Comments

vas pup June 4, 2021 3:52 PM

U.S. Supreme Court restricts scope of computer fraud law

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-supreme-court-limits-reach-141253709.html

“Barrett noted in the ruling that an overly broad view of the law would penalize commonplace computer activity such as an employee sending a personal email or checking sports scores on a work device. If the law “criminalizes every violation of a computer-use policy, then millions of otherwise law-abiding citizens are criminals,” Barrett wrote.”

Read the whole article for more details.

raginrayguns June 4, 2021 4:12 PM

Bing image search and DuckDuckGo image search are coming up with nothing for “tank man”.

echo June 4, 2021 4:35 PM

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/04/amazon-hiring-former-government-officials-491878

AWS has “a pretty rigorous firewalling process” to ensure new employees don’t violate those no-contact restrictions, Eldakdoky said. The company’s legal team regularly updates an internal wiki page detailing which recent recruits are blocked from working on particular projects and when they become available.

There’s a loophole of sorts: forward planning and forward deployment…

But once that period ends, those government hires become particularly valuable. Ethics rules allow former officials to advise a private-sector employer on how to get particular government contracts. And it helps immensely that they often know whom to call at their former government agency.

…followed by a lot of burst activity to capitalise on this and…

AWS’ Stone said Amazon follows all federal laws related to hiring former government officials, has “a robust process for screening former government employees during the hiring process,” and has “adopted specific policies that reinforce our commitment to complying with conflict of interest and revolving door rules.”

…it shifts a well developed asset from one entity to another entity so doubles the effective gain.

There’s also other advantages to recruitment. It may remove someone who had settled in and managed to get things moving in a particular direction. It leaves a vacancy where a dud may be appointed into their place. It may shift the political tone so the direction of travel is different. Where a “champion” is removed it may create a power vacuum which results in consolodation so department effectiveness is reduced. Lost of perceived power and influence may lose media interest and result in a shifting of political priorities. A bleeding of “business intelligence” may have knock on effects across multiple agencies. Multiple people may need to be hired to fill the gap so increasing costs while reducing output. The balance of influence shifts from regulator to the regulated. A few steps down the line and they begin lobbying to write the rules in their favour as nobody else is left to do the work and they have no money to pay for it. Not only a job or a department or an agency but an entire sector can then follow so an entire area of state endevour can be handed from the accountable state monopoly to an unnaccountable private monopoly.

And it’s unlikely that the revolving door is going to stop turning any time soon — AWS is able to pay its employees six-figure salaries and stock options that dwarf the salaries of mid-level government employees.

“It’s not that AWS is targeting government personnel,” said AWS’ Eldakdoky, but that people like him find it hard to resist better-paying jobs in the private sector and Amazon’s offers are particularly competitive. He said he got a significant salary boost when he joined AWS and will be able to retire “a lot earlier.”

“At the end of the day, you cannot look that in the eye and turn it down,” he said.

Yes you can.

For those who can’t I wonder if a tariff kind of system cannot be developed. It’s been discussed within EU circles on and off for years to level up developing countries by effectively removing the race to the bottom transfer of manufacturer and services to lower cost countries without any pressure to invest in health and welfare and other systems in those countries which of course would raise business costs again.

I’ll leave it to an economist and accountant to work out the details but I think there’s something in the space of private business paying “higher bribes” and evading good governance and hold back social development that needs looking at. Or they could just increase their tax or levvy and increase grants and aid. Whatever works.

Mister4Ya June 4, 2021 5:04 PM

Dear Bruce, and/or whoever is moderating,
please allow me to ask a question here as I think that there’s probably no better place on the Web with more computer/networking gurus than here (reading your blog). My intent is not to hijack a post, your blog, or any response/post on this blog.

So, how many virtual ports are there? Does the 65,535 include port 0 (zero)? As far as I know, in computer science, zero is a value that counts, as in zero=off, 1=on (semiconductor GateOxide layer – to name just one of many examples). Also, is this 65,535 a number that covers TCP, UDP, ICMP, and other less common protocols all together or can you have 65,535 TCP ports, plus the same number of UDP, etc, because I’ve seen ports with the same number but assigned to different protocols or applications depending on the purpose of each protocol/application. Normally, you’d use UDP ports for speed and TCP for “accuracy” (due to TCP being more specific when it comes to error checking/handling) but my question remains: how many virtual ports are there really – technically? Thanks very much. I’m really looking forward to hearing back from a Cisco/Juniper guru.

ADFGVX June 4, 2021 5:08 PM

@ bad pup

the law would penalize commonplace computer activity such as an employee sending a personal email or checking sports scores on a work device

People at work are presumably being paid by the hour or on a fixed salary assuming a full day’s work for each workday.

The activities you have cited actually constitute THEFT (or a misappropriation for personal use) of the employer’s resources and the time for which the employees are being paid on the clock to work.

echo June 4, 2021 7:12 PM

Someone didn’t pay attention to the original Data protection Act let alone the GDPR. These removal of rights and data grabs are way past the point of “Whoops we didn’t know”.

https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/03/uk_data_protection_eu_parl/

Almost two weeks ago, the European Parliament took the step of objecting to the European Commission’s decision to grant the UK data adequacy.

Far from being a reactionary move against a former member state, the Parliament’s resolution highlights flaws in the UK’s data protection regime, which will have serious consequences for citizens’ rights and could lead to legal uncertainty for businesses in future.

The European Parliament’s resolution will not block adequacy (that decision is for the European Commission in the next month), but it nevertheless sends a significant political signal, particularly in the wake of two major court cases last week, which have found the UK’s exemption of immigration from data protection laws to be unlawful and that UK mass surveillance laws violated privacy rights.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/legal-threat-sharpens-over-uk-government-plans-harvest-patient-data-gps/

Today lawyers acting for openDemocracy and five other claimants have challenged the British government’s controversial plans to extract the medical records of everyone in England from their GP without proper consultation or informed consent – just as the doctors are reeling from coping with COVID-19.

openDemocracy has joined forces with Foxglove, a tech justice start-up, and other campaigners to issue an urgent legal challenge to the Department of Health and Social Care over its scheme to harvest the personal medical data into one massive database, which private corporations will be able to access.

The coalition’s legal letter to the government warns that unless the health department pauses the GP data grab – due to go ahead on 1 July – and seeks transparent patient consent, we will seek a court injunction to halt the scheme.

lurker June 4, 2021 9:21 PM

@rayginraygun: MSM is reporting Bing as apologizing for “human error” in the image being MIA. It’s supposed to be blocked for all searches from mainland China, but year-round. There shouldn’t be any need to adjust the block on or about May 35.

Weather June 4, 2021 11:56 PM

@mister
You know UDP is for fire and forget, and TCP has a initial tax but don’t know the port numbers? Its a word 0xffff and any protocol at that level can have those number, so infinite.

SpaceLifeForm June 5, 2021 12:03 AM

@ Mister4Ya

ICMP has no PORT number

You should not see any PORT ZERO traffic on TCP or UDP.

If you do, you are likely being scanned. And not by someone using nmap.

hxtp://dl.ifip.org/db/conf/networking/networking2019/1570512603.pdf [9 page PDF]

Port 0 pertains to a small percentage of network traffic, and protection can be easily gained by dropping all traffic with this port. Nonetheless this anomalous traffic teaches a valuable lesson: It is important to stay aware and vigilant with respect to assumptions that are made. Only because it shouldn’t happen does not mean it does not do so in practice.

SpaceLifeForm June 5, 2021 1:35 AM

@ rayginraygun, lurker

Microsoft is lying.

Yahoo and DuckDuckGo use Microsoft. Bing images is run in China.

hxtps://twitter.com/GossiTheDog/status/1400944613444227075

Winter June 5, 2021 4:11 AM

@SLF, All
“Yahoo and DuckDuckGo use Microsoft. Bing images is run in China.”

There is a scene in The Lord of the Rings about the Palantirs that ended up being under the control of the evil one and used to mislead those who looked into them. Tolkien was thinking about cinema and television, but it still holds.

MS’ mismanagement (could use less polite qualifications) is just one more reason to avoid Bing.

Clive Robinson June 5, 2021 5:29 AM

@ Winter, SpaceLifeForm, MarkH, JonKnowsNothing,

Things get more and more curious…

I was shown this just now,

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fyhMoWDSZ7Y

Long answer short the University of Barcelona are publishing 12th March 2019 as the discovery epoch data,

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.20129627v1

No doubt a whole bunch of people hanging around 77, 2′, 11″ West are going to be upset as it spoils their pet theories they’ve built up on bad or no logic…

lurker June 5, 2021 7:02 AM

@Clive: The comments below the abstract are suggesting U.Barcelona found something else, or had a contaminated sample…

Fake June 5, 2021 7:19 AM

@Clive,

Now I know that someone who believes something will have horse blinders on when it comes to reality or disillusionment but I don’t believe that disproves anything.

It certainly expands the possibilities, but precludes assumptions?

So potentially a less transmissible variant was present during the first week of March. If it was ultra infectious it very well could have been detected for a longer period in the sludge due to person to person transmission. A question to me is how long does it take to pass from the stool to the detection station?
I would assume several days, but if it was only a single day of sample detection maybe it was excreted in liquid waste and the detection time is ~1day.

Very nice link if it holds up,

Winter June 5, 2021 7:31 AM

@lurker
“U.Barcelona found something else, or had a contaminated sample…”

PCR=Permanent Contamination Risk

PCR is very sensitive and specific. But the high sensitivity requires very careful work. As one of the comments states, if you get a signal only after 39 rounds of (exponential) amplification, you should really check and double check (I asked an expert, who agreed with the comment). Most would consider this result highly suspect.

Consider too that the authors never cited their own paper in later studies, which is always a red flag.

I would not deny that SARS-2 in some form could have been circulating early in 2019, but this is not the definitive evidence of that.

Fake June 5, 2021 7:45 AM

2 more things,

First
“At the end of the lockdown, SARS-CoV-2 RNA apparently disappeared in the WWTPs but could still be detected in grab samples from four urban sewers.”

From lurkers link, WWTP detection requires volume of some sort. We can’t assume that to be absolute, statistically but even if they generally assume saturation is a requirement it could change some things.

They said local grabs showed detection ratios when WWTP sampling wouldn’t.

Second
Also, I seem to remember hearing about this month’s ago… Somebody just showed you this dated information Clive? Have you been outed?

Third
How do we know samples from March 2020 weren’t maliciously switched with samples from March 2019?

Clive Robinson June 5, 2021 11:04 AM

@ ALL,

Common folks, think.. why did I say,

“Things get more and more curious…”

What does the word “Epoch” imply?

And Why the latitude?

They are to do with time and location of current not previous events.

The UoB stuff is a year old, all of it and nothing has changed other than it had slipped out of peoples minds, thus many were hoping they could safely ignore it. But now that cupboard has been opened again and the skeleton now has a spotlight lighting it up again.

As for the latitude, it goes through Washington DC…

What is currently happening there?

Penny dropping yet?

OK most of the virus oragin arguments boil down to “hoe can I make them fit my agenda”. Like the idiotic,

“If not wet market then must be lab”

Or,

“People got sick at the lab first”

We know both logically are false, but Jo Public what do they know or care?

So much QAnon, Alt-Right and other MAGA claptrap is continuing apace (apparently there is a Trumpian event comming up) and there is apparent buy in from the talking heads of MSM etc.

Politically the US has a problem, “China bashing” is still the number one sport, even though most house holds are reliant on China tech and Production.

As I’ve mentioned before there is a sort of joke about senior managment that says,

“The first rule of senior managment is never be in the same room as a decision.”

It’s even more true for senior politicians, who survive on “plausable deniability”

But the joke goes on,

“The second rule is never ask a question that will give you an answer that does not align with your agender”

And,

“The third rule is always delegate not command.”

These rules are why the “Make it so” attitude expressed in Startrek Next Generation quickly became a real life managment style for

“Teflon Tony, sociopathic leader”.

And just about every politician still. It’s also called “Suround yourself with fall guys managment” a much beloved style of a real political leader called Tony, UK PM Tony Blair, oh and Enron etc.

So back to the present, what’s so special about the timing of the video?

Well the Dear Dr is playing it a bit dumb (he is an actualy not a medical doctor but holds a research doctorate PhD.). He is very popular and he is interviewed by MSM quite frequently thus he has “reach” and people listen… He’s also known about the UoB findings since they first came out and has mentioned them before, and has always pointed out the paper is “pre-print” and needs peer-review…

So why is he bringing it up again now?

Well what’s going on in Washington currently?

Well POTUS has made a fairly major tactical mistake…

He’s not only asked a question nobody in Washington or many orher places want answered, he’s also said “on my desk in 90days” in a way that has raised expectations the report will not just provide him with answers, but the answers will be made public…

Look at it as a “Schrodinger’s Cat” experiment, every one is happy believing the “both alive and dead” hypothesis that can be maintained indefinately as long as nobody takes the lid off the box… Only some one who has not thought it through has said “time to lift the lid”… Opps, that’s not what anyone else wants to happen.

Their hope as it’s being dragged back from the long grass would be to “reboil the cabbage”. That is take those pig stupid lacking in actual logic arguments such as “if not wet market then lab” and slap fresh lipstick on them as well as conveniently ignoring any data points that do not fit their chosen narative to fit the agenda.

Well by accident or design the dear Dr has made all of that way way more difficult. In fact it means that to keep the agenda wanted by various parts of Washington that the UoB findings will have to be not just addressed and answered but addressed in a much broader sense.

As Tatütata had pointed out, it opens a rather awkward and inconvenient series of cans of worms…

The issue behind it all though is rather broader in scope,

1, Scientists usually want evidence based answers.

2, Politicians never want evidenced based answers, because that ties them down and forces their hand.

The reality is that politicians want cheap and easy solutions to the agenders they have, that keep the money flowing in and can be blaimed on others should evidence of harm etc come to light…

So is the Dear Dr stiring it up deliberately himself or has he been put up to it some how…

echo June 5, 2021 11:18 AM

@moderator

Why has my post on Pentagon policy been deleted? I am assuming the worst of motivations before you reply/don’t reply.

This deletion puts two further links on an old example of sexism in the military and a new article today on use of pronouns in doubt.

Winter June 5, 2021 11:57 AM

@echo
“Why has my post on Pentagon policy been deleted? I am assuming the worst of motivations before you reply/don’t reply.”

First rule of moderating: Moderators do not have to justify their decisions.

I don’t know the actual reason your comment disappeared, but I must say your comment was formulated in such a way that I could not understand what you wanted to say. It was also open to many interpretations. A lot of these interpretations would justify deletion.

BTW, I have had comments removed too. No big deal. Moderating is a tough job and I can get carried away or chose the wrong words myself.

Winter June 5, 2021 12:01 PM

@Clive
” Only some one who has not thought it through has said “time to lift the lid”… Opps, that’s not what anyone else wants to happen.”

Like the Spanish flu originating in Oklahoma?

