Friday Squid Blogging: New Vulnerability in Squid HTTP Proxy Server
In a rare squid/security combined post, a new vulnerability was discovered in the Squid HTTP proxy server.
Comments
finagle • August 9, 2025 6:47 AM
I was asked recently to do a security audit on a website by a friend. Although they didn’t specify their concerns, the URL they sent me was the start of the payment flow.
FYI TL;DR version
The site is for a far right political group and hosted behind Cloudflare through an outfit called nation builder. Seems that they provide hosting services to the far right, and host a wide range of sites that at a glance seem likely to promote hate speech and the full range of ~isms. I checked to see if Cloudflare allowed this kind of site and found that there is considerable criticism of them for doing so. Aside from which their security sucks, starting with legacy TLS and JS libraries.
cls • August 9, 2025 7:04 AM
@finagle
re:
Aside from which their security sucks, starting with legacy TLS and JS libraries.
You didn’t tell them about those vulns, did you? Thanks. We will “fix up” the site later! Ha.
More seriously, cloudflare has rightly earned criticism for some of their practices. But, disagreeable speech is not illegal. Did the web site you evaluated have any CSAM or incitement for violence or any other such prohibited words? If the site content fits within cloudflare’s ToS, good enough.
Clive Robinson • August 9, 2025 8:36 AM
Is Musk DOGiE the biggest waste?
I doubt that this will surprise some, but others might like to see their suspicions supported,
$21.7 billion is as they say “a lot of cabbage”, wasted on “Efficiency Theater”. The question that almost immediately comes to mind is of course “Who’s pocket?” got deeper because of it, with the second being “How much got slid across over the Oval Office desk?”
The article unfortunately does not say anything in depth but does point out a lot of it was to now jobless federal workers who if they had not taken the money would have been terminated with prejudice anyway.
What the article does however go into is the expected atleast 14million avoidable deaths that will be on Musk’s hands nearly 5million of which will be babies and toddlers and other children under 5 years old,
“The richest man in the world, put in charge of government efficiency, made life-and-death decisions based on conspiracy theories from fringe social media accounts. What could go wrong?
Well, everything, as it turns out.
DOGE’s crown jewel achievement was completely destroying USAID based on—and I feel the need to repeat this—conspiracy theories. A study published in The Lancet found that USAID had prevented 92 million deaths between 2001 and 2021. The agency’s destruction is now projected to cause 14 million avoidable deaths over the next five years, including 4.5 million children under age 5.
This is blood on the hands of Musk and the ridiculous nonsense peddlers he believed, rather than talking to actual experts.”
My “simple maths” suggests that it’s more likely to be over 23million avoidable deaths on Musk’s hands.
He oft behaves like a baby having a fit of conniption hurling toys out the pram, hence why I call him “Hell-on Rusk” whilst others are less polite.
I’m sure new names are popping up as you read this.
Clive Robinson • August 9, 2025 9:28 AM
@ Bruce,
You’ve expressed an interest in certain types of photography in the past.
Well the short list for “The Royal Maritime Greenwich”(RMG) Astronomy Photographer of the year is up, and some are realy stunning and would look good on any wall,
https://www.rmg.co.uk/whats-on/astronomy-photographer-year/galleries/2025-shortlist
If peeps happen to be in London this weekend they might want to pop over and see 100 of the over 5000 photos entered displayed on light boxes,
https://www.rmg.co.uk/whats-on/astronomy-photographer-year/exhibition
Winter • August 9, 2025 11:58 AM
@Clive
My “simple maths” suggests that it’s more likely to be over 23million avoidable deaths on Musk’s hands.
Musk was just following orders. Orders that were written in Project-2025. These are the real baby murderers.
The conservatives say they want more babies, But only the right kind of babies. Other babies should be gotten rid of.
