Schneier on Security

It's a bir over complicated, and looks like it would take two or more minutes to make.

Back in the late 1970's I was shown by a Policeman I knew quite well just how effective tightly rolling a newspaper can be.

If you use both hands you can roll it very tightly using the "shuffling grip" and if you then hold it close to one end it is almost as solid as a stick of wood. You can do this in about thirty seconds at most or ten or so if you don't want it to tight.

If you poke somebody with it they most very definatly know it. For even more damage hold it in your fist such that about an inch sticks out of the bottom of your hand, then bring that smartly down on the side or back of somebodies head it renders them very nearly insensible, and not very able to defenf themselves.

There's an episode of Mythbusters where they build crossbows out of newspaper. An inmate escaped from prison (or killed a gaurd, can't remember) with a similar device, and they were trying to see if it was actually possible to injure someone with one.

Bruce,

If you want to be realy nasty then a ball point pen pushed up into somebodies head just below the ear behind the jaw or ramed down the ear is known to be fairly leathal in most cases.

Less leathal is the "watch strap knuckle duster" you wear a large solid watch such as a divers watch on either an expanding metal braclet or a metal link bracelet. Simply slip it down so that either the watch or the braclet protects your knuckles and hit in the ordinary way.

Then there is the "bunch of keys duster" if you have a large key ring with several Yale Lock type keys on it it you hold it in the palm of your hand and poke the keys out between your fingers it can make quite a nasty mess of somebodies face when you hit them.

Lima soled shoes (very flexable) and Blackie heel studs make very effective coshes, as do a handfull of coins in a couple of socks.

A leather belt with a hevy or ornate belt buckle likewise makes an effective weapon.

All of these types of weapon and many more (shoe lace garott etc) have been known about since before the second world war and a lot where taught to servicemen and agents as "self defence" techniques.

One of the most nasty weapons currently in use in Glasgow is two "box cutter" blades held apart by a match stick. If you slash somebodies face the wound is such that there is little a hospital can do with it to prevent a very very nasty scar.

If you know any prison warders ask them about makeshift weapons the inmates make, you will probably not look at ordinary objects in the same way ever again.

@Clive Robinson
"...you will probably not look at ordinary objects in the same way ever again."
Let's ban ordinary objects from flying!
Hold on, even a naked martial art pro can do quite a damage. Let's ban people from flying, that would solve the problem.

"Bruce,

You might want to get hold of a copy of,

"All-in Fighting", by W.E.Fairbairn

You can read the intor to this 1942 book at,

http://www.gutterfighting.org/WEFallintro.html

You can make a shank out of anything.

wasn't there an extended fight scene with a rolled newspaper or magazine in one of the recent Bourne movies?

I saw that same Mythbusters (re the crossbow made of newspaper).

"Anything" can be a weapon.

Which is why Bruce is right: the time to stop an airline terror plot is before the miscreant arrives at the airport.

Attention passengers:

"In the event of a water ditching you can use your seat as a flotation device, In the event of anyone declaring they are trying to take over this flight, you will find an extendable baton inside your armrest. You are authorised by the pilot and the FAA and TSA to use 'necessary force' to subdue any passenger who poses a threat to aircraft safety."

(bought to you from the school of thought of everyone owning a gun creates a safer environment.)

@nzruss
Why would you need to issue weapons?

As long as they cannot get through the cockpit door, the passengers can just tackle them and hold them down until the plane lands.

There is a rich and terrible history of improvised weapons in prisons. One of my favorites is the glass knife. Made from a piece of broken glass and just enough electrical tape to form a handle, one stabs the victim repeatedly, departs, drops the knife, stamps on it to shatter it, and recovers the tape. No weapon, no evidence.

The rolled-up magazine or newspaper can be a devastating weapon. However, it's not practical to use it as a hostage-taking weapon, which is what TSA is trying to ban. (A hostage-taking weapon is one that can kill the hostage before others can effectively intervene, which brings us down mostly to bladed weapons in the absence of firearms.)

