New Patent Application for Car-to-Car Surveillance
Ford has a new patent application for a system where cars monitor each other’s speeds, and then report then to some central authority.
Slashdot thread.
Comments
cybershow • August 5, 2024 7:48 AM
Nobody likes speeders who kill other road users, but why do I feel
this is probably just another egregious, non-consensual commandeering
of private property to steal “telemetry” data by another already
too-powerful company bypassing democratic oversight?
Winter • August 5, 2024 8:06 AM
Some numbers for the USA might make this idea somewhat better understandable
All numbers for 2020 (USA, 331M inhabitants) [1]
Total number of traffic fatalities:
38,824
Speeding related:
11,258
Alcohol Impaired driving:
11,654
Unrestrained Passenger Vehicle Occupants
(ie, passenger does not wear safety belt):
10,893
Compare with EU (EU 27 448M inhabitants) [2]
Total number of traffic fatalities (2020):
18,800
So, traffic fatalities are a preventable death cause that could be improved.
[1] ‘https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/2020-traffic-crash-data-fatalities
See link 2020 annual traffic crash data
[2] ‘https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/european-road-safety-observatory/data-and-analysis/latest-key-figures_en
See link Data table – number of road deaths and rate per million population, EU and EFTA countries, 2010-2022 (updated October 2023)
wiredog • August 5, 2024 8:37 AM
” a system where cars monitor each other’s speeds, and then report then to some central authority.”
I took the unusual step of actually reading the patent claims and it’s pretty clear that the car doing the monitoring and reporting would be a police car. That is, not every car would be monitoring and reporting, but only police cars would.
Essentially it would turn police cars into mobile speed cameras.
Gary • August 5, 2024 9:19 AM
More of the nanny state…. I think we already have enough surveillance in individuals in this country. Ford needs to work more on their quality control and possibly the autonomous cars or Hydrogen fuel cars and less on helping the gov. spying on people.
Clive Robinson • August 5, 2024 9:21 AM
@ ALL,
Whilst I don’t doubt that the patent is what it says it is…
Patents by big companies are all to often “Market Control” for Monopolistic or Cartel reasons. In the case of start-ups it’s,
“Kill the competition.”
Or with bigger Corporates to “tax the competition” or “trade favours with the competition” over their patent portfolios.
So keep that in the back of your mind when walking down the,
“Show me the money path.”
But importantly if you want to get in on the “Patent Game” a piece of advice.
Most Western Nations/Federations have not just maxed out their “personal taxation” ability they are nolonger able to tax anything above small businesses as “Corporates are Off-Shore” in oh so many tax avoidance ways.
So where is a Government going to get the money to bribe voters with?
Well we’ve already seen swingeing cut backs on all but big corporate hand outs so society is already starting to collapse. We’ve seen this in various “social support” etc. As @JonKnowsKnothing has pointed out several times the “supposed benefits” remain, but are “means tested” beyond availability in various ways much the same as US health care at something like six times price of equivalent other nations healthcare, and with an effectiveness in many cases on par with third-world healthcare in outcomes.
So about the only thing left is to turn the population into low grade Crimnals, to raise money via “Fines and Confiscations”.
So anyone who thinks up a way to “automate criminalisation” which this patent clearly is, are preparing to make money off of “Fines and Confiscations”
Oh and when the “fines and Confiscations” well runs dry, and it will do, ask yourself,
“Where will they get the money next?”
Because that has the opportunity to be another gold mine for someone holding a patent or hundred as leverage.
But think carefully, primary patents on “methods” rarely pay as they are in effect “before their time” it’s secondary patents on “applications” where the primary patents have been applied to technology that is “in the market or about to be” where the money is to be made.
yet another bruce • August 5, 2024 9:50 AM
In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, I imagine a rich model of everything an autonomous vehicle must consider as it navigates a route through the environment – lane markings, potholes, road debris, coefficient of friction, moose density, etc. It makes sense that vehicles would propose updates to the model based on observations. Think of V2V Waze. It might make sense to model vehicles also. Existing standards define ways for vehicles to share their position and velocity with other vehicles. It might be useful to share observations about third parties- truck X has a poorly secured load, sedan Y is driving erratically, etc.
This framework presents all kinds of privacy concerns. Maybe the Great Model in the Cloud should be a data fiduciary.
Snarki, child of Loki • August 5, 2024 11:39 AM
One car accessory that I’ve wanted is a video system that can be used to “report” other drivers doing dangerous illegal stuff.
Push a button, and a video clip is kept, analyzed for license plate info, then sent to an appropriate place.
Not to the cops. To the insurance company that covers the car. Attaching video and a note “do you REALLY want to be on the hook for this jerk?”
More likely to get a useful result, I think.
Andy • August 5, 2024 1:21 PM
It’s sad what passes for innovation or novelty at Ford or Patent Office
Dave • August 5, 2024 2:50 PM
If this goes live, I hope that’s the last time anyone buys a Ford.