[1] ‘https://chills.substack.com/p/how-project-2025-took-down-usaid
not important • August 9, 2025 5:25 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/japans-stealth-warship-just-won-043004884.html
=Japan has secured its biggest arms export deal ever through its new Mogami-class frigate.
The $6.5 billion sale will see Australia acquiring 11 of the stealth warships The Mogami sale is a breakthrough for Japan’s weapons export industry, which Tokyo is
trying to grow after lifting a decadeslong self-imposed ban on foreign arms sales.
The 427-foot Mogami frigates are some of the world’s newest warships. Built in 2019, the
first of these vessels only entered service in Japan in 2022.
The vessels are armed with two Type 17 anti-ship cruise missile launchers, a 16-cell
vertical launch system, two .50 caliber machine gun turrets, two Type 12 torpedo tubes, a five-inch main gun, and space at the rear for a Seahawk helicopter or drones.
A key selling point of the Mogami is that many of its functions, such as navigation and
weapons handling, are automated. This allows it to be run by a smaller crew of about 90
people. By comparison, some warships of its size may require crews of up to 200.=
ResearcherZero • August 10, 2025 8:25 AM
@Winter, @Clive
Another contribution of the doggie bag (apart from picking up their own crap), hampered ability to respond or detect penetration of confidential and classified data. Degraded access controls, weakened/missing security and improper protocols, can quietly be ignored when there is little to no accountability as the witless pack animals are too busy smelling each other’s rears and competing to maintain the pace set by the lead lapdogs.
None of those poodles would have any idea which facilities foreign governments have on their wish-list, or real importance of those facilities. They are all far more interested in rummaging through Mom and Dad’s Chester draws looking for toys and treats. Even the front doors of NORAD would be left wide-open if they thought they could get inside without any public knowledge or uproar. They would set it up as a day care center with a dirty line to stream cartoons for their dozens of illegitimate children, along with a nappy service.
–
Violence and Language and War
The Kremlin has thousands of school children building drones for the military.
In return children can receive bonus points in their final school exams. Perpetuating false beliefs upon students through teaching strategies that ignore or distort evidence to fit the ideological requirements demanded by military and Kremlin officials.
School children are taught to use coded language that hides the military application and ignores the fact that their participation leads directly to the deaths of innocent civilians. Coded language also prepares children to adopt military language and secrecy.
If the “bears” are being defended from “bees”, perhaps the bears have been trying to steal “honey” that does not belong to the bears, but rather to the bees instead.
(The term “bees” also dehumanizes the targets and minimizes the consequences of actions.)
‘https://theins.ru/en/inv/283351
Russian drones hunt down civilians in what’s called a “human safari.”
https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/06/17/russia-uses-drones-to-target-civilians-in-alarming-development
“Double-tap” strikes are used to target those who try to help.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/06/europe/russian-drones-hunt-civilians-kherson-latam-intl
Putin had been coveting Ukrainian territory since 1994.
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2025/08/06/a-justified-perception-of-russian-interests
ResearcherZero • August 10, 2025 9:32 AM
@Clive
A good dose of Avian Flu would wipe out any “savings” many times over.
The buffoons are looking through archives for conspiracy, happily ignoring reality. It may be keeping them busy, as it is hard to extrapolate what would happen if they got their hands on real intelligence that mattered. Either way, the outcome will be/is detrimental.
God knows how many billions are being wasted by de-funding aid, research and the many other departments and measures which mitigate, prepare for, or respond to disaster and disease. We survived the suppression of the works of Copernicus, and many an apocalypse, but the technology of those times lacked significantly less megatons, flight capability and speed.
They are now trying to hire back people for weather services. Perhaps someone told the White House how important weather conditions are when attempting to intercept ICBMs?
(or that private commercial replacement services do not exist, and a lot of important intelligence comes from sources such as satellites and other methods/facilities?)
It makes sense that if you are going to participate in disaster, war crimes or human rights violations, ensuring such matters are not investigated is very important. Getting rid of many other investigative capabilities is also important to avoid accountability and any record of the thousands of cock-ups made by blindly acting on one’s own ignorant beliefs.