Hedo June 5, 2021 2:49 PM

This is a TECHNOLOGY blog and I wonder why some of you out there think that they are high IQ individuals (judging by their ego) when they continuously post about garbage such as politics????? Comrades, you are lost. Strayed. This is not a politics blog.
Capiche?

I have been wondering this myself, (as noted by some other participants above),
if ICMP does not have ports associated with it (only TCP and UDP and a few other, less common oddball protocols), then how does the communicating occur? Even the Pings, or Error messages have to be “delivered” somehow. How do you “carry” or “communicate”, or “relay” ANY message using a/any network if you have an IP address but no destination port? Even zero is a port, or number 7, echo, gets logged a lot. I mean, the whole pinging business, “R U There?”, No reply/stealth, or “Yes I’m here” and so forth, just how do you have a “portless” communication/messaging??? Anyone? Please enlighten some of us. Much appreciated.

Clive Robinson June 5, 2021 3:57 PM

@ Hedo,

I have been wondering this myself, …,
if ICMP does not have ports associated with it (only TCP and UDP and a few other, less common oddball protocols), then how does the communicating occur?

Because of the IP transport protocol that carries them.

The IP protocol contains traffic managment fields, routing fields (source and destination IP addresses) and the all important “Protocol field” that identifies to a higher layer in the neywork stack which protocol the payload is,

ICMP=1, TCP=6, UDP=17, etc.

This stuff is very very easy to lookup and can be found in a myriad of places not just as specifications via IETF[1] RFC’s[2] but blogs, books and even source code.

The author Jermy Bentham for instance has written “TCP/IP Lean : Web servers for Embeded Systems”. There are atleast two editions and both will not just tell you what you want to know but supply source code in C for an 8086 Mothetboard and Network card, or MicroChip PIC microcontroler, down to the physical layer protocol of “Serial Line Internet Protocol”(SLIP) but the “driver code” for the serial hardware as well.

Then there are the “Steven’s Books” of “TCP/IP Illustrated” in three volumes

Also the multi volume “Unix Network Programing” and multi volume “Internetworking With TCP/IP” written with various other authors.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Engineering_Task_Force

[2] https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards

SpaceLifeForm June 5, 2021 4:08 PM

@ Hedo

It is actually possible to run an ICMP Tunnel. But, it will not be reliable.

TCP is not the path to do so. The handshakes will reveal.

But, it is certainly possible to communicate between two or more darknet servers using UDP and random ports.

Possible does not mean simple or easy.

One way that has been used is UDP port 53 DNS traffic. Which is not a random port, and most ISPs log that, because they intercept/log UDP port 53 traffic. See DNS tunnel. The reason UDP port 53 is used is because it usually will get thru a firewall in both directions.

Heavy, unexpected UDP port 53 traffic should be a klaxon call for Blue team. It is a hint that there is a problem.

Clive Robinson June 5, 2021 5:00 PM

@ FA,

Ever said “Why the latitude?” it has a different meaning as in “freedom of movment”.

As others have noted in the past I’ve a habit of playing word games in my posts (puns etc), many don’t see them but some do, and with good reason

@Wael and I found you could use word games as an obfuscated communications channel on this blog for covert communications (Shakespeare Sonnets was just one way). @Wael went on with @Ratio to develop other methods for such channels using unused thus non printing “Unicode Transformation Formatting”(UTF) codes. Others still use variations on these methods to send information across this blog as can be seen when OSInt was being done to identify certain people tying up court time with nonsense voting challenges (one ended up with a real estate video confirming where one of them lived because she was daft enough to have a photo of her and another of the idiots drinking wine in the kitchen).

Because at the end of the day there is a difference between Moderation and Censorship, and a curious mind can find significant latitude inbetween.

SpaceLifeForm June 5, 2021 5:23 PM

@ Hedo, Clive

One can communicate via a timing channel.

Low bandwidth.

You send packet. My router can respond with ICMP port unreachable.

Or I just drop.

To Drop, or Not to Drop. Tis the question.

One IP packet at a time, One Bit at a time.

David Rudling June 5, 2021 5:35 PM

@Hedo

This is a TECHNOLOGY blog ...... This is not a politics blog.

Actually the title “Schneier on Security” rather gives away that this is a SECURITY blog.
If you believe that Security is just technology then you urgently need to read “Security Engineering” by Ross Anderson recently published in its third edition.

Our host Bruce states clearly “I am a public-interest technologist, working at the intersection of security, technology, and people.”
Accepting people as one leg of his triad necessarily lets in peoples’ views known as politics. Although the moderators try hard to keep out the more intemperate personal attacks that politics sadly engenders, as an Englishman I am always impressed by Americans’ constitutionally protected right to free speech. This is rare and unfortunately becoming rarer amongst nations.
I have always considered it a great pity that François-Marie Arouet (aka Voltaire) never actually said “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Weather June 5, 2021 5:40 PM

@hedo
IP header sends it to a address, telling the keneral to not reply, with network card in probmesucic mode, IP for routing, TCP,UDP or foxgue for application layer.
That’s what I got from there replies, if wireshark is set to replied not proscmous mode, the keneral will drop it before userland, you could write your own patch, harder on windows.

Ha thanks for that info slf,clive

echo June 5, 2021 6:37 PM

@Winter

First rule of moderating: Moderators do not have to justify their decisions.

I don’t know the actual reason your comment disappeared, but I must say your comment was formulated in such a way that I could not understand what you wanted to say. It was also open to many interpretations. A lot of these interpretations would justify deletion.

My post was focused on science and law and military capability and capacity. Anyone vaguely familiar with the relevant topic would pick up exactly what I said and know why I said it. There wasn’t much room for interpretation at all.

I do know my law and if anyone got scared because I mentioned one time I pushed an initiative and this ended up being news for weeks in mainstream US media and US tech media they need a therapist. And yes it did become law in spite of constitutionalists but then the person publicly pushing it was an effective barrister.

When it involves discrimination issues I always expect an answer in full. A none answer can be an answer in itself. I strongly suspect I am correct on the law. The owner of the blog has a job at Harvard Law School. He could have run it past one of his colleagues. IF he did and I have no reason to assume he did and that answer was different I would begin questioning who my friends were. Either way I would expect an explanation in full if that was the case.

@David Rdling

Although the moderators try hard to keep out the more intemperate personal attacks that politics sadly engenders, as an Englishman I am always impressed by Americans’ constitutionally protected right to free speech.

You don’t know what you are talking about. See second paragraph above. Yes, I budged the needle on the US constitution. US lawyers and activists can spend their entire careers only seeing that happen once. I did it and I’m neither a lawyer nor a US citizen! I still have the paperwork proving it.

US “freedom of speech” is responsible for many stupidities and sins. It may be used cover by people with evil intent as a cover for their actions whether this is to promote or influence harm of feed misinformation for giggles which leads to harm or inflames other citizens which unsprupulous politicians use as an excuse to roll back others rights. This is why the European tradition is “qualified free speech”.

The biggest proponents in the UK at least of “freedom of speech” are those who believe in “freedom of speech for themselves” and if they are pulled up then go from television studio to television studio and media outlet to media outlet complaining they have been “silenced”. Oh, if only the rest of us could be so effectively silenced. But either way there are some issues which are not up for debate nor for sale. Human rights are human rights.

echo June 5, 2021 7:33 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/jun/05/naomi-wolf-banned-twitter-spreading-vaccine-myths

Some supporters criticised the ban, claiming it was the result of US government pressure and a blow to free speech, and called for her account to be reinstated. Twitter has said the suspension is permanent and no appeal will be allowed.

This is a curious one. Naomi Wolfe can be one of those love her or hate her people. A lot of unpleasant people would be happy seeing her taken down because of her public support for LGBT people. However, she is high profile and influential and her anti-vaxxer misinformation is not something which should be propogated.

Twitter is wise to put a block on anti-vaxxer misinformation. Allegations of government pressure and a blow to free speech are neither here nor there. The law and precedent already exists. If Twitter hosted content which became a platform which exploited vulnerable people and a threat to life they could be closed down. The fact that Twitter is a high profile and widely used interactive platform makes the risks higher which I suspect was one motivation for this.

Twitter should do something about their moderation policies on hate speech though. The fact that some politicians and officials in public office are allowed to continue to use Twitter as a marketing platform while actively rolling back human rights is the elephant in the room. Much like Youtube there is a yawning gap between corporate positioning and follow through.

Another country with constitutionally enshrined “freedom of speech” and LGBT repression? Russia.

http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-03.htm

Article 29
1. Everyone shall be guaranteed the freedom of ideas and speech.

2. The propaganda or agitation instigating social, racial, national or religious hatred and strife shall not be allowed. The propaganda of social, racial, national, religious or linguistic supremacy shall be banned.

3. No one may be forced to express his views and convictions or to reject them.

4. Everyone shall have the right to freely look for, receive, transmit, produce and distribute information by any legal way. The list of data comprising state secrets shall be determined by a federal law.

5. The freedom of mass communication shall be guaranteed. Censorship shall be banned.

Clive Robinson June 5, 2021 7:39 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm, Hedo, Weather,

To Drop, or Not to Drop. Tis the question.

Ah Shakespeare twice in just a few hours. Mind you, you would probably not believe the number of smutty,crude, rude if not socially untreatable versions of the next line 😉

But back to the subject in hand.

Many will have heard of “port knocking” but do not realise that generally that is a TCP protocol “subliminal channel”[1] and has a lot of issues, including fairly easy tracing due to Syn-Ack bidirectional handshaking. Whilst you can use UDP ports as they are “fire and forget” as opposed to “reliable” they again are “up the stack” where they are more obvious and more easily blocked. ICMP works at a lower level and whilst it can be blocked it is less obvious than TCP or UDP, it also has the advantage of being able to haul large quantities of data “tacked on the end”.

The use of IP however can not be blocked, you first have to accept it at the bottom of the networking stack to check it to see if it should be blocked, thus host based firewalls do not stop it (something all Windows users should take on board). Also most of the header is redundant and can be faked easily. For instance the “source address” has no value in the delivery process so can hold any value, also the IP packet can be launched withva faked source address from most places up-stream of the host at the destination address.

Quite a number of network stack implementations are ambiguous at the lower levels, thus the “knock” code can be hidden in the network card device driver as a “translator” to pass fake traffic up the host stack that never originated on the actual wire. So from an attackers perspective it can be used to get around perimiter firewalls etc.

I’ve yet to see others do this but I’ve had quite a bit of fun in the past doing such things…

It will be interesting to see if and when it gets reported in the wild (I kind of stopped looking over a decade and a half ago).

[1] with 20-20 hindsight the idea behind Gustavus Simmons’ “Subliminal Channels” are “obvious”. However back in 1984 when he published about them they were a surprise to many. I was one who knew about the “linguistic version” based on looking into the history of how the “Code Talkers” came about. There is a whole history of “criminal lingo” such as “Cockney Rhyming Slang” that is “obvious in it’s use” but not it’s meaning. One is a “Richard” from “Richard the third” many assume quite incorectly that what rhyms with the unsaid “third” is not what you might find deposited on the street by an animal. Whilst crimina “lingo” or “patois” enables messages to be hidden it is in no way “covert”. Over the centuries criminals did develop “covert” communications, especially prisoners under continuous surveillance. Which is probably why Gustavus Simmons described it via what he called the “Prisoners’ Problem” (not to be confused with the entirely different “Prisoners Dilemma”). As is often the case where “criminals lead” “the authorities follow”, and they have adopted similar liguistic covert chanbels and you will find it as part of “Spycraft, fieldcraft” along with many other criminal talants such as slight of hand for “pass offs” etc.

What Gustavus Simmons’ “Subliminal Channels” brought to cryptography was covert channels that can be used to communicate secretly in normal looking communication over an insecure channel. Interestingly from the technology perspective his covert channels were “found” in digital signature crypto systems, due to the fact that all digital signiture systems have a very high degree of “in-band” redundancy, which most traditional crypto systems do not have.

Who's afraid of the big bad snitchosaurus June 5, 2021 7:50 PM

Neither look back or up.

Ears are for listening but the eyes are for studying.

lurker June 5, 2021 8:53 PM

@Clive
Schrödinger’s cat was a quantum beast. Its life or death depended on Einstein’s God throwing dice. The Sars-CoV-2 virus has however analogue form in many shades of grey. No gambling deities need apply.

The probability that it originated from bats is close to unity. We know with certainty that it freely mutates in the wild. Whether or not it was forced to mutate by outsourced gain of function research is a secret obscured by the fog of war. I do not expect that fog to suddenly lift in 90 days from now. Some who know the secret could sooner than expected take it with them to the grave.

echo June 5, 2021 10:26 PM

https://www.reuters.com/technology/nigeria-indefinitely-suspends-twitter-operations-information-minister-2021-06-04/

Nigeria said on Friday it had indefinitely suspended Twitter’s activities, two days after the social media giant removed a post from President Muhammadu Buhari that threatened to punish regional secessionists.

[..]

On Wednesday, the U.S. tech firm said Buhari’s post threatening to punish groups blamed for attacks on government buildings had violated Twitter’s “abusive behaviour” policy.

[…]

Demonstrators calling for police reform had used social media to organise, raise money and share alleged proof of police harassment. Twitter’s chief executive, Jack Dorsey, tweeted to encourage his followers to donate.

In the protests’ wake, Mohammed called for “some form of regulation” on social media to combat “fake news”.

This is another curious one but from the other side of the fence. I have no idea about the situation in Nigeria or what Nigerias’s governance or political situation is like.

I do note the UK government has a home secretary who was found guilty of bullying staff and who is trying to push through law banning public protest and a government trying to defang judicial review which has existed for 400 years. The same home secretary and government pushed an instruction which caused police to attack women holding a vigil for a woman killed by a police officer. Yet, the UK government doesn’t see its tweets deleted. Perhaps because the UK government is better at phrasing things?

In Nigeria LGBT people can receive a sentence of death by stoning.

In the UK a leading public figure and LGBT campaigner has had to leave their home this week because of death threats due in part to the more bigoted elements on Twitter their moderation policy continues to ignore. Would Twitter’s CEO Jack Dorsey care to comment?

SpaceLifeForm June 5, 2021 11:36 PM

@ mattblaze, pwnallthethings, name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons

Insanity via pillow. Matt, sorry, no way to fair use capture your point from your tweet, so I will quote the entire tweet. I’m sure you do not mind. But is it insightful, and funny IMO. I may be biased.

hxtps://threader.app/thread/1400818279292284931

So this lindell pcap thing is an amazing fractal of idiocy

Like, ok, where to even start with this. It starts by saying PCAPs can’t be faked. Which, no. Not even close. Pcaps not only can be faked, but regularly are for training.

Got to love the old hacker technique “I downloaded some public records from the website” but also just incredible that even though they’re *literally downloading* something they still couldn’t cobble together an actual PCAP file of, yknow, downloading it or something.

hxtps://twitter.com/mattblaze/status/1401312400427700226

Summary of recent evidence:

“How do you know the election was stolen?”

