Schneier on Security

Clive Robinson • August 29, 2025 11:50 AM

@ Jaime L Smith, ALL,

You suggest two things with,

“… this is the airline’s risk not the traveler’s risk. If the airline wants to mitigate it…”

But you need to ask a follow question

If it is the airlines risk, do they carry liability?

At the moment bo they really don’t carry any liability that they can not shrug off.

Because as long as all airlines “do the same thing” it’s effectively “An Industry Standard”… Which even though it’s such a dubiously low standard it in effect is all you will get.

Because as @Bruce will find it’s effectively limited liability if no crime by the airline or their staff can be shown / acted upon.

I’m not sure what it is these days but back when I made a claim against British Airways for trashing my sail bag they tried claiming it was actually my fault before getting a snoty letter back from me via a friend who acted as a “legal representative” BA wrote back and pointed out that the limit was equivalent of $20, and I would have to “present a formal claim in person at the airport”.

Basically they had no intention of paying and were trying to run circles around me.

Their Chairman who’s address was fairly easily found got a “registered letter” which told him to be available at his home “to receive service” and that it would cost him transport + time + expenses and fees that would have to be paid…

They paid up, but only to the limit.

So a little investigation revealed the answer to your second point of the airline not mitigating it in any way.

It’s simple if they take any kind of extra mitigation, then they risk increasing their liability if it goes to court.

The argument is simply one of,

“Because they took extra mitigating action, they must have had a known reason for doing so…” Thus the “burden of proof” in what is a civil case gets thrown onto them. There is thus a very high probability they will fail and have to pay not just damages but depending on the jurisdiction a compensatory amount for legal representation.

For various reasons I’m now into my third decade of “not flying”, so things will have changed somewhat. I suspect not for the better of the traveler.

A piece of advice that used to be given was,

“Pay for everything by Credit Card”

Including all items such as electronics/gifts, clothes, and even cosmetics and toiletries (and in some places medications). Because in most cases the card provider covered such losses by an inclusive insurance policy.

BUT… Don’t claim on “travel insurance” as they just bounce it back to your “Household insurance” in some places.

It was why I switched to only carrying “hand luggage”. There was a trick back then in that hard-shell and similar bags were subject to not just size limits but weight limits as well… But “suit carriers” were treated the same way as coats, jumpers, and other weather protection. That is with few restrictions.

I used to get four sets of cloths and two pairs of “dress shoes” along with things like phone charger universal power socket and other stuff in the shoes. Leaving my “carry on bag” being my “tool kit and computer”.

Back then the US was a much less expensive place to buy technical books and certain “childrens toys” such as model railway stuff.

The checking in people on seeing you with a bag from one of the concourse shops and you say it’s reading stuff for the journey let the books on, as for the model railway stuff it went in the suit carrier.

I even pulled a fast one… They canceled my flight on the day I was due to fly home and bumped me to the following day. I said the extra cloths I had was a case of having to buy by necessity and showed the sales receipts. They got on the flight “no penalty”…

The trick prior to 9/11 was know the “International Air Transport Association”(IATA) regulations and the rules Pertaining to the flight end point compensation.

If your flight got delayed you could very quickly find out by asking for “a food voucher” if they handed it over it ment at least a four hour delay, and so on… Remember “first come first served” is the name of the game with food, hotels etc.

A friend used to always fly with a “hooded puffer coat” that hung below their knees with a change of underwear, wet-wipes, travel toothbrush, and sachets of hotel shower-gel and shampoo in a couple of sandwich zip-lock bags in the pockets. The coat could be used as a “sleeping bag” and the personal(hand/man) bag could go in the hood to make a pillow and keep document copies etc in.

They also knew the tricks of how to get into the “business class frequent flyer lounges” with showers and the like without being one. Some of the tricks still work but they vary with airline.

Oh one rule of thumb that still holds, is that the “National flag carrier” usually gets priority on landing. So if bad weather etc is “keeping the birds in the air on arrival” yours is one of the first to roost. Which is important when you want to get home to your bed and loved ones.