The latest grand total from “DOGE savings” of course continues to be total tosh.
‘https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doge-claims-slashing-costs-cbs-news-analysis/
Tens of thousands of metric tonnes of aid may go (is going) to waste.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2025/aug/02/vast-supplies-of-us-aid-remain-stranded-despite-st/
Hundreds of thousands of boxes of food, already paid for, sat there all year.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/27/politics/usaid-contracts-children-food-aid
lurker • August 10, 2025 3:03 PM
AirTags to track the kids? Instagram Maps might be easier. Early reports emphasise this is an opt-in feature, but it is not clear if it could be locked on in the “Child Phone” settings.
‘https://techcrunch.com/2025/08/08/how-to-use-instagram-map-and-protect-your-privacy/
not important • August 10, 2025 3:53 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/16/the-new-mi6-chief-is-no-diversity-hire/
=Ms Metreweli will take up her new post as C in September. In the letters game that is Britain’s intelligence services, she currently holds the title of Q, short for quartermaster,
in charge of developing MI6’s technical capabilities – basically of making spying gadgets. It is worth noting that under her watch, the BBC was given unique access to Hanslope Park in Buckinghamshire, where MI6’s science laboratories are based.=
She looks very hot due to her Eastern European decent.
Winter • August 11, 2025 1:28 AM
@ResearcherZero
A good dose of Avian Flu would wipe out any “savings” many times over.
Tens of thousands of metric tonnes of aid may go (is going) to waste.
I think this is not about waste or money at all. It is about sick and tired of people looking for a damn hand out! as former GOP mayor Tim Boyd of Colorado City explained GOP policy objectives so clear and explicitly.
When his people were freezing to death due to a statewide failure of the Texas power grid, Tim Boyd wrote:
“If you were sitting at home in the cold because you have no power and are sitting there waiting for someone to come rescue you because your lazy is direct result of your raising! Only the strong will survive and the week will perish.”
(emphasis mine)
USAID was a poster child of an institution for letting the weak survive. Killing USAID is then just following this policy goal of letting the weak perish.
ResearcherZero • August 11, 2025 1:48 AM
@Winter
Mayor Tim sounds like a lovely a guy. He is right of course. All of the old folks, regardless of ability, should have dug themselves out of the snow and dragged themselves through sub-zero temperatures by their fingernails! Straight down the middle of the highway if necessary. Up Tim’s front path. Onto Tim’s porch and into Tim’s house. Once Tim’s home was was ablaze, they could all warm their frostbitten limbs around the fire.
There is a lot of good firewood in stately homes, much of it unnecessarily wasted. The owners often carry extra weight on the rump that could be sliced off and nicely roasted. I have heard that the more money it has, the batter the flavor and texture of the cut. The people should get out there and start eating, before ‘The Fat’ all runs out one day soon.
Consumers may pay the cost of data center driven increases in electricity bills.
‘https://www.thecooldown.com/green-business/ai-energy-demand-electricity-gpt-3-power/
Arizona locals in Tucson have blocked an Amzaon–linked project over concerns of water use.
https://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/080625_project_blue/tucson-city-council-pulls-plug-amazons-project-blue/
Winter • August 11, 2025 2:22 AM
@ResearcherZero
Mayor Tim sounds like a lovely a guy. He is right of course.
So is the conviction of the current administration, and MAGA in general.
RFK heads the Health department with a solid eugenicist conviction that without medical aid, the strong will survive and the weak will perish [1]. And so he is making this eugenicist’s dream come true, eg, by chosing cancer’s side in the war against cancer.
I think that in the eyes of the MAGA leadership, the weak voted en mass for their own culling, which is all the proof they need for actually executing this policy (pun intended).
