and immaterial soul will help us understanding consciousness and cognition?

ResearcherZero • November 21, 2023 9:54 PM

Aristotle’s boot maker, who happened to be a terrible storyteller, had his hands chopped off by a disgruntled customer. The soles repeatedly pealed from the bottom of the customers boots, and the meandering and dreary tales from the boot maker, eventually drove the customer to the point of uncontrollable rage.

“I can tell a lot about how a man carries himself from his boots, droned the boot
maker. “Oh my God,” the customer muttered. “Here he goes again. Always with the boots! I can’t take it anymore. Every week he tells the same story about the boots!”

“It will be interesting when people ask about your trade in future, and you will have to explain how once you were a boot maker.”

–

Improper environment may lead your children to become script kiddies.

skids breach INL…

‘https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/11/idaho-national-laboratory-experiences-massive-data-breach-employee-information-leaked-online/

–

Google investigating restoration of cookies mitigations.

‘https://www.linkedin.com/posts/alon-gal-utb_an-upcoming-update-to-lumma-infostealer-is-activity-7128433924380213248-hcEG/

–

kill all active and persistent sessions again please:

‘https://www.netscaler.com/blog/news/netscaler-investigation-recommendations-for-cve-2023-4966/

ResearcherZero • November 21, 2023 10:25 PM

Protection of the media will be “strengthened” by requiring ministerial consent for the prosecution of journalists for certain secrecy offences.

“One of the fundamental principles of our democracy is a clear separation between the political and legal systems. Yet the directive clearly crosses that line.”
https://theconversation.com/australias-secrecy-laws-include-875-offences-reforms-are-welcome-but-dont-go-far-enough-for-press-freedom-218234

“Australia’s democracy suffers when government wrongdoing and human rights violations are swept under the rug of secrecy laws. All Australians should be alarmed that there are 553 secrecy offences in federal law and another 296 non-disclosure duties.”

Breaching any of the 849 secrecy restrictions can attract criminal liability.

About 40% of the laws are designed to protect personal details held by the government, including names, phone numbers or addresses, bank details or health information, while 15% protect law enforcement information, and 10% protect national security matters.

Another 10% of the laws are designed to protect information which, if disclosed, could prejudice commercial interests.

‘https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/mar/28/more-than-800-secrecy-laws-keeping-australian-government-information-from-the-public-paper-shows

The changes will see the removal of criminal liability from 168 of the 875 secrecy offences, and further reductions in the number of offences through the enactment of a new general secrecy offence in the act.
https://the-riotact.com/new-general-secrecy-offence-designed-with-pwc-in-mind/723980

“We are consulting on whether there is a need to establish a Whistleblower Protection Authority or commissioner, the remaining recommendations from the Moss Review, as well as recommendations from other relevant reports and reviews.”

Who within government can receive, disclosures, including a ‘no wrong doors’ referral approach; pathways to make a disclosure outside of government, including requirements for external disclosures, access to professional assistance, and the treatment of intelligence information; available protections and remedies; functions of oversight and integrity agencies and supports for whistleblowers; and a principles-based approach to regulation.

‘https://consultations.ag.gov.au/integrity/pswr-stage2/

ResearcherZero • November 21, 2023 10:58 PM

“People are free to express ideas and opinions,” reads one interview script used by North Korean software developers that offers suggestions for how to describe a “good corporate culture” when asked. Expressing one’s thoughts freely could be met with imprisonment in North Korea.

One of the workers had accounts at more than 20 freelancing websites in the United States, Britain, Japan, Uzbekistan, Spain, Australia and New Zealand.

