Comments

VinnyGOctober 31, 2018 8:49 AM

Have only skimmed the report, but an interesting picture has already emerged. There appears to be a somewhat negative correlation between the states that are widely perceived to be conservative in the traditional sense, and as a result to gravitate more toward the liberty of the individual than toward the ubiquitous power of central government, and the states that appear to be dragging their collective feet on the wholesale abdication of privacy that is represented by pervasive identification systems. One suspects that TPTB in those states were ever only pandering to liberty and privacy rights, and were always looking for a wedge issue to justify instituting such systems. That wedge issue is, of course, immigration.

Sancho_POctober 31, 2018 8:57 AM

”A national identity system works against the interests of free people and a free society in several ways.” (Jim Harper)

A European I’m flabbergasted by that simplified (American?) view.
What is the difference between a national ID, a statewide ID, a district-wide, a clan-wide or, in the extreme, a family-wide ID?
Questioning a personal ID (+ civil register) because of privacy concerns allows any- and everybody to access my bank account?
Count me out here.

A violation of privacy occures when my data is used against my personal interest.
That should be fairly simple.
If the legislation here is diffuse we should work on that part.

PseudonOctober 31, 2018 9:38 AM

@Sancho P,

Violations of privacy do occur when my data is used against my interest, but that is all but inevitable when my data is collected unnecessarily or aggregated unnecessarily.

In the U.S., local birth and death certificates are typically required, and most people have to repot income for taxes. but in general no one is required to have or carry ID. A passport is only needed to go *to* other countries. A state Driver's License is only required if you want to drive. A county voter registration is only required if you want to vote.

When disparate sources of personal data are accessed or aggregated by an increasingly authoritarian government, the concerns are valid. Especially valid when the forms of data are increasingly personal... federal DNA and Facial Recognition and other biometric databases, federalized Driver's License databases (REAL ID), geolocation tracking via ALPR and other means, etc.

When one identifier is all it takes to retrieve ALL of my personal and behavioral data, the balance of power is shifted tremendously, and the risk of abuse is unacceptable.

vas pupOctober 31, 2018 9:50 AM

That is kind of related to State Power versus Federal power.
I guess States do have a right to issue State Ids and State Driver License as they decided if and only if they are used within the State it issued only, but based on so called Interstate Commerce paradigm (which is so broadly interpreted and applied as e.g. contempt of court, obstruction of justice you name it) Federal authorities could require uniformity of form (including design, biometrics, etc.)of those ids when they are used for identification/driving in other States for ANY interstate purpose. Same applied for design of license plates and I guess Rules of the Roads.
Nobody could know those Rules in all states, subdivisions, cities, etc. I guess particular level of core uniformity through the country should be as well with some local restrictions clearly displayed on the road signs, billboards, etc. E.g. author of the article referred for soviet era IDs paradigm. Then in former ussr Rules of the Road were the same through the whole country in all 15 republics (kind of states). That sounds reasonable - but that is just my opinion based of humble understanding of interstate commerce. As usually, I appreciate any LOGICAL with my point (as this respected blog policy required) and resent personal/emotional
attacks.

Impossibly StupidOctober 31, 2018 10:03 AM

@Sancho_P

What is the difference between . . .

If you don't understand ranges of scope and scale, your educational system has failed you. Perhaps it's simply because countries are so small in Europe.

A violation of privacy occures when my data is used against my personal interest.

And that's a lot easier to do when you have a single ID that is used by everyone. But it's a double-edged sword, because there are people in the world who would very much like knowledge of their criminal "personal interest" to not follow them around as they move from community to community. There is a balance between the local and the global that should be found, but the people in power seem to have no interest in coming up with smart solutions.

ObijanOctober 31, 2018 12:08 PM

This baffles me. Does anybody in this community actually believe that they don't already exist in a federal database?

It seems like the US is working very hard to get worst of both worlds:
- Deep surveillance and lack of privacy (Insert a dozen links to NSA abuses here)
- No identity protection. Teenagers wanting to get drunk, fraudsters can easily fake an existing identity of make up a new one.


> If you don't understand ranges of scope and scale, your educational system has failed you. Perhaps it's simply because countries are so small in Europe.

I don't know if it is the failing US education system or the daily military grade propaganda that makes claims like this be the standard reply, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

The EU is 508 million people, which is like a USA and a half,... and they have the ID system figured out. The average EU country has more people than the average US state.


>But it's a double-edged sword, because there are people in the world who would very much like knowledge of their criminal "personal interest" to not follow them around as they move from community to community.