“Space aliens told me.”

“Space aliens.”

“Yes.”

“How do you know they were space aliens?”

“What else would they be if they came from space?”

SpaceLifeForm June 6, 2021 12:39 AM

@ Clive, Hedo, Weather

You actually can do the port knocking with ICMP, but not reliable.

UDP is better. TCP works even better, but must never respond to the SYN packet.

The key is to use iambic pentameter.

SpaceLifeForm June 6, 2021 1:24 AM

@ ALL

Ok. I been pondering this thought for some time now (many weeks), and I am starting to see others thinking the same way.

Are the ransomware attacks actually staged, and in reality, a way to launder money?

Or to pay off blackmail?

How about if you know who the next victim is going to be, and your short their stock?

I’m not buying the explanation from colpipe. Too easy. Too convenient.

MarkH June 6, 2021 2:09 AM

@Clive, lurker, Winter:

The Barcelona report is (a) intriguing and (b) worthy of much skeptical caution.

Sewage samples include material from a vast variety of sources; RT-PCR tests are known to show positive results in response to non-target chemicals.

We have some interesting data, but what does it MEAN?

N.B. Hospitals retain certain specimen and tissue samples. If the virus was in reality circulating among the human population in early 2019 Europe, medical samples should corroborate that. Have they?

Weather June 6, 2021 2:16 AM

@ Clive, Hedo ,slf
Does Novell have a protocol number for IP header. If deep packet inspection doesn’t drop the packet, you could make your own for port knocking, would wireshark show a packet if IP CRC correct but the rest scrambled? In the industry how many loggers have filters applied instead of catch it all?

Clive Robinson June 6, 2021 2:43 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

I’ve not seen the “biting My Pillow” saga so I can not say what nonsense the man in charge is funding.

But the history of “the product” is full of false claims and nonsense that officials in various agencies have called out.

I assume their must by the law of very small numbers be an honest person being paid in My Pillow at some point in time. But I suspect the area under the curve of their remuneration/tenure to be fairly close to zero if not a singularity.

To be honest from looking at other things I’m realy surprised My Pillow is still in business, so the question of “independence” arises.

But I doubt any documentary maker is going to be looking there, after all it would not suit “The Network” managment or be an advertising draw. So yet another question of “independence” arises.

But then these “experts” all claim to have “worked for the Government” but do not say in what area and “have multiple degrees” but do not say in what subject/s or from where…

Under one view every one who has paid tax on earned income has “worked for the Government” as for multiple degrees I gather the liberal US system works on a “points make prizes” basis and “double spending” alows you to put one set of points into multiple degrees in different subjects.

So I would think that “gaming the system” would be possible if not probable for people of a certain mentality.

But I remember there was a scandle a few years back involving quite a number of degrees issued to US Gov employees, apparently the places they aquired them were shall we say more than a bit iffy and in many cases nolonger exist.

Robin June 6, 2021 2:43 AM

@MarkH, here is one paper:

Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the prepandemic period in Italy
(https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300891620974755) but there is an expression of concern over the peer review. It looks convincing to me but I am in no position to judge correctly.

Long story short – between September 2019 and Marchh 2020 the group had taken 959 blood samples across all Italy for a study on lung cancer and found SARS-CoV-2 RBD-specific antibodies in 111 of them, mostly in Lombardy, but also from other parts of Italy. Some of these clearly predated the official declarations of Covid and suggest Covid was circulating widely in the summer of 2019.

They also say: “A first article reported a case of a patient hospitalized for hemoptysis with no etiologic diagnosis in an intensive care unit in Paris, France, in December 2019.10 Retrospective molecular analysis on the stored nasopharyngeal swab confirmed the diagnosis of SARS-CoV-2 infection. A second study by Harvard University showed a relevant increase of hospital traffic in the Wuhan region, evaluated by satellite imagery, and COVID-19 symptoms–related queries in search engines, since autumn 2019.11 These findings suggest that the virus may have already been circulating at the time of the outbreak in several countries.”

Make of that what you can.

Robin June 6, 2021 2:58 AM

Covid origin debate seems to have come down to a binary choice between lab-leak or freak of nature. Nicholas Wade has an essay in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists that pushes, or at least urges consideration of, the lab-leak hypothesis.
(ht tps://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/)

It’s worth a read, not least to discover some conflicts of interest and, for me at least, to find out that there were weaknesses in some lab protocols that are disturbing.

However he also notes, in passing:

“The bat coronaviruses of the Yunnan caves can infect people directly. In April 2012 six miners clearing bat guano from the Mojiang mine contracted severe pneumonia with COVID-19-like symptoms and three eventually died.

So who else, besides miners excavating bat guano, comes into particularly close contact with bat coronaviruses? Well, coronavirus researchers do. (The Wuhan research) group collected more than 1,300 bat samples during some eight visits to the Mojiang cave between 2012 and 2015, and there were doubtless many expeditions to other Yunnan caves.”

He supposes it is possible that researchers were infected and passed on the virus but not as part of a failure of lab security.

Clive Robinson June 6, 2021 3:00 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

Are the ransomware attacks actually staged, and in reality, a way to launder money?

With ColPipe, the way it is set up and by which companies, I would be surprised if you were not suspicious.

However there are other reasons to pay up,

1, No tax to pay.
2, Use somebody elses money.

If you think back to 9/11 one of the buildings was “over insured” and with more than one insurer. Thus the building owner claimed the full amount from each insurer and made a nice profit on the deal. Likewise some of the employers had large “life policies” on their employees that the employees and their families were totaly unaware of. Again a very nice “windfall” bonus to the balance sheet etc.

Thus I suspect if you look for evidence of questionable if not illegal behaviour with ColPipe I would be very suprised if you did not find it, some if not all of the companies behind it have been found guilty and fined in court on multiple occasions.

The murky setup is such that it would make finding a “Directing Mind” not just difficult but deliberately impossible.

So yeah you are not the only one who has that “raised short hair” feeling at the back of their neck.,

Clive Robinson June 6, 2021 4:22 AM

@ Robin,

So who else, besides miners excavating bat guano, comes into particularly close contact with bat coronaviruses?

Anyone who kills or captures them, including farmers hard pushed for income due to other “live stock issues”.

Also those that “prepare them” for food or traditional medicine. Which is a lot of people in China, it’s one of the primary reasons the wet-market came under suspicion.

The problem is that “bush meat” is like “drugs” if you try to stop it you might stop the public supply, but not the demand. So the supply goes “underground” and prices go up, which as demand is still not satisfied makes bush meat supply more and more lucrative thus profitable and attracts in organised crime, who “pay off” officials who then turn blind eyes to the issue.

In all the bally who, one fact gets overlooked a lot, Wuhan is a nexus city for a large region where travel and trade interconect in a very major way and then goes national, transnational and international rather rapidly.

In epidemic modeling you almost always assume that disease will originate or switch from minor to major spread in such places.

To put it another way if the lab did not exist, the probability that Wuhan would have been an outbreak center would be about the same anyway. So statistically the presence of the lab is at best very minor.

Am I saying the lab is ruled out? No we’ve had serious lab leaks in the UK a number of times in living memory. But to make claims “it must be the lab as it’s not the wet market” which many have done is ludicrous, things just do not work that way in real life.

Likewise the claims that lab staff got sick and spread it. There is mounting evidence from analysis of cometcial satellite imagery and other open information sources that says there was increasing levels of sickness around way more than a month before the reported sickness of lab staff.

One of the problems with analysing this sort of data is that it’s all interconnected like a net, not like the roots of a tree. This makes things difficult because it’s easy to see the data in ways that look meaningful but are not thus totaly erroneous conclusions can be made.

To see why, do a little thought experiment. Imagine a large flat floor space with a fishing net spread across it, all the knots are of the same hight. Pick one up and suddenly it appears to be more meaningfull by the way the other knots appear to flow away from it. Now think of what would happen if the floor is not flat but randomly bumpy, some knots will be randomly higher. But again other knots appear closer and higher around it, lift it up and those knots get closer together and higher. It’s all to easy to think you have found the center, when in fact you’ve just got some random and basically insignificant pount and “promoted it” by picking it up and in the process drawing other knots closer together beneath it in what looks like a very good match for a “selectivity curve”.

There are a whole bunch of other very similar “gotchas” that are not so easy to visualize thus harder to get seen for what they are and ruled out.

The big problem we have is not only is the floor very uneven but it’s in an unlit room and all we can see is the small area where we are pointing the flash light.

You would think that we would spot these problems and rule them out. Well in the main you would be wrong, you would be amazed at just how many accepted papers even with the daya sets available get not just written, but peer reviewed and accepted and then become quoted in other papers and build a cognative bias up that will last for years in a research domain before a preponderance of contradicting evidence finally cause a re-evaluation.

echo June 6, 2021 6:39 AM

Dido Harding is floating plans to apply for the job of head of NHS England? The same NHS England whose patient data is going to be sold off without a GDPR compliant consent mechanism? That NHS England? The same NHS England currently throwing disabled people, LGBT people, old people, children, and people with mental health issues under the bus? That NHS England?

UK healthcare from regulation to provision to professional standards has too many issues to list. One of the few good things you can say about it is it’s cheap.

When worlds collide.

Then there’s the cops…

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/police-emails-show-dodgy-data-was-used-to-sell-unsafe-mental-distress-scheme-to-nhs/

Emails released by a police force show how “hugely inaccurate” data was used to persuade NHS trusts across England to sign up to a mental health scheme branded unethical, unlawful and unsafe by disabled activists.

My impression of the police is that they are generally only useful for scraping drunks off the pavement with a shovel. Prosecuting crime by state actors or white collar crime seems beyond them. To have police poke their noses into issues like this when they don’t have trauma training or support skills or can’t even manage basic safeguarding is pretty much asking for trouble. That’s before you get into “silverback gorilla culture” as one report called it or their own personal political views and social attitudes getting in the way.

What interests me is the views and attitudes of state actors in unguarded moments and the display of skills and knowledge they do or do not have.

Winter June 6, 2021 7:41 AM

@Clive
“Anyone who kills or captures them, including farmers hard pushed for income due to other “live stock issues”.”

You forgot to mention anyone who kill or eats animals who have been in contact with bats or bat guano.

Robin June 6, 2021 8:05 AM

@Clive
“Anyone who kills or captures them, including farmers hard pushed for income due to other “live stock issues”.

Yes, and in my brief quote I missed out the context that Wade presents, that Yunnan and Wuhan are 1500km apart, with no firm records of cases between the two. If the transmission had been part and parcel of ‘normal’ interactions between humans and bats some cases would be expected elsewhere, but the outbreak appeared (important word, that) to originate in Wuhan, thus raising the question: why does a virus found in Yunnan turn up as a disease in Wuhan?

The possibility of researchers carrying and transmitting it unwittingly is an option to put alongside a lab-leak due to poor safety controls.

MarkH June 6, 2021 9:45 AM

@Robin:

Thanks for the link to the Italy paper, and your thoughtful comments.

There’s a big difference between evidence of Covid circulation in early 2019 and near the end of 2019 … the latter fits more plausibly with other available information.

If the virus was in Europe in early 2019, then the whole picture of propagation would need to be revised, and science would face the question of why a big regional outbreak wasn’t seen there one year earlier than actually occurred.

As Carl Sagan used to say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Sewage systems are literally catch-alls, especially where there is not a rigorous separation of stormwater drainage from sanitary sewage. They carry a witch’s brew of organic compounds.

It’s worth noting that Spain has more than two dozen bat species, and that remains, saliva and excretions of bats can find their way into a sewage treatment system. Could a species there have been carrying a coronavirus which is a close cousin to SARS-CoV-2, but harmless to people?

I don’t know how probable that is, but it’s the sort of thing that could trigger false positive results. The Barcelona data must be viewed with skeptical caution, unless corroborated by independent evidence.

Clive Robinson June 6, 2021 3:09 PM

@ Robin, MarkH,

Yes, and in my brief quote I missed out the context that Wade presents, that Yunnan and Wuhan are 1500km apart, with no firm records of cases between the two. If the transmission had been part and parcel of ‘normal’ interactions between humans and bats some cases would be expected elsewhere, but the outbreak appeared (important word, that) to originate in Wuhan, thus raising the question: why does a virus found in Yunnan turn up as a disease in Wuhan?

You’ve left out an important factor, as have nearly all people, including those who desperately want it to be a Bio-Engineered Weapon out of a Chinese Lab, so they can have a war etc.

Importantly it applies to the early 2019 observations, tests and resulting information as well (which hopefully will increase with time).

Which is “strain lethality” and “strain virulence” combined with rate of mutation.

The first thing to understand is SARS-2 is unusual, in that it avoids an evolutionary trap that happens so often it’s considered normal or typical. A trap which worked well for pathogens untill as little as fifty years ago.

The trap was to cause symptoms that would draw people together whilst they were infectious. Thus mammals when infected would suffer the chills etc whilst still infectious that drew them to other mammals thus causing infectious spread.

The upside of this eveloutionary trap was it caused the rapid spread of infection. The traditional downside and why it was a trap is in the longer term it causes pathogens to become increasingly less leathal etc.

Put there has been a “state change” which in evolutionary time scales is in effect a “Step Change”. Modern Western society has increasing numbers of singletons many lipng on their own. So any signs of sickness normally results in self issolation during the infectious period. Thus pathogens spread less rapidly even though there is a vastly increased population density. So typical pathogens are trapped by rapid changes in mankinds behaviours [1][2].

SARS-2 is not typical. If you are infected you become most infectious before you start to feel sick. I fully expect to see this sort of changed pathogen behaviour increase as a viable response to the social changes where at the first sign of illness people issolate.

Consider what this means in terms of spread by travel through travel hubs. Normally if you feel ill delaying travel is not a problem. Thus you keep the infection to yourself or local. If as is the case with SARS-2 you don’t feel ill you travel. In modern society the time you come into contact with most people is when you travel in shared transportation, “boats, planes, busses and trains” are all very high density very high contact places. Thus you would expect to see infection spread these days in “hops” along major travel routes. With the hops being several hundred or even thousands of miles appart.

Think about those photographs from space at night that show population density by the density of illumination. Well people travel in hops through those places and mostly not in between.

Thus saying “1500km apart” is realy not relevant to disease spread these days.

But when combined with SARS-2 atypical behaviour the effect is significantly magnified, COVID in reality is “the travelers plague” it’s developed a new evolutionary advantage that other pathogens just do not have.

There is a major side effect to this which many miss, even professionals.

Pathogens have “mutation rates” they are often incorectly specified in terms of time, because in pathogens that behave “typically” that’s an acceptable fudge that makes modelling easier to do.

The reality is mutation is based on probability, thus each infectious person has a small probability they are going to create a mutated strain. So the more people infected at any given point in time the greater the probability of mutation.

Thus mutation is going to happen where people are in greatest contact with each other, which these days is with those who travel or have older life styles with multigenerational families and or high density housing with shared fascilities due to poverty and manual labour occupations.