‘https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/kim-s-it-army-how-north-koreans-are-duping-tech-companies-into-hiring-them-20231122-p5elx8.html

–

Baby monitors and other gizmos to have security standards…

“We will advance the global frontier of cyber security. We will lead the development of emerging cyber technologies.” by 2030

Establishing consumer standards for smart devices and software; building a threat sharing platform for the health sector; professionalising the cyber workforce and accelerating the cyber industry, and investing in regional co-operation and leadership in cyber governance forums internationally.

https://theconversation.com/new-cyber-policy-to-harden-defences-against-our-fastest-growing-threat-218255

RMP (risk management program) Coverage under SoCI will require telcos to report their efforts to the government.

‘https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=4ee50e77-044b-4c9e-bcc8-de65eb361b93&subId=750429

…and HOT CHIPs scans.

‘https://www.cyber.gov.au/about-us/view-all-content/reports-and-statistics/commonwealth-cyber-security-posture-2023

Winter • November 22, 2023 2:28 AM

Re: Sam Altman

plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

Xwitter 7:03 a.m. · 22 nov. 2023
‘https://twitter.com/OpenAI/status/1727206187077370115

OpenAI
@OpenAI
We have reached an agreement in principle for Sam Altman to return to OpenAI as CEO with a new initial board of Bret Taylor (Chair), Larry Summers, and Adam D’Angelo.

We are collaborating to figure out the details. Thank you so much for your patience through this.

Clive Robinson • November 22, 2023 2:55 AM

@ ResearcherZero, ALL,

Re : NoK IT army does “Hire Me”.

“One of the [NoK] workers had accounts at more than 20 freelancing websites”

Reminds me of two cautionary tales. The first is from the “Building Trades”,

“If you pay cheap, you get cheap, but it always costs you more.”

(Sometimes called “Slapping lipstick on a pig” or worse).

The second is I guess courtesy of Bram Stoker and his literary legacy of Count Dracula[1],

“A Vampire can only enter your house, if you invite them in.”

So the simple solution is,

“Don’t be cheap, and invite in the wrong sort of people to work in your house.”

But of course… Sometimes you don’t but it still happens…

There is the tale of a US Freelancer,

“Doing the Capitalist thing.”

Apparently “Bob” who had a well paying six figure contract or two would open up a hole in the VPN/ firewall on his machine and having given his “authentication token” to a “foreign entity” by Fedex got them to log in and do the work he was being paid for, for about 1/5th what he was getting…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21043693

Was Bob even breaking the law… Who cares it was funny.

But consider most “gig-work” contracts in the UK have clauses about “finding a stand in” so the company can claim you are not an employee… Are they actually inviting in the ravening hords?

[1] Back in the 1890’s Bram Stoker, by bringing in Central European folktales about the nosferatu (or “undead”). And glossing it up with historical accounts of Romanian prince Vlad Tepes who in the 15th-century got quite creative about detering an invading army, hence his more popular title of “Vlad the Impaler”. Came up with the enduring antihero of Count Dracula as the “Blood Sucking leader” of his Vampire hordes.

Clive Robinson • November 22, 2023 3:09 AM

@ ALL,

“Sam back at OpenAI?”

Re : End of round three or start of new twist?

Allegedly Sam Altman is back at OpenAI and the unpaid board that was the bulk of “the gang of four” is gone.

From BBC at ~07:50 UTC,

“OpenAI co-founder Sam Altman will return as boss just days after he was fired by the board, the firm has said.

The agreement “in principle” involves a new board members being appointed, the tech company added.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67494165

I guess the real question that springs to mind when you read of what Sam Altman Xweeted,

‘He added the firm would build on its “strong partnership with Microsoft.”‘

Is,

“What has Microsoft got out of the deal?”

You can probably make a good bet it will be rather more than “Business Continuity”.

Clive Robinson • November 22, 2023 4:09 AM

@ Bruce, ALL,

How to stop §320 Protection

This is a fairly harrowing time line of abuse via a now shut down web site (Leif Brooks “Omegle”) that was previously hidding behind Section 230 protections,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67485561

However the lawyer has in effect found a way to breach Section 230 protection by not going after “users and their content” which section 230 effectively protects, but against the technology, design, and structure of the actual web site,

“Alice’s case is a legal landmark, as most social media lawsuits in the US are dismissed under a catch-all protection law called Section 230, which exempts companies from being sued for things that users do on their platforms.