[1] ‘https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/rfk-jr-hhs-eugenics
ResearcherZero • August 11, 2025 2:42 AM
water security
While the Tuscon project named Project Blue was halted, elsewhere in Texas massive data centers are being constructed while Texas continues to suffer through a drought.
Texas data centers will use 49 billion gallons of water in 2025. This could rise to 399 billion gallons by 2030. (A cubic kilometer of water equals about 264 billion gallons.)
The water consumed is drawn from aquifers and from other local community water supplies. In order to maintain fresh drinking water availability, hundreds of billions in investment will be needed over the next decade for fresh-water infrastructure and storage in the U.S.
‘https://texasscorecard.com/state/texas-data-centers-thirst-for-water-challenging-state-infrastructure/
Data centers may consume the equivalent of an entire communities’ water consumption.
https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/data-centers-and-water-consumption
In some regions, water consumption has doubled each year, along with growing energy demand.
https://www.tspr.org/2025-07-21/data-centers-water-electricity-growing-usage
“We had a breakthrough last night. I’d like to tell you about it.”
We’re sorry
But you’re no longer needed
Or wanted
Or even cared about here
Machines can do a better job than you
This is what you get for asking questions
The unions agree
‘Sacrifices must be made’
Computers never go on strike
To save the working man you’ve got to put him out to pasture
Looks like we’ll have to let you go
Doesn’t it feel fulfilling to know
That you-the human being-are now obsolete
And there’s nothing in hell we’ll let you do about it
‘https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdCAQ7yoKdc
ResearcherZero • August 11, 2025 3:38 AM
@Winter
I have the privilege of burying one of my close friends tomorrow who was consumed by cancer. She was very tough, much like many of the people I know who died slowly and in terrible agony, despite being prescribed large amounts of very strong pain killers. A good number of those chaps were military veterans who saw some of the toughest conditions fighting in the Pacific, often behind enemy lines as part of special operations. Fighting in combat, so that the likes of RFK Jr could powder his nose and get drunk in peace. The problem with comfort is that it made the likes of Robert Jr selfish and soft in the head.
Those suffering the ravages of cancer do not have the choice of taking painkillers. It is thrust upon them to stem the pain of very real suffering that cannot be escaped by choice.
I would assume that cancer does not care how tough or strong people are and that RFK Jr and his friends are imbeciles, fools, idiots and morons who deliberately choose to be both stupid and cruel. The choice to behave in such a way demonstrates considerable cowardice. They choose to hide behind conspiracy to avoid difficult and uncomfortable choices. They choose not to help and to exploit the misery of others instead for personal gain.
Choices shape perception. Perception shapes beliefs. Beliefs shape the actions to leech off of and harm others in-spite of their vast opportunities of undeserved wealth and comfort.
Now surviving veterans would like to enjoy some rest without being molested by RFK Jr and his pals playing with Veterans Affairs and removing access to health care from those who actually did a hard day’s work and also served their country and their community. All the others who are suffering deserve help and assistance, not the cruelty and mockery of fools.
Perhaps only once the repercussions of people’s selfish decisions unfold, will they grasp what brought about the first two World Wars, the Great Depression and mass unemployment.
Ignoring the suffering of others always has a cost. Upon all. A cost born seventh fold.
Winter • August 11, 2025 3:42 AM
@ResearcherZero
In order to maintain fresh drinking water availability, hundreds of billions in investment will be needed over the next decade for fresh-water infrastructure and storage in the U.S.
I see a soundbite from the past:
Let them drink Aquafina
Winter • August 11, 2025 5:08 AM
@ResearcherZero
I would assume that cancer does not care how tough or strong people are and that RFK Jr and his friends are imbeciles, fools, idiots and morons who deliberately choose to be both stupid and cruel. The choice to behave in such a way demonstrates considerable cowardice.
I am sorry for you and your friend(s). Treating cancer as a sign of “weakness” is totally nuts and devious. It is an offshoot of the old “disease is the punishment of god” doctrines.