So consider the fact that SARS-2 started of fairly benign and traveled with tourism and manual labourous. It then mutated most likely in transit or at a travel nexus, such as Wuhan.

Lifestyles in Southern Europe are still agrarian based and people live in dense multigenerational homes.

Now consider the very rapid spread and mutation in South Africa, Brazil and India.

A case can thus be easily made that SARS-2 did originate in those caves as far back as 2018 and was fairly benign thus traveled widely. At some point in it’s travels it mutated into a less benign form which was when it started to cause increased hospitalisations etc and finally became recognised for what it was a novel disease. It could have happened anywhere but it was most likely to happen at or associated with travel thus travel hubs.

The so called “Kent VoC” or “UK varient” we know started on a major travel route and followed it fairly rapidly and then only slowely spread out from there. Similar SARS-2 outbreaks have all occured in high human contact environments and traveld rapidly.

Wuhan got unlucky, as Kent UK did, and as has been shown and most of the other serious vatients likewise.

If people start doing the probabilty graphs then they will find the most likely oragin of SARS-2 was not Wuhan, but Wuhan was were a more serious mutation got a toe hold at exactly the wrong point in time, when Chinese New Year occured and traveling was so intense that human contact was so high it spread out like wildfire.

The limited evidence we have and the probabilities and certain social behaviours (bush meat) make a lab escape way way way less probable than “travel”. In fact nearly all the evidence from Wuhan on points a massive finger at,

1, SARS-2 atypical behaviour
2, Contact through travel

It’s only later that community spread runs rampant in certain social environments such as high density occupancy in high density housing.

Oh and as both New Zeland and Australia have found SARS-2 spreads in high density housing called hotels even though people are supposadly “issolated” they are infact not. The same was seen early on with the “floating petrie dishes” that cruise ships are.

The evidence for another cause of the outbreak other than the Wuhan lab is increasing day by day, the fact people do not want to acknowledge it is “very human”.

It’s the reason “ambulance chasers lawyers” exist. People are hurt emotionaly and they want to blaim others and “get vengence” etc.

I’m on record as saying there is no such thing as an accident, only lack of observation and the time to process the information arising from observation. Whilst we can slightly improve observation and response times, the way to reduce these events is by “mitigation” plain and simple. But as we’ve seen with “mask wearing” even though it works and works well it becomes “political” very very quickly thus becomes rapidly toxic and polarizing.

Remember there was not a flu season 2020-2021 because we took simple mitigations[1].

Thus I for one will continue to wear a mask whenever I’m likely to get within 10m of people out doors or continuously indoors. As I’ve mentioned befor on this blog long before SARS-2 when I cycled to work and had my own office where I turned the heating down and kept the windows open I never used to get even the sniffles let alone colds or the flu. Perhaps we should start viewing such illnesses in the way venerial disease once was, signs of a sinfull and dirty existance 😉

[1] It’s not just increasing issolation due to being ill. The 2020-2021 winter flu season was predicted to be a nasty one for various reasons. But flu did not happen in the Northern Hemisphere. Two main reasons, lockdown and the “Hands, face, space, ventilate”. Our usual “filthy habits” the flu virus relied upon for transmission were broken it failed to propergate thus mutate and flu season effectively did not happen. Which I don’t know how many hundreds of thousands ot millions of people that became COVID cases needing hospital care own their survival to. As the care they received was possible because the healthcare system was not saturated with hospitalized flu cases. Hence I hope society learns to stick with “Hands, Face, Space, Ventilate” it will continue to save lives for years to come.

[2] In part there is another reason why issolation is more prevelant these days in the Western World and it’s something we are going to have to think carefully about. Untill recently work was by “man-power” often necesitating lots of people to be in closed confined work places. Well the use of various force multipliers means less “man-power” is required, also the move from tangable physical work to intangable information work means people do not have to be close together. In fact there are scientists working on different continents, who have never met in person actively colabarating more productively then they have at any other point in mankinds history. Work is changing and the “physical distance” factor creates the eveloutionary trap for pathogens that need close proximity.

Tõnis June 6, 2021 3:58 PM

@SpaceLifeForm,

“Ok. I been pondering this thought for some time now (many weeks), and I am starting to see others thinking the same way.

Are the ransomware attacks actually staged, and in reality, a way to launder money?

Or to pay off blackmail?”

I’m leaning toward that it’s are more likely a way to crack down, close up, inhibit, impede etc. the internet when it comes to uses that frustrate tyrants:

“The new directive applies not just to cases or investigations involving ransomware but a host of related scourges, including:

Counter anti-virus services
Illicit online forums or marketplaces
Cryptocurrency exchanges
Bulletproof hosting services
Botnets
Online money laundering services” [emphasis mine]

(from https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/justice-department-tells-prosecutors-to-closely-track-ransomware-cases/)

Here is how this dialectic scheme could play out:

  1. Shadow government agency distributes ransomware relentlessly
  2. Massive citizens’ outcry ensues as the public grows weary of this nonsense
  3. Tyrants acting in the name of government “rescue” everyone from the alleged “bad guys” by eliminating or at least destabilizing bulletproof hosting services’ servers and online “money laundering” (i.e. hard or impossible to regulate) financial services for lawful uses/users.

I predict this is “gun control for the internet” on steroids with more stifling/censorship of speech coming up. Put on your damn dust masks and get in line for your experimental gene therapy injections!

Clive Robinson June 6, 2021 5:12 PM

@ echo,

Not every one knows who Baroness “Typhoid” Dido Harding is, or why she might also be called “Poison Ivy”.

Lets’s just say she has taken “inept” to new hights or should it be lows…

Of course being as thick as a “yard of lard” has never been an impediment to those who marry their way into positions of office even if they are a sinecure without the usuall attendent backhander payments money is just one form of remuneration, for others with narcistic streaks vacuous status can be more desirable.

Tony Blair was known to surround himself with incompetents who flaunted status, did his bidding and fell on their swords if things went wrong Teflon Tony was not going to let his “Vosene bottle” shoulders get marked by such things.

Obviously Blow Jo has rather less charisma than road kill and could not hold down a job sitting outside a locked back door with a crimson and gold commissioners uniform as he’s just not smart enough for that.

So it takes little imagination to work out what sort of people he would employ as “fall guys” to do his bidding. I guess you could say Baroness “Typhoid” Dido would be considered a floater on that saucer of congealing sour milk.

Lest people think I’m being a little harsh, I’ll let the words of anorher be read,

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/10/typhoid-dido-proves-fluent-in-management-bollocks-and-contradiction

Oh if proof were needed she is a prime example of why some interns are not worth the money you don’t pay them.

JonKnowsNothing June 6, 2021 5:34 PM

@ Clive, Robin, MarkH

re: Staying Masked in the USA

For years in many other countries they wore masks to prevent flu and colds. We can now see old pictures and realize 2 things:

1, the masks helped prevent some illness
2, they wore them incorrectly; often as a fashion accessory

In the USA, in those days, if you had a mask on you were likely to have the SWAT team descend on you and there were some rumblings about making face coverings illegal. Some of that was aimed at particular religious groups.

Now, it’s a mostly accepted that wearing a mask (single or better double) can save you, your nearest and dearest and a bunch of strangers, from several airborne diseases.

The problem is that a good hunk of the population still doesn’t accept this and wearing a mask in public can be risky. On recent excursions that I’ve had to take out of my safe zone, I have to stop and inspect the door posters to see what sort of mask requirements are listed.

There are 2:

  • Wear a Mask
  • Do Not Wear a Mask

If you enter an establishment with the wrong facial covering you can expect some Bother. In the case of the second option, I turn around an go the other way. There isn’t anything in that location I would want regardless of how many coupons they put in the paper for cheap bread.

fwiw: My recent statistic numbers show a slight increase in cases from May 30th. Not huge numbers but doubling every 1-2 days. These could be outliers or delayed reporting. California Open COVID Mut Season starts 06 15 2021.

Clive Robinson June 6, 2021 6:32 PM

@ Weather,

At least the troll stayed away for three days for a simi desculsion.

I’ve watched the various comments about the troll and had a look back over when in a broader sense.

They appear to be a “weekend warrior” type as well as US public holidays.

Thus they might be in the US and have a day job to do. Or they might just figure the Moderator does not work those days thus their inanity stays longer.

the real summer June 6, 2021 7:42 PM

@Clive Robinson

“those who desperately want it to be a Bio-Engineered Weapon out of a Chinese Lab, so they can have a war etc”

I was careful to point out that it’s not just the CCP at fault.
There’s no way for a layman to determine if it was a “weapon”; that’s a straw man.
Gain-of-Function work for whatever reason is the question.
The only one who appears desperate here is you.
The virus appeared, out of the blue, fully optimised for infecting humans – That’s not normal.
The CCP has not been able to find a zoonotic source – that’s not normal either.
It has numerous engineered components – the easiest of which for a layman to understand is the furin cleavage insertion.
There is an ongoing process to uncover the paperwork trail that shows virologist desperately trying to shut down the obvious coincidence that this thing appeared in the same place as the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
How do we move forward and stop this dangerous viral research activity if we do not get to the root of the matter?
You have, apparently, chosen to promote the CCP’s version of events above impartial (currently incomplete) scientific enquiry.
It may be years before we get to the truth but we probably will in the end nomatter how many CCP schills deflect and evade …
I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes if the truth come out.
Have a nice day.

echo June 6, 2021 9:40 PM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corruption-uk-boris-johnson-council-of-europe-b1859988.html

The UK is still a member of the Council of Europe, which is separate to and predates the European Union, and monitors the human rights and rule of law situation in states.

The 42 per cent compliance rate in the report represents a significant backsliding on the UK’s previous record, representing the worst rating the UK has ever achieved a GRECO’s evaluation rounds, which started in 2000. Successive British governments have previously always met between 75 per cent and 100 per cent of previous recommendations.

Aside from the weakness of the ministerial employment watchdog ACOBA and the limited autonomy of the PM’s ethics advisor, the report says the government is insufficiently transparent about meetings by senior civil servants – some of whom have been implicated in affairs such as the Greensill Scandal.

This would not be the first time government and senior civil servants have presented one form of reality on the official record while another form of reality happens behind this event horizon. The fact we have the utterly corrupt regime we have today and austerity throws this kind of thing into sharper focus.

Careerism and ineptitude riddle the system and yes this is having an atrocious human rights impact.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/kcc-at-breaking-point-and-set-to-sue-government-248523/

Kent County Council is set to sue Priti Patel’s Home Office after being left unable to properly care for increasing numbers of vulnerable child asylum seekers – with one unaccompanied Vietnamese girl disappearing last week.

The authority warned they are at “breaking point” with a proposed scheme to house the young people across the UK never materialising.

[…]

Matt Dunkley, Kent’s corporate director of children’s services, said: “We are at breaking point. Underneath this there is a humanitarian crisis involving traumatised young people who deserve the best support, and we are being forced into a standoff with the government over their care and wellbeing.”

When a Tory run council sues a Tory run government you know it’s bad.

<

blockquote>KCC will be hoping its threat to sue the government over the Home Secretary’s failure to to use existing powers to direct other councils to take on child asylum seekers will not actually get to court.

Instead, it will hope the prospect will concentrate the mind of the Home Office to come up with some kind of solution to the escalating crisis the council faces.

It is more a case of political brinkmanship. Neither the government nor KCC will want to get bogged down in a costly and potentially lengthy court case while numbers arriving IN Kent in small boats and dinghies increase.,/blockquote>

A parliamentary majority is not a mandate. It may coincide with a mandate but is not a mandate in itself. This is something parliament and the goverment have forgotten. I have no idea what motivated this journalist to speculate nor do I know the mind of Kent County Council. But I personally view bad governance as a form of wickedness and wickedness must be opposed.

Winter June 7, 2021 1:42 AM

@summer
“The virus appeared, out of the blue, fully optimised for infecting humans – That’s not normal.”

But it happens every decade, or more, and has done so for millenniums. Aids (2 diseases), Ebola, Spanish Flu, Marburg, bubonic plague, Syphilis, …. .

Furthermore, SARS-2 is the third attempt, after SARS-2 and MERS.

And every single time it happens, people like you claim the disease was created and spread by evil humans that are despised by people like you.

Clive Robinson June 7, 2021 2:13 AM

@ the real summer,

You say,

I was careful to point out that it’s not just the CCP at fault.

And then,

You have, apparently, chosen to promote the CCP’s version of events above impartial (currently incomplete) scientific enquiry.

You will find I did not mention the CCP at all and only China in geographical context of traval and labour supply.

So stop lying.

You also say I’m not impartial when I was pointing out there is a lot of things people are getting wrong because they are too blinded by their own partiality…

So you accuse me of the opposit of what I am actually doing, how very transparently unreasoned…

But you go on to say,

How do we move forward and stop this dangerous viral research activity if we do not get to the root of the matter?

Showing intense partiality and extream cognative bias…

You then go on and make the clasic cognatively biased zelots mistake,

It may be years before we get to the truth but we probably will in the end nomatter how many CCP schills deflect and evade …
I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes if the truth come out.

Making threats etc whilst hiding behind a false identity how very silly and by the way illegal…

But lets be honest, you’ve entirely failed to reason about the viral behaviour and how it has actually been shown to have behaved.

Whilst most of what you claim and believe has no evidence to support it, and is at best congecture of ‘The CCP must have done it’ because “coincidence”…

Kind of shows your compleat lack of ability to reason or follow anything close to logic or the scientific method. In reality much closer to the vigilante thug method of incitement my “knee jerk” statments.

The thing is there is evidence for all the behaviours of the virus I’ve given it’s happening around us right now and it’s documented… Something you avoid very noticably, which begs the question “Why?”.

The fact that you want, what you admit is “coincidence”, to be “altetnative facts” to support the conclusion you’ve already made is to use a quaint phrase, “arse about face”.

This trying to move from unsupported conclusion to cause is not the way science works, not even for a first approximation hypothesis.

It is as I’ve pointed out in the past the major cause as to why all those “miscarriages of justice” happen.

Your process is,

1, Gain of function is bad,
2, CCP does Gain of function,
3, Therefore CCP is bad,
4, Therefore CCP must be Guilty.

Do you see any problems with that thinking?

Probably not which is why you then go on with,

5, Look at anything that makes CCP look guilty regardless if true or not.
6, Deliberatly ignore all evidence that does not support your “CCP is Guilty” view.
7, Derid, abuse and threaten any one who points out you are wrong to do so.

Whilst many agree with your first point is true, and why many countries have banned such research. You fail to make your case even for that, you also fail to show any evidence as to why it’s being done in China.

The reason you fail to give such evidence is your cognative bias and resulting process.

I also suspect why you have such a cognative bias is your own inabilities that you deflect onto others with your contemptuous,

There’s no way for a layman to determine if it was a “weapon”

Which as others would no doubt tell you if you asked politely and did not threaten, is a strong indicator you do not understand “gain of function” or the logical arguments involved about it.