Alice’s attorneys used a novel angle of attack called a Product Liability lawsuit, arguing that the site was defective in its design.”

Thus the question arises as most if not all “Social Media” platforms can be found to fail “Product Liability Laws”, and they also effectively abuse people for the money that keeps the current internet running,

“What is the future of the Internet?”

A thought to mull over the first “Cup of old joe” in the morning (sometimes more aptly called “Devil’s Brew” in the UK 😉

JonKnowsNothing • November 22, 2023 10:28 AM

@Clive, All

re: End of round three or start of new twist?

The bloodbath already started on return. Per MSM there is a new board of directors with 3 or 4 new bodies; meaning 3 or 4 other bodies got kicked.

The 50 or so, non-committed employees will be at risk for bloodbaths, since snitches will tell (see prior posts on snitch v whistleblower). Since they had not declared their previous allegiance, they can expect an email in the next few months. It will be done quietly.

Then there is the popcorn pan of Alt having been “hired by M$” and is now back at “OAI”. That’s going to be an interesting human resources YIKES. Primarily at that level it will be about stock ownership, stock options, stock grants, stock rights and how the stock dilution game will play out with the VCs (Thiel CIA). It will be a lot of money somewhere soonerish.

Then there is the M$ puddle of blood. The structure of the company with the non-profit owning the profit segment, where M$ is invested, is not stable. Clearly the For Profit motive is M$ goal. The Non-Profit portion is In The Way. I expect a full restructure, sell out, buy out that won’t be too far off.

When (or if, ’cause it’s all SWAG) the buyout happens we will know a lot more of what did not get into the MSM. In the short term, all the Non-Rats will have a great holiday, after the buyout happens, there will be fewer holiday wishes.

Money does strange things

Clive Robinson • November 22, 2023 6:05 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing, ALL,

Re : Gone for now…

Anyone else notice that purged from the OpenAI board are,

1, Its only two women[1]
2, They both have a connection with Oxford University UK[2]
3, It’s been said they also have strong ties to effective altruism[3]

Both of whom were not employees of OpenAI and both of whom have expressed concerns about AI safety risks, and the overly fast forward motion of OpenAI (what some have “assumed” in the MSM is the root of the strange goings on).

But… they both appear to have been quite influenced by the same ideas and notions expressed in,

“The Windfall Clause: Distributing the Benefits of AI for the Common Good”

https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.11595

Interestingly… As reported in a couple of places the sell off of employee shares that would have made many OpenAI employees jump up into the “very rich” or above catagory, that was due to have happened at the begining of the week has now not happened…

Make of this information what you will…

[1] Tech entrepreneur Tasha McCauley and Helen Toner, a policy expert at Georgetown’s Center for Security and Emerging Technology.

[2] According to News International rag “The FT” both Toner and McCauley, sit on the advisory board of the Centre for the Governance of AI research group in the UK. Both are also apparently “Morally Serious” which is code speak for a form of modern religious almost Puritan outlook.

[3] For those keeping up with other news should know that “Effective altruism”, has been given a bit of a black eye very recently. It is what a certain now very notorious –after being found guilty of defrauding his customers– Sam Bankman-Fried of the FTX crypto exchange was into. Again the news portrays it as having a religious furver or zeal in it’s adherents.

MarkH • November 22, 2023 7:28 PM

vice.com has an article about radio emission GPS attacks in the Middle East. It quotes an academic specialized in the study of navigation satellite signals to the effect that some incidents reported by airliner crews — starting this September — are the first clear cases of airliners flying off course in consequence of intentional spoofing/jamming of Sat Nav signals.

A surprising component of this story is that — according to the reports, seemingly — the airliners’ inertial systems failed to fulfill the navigational backup role they should assume when GPS isn’t working properly. This is correctly described as an avionics flaw, but the nature of the fault is baffling to me.