Eugenetica and Social Darwinisms are the closest you can get to psychopathy until you make the final step. It is simply human husbandry, treating humans like cattle or pigs.
But this is basically what White Supremacy or Christian Nationalism [1] boil down to, treating other humans like cattle in a breeding program.
[1] Actually, Christian Nationalism is a contradiction in terms. You cannot be a follower of Jesus and be a Nationalist in this exclusionary meaning.
‘https://www.mercurynews.com/2025/02/03/letters-christian-nationalism-contradiction-terms/
WE ARE BEING BRED FOR SLAVERY • August 11, 2025 11:05 AM
“It is simply human husbandry, treating humans like cattle or pigs.”
I want a pig penis in my vagina.
lurker • August 11, 2025 2:03 PM
@ResearcherZero, Winter
All the water used in Texas by AI/Data centers won’t stop flash floods.
lurker • August 12, 2025 12:24 AM
AOL will end its Dial-up service September 30
‘https://help.aol.com/articles/dial-up-internet-to-be-discontinued
lurker • August 12, 2025 12:28 AM
When you’re making an AI/LLM for a 22 human languge environment you need clean data.
“Coarse quality data, is available. But that data is not of very high quality, it needs filtering,” says Professor Bhattacharyya.
“The issue in India is for many Indian languages, especially tribal and regional dialects, this data simply doesn’t exist or is not digitised.”
Clive Robinson • August 12, 2025 7:02 AM
@ Bruce, ALL,
This should raise a smile and with luck it will go well,
Man sues Microsoft over forced Win 11 upgrade.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/11/microsoft_sued_over_premature_windows/
“Californian man so furious about forced Windows 11 upgrade that he’s suing Microsoft
He wants Microsoft to keep supporting Windows 10 until its market share drops below 10%”
Whilst this might at first appear to be a little optimistic “for a win” people need to consider what costs Microsoft’s policy is forcing on people.
For instance there are a great many computers currently in use that can not upgrade to Win 11 because of a needless change that puts Microsoft in “ownership” of your computer.
Then if you can not afford the needless hardware upgrade you have the choice of paying a forced ransom year by year.
Or you have to give all your private data to Microsoft as well as for some people who only have mobile internet paying a vast fortune to the Telco’s.
My hope is the judge as you say in the US,
“Tears Microsoft a new one”
Because it will set what is basic consumer rights you get for just about anything other than software.
So here’s to hoping for the man in California’s success.
Jason • August 12, 2025 7:36 AM
Interested in some peer reviews of this one:
ResearcherZero • August 13, 2025 2:52 AM
@winter, lurker
If you are going to screw things up, you might as well go the whole hog.
Russia is suspected to be behind a breach of federal court system.
‘https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/russia-federal-court-system-hack-b2806441.html
The breach of CM/ECF and PACER could expose confidential informants.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/06/federal-court-filing-system-pacer-hack-00496916
Pam Bondi disbanded the Foreign Influence Task Force which investigates such matters.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/bondi-ends-fbi-effort-combat-foreign-influence-us-politics-rcna191012
Exploiting the international judicial system…
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/in-depth-research-reports/report/russia-s-interference-in-the-us-judiciary-2/
ResearcherZero • August 13, 2025 2:56 AM
If you remove the battery from an electronic safe you may find a port which can be used to retrieve a special unlock code with the right attachment and software. Or six 9s may do it.
Securam locks are prohibited for government use as they contain a backdoor.
Liberty Safe, Fort Knox, High Noble, FireKing, Tracker, ProSteel, Rhino Metals, Sun Welding, Corporate Safe Specialists, Cennox and NarcSafe – all use Securam ProLogic.
‘https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-urges-ncsc-to-warn-public-about-backdoor-codes-to-commercial-locks-and-safes
An ulock code allowed FBI agents to open safes to gain evidence.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/business/liberty-safe-codes.html
ResearcherZero • August 13, 2025 3:20 AM
@Winter
RE: You cannot be a follower of Jesus and be a Nationalist in this exclusionary meaning.