Yes, they are called "fleeing criminals".
Are you seriously suggesting that laws shouldn't apply to you whenever you move?

ACommenterOctober 31, 2018 12:20 PM

This paper supports one of my theories: that a system developed to keep track of "bad guys" will eventually be used on everybody.

So watch out what we propose to keep track of the bad guys.

GenieOctober 31, 2018 12:38 PM

REAL ID Act. That federal law, passed in 2005, seeks to subject state drivers’ licensing to federal data collection and information-sharing standards that will facilitate identification and tracking.

State promotion of the [federal] E-Verify background check system,

It's the Brady Bill ban list. Another database for population control and disarmament. If you're like a felon, you can't like own a weapon, because we're all like in love and peace and harmony in Silicon Valley, California.

PhaeteOctober 31, 2018 12:47 PM

This article is clearly meant for a USA audience, whether the writer intended it that way or not.

As a European, i wonder is the fake ID abuse by teenagers to get alcohol as rampant as Hollywood has us believe?

Here it is treated as a criminal action and fake ID's are a real rarity.

Jumper CablesOctober 31, 2018 12:48 PM

The synopsis on New Mexico doesn't capture the complications in that state's new two tiered driver's license system. Their new "Driver Authentication Card" can be issued to anyone, including those without a residential address and/or those without a birth certificate. There is also no requirement for a social security number.

So it is possible there to get a state issued ID that does not require a:

birth certificate
residential address
social security number

This ID has "not acceptable for federal purposes" stenciled on its face but it is acceptable for just about everything else. Also I hear that they are not as rigorous about facial items that can thwart biometric identification as they are supposed to be.

So all in all I would consider this to be rather privacy friendly for NM residents who stay away from their RealID compliant license. It will be interesting to see, over time, how many people actually care enough about privacy in that state to get one of them. I suspect that most will be illegal immigrants, the intended audience.

Z.LozinskiOctober 31, 2018 12:58 PM

A different perspective on identity. In recent testimony and evidence to the UK Parliament, on the Government Digital Service (and the digital identity service "Verify" which was under development until cancelled ), Professor Vishanth Weerakkody wrote:


"As the UK does not have a scheme of 'identity', its administrative law does not rely upon one, making the idea of an 'online identity verification' irrelevant as well as conceptually dubious," he wrote.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/30/weerakkody_gds_interview/

An observation on the US voter identity debate - including the "exact match" requirements, from a security perspective. Requiring all of the identity documents that people have to match on name is a fallacy.

The UK passport only has 32 characters for the name field - many people's full name is over 32 characters. Some cultures add names at various life stages. Many people only use a subset of their full name on identity documents, bank account applications etc. for convenience, or because the digital systems that underpin them also have restrictions on number of characters, so you CANNOT use your full name.

GenieOctober 31, 2018 1:05 PM

@Phaete: Here it is treated as a criminal action and fake ID's are a real rarity.

Nothing is a crime unless you try to buy a gun with it. You don't really need such a hard and fast ID for anything else in the U.S.

And it's the "possession" of the firearm they prosecute, not ant actual crimes that may be committed with it.

What were you browsing on the Internet before your arrest for unlawfully attempting to purchase that illegal weapon in violation of federal law? It's all part of the court case, and yes they do publish it on the front page of the New York Times.

DaveOctober 31, 2018 1:35 PM

I'd assumed that e-verify for working was required everywhere.
No wonder there is such a large group of undocumented people living inside the USA.
Not that e-verify is perfect, but it is another barrier to slow abuse of the immigration system.

DaveOctober 31, 2018 2:32 PM

A Passport is the closest thing to a Federal Photo ID in the USA, but only 36% of Americans have one. They just aren't necessary if you don't leave the country.

It isn't like driving from state to state has any sort of border control. There is a change in the road maintenance and a "Welcome to XYZ, Mr. ABCD - Governor" is usually all we see. Sometimes, the speed limit will change, since different states have slightly different laws about that. There isn't any booth or police or border agents.

I think the EU is like that now, but I do remember taking a train from Vienna to Prague. At the border the entire crew changed and we had to show our passports to the Czech conductor. Seemed odd at the time, since they were a member of the EU. Don't remember anything like that anywhere else in the EU, but my experience there is fairly limited, maybe 20 trips over the years, and most didn't go between different countries except by air.

hermanOctober 31, 2018 2:58 PM

In Canada, states issue a 'non-driving, driver's license' to be used as an ID card, to those who need an ID card but don't drive.