MarkH • November 22, 2023 7:49 PM

Continued:

Inertial navigation systems on airliners have accumulating error rates too large for precise navigation across large distances. Accordingly, other navigation data sources are used to “update” the inertial system — the inertial parameter estimates are corrected, and accumulated drift rates are thus zeroed out.

In this way, airliner inertial and Sat Nav data are effectively synthesized. It’s logical that an inertial system using bad GPS values would mess up its own position estimates.

However, (a) the researcher says that the signals traced to Iran are malformed and shouldn’t be accepted by a GPS receiver: they are more like DoS than spoofing; and (b) the inertial system software should apply “reasonableness” tests to GPS updates, rejecting the data as appropriate.

ResearcherZero • November 22, 2023 11:31 PM

Not the greatest implementation.

Windows Hello fingerprint authentication compromise (Inspiron, ThinkPad, Surface Pro X)

‘https://blackwinghq.com/blog/posts/a-touch-of-pwn-part-i/

And a video if you want something to watch.

‘https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjvu-l6vKFE

–

All in all, the ‘soul’ is a pretty dubious argument, unless used to refer to empathy and compassion perhaps. Still, even that lacks any real basis in reality. Once you begin to account for the development of cognition and cooperation it lacks any basis outside of merely philosophical arguments.

Non-kin Cooperation in Ants

‘https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fevo.2021.736757/full

“When we see animals like elephant seals fighting with each other—as we do in lots of nature documentaries—we’re really seeing only a very small sliver of time. Much more of the time they’re accommodating each other and respecting where the boundaries are—and that’s cooperation. There is a tremendous amount of cooperation in nature.”
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/birds_do_it_bats_do_it

“Mutually beneficial inter-group interaction, despite power differences, often requires the development of cross-cultural competence.”

‘https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-021-00916-5

The researchers found that cooperation was less likely to be sustained when people disagree about each other’s reputations. That’s when they decided to incorporate empathy, or theory of mind, which, in the context of the study, entails the ability to understand the perspective of another person.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190409135915.htm

“There was a spillover effect, where suddenly we have these agents that are tools, and that can cause us to view humans as tools, too.”
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2023/07/psychology-embracing-ai

ResearcherZero • November 23, 2023 12:28 AM

use-it-or-lose-it AI’s foray into domains of human cognition marks a fundamental shift.

Short-term memory is limited. This short-term memory limit for “holding” information will affect the amount of information working memory has access to for “processing.” Information in short-term memory is also short lived, disappearing after 10-60 seconds if it is not rehearsed.

https://theprint.in/yourturn/subscriberwrites-impact-of-artificial-intelligence-on-the-cognitive-abilities-of-humans/1838889/

“The psychological detachment from physical currency and the ease of tap-and-go payments can lead to a sense of financial detachment, prompting consumers to spend more freely.”

“The convenience of contactless payments removes barriers to impulsive buying, as consumers can act on their desires immediately. This is particularly common in sectors like food and beverage, retail, and entertainment where customers are more likely to make impulsive purchases.”

“Businesses can leverage this consumer behavior by strategically implementing contactless payment options and optimizing their point-of-sale displays to encourage impulse purchases.”

‘https://www.financemagnates.com/fintech/payments/the-rise-of-contactless-payments-transforming-consumer-behavior-in-the-digital-age/

There are several misconceptions regarding the opportunistic nature and resourcefulness of organised crime…
https://www.govtech.com/security/artificial-intelligence-making-cyber-crime-harder-to-fight

Some areas do not have internet access due to remoteness, poverty or lack of service.
For those who can’t or won’t get banked or go digital, what happens in a cashless future?

‘https://www.accesstocash.org.uk/media/1087/final-report-final-web.pdf

Organised crime often steps in when it finds opportunity. People are also less receptive to using contactless technology when casually solicited by charities.