One might imagine their should be a rejection of a bunch of crooks bestowing upon themselves God-like powers and pronouncing themselves above the basic tenants of the Bible, along with the laws of the land and any accountability for intentional law-breaking.
Apart from the penetration of law enforcement by foreign nation state-backed actors, what do people think happens when individuals who engage in predatory behaviour and predatory business practices, gain power over an entire nation? Individuals who would treat the public purse and government resources as their own personal piggy bank, along with law enforcement agencies, the DoJ, and the mechanisms of the courts and the legal system.
(Hail Warning]
Stacking the justice system to escape any accountability.
(Unitary Executive Theory allows for the potential of a unitary executive to be an autocratic executive and corrupt the entire system. Tearing out any internal checks and balances, while perverting the mechanisms of government to solely serve the executive for its own private gain, purpose and pleasure. A system that no longer serves the public.)
‘https://time.com/7305987/donald-trump-supreme-court-justices/
The majority of legal proceedings receive very little independent scrutiny.
https://www.criminallegalnews.org/news/2023/mar/15/power-prosecutor-america-abuse-misconduct-unaccountability-and-miscarriages-justice/
… prosecutorial misconduct “is reprehensible, warranting criminal prosecution as well as disbarment” ~ Supreme Court
Simple and effective methods to deter misconduct, or convict those who engage in it, are yet to be implemented. Criminal conviction for prosecutorial misconduct cannot occur without first establishing the requirements necessary to achieve successful conviction.
Prosecutorial misconduct is widespread and systemic, with few ever subjected to disciplinary action. This leaves prosecutors largely unaccountable, as their colleagues are very reluctant to turn in their colleagues or impose a penalty for breach of standards.
https://innocenceproject.org/news/judges-mostly-agree-on-most-problematic-prosecutorial-misconduct-but-that-doesnt-translate-to-accountability/
ResearcherZero • August 13, 2025 5:34 AM
To get a good fit, you need to revisit the tailor.
If you want to work for the Oval Office or the West Wing, you need an outfit that gives the appearance you are a country bumpkin who never wore a suit before. I would refer you to a tailor, but the name for the establishment is extremely offensive and may put you off from visiting the premises. Like the monthly job figures, you may not like it.
“Economic data is frequently revised — especially as more comprehensive information becomes readily available — to provide a clearer, more accurate picture of the dynamics in play.”
Revisiting and refining are just the nature of ensuring a suit fits your flab properly.
Or abandoning stupid decisions entirely.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/12/economy/antoni-bls-mulls-suspending-jobs-report
Like squeezing into a size six, rigging jobs figures would be extremely difficult.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-bls-jobs-report-data-0f0a81b9c9320359370976a529c5c9e3
–
Data brokers hide pages from search results that allow you to delete your personal data.
‘https://themarkup.org/privacy/2025/08/12/we-caught-companies-making-it-harder-to-delete-your-data
Clive Robinson • August 13, 2025 7:54 AM
@ ResearcherZero, Winter,
With regards,
“what do people think happens when individuals who engage in predatory behaviour and predatory business practices, gain power over an entire nation?”
There is that old saying of,
“Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
That most english speakers have probably heard, and other languages have their equivalent including the Latin that Cisero spoke before Jesus was allegedly born.
One of his views translates to,
“This excessive licence, which the anarchists think is the only true freedom, provides the stock, as it were, from which a tyrant grows.”
The simple fact is those that behave in this way are not the sanist of people and what is known as the “black triad of personality” is now upto at least five distinct profiles including Machiavellism and Spitefulness on top of the original psychopathy, narcism, sadism (that have all changed their meanings in recent times).
But what many do not realise is,
“Mathematically there can be no democracy.”
