WholeHog April 17, 2007 1:46 PM

Perhaps Bruce can comment on this
TIDE is a massive repository of intelligence data.
Ok say we have terrorist or nefarious people using email to talk and plan. How does the follow services or How can the following service defeat TIDE or other ISP’s who may lend to collections? I mean how can companies below actually say they have totally disappearing emails, when if the FBI NSA CIA needs to track them? Bruce any comments?

derf April 17, 2007 2:24 PM

“The last credible report on the list put its length at 119,000 names, though the TSA says it has since narrowed it to a smaller number that must remain a secret.”

The number is a secret? From whom?

The number itself doesn’t matter to anyone actually on the list, only to those outraged by Orwellian lists.

Anonymous April 17, 2007 3:18 PM


“The number is a secret? From whom?”

They don’t want you to know that the real number is zero, so they have multiple fake lists with real people’s names on them. These people are forbidden from flying, but it’s not because they’re being watched, it’s because they’re on a fake list.

So real people get denied air travel, but there is no followup when this happens. That’s how you know the real list is empty, and there’s just a bunch of fake lists floating around.

You can no longer leave the theater. The on-stage theatrics have become reality.

Brandioch Conner April 17, 2007 7:35 PM

So … you’re guilty enough to be on a list … but not guilty enough to be arrested or even under surveillance.

The people generating these lists are relying upon non-governmental / non-law enforcement people to do …. what?

Specifically. What is the aim of these lists? What do they plan to achieve with them?

And how do they determine whether the lists are successful?

shimmershade April 17, 2007 8:06 PM

I don’t suppose we’ll ever know the extent to which the lode of personal information comes from private firms, whether under governmental contract or not.

Anonymous April 18, 2007 12:27 AM

Funny, the “number must remain secret” was the first thing I noticed too. If that doesn’t say how little the people in charge of these lists know, I don’t know what does.

Gerv April 18, 2007 2:59 AM

In further breaking news, the US Government has decided that a new watch list is necessary, containing the name of every single person currently present in the United States.

“If everyone’s on the watch list, then nothing can happen undetected”, explained a spokesman from the Department of Homeland Security. “We’ll be focussing our resources across the board and putting targetted surveillance in place on the entire population. Plus, as everyone’s on it, we don’t actually need to distribute any information to law enforcement and security checkpoints. The Paperwork Reduction Act people are going to love us.”

MathFox April 18, 2007 4:18 AM

Wired seems to have missed the “don’t perform financial transactions with” checklist.

At best this whole forest of checklists is a waste of money. One central checklist would do and the remaining money could be spent on more effective or less intrusive security.
At worst one can see this array of checklist as a way to make living in the USA hard for people you don’t like. (political opponents?) Making it a hassle to open a bank account, obtain a mortgage or get a credit card; making it a similar hassle to fly… Even if the original intent was good, a “secret” watch list system is open for abuse.

altjira April 18, 2007 7:05 AM

So who maintains the “people who read and post comments on” list?

Anybody so interested in security must have something to hide.

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