Sancho_POctober 31, 2018 4:28 PM

@Pseudon

”… but that is all but inevitable when my data is collected unnecessarily or aggregated unnecessarily.” (my emph)

Right, that’s exactly what should be targeted, not the (idea of an) ID itself.

Re your ”increasingly authoritarian” and ”increasingly personal”
- OK, likely, but instead of fueling obscure fears
(IMO the introduction of the cited paper seems to try that, probably this is necessary to address the broader public)
a more rational approach would be welcome.
First would be the agreement in illegality of any unauthorized data collection and aggregation, be it private or within gov entities.
Then we could start to officially list which personal data are stored by the gov, where, why, who has intentional access, how transparent is data and access for the individual, how aggregation has to be handled, how the data is protected, how the subject is aware and in control of stored data, and how abuse would be personally sanctioned, also within gov entities.
Full transparency is mandatory for trust, dark lists (e.g. no fly) are hostile to society.

From there we could go on and re-think data collection by private institutions.
However, this is completely unrealistic in our feudal, out-of-control capitalism.

Sancho_POctober 31, 2018 4:32 PM

@Impossibly Stupid

”If you don't understand ranges of scope and scale, your educational system …”
It seems you are unable to explain your educational take in two sentences, are you?

”… it's a double-edged sword …” Hmm, might be another a blind spot here, what’s the problem with having just ‘a single ID’ compared to have, say, three IDs?
Anyway, I fail to find a balance when unidentifiable aliens, probably well known next street, are living next door.

But it’s not only to track the bad guys. I love that I have to show my ID and being registered when accessing my bank vault, regardless of having the (very simple) key to it.
The primary topic here is the nationwide ID for everyone, not the abuse of data.

… Um, naZZion, what a bad term.

regexpOctober 31, 2018 4:40 PM

@ herman

In Canada, states issue a 'non-driving, driver's license' to be used as an ID card, to those who need an ID card but don't drive.

So do every single state in the US. The main issue is that they cost money or a vast amount of time (or both). And in reality - one doesn't need an ID on a regular basis. Most people don't travel. People who live in large cities — many if not don't drive. Many elderly in small towns don't drive.

TõnisOctober 31, 2018 5:44 PM

The United States of America is a union of states. To the citizens of other countries who are confused, think of the individual states as separate countries. Each state has its own constitution. The states have ceded certain limited powers to the federal government as specified in the federal Constitution.

The federal government has no business regulating non-commercial automobile use amongst the several states. Each state issues its own driver's license and registration for its residents. The states have signed reciprocal agreements among each other with respect to honoring each other's licenses and registrations. I have a copy of the comprehensive document listing the particulars of Massachusetts' agreements with the other states insofar as how long an out of state resident can drive within Massachusetts (and vice versa) before he must obtain the state's own license and/or registration. No federal involvement is necessary or desirable. The federal government always tries to usurp authority by claiming that everything involving more than one state is "interstate commerce," but that is nonsense. If I choose to travel with my automobile from one state to another, it has nothing to do with interstate commerce subject to federal regulation.

I don't care what they do in Europe or elsewhere. As an American, I find the concept of a national ID ("Your, papers please!") to be repugnant. Its purveyors are enemies of liberty. Oh, and did I mention I hate banks, too? I don't do business with them and couldn't care less what the concerns of bank users may be.

65535October 31, 2018 5:49 PM

I would have to characterize the U.S. Social Security Number as close it gets to a “national ID” for people in the States.

If you work, bank or tomorrow money you have a Social Security Number which is attached to a “credit score” which leads to a number of intricate databases.

If you attempt to get a military security clearance the first item to be examined is the individuals credit score and by extension Social Security Number. If you have a low credit you are unlikely to get a security clearance even if you pass all other security hurtles. The reason given is that you could be "easily influenced by money payments" to give out classified information.

If you are not interested in a Security Clearance your credit score is only good for borrowing money or other financial reasons.

Honestly, the Social Security number is the true target of credit theft and is generally a pain in the side for most adult Americans. Social Security numbers are used for financial fraud of a wide various sorts. Most US citizen’s valid social security numbers are on the dark web and can be deduced by a number of personal information points and a algorithm.

“researchers at Carnegie Mellon University have demonstrated an algorithm that uses publicly available personal information to reconstruct a given SSN”-Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number#Identity_theft

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identification_number

Social Security Number that start with 8 or 9 in the first position are ITINs and are issued to foreigners or people own need to report some information to the US government. These ITINs also can be used for nefarious purposes.