“The biggest barrier to internet access is poverty and people of all ages are excluded.”
https://www.psa.org.nz/our-voice/government-action-can-achieve-digital-inclusion/

ResearcherZero • November 23, 2023 1:47 AM

The U.N. General Assembly has voted overwhelmingly for the organization to develop a global tax framework, despite last-minute attempts to derail the plan from wealthy countries including the United Kingdom, United States, and the entire European Union bloc.
https://www.icij.org/investigations/paradise-papers/un-votes-to-create-historic-global-tax-convention-despite-eu-uk-moves-to-kill-proposal/

Like with most white-collar scandals, behind the high-profile names in the Ennia controversy are the accountants — often at global firms — who inspect companies’ books and create transactions of such complexity it can take years for investigators to untangle them.
https://www.icij.org/investigations/cyprus-confidential/curacao-pension-fund-offshore-ansary/

ResearcherZero • November 23, 2023 2:32 AM

No more—no more—no more—
(Such language holds the solemn sea
To the sands upon the shore)
Shall bloom the thunder-blasted tree,
Or the stricken eagle soar!

And all my days are trances,
And all my nightly dreams
Are where thy grey eye glances,
And where thy footstep gleams—
In what ethereal dances,
By what eternal streams.

~By Edgar Allan Poe

20 Days in Mariupol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvAyykRvPBo

Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore—
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
“’Tis some visitor,” I muttered, “tapping at my chamber door—
Only this and nothing more.”

And the Raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon’s that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o’er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted—nevermore!

Clive Robinson • November 23, 2023 2:52 AM

@ ResearcherZero, ALL,

Re : Soul and Deity how we peg ourselves.

“Once you begin to account for the development of cognition and cooperation it lacks any basis outside of merely philosophical arguments.”

I would put it as “development cooperation and cognition”

Even what in the US they now call “trash pandas” (Raccoons) are “highly cooperative”, more so than they are “tool using”. Also cooperation is a very real survival trait no matter how big or small you are or how many cells you have. It builds “social groups” that have “strength of numbers” that effectively increase efficiency by “teaching” other members of the group which is where cognition starts to come into the picture.

The real difference is,

“What comes next?”

And that almost always depends on the ability to “use tools”. Some creatures are extreamly limited in their ability to use tools in comparison to size and this has limited there development and their social groups tend toward “herd”.

Orhers even birds like covids do develop tool using abilities and their social groupings tend to more complex dynamics.

There is an argument that humans are what they are because of opposable thumbs. Whilst true it vastly increases our tool using ability, the complications of brain size and birth cannal restrictions and our evolution around it has enabled our cognative development, to the point that “keeping secrets” is a very real survival mechanism, which demonstrates the ability to think in terms of “future time” and thus “consequences”.

But humans are said to have both a soul and deities and we refer to those who have what we now regard as significant personality disorders as being “Soul-less” and “God-less” individuals.

Neither is necessary for individual survival but the concepts –and that is all they are– help the rest of humanity “peg it’s self” on a scale…

We see a “Soul” as what puts us “above the animals” and “deities as above ourselves” thus we “strive” to be better than animals –but mostly fail in the West– and become what we have imbued deities with of wisdom, omnipotence and most importantly compassion.

Compassion is an evolutionary advantage for social rather than individual survival, though it serves both. It is part of “social efficiency” or what we now call learning. We invest significant resources in cognition and learning thus storing knowledge, what we see as compassion is a way to preserve knowledge in an efficient way.

One aspect of compassion is “love of large eyes” that is genetically we are attracted to “large eyes” and defending those that have them. We imbue them with either “youth” or “wisdom” as a form of “social fitness”. Those with “small, beady, squinty, etc eyes are regarded as dangerous or evil almost instinctively.

To a certain extent large eyes convay a degree of increased survival to the species enabling us to live in both day light and night time and spot predators as well as be predators. As befiting “tool using” our visual systems work as “range finding” thus look in the same direction, where as non tool using creatures have all round vision as prey creatures or “herd animals”.