That is “you believe” in the religious / cult sense that it is bad, because you can not logically arrive at that conclusion because of your lack of knowledge or reason.

Your resulting fervor makes you think you have moral superiority which is a fairly clear indicator of your societal culture. Therefore you automatically assume if you can not understand it, “obviously” in your limited view point nor can anyone else. Which is obviously false to anyone not so cognatively biased.

Thus we get the rest of your –what might politely be called– unreasoned behaviour… And it’s of the sort that often gets attributed to self promoting “Social Justice Warriors” and those who are “Anti-vaxxers” and “Anti-maskers” and acolytes of QAnon, Alt-Right and similar discredited “cult thinking” denialists.

You think “gain of function is bad” fine, but make your case for why in a balanced and reasoned way, and don’t assume people are stupid or incapable of rrason or logic.

You actually have not attempted to show if “gain of function” could be anything other than as you say “coincidence”. So you need to demonstrate why other evidence supported arguments are false with very high probability first.

Nor have you shown gain of function experiments are in anyway causal or even could be causal.

Nor have you in anyway shown why gain of function might be involved or the drivers behind that possibility.

Which obviously invites the question “What are you hiding or trying to hide?”…

I think people are going to want answers to that question above anything else. And no your current “arm wavery” will not do.

You’ve painted yourself into a corner with your soap boxing, false accusations etc, how are you going to get out of it?

Are you even capable of doing so?

Winter June 7, 2021 2:43 AM

@Clive
“You’ve painted yourself into a corner with your soap boxing, false accusations etc, how are you going to get out of it?”

I would expect a lot of “vandalism” on this blog following these comments. They is what happened the lasts months in similar situations.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons June 7, 2021 4:15 AM

@ Clive
The investigation into the zoonotic source of the SARS-nCoV-2 is complicated by two factors, one is the scrubbing of the wet market believed to be the source and the other is credible evidence that a level 4 lab containment protocols failed. A record of the failure would have been obvious and not easily buried–but not impossible. The real issue is a weaponized version, via gain of function, is non-sensical. Bio-weapons are by definition, specific; their affects are considered to be limited parametrically. If not, then such a creation would be a genocide by suicide.

Gain of function is often a mechanism for anti-viral research. So a highly contagious virus that is for the most part non-deterministic, does not make for a good weapon. Many of the co-morbidities are shared by people that would attempt to benefit from such an instrument, and, would have had a quick to produce anti-viral to profit from on the outset. Though vaccinations are not new, an anti-viral that is a prophylactic would have surely made an appearance before a vaccine.

Oh, and I suggest that the comment question be changed, something that all must know about Bruce but by inference and in tandem contextually. Something from one of his books, like;
“The ____ tree is a method to document ____ as explored in several books on ____.”
Or;
“Secrets, Lies, ____ is not just a technological treaties, it has a human ______ component too.”

Clive Robinson June 7, 2021 4:48 AM

@ Winter, Moderator,

I would expect a lot of “vandalism” on this blog following these comments.

Sadly that is the way some people behave, and it has a certain inevitability.

It’s not the first time I’ve been attacked without any cause other than someone elses poor reasoning and bias. As you point out they tend to throw the toys out of the pram when their obvious failings, insults etc get pointed out to them especialy when it’s in their own words, so denial is shall we say problematical.

Anoying though the “vandalism” is to just about everyone else the vandal feels “entitled” to further denonstrate their inadequacies, in not just their logic and reasoning, but other areas of their cognition and life in general, but especially in the area of “impulse control”.

As you know when I present a hypothesis I supply any reasoning or evidence, either then if new or more specific, or based on that in previous comments to this blog and easily sourced information.

I’ve no issue with people arguing about evidence or reasoning if they likewise use evidence and reasoning. I’m not omniscient thus as all of us do I work from a limited set of knowledge and experience, that may be out of date quickly, such is the nature of reasoned progress.

People may not like my conclusions, hey I don’t like some expressed by others but I give my reasoning and evidence if it’s not common knowledge in the domain.

However as you might also remember the attacks have almost always ben “against the man” not “against the reasoning or knowledge”. Such behaviour is often considered very poor form and for good reason, it’s at best not constructive.

However I do not subscribe to “turn the other cheek” it’s very poor advice and generaly used by those who tend towards oppression not reason.

It’s almost always a mantra of the “Do as I say, not as I do” mentality backed by a “might is right” self entitlement thus a “we are the good guys” delusion that coupled with circular reasoning leads,to bullying and far worse atrocities as history has repeatedly shown.

When younger I had to learn a very hard lesson in life, that the only thing such a bullying mentality understands is “actions have consequences”, and it they are lucky the consequences are only “measure for measure”, not what is probably more deserved.

Those that do not learn from the response, and modify their behaviour, have what would commonly be called a “mental defect”. That generaly gets classified under the narcissistic / sociopathic / psychopathic lables for “personaliry disorders” that in recent times are depreciated due to more precise classification by more selective attributes.

The saliant point though, is that such disorders are still classified as non curable. So unlikely to cease being an issue to the person or the society around them. Worse the behaviours most likely will escalate, irrespective of what a victim does other than fall on their knees and grovel.

Thus ignoring them, turning the other cheek, or showing them up for what they are will trigger a revenge response, it is unavoidable. The reason they do this is to try and show that they are not impotent, when in fact that is exactly what they are demonstrating loud and clear. You see this same behaviour in six year olds who basically have not yet gained empathy.

About the only plus side is the sooner such a person is called out for what they are, the less invested they are, thus the less sense of loss of status / power they feel in the society they are in. Thus the less shame / impotence they have, with a fairly predictable result, as the adulation they see as the result of status / power is a desired goal.

As with cowards they generaly go into avoidence mode and seek adulation status / power where it is more forth coming. Often where they have not been made to feel impotent already. Thus they seek a society to suround themselves with where they get what they consider their due from the gullible the meak and the weak. Or if you prefere a more biblical statment they seek out those who would say “For thy sake we are killed all the day long; We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter” (Romans 8:36).

If you have a more contemporary suggestion I’d be happy to listen and consider it.

Winter June 7, 2021 5:12 AM

@Clive
“Thus ignoring them, turning the other cheek, or showing them up for what they are will trigger a revenge response, it is unavoidable.”

People who are high on the Dark Triad scales (psychopaths, narcissist, sadists) are indeed next to incurable. In offline life, the best way to deal with them is to bannish them from your life completely.

Online, like in the comments section of a blog, they often cannot be blocked. Then only moderating and technological measures are available.

Giving in to a psychopath or sadist is totally useless. They only stop torturing you when you are dead.

Clive Robinson June 7, 2021 6:16 AM

@ name.withheld…,

… one is the scrubbing of the wet market believed to be the source…

Which is a point that realy annoys me because the wet market was always at best a guess based on locality and the worst of those early detected cases.

Based on what we currently know it’s probability was very very low anyway.

Under several years of international trade Chinese authorities had been pushing against “Bush Meat” in wet markets and the like.

As I’d previously noted the limiting of obvious supply does not in any way limit demand, all ir realy does is make supply more covert.

We know this from the “war on drugs” that goes back to atleast the Victorian Era, where opium was freely available in chemists etc. As the authorities pushed Opium Dens became more well established and criminality became significantly involved.

A realy prime example is why the FBI exists. Certain minorities got Prohibition put in place, as normal demand remained criminality got involved etc etc.

History has turned this wheel so often that to ignore it in any investigation would be boardering on the “criminally negligent”.

So the question that has to be answered is “Why are so many blind eyes being turned?”

The most obvious reply is “Agenders” they may be different for different parties but it accounts for the observed behaviours…

We know that,

1, There are many outlets for bush meat in large Chinese cities (markets, restaurants, medicine shops, private sales, etc).

2, Chinese authorities have pushed down on public bush meat sales.

3, Wuhan is a business hub (thus many restaurants, shops, offices where people meet).

4, Wuhan is a travel hub (thus many hotels, restaurants, shops, medicine outlets, etc where people meet).

5, Wuhan is a trade hub (thus many hotels, restaurants, shops, medicine outlets, trade points to be “supplied”).

6, Generaly crime is found in excess at points of trade and travel.

Thus what is the probability that the Wet-Market was the only possible point of infection outside of the lab?

It’s why the “if not wet market, must be lab” is compleatly ludicrous, it defies what we know about human behaviour and simple logic.

Whilst I’m not saying you can rule out either the wet market or lab, they are just two of very many places. Ruling out the majority of places shows either incompetence or agender bias.

No matter how much “arm-wavery” such people use it does not change either human history and known events their causal consequences or the facts.

Further “the absence of evidence” does not constitute a proof of innocence, just that “evidence” is not in consideration for some reason.

Anyone who has studied sampling theory knows that you miss more than you see, and you fill in the gaps by interpolation, or “low frequency averaging of the difference”. But if an event is of much lesser duration than the gap beyween samples then it can easily be gone for ever, lost in the noise.

The expected viability of SARS-2 outside of a host and above freezing point is short, especially if daylight is involved. Frequent washing down and movment of equipment and stock will remove even traces. Thus testing even a couple of days after a source of infection would have a low probability of detection with the probability decreasing fairly rapidly each day there after.

Thus what is the probability of actually having a positive test result from the wet market?

If you say vanishing to nothing for a singular event, then you would probably be not far off the mark.

Thus the “if not wet market” proposition is of such high probability it is effectively a “false proposition” and is being deliberately used as such to say “It’s the lab” by people with an agenda.

I’m sorry if that conclusion offends some people, but you can see how it is arived at and the premises on which it is built. If they have argument then they have to show the premises are not valid or the probability of them is considerably less than the “vanishingly small” they use.

echo June 7, 2021 7:35 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/07/infected-blood-scandal-did-ministers-know

A minister privately expressed concerns that Aids was being transmitted by contaminated blood products while the government publicly insisted there was no “conclusive evidence”, newly uncovered documents from 1983 show.

Among the victims of the contaminated blood scandal, which is the subject of a public inquiry, were 1,240 British haemophilia patients, most of whom have since died. They were infected with HIV in the 1980s through an untreated blood product known as Factor VIII.

In 1983, Ken Clarke, then a health minister, denied any threat was posed by Factor VIII. In one instance, on 14 November 1983, he told parliament: “There is no conclusive evidence that Aids is transmitted by blood products.”

However, documents discovered at the national archives by Jason Evans, whose father died after receiving contaminated blood and who founded the Factor 8 campaign, paint a contrasting picture.

Like I keep trying to ell people there is an official position on state governance issues including state institutions, the network comprising job titles and processes, policies and law and science which may or may not be up to date and has varying degrees of public availability and so on versus the reality behind closed doors. reputation, official narrative, careerism, secrecy, legal advice of varying quality which may or may not be in the public interest and may or may not be followed. You will also note the layers of organisation and people getting in the way of accountability. Yet more layers of official and unofficial garbage obscuring what was or was not known. You have to deal with multiple departmental and personal politics. Were they skilled? What was their attitude? Did they know or even have a mindset where they wanted to know? Who of all the people is alive or dead today/ what records were or were not kept? What can be discovered by a “capture it all” exercise? What will data mining reveal? What other direct and direct sources of evidence exist? How does a continuously moving timeline bury and obscure all these multiple points of view or even change peoples recollection and official narratives when inquiries begin?

This case is by no means a one off. For much of what passes for UK governance this is business as usual. The case I am working on involves this kind of pattern and even just documenting the outline would take an entire A4 page. Clarke is a QC and even lawyers in everyday practice can be equally inadequate which makes find the right lawyer very difficult at times. They are as bad as anyone because they have zero interest in citizens discovering how the system works in practice because they themselves make money off things being this way.

Winter June 7, 2021 10:00 AM

@Clive
“Wuhan is a business hub (thus many restaurants, shops, offices where people meet).”

Wuhan has a population of 11 million, the metropolitan population is 19 million. This is almost as large as NYC, and considerably larger than London and Paris. This is also one of the 9 most important cities in China.

Those who talk about “The” wet market think it is some provincial backwater and clearly have no idea what they are talking about. But we knew that already.

Winter June 7, 2021 11:49 AM

@summer
For an overview of the relentless attempts to get the lab origin on the table without any evidence.

ht tps://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-origin-of-sars-cov-2-revisited/

If, as I have, you’ve been paying attention to these things for a number of years, you know that, whenever there is a major outbreak, epidemic, or pandemic of infectious disease, one conspiracy theory always—and I do mean always—arises. That conspiracy theory is that the causative microbe was developed in a laboratory and/or escaped a laboratory. HIV, H1N1, the original SARS, Ebola virus, every single one of them gave birth to such conspiracy theories. Unsurprisingly, given its global scope and death toll, so it was with SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19.

Winter June 7, 2021 12:34 PM

@All
You will hear a lot about the Daily Mail story about an unpublished paper by British Professor Angus Dalgleish and Norwegian scientist Dr. Birger Sørensen, described in the story as being “set to be published in the Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery.” In this story, it is claimed that SARS-2 escaped from a (the) lab.

Note that:
1) It is published in a journal that does not publish sequence analysis, but biophysics

2) The paper does not contain new research, but is a review

3) It’s analysis of the probabilities is flawed.

The paper is completely debunked in:
ht tps://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-origin-of-sars-cov-2-revisited/

Robert June 7, 2021 6:31 PM

My Goodness, so much talk about Covid19 that we’re missing the biggest story of the weekend namely that the Encrypted Communications App “Anom” has been monitored by the FBI since its inception and has now been shut down.
Lot of criminals and their bankers and facilitators are wondering if there will be a knock on their door any minute.
Federal police the world over are rounding up more than just the usual suspects, this is big and I mean BIG.

Clive Robinson June 7, 2021 7:03 PM

@ the real summer,

Yet another scientific team weighs in

Have you actually read it, or are you just posting links you’ve been given by other blogs / articles / pieces?

In what you link to you will find,

“Yes, it could have happened randomly, through mutations. But do you believe that?” the authors of the study ask, adding “At the minimum, this fact—that the coronavirus, with all its random possibilities, took the rare and unnatural combination used by human researchers—implies that the leading theory for the origin of the coronavirus must be laboratory escape.”

Science is not about belief, if it was we would be thanking some deity for the man in the moon sending us cheese.

All that “rare and unnatural” nonsense is a rather sad attempt to make a probability sound not like a point on a distribution curve but some unicorn and pink elephant story about creation.

The level of gulability to believe that guff is frankly astounding and shows a failure in the K-12 teaching.

They are pulling the “argue backwards” from effect to cause which is the major underlying cause of miscarages of justice based on forensics.

They are saying CGG-CGG must be a sign it is “man made” well no.

Whilst it is rare it can happen naturally. The actual reason it is used in experiments is the “in-band signalling problem” what you might call the “C string issue”.

C strings use 0x00 to mark the end of a string, unlike Pascal strings that use an independent “character length count”. Whilst Pascal strings can use all 0x00…0xFF values in a string C can not it can only use 0x01…0xFF because the C libraries treat 0x00 “as special” but they do not have an escapping mechanism in the library (see HDLC sync escape protocols).