“ITINs are nine-digit numbers that always begin with the number 9, and include the ranges 900-70-0000 through 999-88-999, 900-90-000 through 999-92-9999 and 900-94-0000 through 999-99-9999.”-Sciarabba Walker and Co LLP

http://swcllp.com/what-is-an-itin/

I would guess that most adult Americans over 45 years old probably have their SSI/ITIN floating about on the web somewhere and it is a real problem. During the 1980s the Social Security Numbers were used as student ID numbers in educational facilities. This SSN as a semi-national ID number dramatically increased the Identify Theft attack surface for most US citizens because the long time span they were in use.

In all the Social Security Number is very abused and should not be given to any person or institution without valid reason to have said SSN.

The US SSN is very troublesome and probably should be replace with another system for privacy and stopping ID, credit card and other types of theft.

Impossibly StupidOctober 31, 2018 6:29 PM

@Obijan

The EU is 508 million people, which is like a USA and a half,... and they have the ID system figured out.

Do they? A link would be appreciated. All I could find was that various EU/EEA countries are working to standardize multiple different kinds of identity documents like health insurance, passports, and driving licenses, but absolutely nothing about a singular "ID system" that ties them all together. Never mind anything about what the UK citizens do or do not have to once they leave.

Are you seriously suggesting that laws shouldn't apply to you whenever you move?

I'm just pointing out that it's a complicated issue if you really think about it. Whether you like it or not, the reality is that the ability to associate an identity with a person (or the failure to do so) has implications. There really are people out there who are "tough on crime" but are very much against "federal database" tracking. Any proposed system would have to reasonably deal with that kind of cognitive dissonance.

@Sancho_P

It seems you are unable to explain your educational take in two sentences, are you?

That doesn't quite parse. But, no, complicated issues generally cannot be fully explained in sound bites.

Anyway, I fail to find a balance when unidentifiable aliens, probably well known next street, are living next door.

Again, that doesn't quite make sense. What is the point you're trying to make with your example? Who should be identifying them? Why? Where I live, the police will arrest (or worse) criminals regardless of whether or not they can be identified. Otherwise, I can't say that I've ever asked to see the ID of anyone that lives near me.

The primary topic here is the nationwide ID for everyone, not the abuse of data.

They go hand in hand. Identity theft has some serious consequences. The abuse of Social Security Numbers in the US is one big reason a lot of people there aren't so eager to see any other kinds of national IDs get rolled out.

GenieOctober 31, 2018 6:49 PM

@65535

If you attempt to get a military security clearance the first item to be examined is the individuals credit score and by extension Social Security Number. If you have a low credit you are unlikely to get a security clearance even if you pass all other security hurtles.

Same same for general non-government civilian for-profit private sector corporate employment. Stable previous employment, good payment history on a thirty-year mortgage, stay-at-home wife, conservative values, gender-appropriate social work ethic, haircut, and various other factors they are too embarrassed to let on they know that much about you before hiring you.

Probably even easier for some folks to get the federal government security clearance because of non-discrimination rules that are rarely enforced outside the context of government employment. The bureaucracy is unbearably stifling and mind-numbing, though.

Clive RobinsonOctober 31, 2018 9:54 PM

@ ACommenter,

So watch out what we propose to keep track of the bad guys.

You forgot the tag line of,

    Because it's the good guys they fear the most...

As has been noted "An honest man can not be blackmailed" or manapulated or made compliant, to the wishes of those "Who hold themselves as first among equals".

Power structures work by the compliance of others, no compliance no power structure to enforce the will of those at the top of the hierarchy. Such compliance can be obtained in many ways few would be considered honest or honourable...

As our host has noted there are some that want the feudalism power structures back to enforce a warped version of life. But it's not just those at the top who have notions of "blood purity" through heredity, there are plenty of dark echo chambers on the Internet[1] where such subjects are lauded. What DNA and similar databases give such people is the records to enforce such feudalistic "cast systems".

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/30/opinion/internet-violence-hate-prejudice.html

Clive RobinsonOctober 31, 2018 10:18 PM

@ Obijan,

This baffles me. Does anybody in this community actually believe that they don't already exist in a federal database?

As a person who is not a US Citizen, I know without doubt I'm in more than one US federal database.

Why US citizens might think they are exempt from such a privilege I realy don't know.