Thus “soul” and “deities” have no tangible meaning they are the result of developed cognition that understands past present and future thus a continuation in which we exist. With “having a soul” is a way to say “better than animal” and a deity is a future state to strive for to say “better than we are”.

I’m sorry if that offends some peoples cognative sensibilities, but they need to grow past them if human “social existance” is to carry on developing.

JonKnowsNothing • November 23, 2023 4:50 AM

@Clive, All

re:

As reported in a couple of places the sell off of employee shares that would have made many OpenAI employees jump up into the “very rich” or above catagory, that was due to have happened at the begining of the week has now not happened…

The vast majority of employees with shares, grants, rights never read the many paged documents, nor do they read the IRS treatment of share sales and timing of share sales.

It’s very complicated as to when, where, how and how much profit and how much tax you owe, and it all depends on the details and timing in those documents.

It’s looks good on the offer letter and on the summary page of the employment contract, but it rarely turns out the way folks expect.

That doesn’t mean the people won’t fight like heck when they think their stairway to heaven might be jeopardized, while they may not realized they will get next to nothing, and owe a huge tax debt instead.

It’s all in the timing, type of stock, type of sale.

Plus the Venture Capitalists are not interested in having “just bare employees” become independently wealty. The rats might leave the ship for never-never land; when the VCs depend on all rats remaining on board. That bit of stock hocus pocus is in the mixture.

They might be very lucky the sale didn’t happen.

iirc(badly) A good number of years ago, a fast moving start up in Silicon Valley, valued at lots of $$$, did a big round of employee stock sales. The company held the funds in their managed portfolio. On paper in November, the employees where millionaires (now they would be billionaires). Shortly thereafter the company went belly up during one of the many down turns in Silicon Valley.

Then the IRS came knocking on the door in Jan for their share of stock sale tax revenues. On paper and by tax law, the shares were short term sales subject to full tax rates. The required time for long term tax rate had not quite happened before the sale. Then there was the niggling problem of when the employee exercised their stock option with actually buying the stock, rather than just holding the grant.

The company bankruptcy also blasted the company managed stock portfolio, based on the hierarchy of who gets first claim to corporate assets, the employees who held their funds in the portfolio got nothing.

The employees owed millions of dollars for the sale in November. In February the stock was worthless. Employees did not realize that the IRS only allows $3,000 / year write off of losses and it would take decades to claim the losses. The IRS wanted their November money NOW.

People lost everything paying the tax debt: their houses, cars, pensions, savings, assets everything went to pay the taxes. They got a $3,000 / year write off for the rest of their lives that can be applied to new income.

===

Note: Normally these sales are based on Buy and Sell Same Day Exchange with net profits going to the employee. A granted but un-excerised amount stock is sold on the market and the funds from the sale are used to buy that stock amount at the grant price. The employee only owns the shares on the day of sale or for a short time before the sale date.

Stock Grant 100 shares at .10 cents per share
Pre-purchased Amount of the Stock Grant zero
Corporate Managed Stock Sale 100 shares at $10 per share
Employee Funds are $9.90 / share
Less the handling cost of the sale

IRS gross liability 100 * 9.90 = $990
Short Term Tax Rate

Winter • November 23, 2023 5:29 AM

@Clive

One aspect of compassion is “love of large eyes” that is genetically we are attracted to “large eyes” and defending those that have them.

I learned that:

If babies were not cute, we would kill them.

Large eyes are just part of it.

‘https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/why-babies-are-so-cute-and-why-we-react-the-way-we-do

Clive Robinson • November 23, 2023 5:31 AM

@ JonKnowsNothing,

The way around part of the issue in the UK used to be “Limited Liability Company” and “debt servicing”.