Genetic experiments have to use “in-band” not “out-of-band” signalling currently and there is no escaping mechanism. These are rules “for mans convenience” not “natures convenience” so CGG-CGG is an artificial constraint not a natural one.

The reason experimenters use it is not because it can not happen narurally IT CAN WITHOUT DOUBT, but because it is very rare. Thus if it’s found it takes little work for an experimenter to distinguish if it is a man made marker or a natural occurance…

Thus the authors are being deliberately disingenuous at a time that they think they can get their names “politically noticed” and thus get an undeserved boost to their careers, thus “Money, Power and Status”.

This is one of the expected side effects of US President Biden calling for a report on his desk in 90days, and why I warned about “event timing” just a few days ago.

You have fallen in the trap and you would not have known about it untill long after the Presidential Report had become “A matter of record”. Which I suspect quite a few lackluster Wanabe’s are going to be trying egged on by certen MSM interests like News International that are very “Trumpian” supporting.

Congratulations you’ve been used by Rupert “the bare faced liar” Murdoch to increase the reach of his empire.

How does that feel?

Clive Robinson June 7, 2021 7:20 PM

@ Robert, ALL,

My Goodness, so much talk about Covid19 that we’re missing the biggest story of the weekend namely that the Encrypted Communications App “Anom” has been monitored by the FBI since its inception and has now been shut down.

I’m guessing you are Australian or an Australian resident?

It’s not even big news there and has not broken a ripple most other places.

From the very very little I’ve seen I suspect it’s the usual problem of all Commercial Security Apps.

That is either it’s poor centralized KeyMan procedures or the “communications channel” ends on the same device as the “security end point” and this enables an attacker to effectivelt bypass the securiry end point in an “End Run Attack”.

What we need is “technical information” not “It’s the takedown of NSW fugative biker boss who fled to Istanbul” and similar “guset gripper” articals, pushed out by Rupert “the bare face liar” Murdoch for “political reasons”.

If you’ve any links to technical content then pop them up, otherwise there is little of interest as this will be the third or fourth time such attacks against encrypted smart devices in the past year or so.

lurker June 7, 2021 7:32 PM

@Robert: Anom just hit MSM here, and it seemed LEA booby-trapped “Secure” phone apps are becoming flavour of the month. Which begs the question, will the baddies get the message and move away from such temptations? Surely they’ve got the cash to buy their own in-house version that doesn’t touch an App-store…

Robert June 7, 2021 7:40 PM

@Clive, I’m sorry but I don’t have any detailed information.
The articles available suggest that the FBI has actually been in control of Anom rather then just monitoring / cracking the message system.
If the FBI created Anom and supplied it to the criminal underworld then that is big news

In the past, the FBI has dismantled encrypted platforms criminals used to communicate.

Operation Trojan Shield saw the FBI create a closed encrypted company, called ANOM, to fill this void and to target organised crime, drug trafficking and money laundering activities across the globe.

For over 18 months, ANOM’s criminal users unknowingly communicated on the system operated by FBI agents.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/crime/international-police-operation-huge-blow-to-organised-crime-35-arrests-3-7m-in-assets-seized-in-raids/

SpaceLifeForm June 7, 2021 8:04 PM

@ Robert, Clive, lurker

This story may be related to the ANOM story. Note: You need to read between the lines in order to spot what is not being said. Which is where the reality of the operation lies.

How the Bitcoin private key ended up in San Francisco.

Bad OpSec? Use of cloud? Combination? Darkside not really based in Russia?

There may have been another warrant before this one, but I’ve yet to find.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/u-s-recovers-millions-pipeline-ransom-because-hackers-mistake-n1269889

Clive Robinson June 7, 2021 9:51 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

How the Bitcoin private key ended up in San Francisco.

The Internet is in effrct a star or “All roads lead to Rome” network with the hub / Rome being the major switching nodesin the US.

I keep telling people to look at the real geo-physical map of the Internet, not the logical topology.

Primarily to work out where the real “choke points” are and who’s jurisdictions they fall under (UK, US, Australia for subsea cables, Canada, New Zealand for satellite foot prints). Lets put it this way if you are sitting in an Internet Café in downtown Beijing and send an Email or other electronic communication to some Bratva Bar in Moscow you might be very supprised to find it going the way it does, where Australia, the US and UK get to see it pass…

At all those points a MITM attack can be mounted and if you don’t take “extra crypto protections” read.

Which points to the start of an answer to,

Bad OpSec? Use of cloud? Combination?

Bad OpSec definately, though the question is in what way was it respondible. HumInt is probable, but via SigInt/ComInt, SigInt/ElInt giving rise to Traffic analysis to wetwork or something involving MICE and insiders or placed individuals.

The depth of SigInt these days is immense especially with the likes of security systems “using Amazon Ring” or similar “phoning home”, likewise any device with a “Smart Assistant” on it or even geo-tagging voa Apps, phoning home. Some form of “End Run” attack is probable if SigInt only. Whilst ElInt is possible it would not give the key but it would give a point for HumInt to enter into the picture. For all the repeated use of the XKCD cartoon and the “$5-00 Wrench” it’s still ammusing because it is painfully close to the truth. The expression “Ducking and Diving” having taken on new meaning this century as has “flanneling”.

As for,

Darkside not really based in Russia?

Yes and No, remember Darkside set it’s self up as a “full spectrum service agency” for a 25% cut of the take.

So it is more than possible that a US based individual, possibly even a ColPipe employee used Darkside’s services, and what has been grabbed is not Darkside’s money but the share of that of the US entity.

It’s entirely possible DarkSide sold out such an individual rather than grab the fall out of being made International Terrorists.

We can only speculate at this point in time due to, “too little information” to evaluate.

It’s currently within the realms of possability that the story could be one pieced together by a journalist from unrelated parts and asking the wrong questions, it would after all not be the first time that somebody has “Done a Bloomberg”…

SpaceLifeForm June 7, 2021 11:11 PM

@ Clive, ALL

My parser is working, but my lexical analyzer is throwing warnings.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/07/politics/colonial-pipeline-ransomware-recovered/index.html

“When Colonial was attacked on May 7, we quietly and quickly contacted the local FBI field offices in Atlanta and San Francisco, and prosecutors in Northern California and Washington D.C. to share with them what we knew at that time. The Department of Justice and FBI were instrumental in helping us to understand the threat actor and their tactics. Their efforts to hold these criminals accountable and bring them to justice are commendable,” Blount said.

Firstly, it would make no sense to immediately contact SF FBI office. They would contact ATL FBI first. Colpipe has no operations on west coast.

Secondly, there is no way they contacted any prosecutors at that point. None. It’s not their call to make. If there was contact with any prosecutors, that is a red flag.

More likely what happened is they called ATL FBI. Then with local FBI pressure, they actually looked at the traffic logs, and found unexpected traffic from SF. Then SF FBI got involved.

It will not surprise me that the traffic from SF was from the cloud (not mentioning names, but may be in San Jose area), and that there was a sealed warrant served on the cloud provider.

If the account was from a person in the US (say, former employee), that person may have already been arrested and handed over the private key.

If the account was from a person outside of the US, then likely the sealed warrant led to the private key from the data in the vps, or a MITM was set up.

BTW, this Blount dude does not have a good reputation with employees.

And it seems like he is trying to take undeserved credit to help his reputation.

We will learn more on Wednesday when Blount testifies.

There is way more to this story than appears.

https://homeland.house.gov/news/press-releases/homeland-security-committee-announces-hearing-with-colonial-pipeline-ceo-after-ransomware-cyber-attack

SpaceLifeForm June 8, 2021 12:57 AM

@ ALL

When you read comments in reverse, you learn to appreciate context.

Here @mattblaze proves the point that context is required.

Two tweets in reverse order.

Despite costing 50% more per foot it still makes sense to get the larger rolls, because changing paper is a pain.

Scratching my head…

Toilet paper?

Thermal paper?

Yellow paper tape?

Ah, here was the context. Still crazy.

Why photo printing is awful, part 971: Same paper (the different weights listed are a typo), 10′ roll for $27, 39’ roll for $169. Reverse-quantity discount.

David in Australia June 8, 2021 2:06 AM

Clive there are some aspects of the following you may appreciate

This is strangely familiar to what went down not long ago in Europe and discussed here. It’s almost dubious, given how similar.

Cops in Australia allege to have busted some huge organised crime
rings. Based on handing out an phone to criminals with encrypted messaging app invented by the police, distributed via undercover operatives.
They call the app they wrote ‘Anom’

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-08/fbi-afp-underworld-crime-bust-an0m-cash-drugs-murder/100197246

lurker June 8, 2021 2:22 AM

@Clive, @Robert, All
I have no acquaintance with any of the apprehended in the Anom case, but from MSM descriptions I hold to my opinion that these were not the sharpest knives in the drawer. BBC is reporting (soundbite only, should be text on their website) seizures worldwide totalling 3000kg drugs, $30M cash, which doesn’t sound much in the scheme of things. These small fry are too poor and/or too stupid to get good security. Will the small fry continue to get their “secure” apps booby-trapped from the Appstores? Will the LEAs make any useful effort to crack the big bad guys’ comms?

Clive Robinson June 8, 2021 4:37 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm, ALL,

My parser is working, but my lexical analyzer is throwing warnings.

My first reading of the CNN article was that it’s a “puff piece” trying to brag a success out of a failure.

The first part feels like “A nothing burger described as a banquet” by a new agency desperate to get some positive spin to justify it’s existance.

But is it actually trying to cover up something else?

I think the answer is yes, and it’s actually trying to cover up ColPipe senior managment’s significant failings.

Lets be honest, what has been recovered is a fraction of what went out the door. It’s described as millions to make it sound significant to those who only do superficial reading. The fact is a big wedge of cash has gone out the door bot just in ransom but costs to both ColPipe and the Tax payer through the FBI and having to mobilize drivers and pay overtime rates etc, etc. And what has come back? Well not realy even pocket change in comparison…

The reason that large wedge of cash went out the door in the first place was a compleate and utter security failing by senior managment at ColPipe. It realy is that simple even though they are trying to spin it otherwise.

Basically “the man in charge” has basically “done the neo-con thing” of cutting every cost they can to maximize profit that gets squirreled away as a money laundering tax evasion scheme for several other companies (similar to Enron tactics). Year by year cut after cut like the death of a thousand cuts.

As I’ve explained in the past “Defense Spending” is one of those awkward costs, in that “You, rarely know you’ve spent to much, but eventually you end up knowing you’ve spent to little because you get successfully attacked”.

I guess it’s no secret that senior managment at ColPipe not only spent way to little on “routien maintenance” but it’s also now clear they did not spend on security either. But importantly this was not “neglect cost saving” but “engineered cost saving” the man very deliberately weakened security to make layoffs and other savings to reduce system costs and increase workloads on individuals. Part of that stratagem would have been “To Big To Fail” that is the man in charge knew that should things blow up, the tax payer would step in and clean up the mess…

The thing about increasing workloads on individuals in that way, is you “increase the individuals reach” so if they make mistakes or go bad then the harm they can do is much much greater than it would otherwise be.

So to save a few pennies the man in charge put tens if not hundreds of millions of plant etc in the hands of just a very few people that he then went out of his way to antagonize just about every which way he could…

Does that sound like the basis of a plan for success, or the behaviour of a sadistic psychopath? With from the puff piece an added helping of narcissism…

Then surprise ColPipe got successfully attacked…

But when you get beyond the puffery you start finding a few details that make interesting reading.

1, Yes DarkSide was a full spectrum service provider.

2, Probably client was single individual.

3, Very probably totally inexperienced.

4, Very probably US based.

My guess so far,

“Disgruntled over worked employee, with too much reach went to DarkSide for pay back”.

I guess we will have to see how it plays out but that’s my guess on current very limited public information.

@ ALL,

OK folks, it’s your turn to make your guesses.

Shall we “Open a pool”?

Tõnis June 8, 2021 5:07 AM

@Winter,

“comment-380893

Propagating COVID-19 vaccine conspiracy theories.”

Yes, must silence anything that doesn’t coincide with the official version of events …

Clive Robinson June 8, 2021 5:23 AM

@ ALL,

Why the “2018” start date with this latest mass arrest?

Why not further back in time?”

Well personally I rather think it does go further back in time, but the Auz authorities are not going to admit to that.

Why? Have a think back to what legislation was “rammed through” back in 2018 and just about every one who objected got the rough shod treatment. Many put it down at the time to an “Ego war” with “Cotty in Marketing” throwing the toys out of the pram.

Are the dates just coincidental I rather suspect not.

I suspect things were well under way, and what had been an “Intel Only” excercise that could be kept hidden under the various Defence Acts revealed just how bad organised crime had got in Australia[1] and the wraps could nolonger be kept on it, it had become “actionable” but “illegaly gathered” so first step remove the “illegality” aspect with a quick bit of legislation…

[1] Remember there was all those issues over a CI who turned out to be a criminal lawyer… Just another indicator of the mess the Auz LEO’s are in.

Robert June 8, 2021 5:27 AM

@lurker unlike you I do know some of the people that were rounded up.
They certainly weren’t the sharpest tools in the shed BUT wrt what they did they were at the top of their game.
These guys were trafficking’s in $B worth of drugs. their operations and methods were global and certainly sophisticated for “drug dealers” lets be clear these guys were not Cryptologists. They had a tool which, for whatever reasons, they believed to be fool proof yet in the end they were the fools.
I can understand that the police would be laughing themselves silly if they did indeed create the Anom App but it’s one of these fool me once shame on you things, because you know that these guys won’t be fooled a second time. More to the point the Police have not reduced the demand for the Drugs they’ve simple reduced the competition (supply) of these drugs. Similarly they haven’t eliminated the demand for a fully encrypted secure communications app they just shown that anyone desiring this functionality needs to self provision or get their app from a trusted source.

Compare this with the difficulty that law enforcement faced breaking the Zodiac cypher. It’s a really bad cypher BUT just being different and unknown made it very difficult to break. For me the bottom line is that you don’t need (what we would consider) sophisticated cyphers rather you need reliable encryption systems with good tools for managing encryption keys and key changes.

Clive Robinson June 8, 2021 6:45 AM

@ lurker, ALL,

I hold to my opinion that these were not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Most criminals are not, especially those where violence is involved. However it does not mean they are not quite cunning in their own environment.

For years now I’ve been pointing out that criminals evolve as a species they respond to changes in their environment and to changes they observe in those who hunt them.

As such law enforcment are generally behind the curve for one reason or another but mainly resource issues. Politicians talk a good game about being tough on crime, but they don’t follow through with the money to make it happen. Which for the politician has a tripple advantage, they can keep on with the sound bites, they can rearange the deck chairs, and they can kick back cash to their favoured buddies (hence of the two crims and pollies the pollies are worse than the crims and the LEO’s realy should lock up the Politicians first in their crime prevention stratagy as the Politicians are like the Pimps in the sex trade).