Especially now the US has legislation that turns corporate databases such as those held by banks, credit card and telecoms amd utility companies and most other corporate entities into government databases all in the name of "anti-" crime / drug / terrorism / insider dealing / etc etc. Just renting a home these days can put you above various "money laundering" limits, as can buying a home or car or even some home electronics can. Even buying more than a few Kgs of sugar can get you on a database (it's a "watch chemical" as it's a precursor to spirit alcohol "moonshine" production).

And as is known from the "no fly list" just being on a federal DB can be used as a justification to get you on the list...

ObijanOctober 31, 2018 10:52 PM

I don't care what they do in Europe or elsewhere.
I know, the American way is: "look what everybody else is doing, find the best practice, do the exact opposite :)


Oh, and did I mention I hate banks, too? I don't do business with them and couldn't care less what the concerns of bank users may be.

So, because you don't use banks, nobody else should use a bank, a financial institution, retirement, healthcare,...
Or they should not be able to do so securely?

Authentication needs to be horrible to be compatible with your prejudices, regardless of the billions of losses it creates every year, human suffering and decreased security.

Ron HelwigNovember 1, 2018 6:15 AM

For the folks like @Sancho_P and @Obijan, I would ask why does the ID used to access your bank account NEED to be one issued by the government? Why can't the bank, which understands how to secure its property and your money far better than politicians, be trusted to run its own ID system?

When a government issues an ID that is used by businesses like this, it should be seen as corporate welfare. It is reducing the cost of business directly by making taxpayers subsidize it.

The same applies to driving a car. Why aren't insurance companies issuing driver's licenses and vehicle plates? Vehicle plates would be company property, so if you fail to remain insured, they can simply reclaim their property. No plates means no insurance, so other drivers (and law enforcement) can react appropriately.

Clive RobinsonNovember 1, 2018 9:39 AM

@ Ron Helwig,

Why can't the bank, which understands how to secure its property and your money far better than politicians, be trusted to run its own ID system?

The bank won't do it, and never has done for not just cost reasons.

The Government is "The insurer of last resort" and banks therefore out source as much risk onto them as possible. The Government in the UK tried to force the issue some years ago and the banks out right refused complaining about the cost of running accounts and estimating that the government requirments would add 150-200USD equivalent to the cost of every account and said they would be forced to close all personal accounts that they could not get the money back on.

At the time the UK Government policy was to cut it's own costs such as the very large cost of social welfare distribution (apparently it cost about 1/3 of the money received by those on benifit).

The reason the UK had to force the ID issue was anti-crime treaties it had signed upto in the late 1990's and 2000.

The banks basically had the government over a barrel and they pushed back by effectively saying the Government had a choice,

A) See their costs for wealfare and tax relief sky rocket or,

B) Take away the cost and the risk to the banks of opening any new accounts.

As the UK Gov at the time had the bloody silly notion in mind of a "Universal Benifit Card", put up by some lunatic Civil Servants and technologist with vast profits. They rather stupidly went with the National ID Card idea let the banks off the hook then had the ID system shot down in flames by just about every one else oh including the banks.

Lets be clear about banks motivations they make money on moving money they realy care not one whit who's money or if it's legal or not. They want minimum cost and maximum profit. If that is shifting money for drug cartels, foregin dictators, tyrants and wealthy criminals so much the better as there is more profit and less risk. Even those evading tax, are a good source of profit. Because of "services"...

What banks don't want is "current accounts" or other "personal accounts" that don't have "services" attached.

What the banks want to do is force "services" onto you that have no benifit to you like card protection insurance that does not pay out, likewise holiday insurance. You only need to look at the UK PPI scandle, and the "fees" scandle, oh and the next one that appears to be budding up is the "home insurance" scam with mortgages. Where independent insurance cover is about £100/year but tied to a mortgage from yoir Bank is for some reason upto £900/year... What is worse is they make what are actually false financial statments to mortgauge holders to prevent them seeing just how much they are getting ripped off for...

If you are some one who never ever goes into debt, nor borrows money, saves carefully etc, then as a customer you are seen as a "Barnacle". Thus you are not valued, you are not wanted and they will try every thing they can to get rid of you that they can legaly get away with[1]. If that does not work then they will move your savings down into a next to zero interest payed account or worse claim there was no activity on the account and take it all away due to "regulations".

But if you are some one who is always going over drawn but paying it back along with 50USD equivalent fees every month plus interest at 300% or more per annum then you are a valued customer. In effect the bank aims to get one month of your annual income for doing nothing, and many of the UK banks systems are now actually setup to encorage such problems.