In essence the LLC is used as an intermediary, that “borrows money” and makes “a loan to you”. You then “advance repay the loan” by “pre-signing over the shares” to the LLC thus back then you never actually owned or had liability for the shares.

It was also used as a way to get equity release on houses that become part of an Estate, but would be in a higher tax bracket. The company in effect owned the house not the person who’s Estate it was, the bebificiaries were “Share Holders”. The LLC was responsable for “valuing the property value” which as we know from the Trumper can make a pot of paint the most valuable asset. As the house could easily go from being a “only fit for redevelopment to prime real estate in just three months with a more than 10:1 change in value as long as you don’t sell it and only borrow against it no tax owed in the UK back then…

But eventually the legislators caught up with things…

But… There are tricks you can still pull with “Trusts” abroad via “Limited Liability Partnerships” and “Back to Back Loans”

Which is one reason property in the UK is so over valued compared to somewhere like France… Because all sorts of Russian’s, Dictators, Despots and Mobsters “wash their money” as the UK Gov did a “Pontious Pilot” and looked away whilst washing there hands…

As @ResearcherZero pointed a link to earlier there has been a bit of a curfuffle at the UN over the “Global Tax” initiative being promoted by “The African Block” as they are refered to. In particular Nigeria, so as you can understand the EU, US, UK and Dependencies, and even China are not at all happy, and aluding to it as being yet another “419 Scam”.

The real problem though can be seen through the history of the Bretton Woods Agreement, that certain European Bankers eventually worked out how to break with the Bonds Market.

It will be fairly certain that something simillar will happen with any “Global Tax”.

Clive Robinson • November 23, 2023 8:25 AM

@ Winter,

The “Discover Magazine” article saves me having to write a lot 😉

And as a reward,

https://www.boredpanda.com/funny-raccoons-trash-pandas/

But ask yourself which two or three are not as “cute” and which evoke a different response[1]

Whilst the article dod mention the birth cannal issue it did not mention the more recent “tool using” side of cute.

But also and this is a quite sensitive subject currently…

The use of thermography and similar blood flow issues have shown that cute / parental and similar emotion has a physical component in that the blood flow in the head and chest increases.

But what you might call lust causes the same blood flow in the head and chest but also in the groin.

This has renewed a contentious issue from the 1980’s and 1990’s about what happens if the “love of big eyes” etc gets in effect perverted, hence certain types of “attraction” that are very undesirable rise up. We’ve known that the attraction to children was endemic in some cultures and the likes of the Victorian era in cities it was a profitable and fairly large business selling children on…

Hence it’s been argued that it is in effect like certain personality disorders like narcissism, etc effectively incurable… A side effect of this is the issue is now firmly in the “career killer” catagory and it’s a,”don’t talk, research, or publish” censoring catagory.

Which is rather worrying, because as indicated in the article marketing people are busy pushing cute. Especially into childrens clothing and the like, even with beauty pagents named along the lines of “Little Miss XXX” etc which means in effect they are being objectified and that is never good.

In the UK we have a newspaper called “The Sun” also called by others “The Scum” for good reason. It’s part of Rupert “the bare faced lier” Murdoch’s stable. It’s editor was at one time Rebecca Wade who Rupert appeared to have a strange attraction for, and she was responsible for a lot of lets say “young girl” images appearing with quite distasteful captions. Whilst it still goes on I’m told it has been dialed back a bit…

[1] The chances are you will find the one showing it’s left fang, the one lacking fur and the albino less cute. But the one stuck on the back of the refuse cart will evoke a different response than “Ahh cute”.

Winter • November 23, 2023 1:34 PM

@Clive

Hence it’s been argued that it is in effect like certain personality disorders like narcissism, etc effectively incurable…

There is a huge market in “curing” unwanted attraction between people. But this never works. For good reasons.

Attraction between individuals is rather important for fitness. Elementary ethology (animal behavior) shows that the subjects and forms of such attractions are fixed in early life, very early life (imprinting). If they go in unwanted directions, you’ll have to live with it.