All voting systems are actually chaotic in nature and this is one of the reasons “two party” systems fairly rapidly develop this includes all the various “proportional representation” systems.
The trick if you want power is to convince the minority party that either they support you or you will destroy them by splitting their voter base.
There is a Veritasium video,
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qf7ws2DF-zk
that goes into just some of the “there can be no democracy” maths, and Arrow’s theorem (that got him a faux Nobel ie in economics).
It also explains why when there are only two parties it is beneficial to be extremely divisive to the other party. Yet as the number of candidates rises “playing nice” is seen as the most beneficial behaviour.
boom • August 13, 2025 6:32 PM
What is kratom 7-OH? Why RFK and health officials are cracking down
https://www.livenowfox.com/news/kratom-7-ban-fda-rfk
Clive Robinson • August 14, 2025 5:37 AM
@ boom,
With regards,
“Why RFK and health officials are cracking down”
Because the long standing evidence is that even though “7-OH” molecules have useful CNS blocking abilities they also have associated issues such as hallucinations and respiratory failure issues.
Even the natural form has issues much like the chewing of coco-leaf.
The real question should be why the US as a first world nation is having serious issues often worse than third world nations and how much it is directly related to the affordability / availability of primary and secondary health care for the likes of “work related injury”.
All CNS blocking is not a treatment for injury it just masks the symptoms…
As US doctors will tell you off the record insurance based healthcare will pay top dollar for CNS blocking pharmaceuticals that are ineffective for treating work related injury but won’t pay for the likes of physiotherapy or corrective surgery.
Much of this is related to the FDA and it’s rules which are notably different to other first world nations.
Oh and also look up the connection with the falling age that people die at on average in the US and why it’s over a decade less than other 1st world nations in Europe. And then compare it to the rising age of death in the upper 1% of the US population which is broadly similar to the best average in North and West European nations.
ResearcherZero • August 14, 2025 5:43 AM
@Clive
Trump happy to sell advanced chips to China in return for 15% of the proceeds, even if the chips will undoubtedly flow to the Chinese military and further erode any U.S. advantage.
‘https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/trumps-unusual-nvidia-deal-raises-new-corporate-national-security-risks-2025-08-12/
Trump says he had never heard of Nvidia. (a species of magical unicorn)
But everyone can buy a poultry share in the Trump/Witkoff family meme coin holdings.
https://fortune.com/crypto/2025/08/11/world-liberty-financial-1-5-billion-alt5-sigma-alts-crypto-treasury-company-trump/
Clive Robinson • August 14, 2025 12:47 PM
@ ResearcerZero, Winter, ALL
As an extension on my comment above on the impossibility of democracy as indicated by Arrow’s theorem,
It appears that Internet social media likewise “can not be social” either, and that all the proposed prosocial intervention models fail,
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2508.03385
“Social media platforms have been widely linked to societal harms, including rising polarization and the erosion of constructive debate. Can these problems be mitigated through prosocial interventions? We address this question using a novel method – generative social simulation – that embeds Large Language Models within Agent-Based Models to create socially rich synthetic platforms. We create a minimal platform where agents can post, repost, and follow others. We find that the resulting following-networks reproduce three well-documented dysfunctions: (1) partisan echo chambers; (2) concentrated influence among a small elite; and (3) the amplification of polarized voices – creating a ‘social media prism’ that distorts political discourse. We test six proposed interventions, from chronological feeds to bridging algorithms, finding only modest improvements – and in some cases, worsened outcomes. These results suggest that core dysfunctions may be rooted in the feedback between reactive engagement and network growth, raising the possibility that meaningful reform will require rethinking the foundational dynamics of platform architecture.”
Winter • August 14, 2025 1:40 PM
@Clive
“Mathematically there can be no democracy.”
Probably because the wrong definition is used.
First of all, no human institution is eternal. The fact that some communities change their governing systems around between tyranny, dictatorship, and democracy and everything in between does not prove anything.