As I pointed out years ago most criminals that get caught talk themseves into jail. For some reason they have the urge to “big it up” and “flap their gums” about how good they are. There is almost always someone who either hears it directly or second hand and passes it on to the police for the price of a pint, or other favours such as “blind eyes being turned”.

The smarter criminals stoped flapping their gums in public by starting their own “drinking dens” via night clubs and the like and thus the police had to start getting inside which was risky. The more prosperous criminals basically had private parties at there houses etc thus whilst police got lots of intel on the lower end of the criminal spectrum, what you might call “disorganized crime” they were not getting intel on “Serious organised crime”.

Thus technology came to the rescue or so the criminals thought. The Young Punks were “tech savy” more so than the police. Thus criminals started to gear up with two way radios and even radio jammers, some even started bugging the police. The police wised up but there was always new technology for the tech savy criminals to use that kept them ahead. This got a boost from “techno-nurds” who themselves are social misfits, thus easy for criminals to use to there advantage.

The more cunning criminals realised that police “observation” that was still the main way of getting intel back at the end of the last century could easily be foiled by the use of “Spy Techniques” developed during WWII but publicised in various books by those facing bleak retirments in the 1980’s thanks to idiot politicians (see Peter Wright). The Techno-nurds read the books and incorporated it into systems as “cleaver hacks” the criminals were quick to pick up on it, and the nurds made things simple.

The key feature that was missing was “OpSec” the more serious criminals are quite good at human level OpSec but technology was alien to them and the techno-nurds had no practical understanding of OpSec. So there was a gap between human and technical.

That’s where ComInt, ElInt and Traffic Analysis walked through the door. The problem is that the Security services are not the Police Forces.

The Security Services can do more or less what they like with regards Intel Gathering because “methods and sources” get “sanatised” to protect them before the Intel is moved to other agencies where it might become actionable. The result is the learning feed back loop is broken for the targets, they do not get to find out the “how” or the “when”.

You can if you study what went on with Enigma and the German U-Boat campaign clearly see what the disconnect does. All through the war Admiral Donitz had suspicions about his communications security but never any evidence that would have benifited him.

The Serious Organised Criminals were in the same position as long as only intel was being gathered on them. Put politicians are on average dumber than a stump when it comes to this sort of thing. Just like the criminals they love to crow loud and wide about how wonderful they are… Thus they don’t want Intel Gathering they want action drama the kicking down of doors half naked people draged out of the wreckage in hand cuffs and the like. The current UK Prime Minister when Mayor of London used to crave being in the action for self agrandisment…

The problem is that whilst the Security Services can sanitise their Intel gathering the Police legaly can not, “due process” requires “disclosure” and some lawyers have quite a good sixth sense about when the authorities are trying to keep things under wraps…

Well this past year or so has rather blown the wrapping off of the Secure Smart Device myth.

The smarter criminals will learn from it and there are two very basic lessons to learn from it.

1, Consumer Conveniance Smart Devices can not be secure, nor will the authorities alow them to become so.

2, History shows how with a little less convenience any insecure system can be used to carry secure communications.

3, History also shows how to do both Spy-Craft and the resulting Field-Craft quite safely, for those that put in the required effort.

4, There are ways using pencil and paper to have “Perfect security” if you follow the rules.

5, Human OpSec is way easier than Technical OpSec.

So I foresee the more thoughtfull Criminals getting the upper hand again for a while.

But as my father pointed out to me when I was quite a lot younger than I am today,

“If you are smart enough to commit the perfect crime, you are smart enough to earn more money honestly”.

And a thoughtful person will realise that at the end of the day it’s not actually committing “the crime” where you get caught, it’s all the stuff before and after which gets you caught. To not get caught after a crime is usually where all the problems occur. Yes you can avoid flapping your gums, but you still have the issue of “obtaining the proceeds” in a “Sanitized and safe way”.

Look at it this way, if you want a nice house and comfortable life style for thirty years you are going to need around 2million for the house and 50,000 a year there after inflation linked thus so a sanitized 10million that you then have to some how make safe from scrutiny as to how it was aquired. But that 10million is only going to be a fraction of what the crime gets you… So you are looking at maybe 100million / person in your perfect crime… Such crimes atract one heck of a lot of attention and a very great deal of scrutiny from both criminals and police alike…

Winter June 8, 2021 6:59 AM

@conspiracy theorist
“Yes, must silence anything that doesn’t coincide with the official version of events …”

You try to scare people into rejecting vaccination by claiming COVID-19 vaccines are a conspiracy to kill billions of people. That scare mongering will get vulnerable people killed.

Yes, I want to call out that murderous intend.

Tõnis June 8, 2021 7:13 AM

@Karen,

If there isn’t a terrorist under your bed who’s out to get you, there’s a virus so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.

“Hello Authorities, yes I’d like to report some people not living in fear … “
— @Winter

Winter June 8, 2021 8:36 AM

@conspiracy theorist
“there’s a virus so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.”

Like with Tuberculosis, or Aids. When you get the disease, it might be too late. So preventing infection is all there is.

There are many dead people from COVID-19, visit aany ICU or morgue, but where are all the dead bodies from vaccinations?

Tõnis June 8, 2021 8:45 AM

@Winter, where are all the dead bodies from the virus? It has greater than a 99% survival rate. And for that, the fearful (or those who feel the need to virtue signal) are taking experimental injections.

Winter June 8, 2021 9:06 AM

@conspiracy theorist
“It has greater than a 99% survival rate.”

1% of Americans dying is 3.3 million dead Americans. 1% of humans dying is 70 million dead people.

But 5% of those infected need to be hospitalized. When the hospitals are full, these people will die too, see what is happening in India. Now you are talking about 15 million dead Americans and 300 million gead people globally.

And I stil do not see the many people dying from vaccinations.

Goat June 8, 2021 9:37 AM

@SLF,All

Apologies for spreading misinformation Duckduckgo uses bing for the image search part as well. 🙁

Weather June 8, 2021 10:42 AM

I’ve created a program that tries to workout probably chars to the input of sha256. The search space is from 0x0a to 0x7f 118.
I tested this input
1956374592AJILWMNOPRfbvhiclwma
It found 22/30 chars from 87/118 range.
To speed things up programmed a rainbow table these two inputs use the same entry
$450Thisislong#whattag;
It found 21/23. Chars from 93/118
Try?9105Yn<[%#pbc
16/17. 91/118

Winter June 8, 2021 11:20 AM

@conspiracy theorist
“Here’s another article to help ease your fears:”

I talk to people who needed to care for COVID-19 patients. I do not need random people from the internet to

Tōnis June 8, 2021 12:15 PM

@Karen aka “Winter,”

I’ve talked to several who have been “hospitalized” … in the sense that they showed up at the hospital with a case of the sniffles and were told to go home and “quarantine” 🙄 for fourteen days. “Fortunately” their “symptoms” were “mild.” 🙄

lurker June 8, 2021 1:40 PM

@Clive, @Robert: Those caught by ANOM might have looked big in rural NSW, but there’ll be more wanting to fill their shoes. We read of 2 or 3 interceptions a year at ports around the world of 1 to 3 tons of product in a single TEU, shipped in kitset furniture, or bagged garden potting mix, &c. Loss of a single TEU through OpSec failure is just a cost of business. Very rarely do we see comms failures at the top level. No, I doubt they bothered to put in the time and effort to use PGP. It’s like @Clive says

with a little less convenience any insecure system can be used to carry secure communications.

Winter June 8, 2021 1:56 PM

@conspiracy theorist
“I’ve talked to several who have been “hospitalized” … in the sense that they showed up at the hospital with a case of the sniffles and were told to go home and “quarantine” ”

I talked to those who had to diagnose and care for those who could not survive without specialized care, and some of whom did not survive. And they did not think COVID-19 was a fake. They risked their lives, and many did die, to save these patients.

Meanwhile, people who never even took the effort to talk to a nurse or doctor who worked at a hospital comes claiming COVID-19 was not a disease,
but a conspiracy to force vaccines onto people to commit genocide.

Claiming all kind of nonsense about hospital care without even talking to those who had to do the work is simply showing willful, and murderous, ignorance, or rather, looking the other way when people in need a dying.

SpaceLifeForm June 8, 2021 2:48 PM

@ ALL

Operation Trojan Shield

Yes, criminals are dumb.

The Phantom Secure and Encrochat takedowns were not enough to provide a clue.

https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/akgkwj/operation-trojan-shield-anom-fbi-secret-phone-network

The FBI, AFP, and CHS built the Anom system in such a way that a master key silently attached itself to every message set through the app, enabling “law enforcement to decrypt and store the message as it is transmitted,” the document reads.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1402064204786511874.html

Forgot to mention how they did it. Every message sent on Anom sent an encrypted ‘BCC’ to an iBot server outside of the US (3rd party country), where it was decrypted, then re-encrypted with the FBI code. Then passed from another iBot to the user.

Tõnis June 8, 2021 2:52 PM

“@Tõnis:

You failed to edit your link to remove PII that you can be traced by.”

Thank you for the heads-up, but I won’t sweat it.

Tõnis

Tõnis June 8, 2021 2:58 PM

“@Tõnis:

You failed to edit your link to remove PII that you can be traced by.”

Thank you for the heads-up, but I won’t sweat it. Nothing bad will happen to me.

Tōnis

SpaceLifeForm June 8, 2021 3:15 PM

@ Goat, ALL

It was not intentional misinformation on your part, it was just that at the time, you were missing some information.

I knew you would connect dots and would find it. This is what research is all about.

I could have responded sooner with a link, but I got distracted with other research.

In fact, I would surmise that you did further research due to the fact that no one here immediately agreed with you.

Right?

Do your research folks. Do not assume you have all of the pieces of information upon first search. The odds are rarely high at first glance.

SpaceLifeForm June 8, 2021 3:53 PM

@ Weather

If you are making that good of progress at this point, what you are basically telling me is that sha256 is about as useful as md5.

I’m moving to a different hash like blake2.

SpaceLifeForm June 8, 2021 4:24 PM

@ Clive, lurker, ALL

Anom actually set up an organizational structure similar to Darkside. Cut of action.

To make it look legit and familiar to the criminals. Structure they would expect in organized crime.

More later.

Clive Robinson June 8, 2021 5:06 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm, ALL,

Yes, criminals are dumb.

So are the sales people…

In the US you have a very broad scope piece of legislation that gets called “Obstruction of Justice” the FBI tack it onto charge sheets the same way they do “Conspiracy to…” charges.

In essence these are used as a method of compulsion to get around 5th amendment and other rights US citizens “only” have. They are also a way to “make plea bargins happen” when there realy is no crime for a person to answer to.

So if you sell a product that some US LEO claims is “assisting criminals” then that puts you on the slipery slope that “Obstruction of Justice” has become.

Worse the US regards it’s justice system as “applying universally” that is you can be doing something quite legaly in your own country and being a fully law abiding up right tax paying citizen there. However if the US can get it’s hands on you by say diverting an aircraft or similar or waiting for you to leave your home nation for any reason then it will grab you and start proceadings against you… Whilst US citizens have some protective rights apparently non US citizens don’t…

It’s fairly clear from this latest encryption device debate that they intend to go down this route further…

Thus the question of how they will define “Obstruction” in the past with “Conspiracy” they have prosecuted people for being in the same room serving food, knowing full well that any conspirital conversation that might not have stopped was in a language that those they were prosecuting did not speak, so by any reasonable measure could not have been involved in…

Thus I can see “The war on crypto” taking a worse turn, such that even writing a document that describes how to use a cryptographic proceadure will become “Obstruction of Justice”. After all what impediment is there against the FBI and DoJ from “trying it on” and if not stopped get case law president (think back to FBI/DoJ -v- Apple).

@ ALL,

It’s interesting to note in the Wired article how everybodies communications were “routed abroad” and decrypted. Then except for those of some US Citizens were sent to the FBI…

There are lessons to be learned by everybody in this, not least do not trust any encrypted system you do not have 100% control over, and even then look out for attacks on the “plain text” side of the “security end point”.

As has been pointed out the likes of Amazon Ring and other CCTV devices “phone home” into or via the UD as do “Smart assistants” and increasingly any and every IoT and Smart device and entertainment system that can connect to a communications network.

Remember communications networks are any channel that can carry energy with information impressed upon it. That includes sound going down a corridor or metal pipes. It also includes those new fangled “Smart Meters” Governments and others are trying to push into peoples homes, where the “power signiture” of any electronics in your home travels down the household wiring to the Smart Meter that can be programed remotely to do all sorts of things over the mobile phone network. It’s been reported by some people doing “strip downs” of Smart Meters that there is a lot of odd circuitry rather more than needed for measuring power and implimenting “anti-tamper” functions. Others have pointed out that modern MEMS microphones are very small, dificult to spot and even harder to recognise thus some have drawn certain conclusions (no I’ve no idea either, othet than it’s easily technically possible).

And that’s all before we start looking at “offset radar” systems that use WiFi points in your neighbours home as an illuminator etc that even undergraduates are doing as projects these days. All have sufficient resolution to map not just your major movments as you move around your home but quite a few of your minor movments as well such as things you might be doing with your hands…

I guess it won’t be long before wearing a tin foil hat becomes “Obstruction of justice”…

Thankfully my traveling days are over for medical reasons, but the UK has an abomination of an extradition treaty with the US which should be of concern to everyone.

Weather June 8, 2021 5:24 PM

@slf
I can see the graph after the run and do better, just saying its obvious leaking info. Give me more time to work on the parser, at present it just signal, use the last ten chars, or a different SIG use last four plus forward four.
Like I posted before I’m having trouble converting vision to C code.
It will get better, but yes sha2 is after sha1 ,maybe I’ve got the message from ten years ago, but probably not.

Robert June 8, 2021 9:01 PM

@Clive Re: Criminals are dumb

It’s easy to say this but we also need to acknowledge that these “dumb” individuals are successfully running a $B revenue per year enterprise which generates margins of over 90%.
There are very few legitimate businesses that can create these sorts of margins. And when you add to this revenue growth rates of $100M’s per year you’re talking about serious enterprises with all the staff and logistical problems associated with running any $B enterprise.

So these may not be Technical wizzes capable of understanding the failure modes of exotic encryption systems but they are individuals capable of running $B businesses.

think of it this way, there’s absolutely nothing to stop any of their employees / associates from breaking ranks and going into competition AND there are hundreds of millions easy profit for anyone that simply bypasses the middle man. This makes drugs not an easy business to run, they need their own rules and their own rule enforcement procedures (in that sense, it’s kind of like running a small country) their are plenty of countries with smaller GDP’s than the illegal drug business.

Are these criminals dumb?
By many definitions the answer is a big yes but they are successfully running a very large and very profitable business, that gains some respect from me even if they’re flat out stupid per our intelligence tests.