Any resemblance between flying commercial and prison is no longer coincidental.

Saw a video recommending handing out mini Louisville Sluggers to everyone as they board the plane. The guy got the idea from "bat day" at Yankee Stadium. After all, no one hijacks the bleachers. Funny video, but full of profanity so send the kids out of the room...

http://www.thekidfrombrooklyn.com/video_previews.asp

Boeing was originally gonna equipment the new 787 with cryogentic stasis tubes for "the ultimate in passenger confort and saftey," but they found the added weight would have lowered the gas milage, causing Boeing to pay for more carbon offsets.

j/k btw

This ain't exactly news. Improvised weapons are a great challenge to ingenuity, and there are a LOT of ingenious people around.

Back in the 1960s, there was a TV series called "Stoney Burke," starring the late Jack Lord of "Hawaii Five-O" fame. In one episode, entitled "The Weapons Man", after a man is apparently "accidentally" killed in an archery demonstration at the rodeo, a "weapons expert" arrives to investigate the death.

In the final scene, the weapons expert has to go one-on-one with the killer, and beats the hell out of him with something in his hand. Afterwards, Stoney picks up the weapon and unrolls it -- into a newspaper, and says "You certainly do know about weapons."

How soon before Americans are no longer allowed to have anything sharper than a rubber ball? (And the rubber ball cannot be smaller than 2" in diameter because it is a choking hazard.)

We live in a country ruled by the insane. And they wonder why the people are showing signs of madness...

> We live in a country ruled by the insane.

I'd venture that it's more along the lines of "pandering to the stupid".

We should all pick up a newspaper and go beat up the spammers *points at 'vera'*

@Val

but save me the advertising supplement please.

Assuming they can no longer get control of the cockpit due to the doors then it seems to be that weapons for hijackers need a weapon that intimidates and is lethal with ease. With a bomb people back off since they might take out the plane, a gun or even a knife people hold back since they're worried about getting shot/stabbed. But someone with a Millwall brick or even a broken bottle would likely be unable to stop people from fighting back.

I think we're done banning classes of objects. Lets move on to whole classes of people. First up - doctors!

Archie solved this problem in the 1970's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJI54GMM

@Not you again:
I'd start with politicians

It will come as no surprise to the assembled that the favourite reading matter of professional bodyguards in the UK during those times on the job where they just have to sit and wait outside a meeting or similar is "Country Life". Country Life is notable for the weight and stiffness of the high quality paper it is printed on.

"One of the most nasty weapons currently in use in Glasgow is two "box cutter" blades held apart by a match stick. If you slash somebodies face the wound is such that there is little a hospital can do with it to prevent a very very nasty scar."

Interestingly, the first time I heard about this was in a Mike Hammer novel written in 1947.

You can always buy a "Newspaper Briquette Maker" to get those nice and consistent koshes.

http://www.zillion.co.nz/listing/3613833/

TSA will ban newspapers when someone actually "plots" a "credible" airplane takeover that could "kill untold thousands" in a "plot reminiscent of 9/11".

Then we'll be stuck with magazines until someone plots to use copies of Time to take over a plane...

Newspapers don't hurt people, people hurt people!

Country Life is good, but so are any of the larger computing magazines. Not so much used as a cosh, but jabbed.

To quote Iain (M!) Banks - "What's the use of weapons when anything can be used as a weapon".

>"Any resemblance between flying commercial and prison is no longer coincidental."

LOL and ready to cry. I'm thinking about all those copies of the WSJ, Financial Times and IHT given out on int'l flights. Weaponized newspapers are a perfect example of why object-based profiling will never be sufficient and some form of person-based profiling is necessary.

Fists have been known to inflict serious damage for millennia. We should ban all passengers having hands.

Seriously -- nearly anything can be used as a weapon should the need or inclination arise. There's way too much hysteria on this topic.

Dangerous thing, the written word...