Then about definitions. Karl Popper defined democracy as the system where the people can, and do, send home the rulers peacefully to replace them by others.
That’s as good a definition as any other. It has the advantage that it is entirely observable and useful for the people concerned.
Such systems have been known to be practiced for a century and more in several countries over history. Four generations seems to be enough to count as “existing”. All these countries used procedures involving voting of one kind or another.
Counter arguments against “real” Democracy tend to revolve around ideals of perfection, perfect equality, perfect rules, perfect stability, or perfect execution. But nothing human made is perfect.
Clive Robinson • August 14, 2025 3:53 PM
@ Winter,
With regards,
“Probably because the wrong definition is used”
The same can more axxurately be said about the Karl Popper quote you give.
That is it entirely misses the point of how a democratic process is formed by a voting process not as the Popper quote describes is what you do “after the vote”.
What Arrow demonstrated is that all voting systems are not consistent in the vote outcome. And in one case the result depends on the order you count the votes.
But the simplest case to see why there is a problem is when there are three or more ranked choices it devolves into the equivalent of a form of a game of “Rock, Paper, scissors”.
Many voting systems actually give different outcomes for the same votes particularly egregious are “transferable vote” systems.
Either look up the Wikipedia article or go have a read of,
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/arrows-theorem/
(For some reason I oft end up using “plato” in preference to Wikipedia…)
Clive Robinson • August 14, 2025 11:50 PM
@ Winter,
I know you have replied because I can see part of it on the 100 Comments page as being comment,
However as of 04:40 on this page it’s not showing despite a couple of page reloads.
This is not the first time I’ve seen this issue…
But I still don’t know where the problem is, with the three main possibilities being,
1, The blog hosting server.
2, A network provider cache.
3, The browser on the client device.
I’ll have another look later.
Winter • August 15, 2025 12:10 AM
@Clive
I know you have replied because I can see part of it on the 100 Comments page as being comment,
I did write a reply and I cannot find it either. Maybe something tripped a content filter?
The grist of it was, that the crux of democracy is the peaceful transfer of power after the people decide the current administration should go. Everything else is details.
There is no decision mechanism that cannot be corrupted or subverted. We saw it happening with every voting system, even the selection of ruling “committee” by lottery has been subverted.
But then, monarchy and tyrannies have been subverted into democracies too.
Clive Robinson • August 15, 2025 5:56 AM
@ Winter,
“There is no decision mechanism that cannot be corrupted or subverted. We saw it happening with every voting system…”
In essence Arrow’s theorm gives the logical reasons as to why people can not come up with voting systems that can actually be shown to represent a majority correctly.
I remember when I was young spotting similar when proportional representation was first keenly suggested as better than “First past the post” on a “ward by ward”[1] basis. It clearly fails and worse can be used to keep the “old guard” in power even if people want them out and “new blood” in.
Historically many people have tried to come up with “fair vote” systems and they all have failings in some way and from Arrow’s theorem they always will do no matter what you try.
In the US the common trick used to “put in the fix” being “Gerrymandering” where you don’t put the fix in on the actual voting process, but by “divide and conquer” techniques used on the actual voters in any ward by manipulating ward boundaries. Or by using colleges of electors, with the reason given for their existence nolonger applying in the modern world except for “putting in a fix”.
Thus arguably any voting process can and inevitably will lead to “civil disruption” or “Civil disobedience” as voters see no other way to have their views represented.
It’s why some have resorted to the “First against the wall” with “lead shot voting system”.
The only constant that appears true is,
“Those that have a desire for power are in most cases the least suitable people for the job”.
And the reason for that is we’ve still not resolved the fundamental issues of “hierarchies”…
[1] Not sure what your term for a “Ward” would be. Loosely it’s each geographical place where approximately equal numbers of voters live. A representative is voted for as an individual independently of other wards and political parties influence on the outcome (just potential representatives names go on the ballot paper).
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