[1] This includes, as a friend found out, shutting down your account just before Xmas to cause you maximum pain. They then take your positive balance and any incoming monies and play with it on the money markets, and put all sorts of barriers up to stop you getting it back, with the excuse it's "regulations" but they never say who's regulations... By which time all sorts of bills payed by direct debits or standing orders have been stopped fees are levied because your account although closed and emptied can accrue both debts and fees. But you have also gone into areas with other financial entities who raise fees against you and your name gets put in so many "bad risk" files you can not realisticaly count them... Because guess what, they all earn money by selling your personal details along with the bad debt info they created, and they will make even more money as you try to sort it all out, "Kerching trebbles all around" you've payed part of some fat cats bonus...

Sancho_PNovember 1, 2018 6:51 PM

@Impossibly Stupid

We tend to think complicated, but most things are not.

”Who should be identifying them? Why? Where I live, the police will arrest (or worse) criminals regardless of whether or not they can be identified.”
- That sounds interesting, good police noses or criminals wearing a flag? ;-)

I never asked, too, because I know everybody here has an ID, valid in the EU. Be it the couple from Sweden in the casa rural down the street, the drunken British or the singing Germans, even the dark skinned guy over there has one - just because you literally can’t come over or live here without official photo ID. You can’t rent an apartment, won’t get a hotel room, can’t buy any phone or SIM card, use a credit card (except the now ubiquitous chip+pin cards), medical service, whatever. Even the postman or UPS driver will not deliver their parcel without you presenting it.
- - In Spain, if you happen to run into police without valid photo ID it will likely end in an unpleasant night until they verify who you are.
E.g. see: https://www.spanishsolutions.net/legal-issues-in-spain/carrying-id-in-spain/

Our (DNI) numbers (Documento Nacional de Identidad) are everywhere and therefore known to nearly everybody.
While you can buy a bridge or Rolex for 50 bucks on each corner in town, I don’t know of serious identity issues here [1] (we have some refugees here, too, but that’s another story).

I have two valid passports, two ID - cards, a drivers license, social security card, …, all are valid in every country of the EU, all with numbers I could tell you because they are completely worthless without my face and photo ID.
But police in Sweden could verify my ID-card within 15 minutes, check with Interpol, and I guess they would have even known about an existing criminal record, but likely not the full details.

So my conclusion is:
A national and internationally valid photo ID is necessary and of value.
Abuse of data is completely separated from the existence of the ID itself.
Who has to have access to which data elements is part of a security concept (well, I’m not very optimistic regarding that in the EU …).

But:
If a simple number is sufficient for fraud then there are other severe security problems involved.

And the “credit score” thing makes me check with my barrel of red stuff …

[1]
Granted, I can buy a gallon of herbicide “it’s for my neighbor” and his DNI - number, but this is the local way, as everywhere in the world.

Sancho_PNovember 1, 2018 7:00 PM

@Ron Helwig

”why does the ID used to access your bank account NEED to be one issued by the government? Why can't the bank, ”
Theoretically the bank could, but are you really thinking of all the required safety features of a gov photo ID? Or would it be similar to my numerous saving cards from gas stations, groceries, hardware stores, …?

”… it should be seen as corporate welfare.”
That’s a funny thinking :-)))

So the bank had to pay for road access, street lights, etc., too?
Wasn’t it basically the intention that business had to pay taxes?
- Wait, this is why facecrook & Co can evade that rule?

Let’s take it a step further. When the insurance company has to reclaim the plates, they will have their own police organization to take it from my car?

CallMeLateForSupperNovember 2, 2018 8:04 AM

@65535
"During the 1980s the Social Security Numbers were used as student ID numbers in educational facilities."

Yes. I would add that, in the late 1960's ('69? '70?), the US Air Force stopped generating its S/N's and began using SSAN for S/N.

VinnyGNovember 3, 2018 9:51 AM

Wow. The anti-indivudal-privacy folks _really_ came out of the woodwork to comment on this one. Enough to cause me to wonder if some issue profiling search engine found the "right" terms in the article to trigger a systemetized response...

A Nonny BunnyNovember 9, 2018 3:16 PM

@Ron Helwig

For the folks like @Sancho_P and @Obijan, I would ask why does the ID used to access your bank account NEED to be one issued by the government
It doesn't. I don't know how it is in other EU countries, but the only thing the banks here require is a valid (national) id for verifying your identity when they create your account (purportedly for tax/anti-fraud purposes). But it's not necessary for accessing your bank account. For access you just have a bank-issued bankcard with pin, and an online account with some form of two-factor authentication for transactions.

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