We still have absolutely no idea what cues are used to determine the characteristics of own and attractive genders.

In general, such attractions are not pathological. Sometimes, they can drive people to suicide because of their impossibility.

In cases where they are destructive, they often combine with serious personality disorders like narcissism or psychopathy. We could say that you only hurt what you love when you are sick.[1]

So, I would say the psychopathy comes first, the “love” later.

[1] Although the frequency of femicide by partners suggests a perverse evolutionary mechanism.

Clive Robinson • November 23, 2023 3:04 PM

@ To ALL of the US and it’s dependencies,

Have an enjoyable Thanksgiving

And may it be peacefull and restfull for you your friends and families.

Oh and check your body armour if you are going shopping tommorow, I hear it can get quite competitive at times 😉

But most of all have an enjoyable change to the daily grind…

vas pup • November 23, 2023 4:24 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67506716

“Moment flash mob ransacks Nike store in Los Angeles.
A flash mob has ransacked a Nike store in Los Angeles, stealing $12,000 worth of goods.

Footage released by the Los Angeles Police Department’s Commercial Crimes Division shows a group of young people ripping clothing off the racks and carrying bags full of merchandise.

Police say the group, which consisted of 17 suspects between the ages of 15 and 20, fled the premises in five different vehicles.

Detectives are seeking assistance from the public in identifying the suspects.”

Q: How long mob will rule US big cities?
If I were Governor, I’ll activate National Guard and stop this immediately regardless of possible effect on future re-election. MOB or LAW and ORDER? That is the choice.

ResearcherZero • November 23, 2023 11:34 PM

A Finnish court has decided to jail Julius Kivimäki, who bankrupted a psychotherapy practice, after he extorted it along with thousands of patients. The court previously decided not to incarcerate Kivimäki, who was found guilty of more than 50,000 cybercrimes, including swatting, harassment, bomb threats, and fraud.

‘https://krebsonsecurity.com/2023/11/alleged-extortioner-of-psychotherapy-patients-faces-trial/

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X continues to dig in its heels amid more reports which indicate that the platform’s brand safety measures are not functioning as intended.
https://www.socialmediatoday.com/news/x-refutes-newsguard-report-which-claims-that-its-displaying-ads-alongside-h/700639/

The system X claims can stop ads appearing alongside hateful content, does not seem to work (or perhaps exist).

‘https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/11/elon-musk-sues-media-matters-despite-admitting-x-paired-ads-with-nazi-content/

The decision to file in Texas may have been intended to circumvent anti-SLAPP statutes.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/20/tech/x-sues-media-matters/index.html

ResearcherZero • November 24, 2023 12:04 AM

NK ZINC APT used CyberLink Corp signing certificate to launch LambLoad supply chain attack.

“The malicious file has been seen on over 100 devices in multiple countries, including Japan, Taiwan, Canada, and the United States.”

‘https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/blog/2023/11/22/diamond-sleet-supply-chain-compromise-distributes-a-modified-cyberlink-installer/

Malligyong-1 military reconnaissance satellite launch and orbit.
https://sattrackcam.blogspot.com/2023/11/north-korea-successfully-launches-their.html

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“The importance of changing a device’s default password cannot be overstated.”

0day used to exploit network video recorders and “outlet-based wireless LAN router built for hotels and residential applications. …Online manuals suggest several models use the default credentials pair being leveraged as part of this campaign.”

‘https://www.akamai.com/blog/security-research/new-rce-botnet-spreads-mirai-via-zero-days

Teenagers unleashed the Mirai botnet. It’s code spread everywhere and still continues to menace sites, services, and providers with the ability to take them offline.
https://www.wired.com/story/mirai-untold-story-three-young-hackers-web-killing-monster/

When Krebs began to unmask Mirai’s creators they pounded hosting services with colossal DDoS attacks.

‘https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/01/who-is-anna-senpai-the-mirai-worm-author/

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