Schneier on Security

Chuck Finley • February 13, 2014 6:06 PM

FYI informational http://intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/past-debates/item/1017-snowden-was-justified

Full video debit link http://intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/past-debates/item/1017-snowden-was-justified#

Posting before viewing – no comment at this point
Afraid I will be disappointed in the blame shifting and apathetic lean towards the continued one man autocracy.

Enjoy

Chuck Finley • February 13, 2014 9:02 PM

Premises of Debate
Everyone took the oath (below) including the President. The President is the only one not accountable to the constitution.
To “support and defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic”

This is the same argument big companies use to crush security analysis’s who hound vendors with relevant material vulnerability facts and then after a long overdue time, disclose to the public.

So, “Was Snowden justified”, whistle blower at the end of a devious rope or just decided to hang his bosses with it for fun.

Support
• Ben Wisner (ACLU) Snowden’s Legal advisor
• Daniel Ellsberg (leaker of 7k Pentagon papers)
40 years after the fact is “typical”

Ben Wisner———
• Weak arguments |||
• Strong arguments||||||||||||||||||
• Weak arguments which follow stronger ones
• Extraordinary faults in his own premise
• Lies and Dam lies (Bullet list)
• Faults identified in oppositions premise ||||
• Wistful thinking ||||||

Daniel Ellsberg——–
• Weak arguments |||
• Very weak arguments||
• Extraordinary faults in his own premise
• Strong arguments|||||||
• Weak arguments which follow stronger ones|
• Extraordinary faults in his own premise
• Lies and Dam lies (Bullet list)
• Faults identified in oppositions premise||||||||||
• Wistful thinking |

Crucify
• Jim Woolsey former CIA Director (93-95) aka Theater role as CIR dir named “Hanious Overreach”
• Andrew McCarthy

James Woolsey
• Weak arguments |||||
• Very weak arguments ||||||
• Extraordinary faults in his own premise |||||
-Blaming Snowden for revealing “US intended to use Chinese Cyber weapons against them” which is exactly the same thing Obama mad real when he personally leaked that Stuxnet and Flame were both of US origin
— Snowden did what he thought was responsible disclosure.
–Obama was neither responsible nor sober when he attributed US as owner of Iranian centrifuge malware
– Lies and Dam lies.
— That Iran was responsible for 911 and being able to read Iranian emails could have stopped 911
–Anti CIA following technique revealed by Woolsey, use Faraday bag when in transit impacts
–Latin America Sex trade and Prevents CIA from following in real time Sex traders.

• Strong arguments
• Weak arguments which follow stronger ones
• Faults identified in oppositions premise
• Wistful thinking |

Andrew McCarthy
• Weak arguments|
• Very weak arguments||||
• Extraordinary faults in his own premise ||||||
– No single document intel disclosure could possible justify the treason.
– Faults Bush right after 911 for reacting.
– Obama is entitled due to being “elected” and following a difficult protocol
– Took away power by using private judges who never deny a FISA request. Requests are reworded to be correct.
– The Supreme court and 15 Federal judges that work for Obama can trump Constitution to ratify one person as Judge Jury and Executioner.
– Describes core issue as a Type A Alpha personality conflict between President and Snowden as rationale that Snowden not justified.

• Strong arguments
• Weak arguments which follow stronger ones
• Extraordinary faults in his own premise
• Lies and Dam lies (Bullet list)
• Faults identified in oppositions premise
• Wistful thinking |

—-Round 2
Inverse Premises
• The ends justify the means when elected officials conspire to crap on the constitution
• Snowden was justified because he was / is correct that the ends don’t justify the means.

Andrew McCarthy
• The public already knew the means and did not know the detail some of which was in the public eye from 2008. You didn’t complain then you have no right to claim Snowden is Whistleblower now

Ben Wisner
• Federal judges have said in 2013-14 the program is almost certainly unconstitutional al
• Congress in 2013-14 has threatened to not renew patriot act.
• Clearly the Public and Courts did not bless by silence that the ends justify the means.

Woolsey
• Immediately went to the trough of “Meta Data” lies and Exceptionally Dammed lies
• Let’s executive branch only see what’s revealed on, “the outside of envelope and postmark”, which has been approved by courts. The ends DO justify the means, for what’s on the “envelope and postmark”

• The fact is they pull every bit of audio Meta data from audio
• The envelope reveals the Meta data related to the conversations, to the accents of the talkers, what’s on the TV or radio, how many people in the room, in the house, what might have played through computer audio on login data wrapped into the envelope. Just epic Lies.

Daniel Ellsberg
• Whistle blower is justified due to material observation that public elected officials and generals are laying in public. Just like they lied straight faced to everyone multiple times at 2013 Black Hat USA.
• All telephony content is recorded and fine grained turned into Meta data why should we believe them. Only due to Snowden!

Ben Wisner

This is where I got exhausted with the crucify sides pointless bloviating contributing no value but that the ends always justify the spin, asserting emphatically that the means and ends are irrelevant.

-Round 2 Audience Questions
• Was it necessary to disclose the amount and still seek the process he was trying to achieve. Snowden has disclosed zero documents. Journalists have!
• Does the damage justify Snowden means using professional Journalist judgments? Yes.
• Health of democracy is of no value to the powers in control.

Round 3 – Closing statements
Rating closing from 1-100
• Ben Wisner – Justified
• James Woolsey – Experience justifies the means when material spin is by request of NSA.
• Daniel Ellsberg – The Facility in Utah has only one purpose Content audio video decomposition. Meandered on closing focus what a waste.
• Andrew McCarthy – Rejects a premise that law enforcement rules derived from a misguided justification that operating within the bounds of the Constitution has supremacy.

Votes
Before
• For the Motion 29%
• Against the Motion 29%
• Undecided voters 42%

After Vote Difference Final Tally
• For the Motion +25% 54%
• Against the Motion +6% 35%
• Clueless voters -31 11%

The news is that after informed public debate 31 % decided and 3 to 1 decided that Snowden was justified!

No one brought up NSA implants directly which in my mind justifies Bruce’s “NSA leak of the day” as critical path for continued informed debate and discourse.

I applauded, (sometimes with the audience) 4 times to a speakers points, if you don’t think that the NSA might want to always and automatedly ‘know’ who I was for and who I was against by decomposing the meta data from audio content leaking by design from in home electronic devices, respectfully, you should count yourself ignorant and a fool.

As for Whistleblower media we the people dialogs, I turn evaluate Google bias, re Stuxnet and Flame and the NSA exploit of the day as compared to DuckDuckGo which does not store therefore cannot spin the search results.

Google
• Terms “Obama attributes United States and writer of malware”
o 1 poor, 2 very good hits and 1 excellent hit by the Washington Post.

• Terms “NSA Exploit of the Day”
o 10 excellent hits but exclusively points to schneier.com
o A searching user that stumbled on this would think Schneier.com was the squeaky wheel missing the scope of the reporting and resulting eco system dialog is vastly wider.

Repeat the two searches on DuckDuckGo for reference
• Terms “Obama attributes United States and writer of malware”
o 8 good direct hits from prominent diverse source origins.

• Terms “NSA Exploit of the Day”
o 80 good direct hits from prominent diverse source origins.

God I pray the US Supreme Court does not use Google. It would be a sin.