Daniel Popescu • August 5, 2024 3:39 PM
Hmm…This might be a bit too much: “Accordingly, the systems and methods described herein are equally applicable to any of various other types of traffic violations including for example, improper lane changes, rash driving, driving with an expired license, driving with no registration, driving under the influence, etc.”. We all know or can speculate what this phrase presumes and requires.
Tim • August 5, 2024 5:23 PM
As noted in the comments on the Slashdot thread, the application is for law enforcement vehicles not general public vehicles. I’m not sure how much that eases the privacy concerns, however.
ratwithahat • August 5, 2024 5:47 PM
Even more data that can be sold to anyone who wants it… Great for your insurance company, but not for you!
Honestly, not sure what the purpose is when all new-ish cars can track and transmit their own speeds. Only thing I can think of is that they want to be able to get (and make money of off) data from people who are driving older cars or cars from other brands.
Most of you are probably too young to remember, but this sounds like the old Soviet Union, where people (including neighbors and family members) spied on each other for the State.
Eriadilos • August 6, 2024 11:48 AM
@Winter
Re: Fatalities US v EU
I think an important factor in fatalities is also mass of the vehicle, as well as height of the hood in case of collision with a pedestrian.
Cars are getting larger in europe but nothing compared to the US :
Most popular vehicules in the US 2023 :
1. Ford F-150, dimensions 5685x2004x1903
2. Chevrolet silverado, dimensions 5842x2020x1870
Most popular vehicles in europe :
1. Tesla model Y, dimensions 4 751 x 1 921 x 1 624
2. Renault Clio, dimensions 4 053 x 1 798 x 1 439
ResearcherZero • August 7, 2024 3:30 AM
CPO has allocated about $28 billion of the total $39 billion toward leading-edge fabs.
‘https://thediplomat.com/2024/08/the-us-chips-act-2-years-later/
APT41 stole passwords and documentsfrom a Taiwanese government-affiliated research center.
https://blog.talosintelligence.com/chinese-hacking-group-apt41-compromised-taiwanese-government-affiliated-research-institute-with-shadowpad-and-cobaltstrike-2/
“China’s SMIC has been able to produce the 7 nm chip for well over a year using multi-patterning, but only in limited quantities.”
‘https://www.csis.org/analysis/contextualizing-national-security-concerns-over-chinas-domestically-produced-high-end-chip
“What we see when we pop that chip open is not a scary future, but a tiny white elephant bathed in deep ultraviolet.”
It doesn’t use the 13.5nm wavelength EUV lithography process to print the patterns on wafers that make them into circuits. China’s half-inched TSMC process cannot scale because, most likely, it doesn’t have all the specialist expertise and tools that turn the process into products.
https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/01/column_7nm_chips_china/
“2 nm processors used in cell phones could quadruple the battery life”
(wafer built at IBM Research’s semiconductor research facility in Albany, NY)
ResearcherZero • August 7, 2024 5:17 AM
Economic growth requires advancements in production and technology.
Ubiquitous incorporation of technology leads to a reduction in privacy.
Other alternatives, such as improvements in privacy legislation, are complicated by a lack of political consensus, intense lobbying, and an imperfect legal system stacked by ideologically aligned justices — with little knowledge of the areas that their decisions will ultimately address. This system proceeds at a slower pace than technological advance.
Many legislators lack the expertise or incentive to act on expert advice in a timely and prudent manner. They are too often preoccupied with regional elections, short term polls or providing trivial answers to public concerns, rather than taking the advice of experts.
When legislators do listen to experts, lobbyists will undermine much of that advice.
The reason for this state of affairs is that people often make choices and decisions based on what they think other people want them to make, rather than informed or expert advice.
Humans are social creatures which make judgements about the world based on gossip from within their social groups. What people gossip about is what they think others may want them to say, in order to fit into their perception of the group.
Our reasoning and view of the world is poorly informed, just as our judgements of others are often very inaccurate. With or without dubious youtube videos and social media.
However, if you install me as your God Emperor, I promise to act mostly in good faith. 😉
Uaf • August 7, 2024 7:33 PM
@Clive Robinson
Agreed, likely an attempt to block tech that ford fears reduce might impact shareholder value if their products can no longer rat run down neighbourhood streets.
Sounds like a lot of existing devices already on the market or raspberrypi projects
David in Toronto • August 8, 2024 11:01 PM
Re: the Ford F-150 and Silverado
For comparison the Sherman Tank was 5842 x 2615 x 2743
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Acros the pond • August 5, 2024 7:22 AM
The patent mentions that it’s for law enforcement vehicles. Patrol cars that can measure another’s does not seem new to me. It’s a nice feature that it can be done without radar.
Now the technique would allow citizens cars to do the same weather that happens is more up to politicians than Ford.