JonKnowsNothing June 8, 2021 9:35 PM

@All

MSM report that the US Department of Homeland Security helicopter low-buzzed a group of protestors. The wind storm from the blades showered the group with wind-shrapnel: dirt, debris.

The DHS claimed they were using their Public Address system to talk with the group. Per the report if they did, no one heard them above the whine and roar of the rotor engines.

Not exactly the Apocalypse Now, Napalm in the Morning scene.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning…

A bit farther down, the report indicates that the police have use of an LRAD.

  • … police, according to witnesses, used a sound amplification device called a Long Range Acoustic Device, or LRAD, at the site to make announcements — raising questions about why the helicopter was necessary at all.

Makes one wonder:

  • What setting will the police & DHS use on the LRAD so they can be heard over the helicopter engine noise as it low sweeps the group?

===

ht tps://theintercept.com/2021/06/08/line-3-pipeline-helicopter-dhs-protest/

ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device
ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device#United_States

  • The Long Range Acoustic Device (LRAD) is an acoustic hailing device, sound cannon and sonic weapon[1] developed by LRAD Corporation. Law enforcement organizations and the manufacturer claim that LRAD systems are primarily designed for long-range communications[2] however, the device has an extremely high decibel capacity, and is controversially used as a less-lethal weapon for crowd control.

ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_Now
(url fractured to prevent autorun)

SpaceLifeForm June 9, 2021 12:25 AM

@ Clive, lurker, ALL

Always read the footnotes

From https://www.vice.com/en/article/akgkwj/operation-trojan-shield-anom-fbi-secret-phone-network

scroll down and find the warrant. Connect the dots. Serious dots.

TCOs are Transnational Crime Organisations. These 3 footnotes are telling.

Fn 5

As explained further herein, devices located in the United States are not obtained by the second FBI-owned server because the U.S. is geo-fenced.

Fn 6

Australia’s judicial order to intercept Anom communications did not allow for the sharing of the content with foreign partners.

Fn 7

Information reviewed on the platform has revealed law enforcement sensitive information passed to TCOs, such as reports and warrants. TCOs have also been notified of anticipated enforcement actions against the TCO or other criminal associates.

Klaus Schwab June 9, 2021 4:57 AM

Imo cyber attacks will be used as false flags for complete control over the internet. They can not afford to put entire countries in black out for an extended period because the chaos that will follow will make the (surviving) population more independent. If it happens once most people will become preppers.
If only the internet blacks out for some time (due to false flag cyber attacks) essential logistics can still be managed using landlines and paperwork. They can then bring a new version of the internet back without all the opposition sites (like in china) and make it illegal to run independent servers, using the cyber terrorism as justification. This will basically silense all opposition as there is no mainstream opposition anymore.

KlausSchwab June 9, 2021 5:01 AM

Encore
From “Event 201” to “Cyber Polygon”: The WEF’s Simulation of a Coming “Cyber Pandemic”

Last year, the World Economic Forum teamed up with the Russian government and global banks to run a high-profile cyberattack simulation that targeted the financial industry, an actual event that would pave the way for a “reset” of the global economy. The simulation, named Cyber Polygon, may have been more than a typical planning exercise and bears similarities to the WEF-sponsored pandemic simulation Event 201 that briefly preceded the COVID-19 crisis.

https://unlimitedhangout.com/2021/02/investigative-reports/from-event-201-to-cyber-polygon-the-wefs-simulation-of-a-coming-cyber-pandemic/

Some will say that a “cyberpandemic” is an inevitable consequence of the quickly developing hi-tech world in which we live, but it still fair to point out that 2021 is the year that many have been predicting for the financial destruction of big institutions that will lead to new economic systems that align with the Great Reset. The inevitable collapse of the global banking system, resulting from the off-the-charts corruption and fraud that has run rampant for decades, is likely to be conducted through a controlled collapse, one that would allow wealthy bankers and elites, such as those that participated in Cyber Polygon, to avoid responsibility for their economic pillaging and criminal activity.

This is especially true for Cyber Polygon participant Deutsche Bank, whose inevitable collapse has been openly discussed for years due to the bank’s extreme corruption, fraud, and massive exposure to derivatives. In late 2019, months before the COVID-19 crisis began, the CEO of Deutsche Bank warned that central banks no longer had tools that could adequately respond to the next “economic crisis.” It is certainly telling that entirely new banking systems, such as Sberbank’s soon-to-be-launched digital monetary monopoly, began to be developed just as it began to be publicly acknowledged that central banks’ traditional means of responding to economic calamities were no longer viable.

A massive cyberattack, such as that simulated at Cyber Polygon 2020, would allow faceless hackers to be blamed for economic collapse, thus absolving the real financial criminals of responsibility. Furthermore, due to the difficult nature of investigating hacks and the ability of intelligence agencies to frame other nation states for hacks they in fact committed themselves, any boogeyman of choice can be blamed, whether a “domestic terror” group or a country unaligned with the WEF (for now, at least) like Iran or North Korea. Between the well-placed warnings, simulations, and the clear benefit for the global elite intent on a Great Reset, Cyber Polygon 2020 appears to have served not only its publicly stated purpose but its own ulterior motives.

Winter June 9, 2021 7:08 AM

@goat
“Apologies to @Winter from their side.”

When evil people hate me, I am probably doing something right. 😉

Winter June 9, 2021 10:35 AM

Repost due to creepypasta

@goat
“Apologies to @Winter from their side.”

When evil people hate me, I am probably doing something right. 😉

flat June 9, 2021 3:02 PM

(At their current vaccination rate, China) “would have fully vaccinated the entire UK population in little more than six days”

hxtps://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01545-3

Winter June 9, 2021 3:05 PM

@Moderator
comment-381084 [summer June 9, 2021 1:22 PM ]

Propagating COVID-19 conspiracy theories.

Winter June 9, 2021 3:16 PM

@flat
The UK is not able to produce or import enough vaccine to do this. That is partly because most of the production capacity has been moved to Asia. Because that is more efficient/cheaper.

Question is, did we indeed save money, after accounting for the current pandemic?

SpaceLifeForm June 9, 2021 3:24 PM

@ Bruce, Moderator

Please add a link at top of page that jumps to after last comment.

Like to the ‘Leave a comment’ line.

Then, one can scroll in reverse.

And avoid the zeroes and ones crap.

Clive Robinson June 9, 2021 4:19 PM

@ the real summer,

I read the Nikolai Petrovsky quote some time ago, it struck me then as “inadequate”. I gather I was not the only one.

There is to much politics wanting it to be from the lab, with the result much much else and rather more probable is being ignored because of it.

Sorry that you are one of those so desperate for it to be the lab that you ignore simple logic and probability as well as being completely unscientific by cherry picking your way back from effect to cause.

It’s not rational behaviour, but I should not be surprised there is a lot of that going on in the world, the reason is people feel inadiquate and as though they are drowning in information, this grasp at any straw they get told will give them certainty.

As I’ve already told you News Corp International nominally owned and controled by the known committer of purjury who instructed teams of people to carry out illegal surveillance on people Rupert Murdoch has been spreading much in the way of very questionable infornation for political reasons involving the far right in US politics amongst other things.

Stop clutching and put some effort into actually doing a little reading of peer reviewed papers not opinion pieces in mostly wanabe news websites.

SpaceLifeForm June 9, 2021 4:46 PM

@ Winter (real), Bruce, Moderator

Yes, the last 100 comments is useful.

But, they cross articles, so context is not always apparent.

As I noted previously, even reading comments in reverse order can be confusing due to lack of context.

But, I would rather read in reverse and figure out the context than scroll thru the Troll-tool junk. The thousands of lines of zeroes and ones.

Especially on mobile.

Once I see the attack, I’d rather go back to top, and then jump to bottom.

Potentially then, I skip a lot of junk.

GMT+3 thru GMT+11 is the problem.

echo June 9, 2021 5:25 PM

After watching the latest episode of The Blacklist and waiting on the Bond movie I decided to entertain myself with watching some walkthroughs of the second Hitman trilogy. While obviously a fiction and a game it was an interesting muse. The story is some interesting payback against the 1% and the scenery is really nice. I do like adventure and exploring and a walkthrough is less effort than playing it through myself. There’s also some interesting reviews by “Writing on Games” which gives you a better view plus interesting commentary about the artistic decisions.

Still taking a relaxing break I watched a few videos by “serpentza” on Youtube. He’s British and spent years living in China and speaks fluent mandarin. He has recently left China and now lives in the US. The first video covers his views on how China is exploiting influencers and why Western “white monkey” influencers are so valuable to the Chinese government. It’s an interesting listen although the last ten minutes does start to drag. I thought I could talk the legs off a donkey but Good Lord. With Chia’s big push on wating to present “happiness” on the global stage this video may make for useful background information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-kjSIqcGuA
TRAITORS working for Communist Chinese Government?

Following on from being fluent in the local language this DW documentary sounds very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kbLFBcBB4A
Do whales and humans speak the same language? | DW Documentary

Some fish talk with electricity!

https://www.sciencealert.com/these-fish-talk-with-electricity-and-like-us-they-also-pause-to-make-a-point
These Fish Speak With Electricity, But They Talk Just Like Us

Before I forget this study is an interesting insight into survival and lie detection and diversity.

https://www.sciencealert.com/corvids-can-distinguish-the-calls-of-their-own-flock-from-those-of-others
These Birds Shamelessly Lie to Their Neighbors, But Can Tell They Are Being Deceived

SpaceLifeForm June 9, 2021 5:35 PM

@ ALL

“The binder in front of you has the full Mueller report …”

[research it]

SpaceLifeForm June 9, 2021 10:31 PM

@ Clive, ALL

Seems like there is a script regarding ransomware. Considering that the money did not come out of the pocket of either CEO.

“It was one of the toughest decisions I have had to make in my life,” – Colonial Pipeline CEO

“This was a very difficult decision to make for our company and for me personally,” – JBS USA CEO

Clive Robinson June 9, 2021 11:34 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

As expected

As they say in the north of the UK,

“The more cheap cuts you use, the sooner the butchers bill arives”

Originally about the false economy of food production in the home, hotels, restaurants, schools etc

It now appears ironically to apply to ICTsec in the food supply chain as well.

The reality is neo-con mantras and the “freemarket” nonsense causes a race for the bottom, the evidence is overwhelming and in such abundance it astonishes me as to why society has not said “enough is enough”.

Since the 1980’s increasingly obviously “deregulation” is a compleate and utter failure for society, and only of very very short term advantage for a few sociopaths and their hangers on.

Likewise the neo-con mantras have made supply chains so fragile something so small, so tiny you can not see it showed in three months just how fragile the First World is.

SARS-CoV-2 whilst unique in it’s own way, is just one of billions of pathogens out there all waiting for their opportunity to take a bite out of us. Each and every neo-con mantra if analysed shows that following it makes mankind less and less robust and less and less resiliant. In the US a tipping point had been crossed, life expectancy was going down, education levels were going down, living standards were going down and everything was being done on the cheap, but even that was not good enough, cuts after cuts after cuts to basic infrastructure has made the ground society stands on in the US an Augean mess…

Peter June 10, 2021 8:13 AM

TO ALL:

I have mixed feelings about this kind of thing

im totally against censorship to be clear.

but these people do need help with learning how to make accusations and frame arguments. All conspiracy theorists do. All humans do. Its the education system which is at fault really.

Anyway, this isn’t really about that though, it is about narrative control, which they admit. The people doing the censorship are bad faith actors. It not like Alex Jones or people like him make it difficult to find reasons to censor him. The problem is the censors only have bad intentions. Nothing to do with fact checking or protecting people.

Robert June 10, 2021 8:15 AM

There are an increasing amount of people who truly believe that they should suppress others opinions because you shouldn’t be able to go around telling a lie. That’s not how it works, not at all. The whole point of our free speech is to have a voice even if your wrong. It’s the entire concept of learning. If we suppressed every “wrong” thing said then eventually everyone will just think the same, which again is not right. Who gets to determine this also? Do we get a vote as a society that said person is in fact wrong and his thoughts are actually making others believe this wrong thing? What if he technically isn’t wrong but it’s just offensive but true? That’s probably gotta go to.

The pussification of our generation is so bad, who honestly gives a shit if someone is offended? Remember sticks and stones may break my bones but worlds shall never hurt me? Just move on, more than likely you’ll literally never see, or speak to that person that hurt your feelings because your not strong enough to just “let it go”.

Kasier June 10, 2021 8:18 AM

Don’t forget the 1962 Operation Northwoods. Unclassified false flag attack with the intention to blame Cuba to start a war. The plan was denied by JFK… BTW, JFK was that president that got his head blown out by “a lone gunman”. Please, dive deep into JFK stuff too, but be aware of the numerous disinformation theories that were spread to mud the waters, like “driver shoot JFK”, “Jackie shoot JFK”, “Umbrella Man killed JFK”, “The Badge Man killed JFK”. All of those are complete bullshit.

Anyway, a little sneak peak into Operation Northwoods document (don’t forget to Google this and read the 15 pages PDF):

“An aircraft would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil aircraft”

“At a designed time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases”

“This will allow ICAO radio radio stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to ‘sell’ the incident”

Winter June 10, 2021 9:35 AM

@Robert (I guess I know who it is}
“Remember sticks and stones may break my bones but worlds shall never hurt me?”

Anti-vaxxers do kill and maim. Conspiracy theories do start pogroms. Asians are murdered by people incited by conspiracy theories. And the murders are the intention of those who spread the theories.

echo June 10, 2021 9:54 AM

The people promoting unrestricted “free speech” have no clue what they are talking about. In the UK a “free speech” nutter just lost their case. They may believe whatever they want but going with yapping about their beliefs crossed the line on the simple fact they were wrong in law and advocating their beliefs caused unlawful harm. There’s this whole human rights and equality thing not to mention other law like breach of the peace and harassment and anti-terrorist legislation and genocide etcetera, etcetera.

@hung

He is South African, not British.

Thanks for the correction. I caught this only after I posted. He is South African. He also has family in the UK. He has his biases as do we all. I’m satisfied his content is credible enough and the basic facts he puts into his opinion pieces are checkable.

Tõnis June 10, 2021 9:56 AM

Here are some of the lies that the fearful have been conditioned to believe:

• A deadly novel virus is sweeping across the planet
• No one is immune and there’s no cure
• Asymptomatic people are major disease vectors, and therefore:
• We have to shut everything down, isolate everyone and wear masks until the whole world has been vaccinated

Now, here’s the reality:

• SARS-CoV-2 poses a high risk to a very limited group of people and a negligible risk to the vast majority
• Few are susceptible to severe illness or death
• There are several effective treatments available
• Asymptomatic people — historically known as healthy people — do not spread the infection
• Lockdowns and mask mandates did not work and have caused great harm
• Vulnerable people have been harmed instead of helped

(From the following linked article: https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/06/10/worldwide-freedom-day.aspx)

[PS — a couple of posts above with the handle “Tonis” are not mine; my normal handle is “Tõnis” (which of course anyone else could use also!)]

1&1~=Umm June 10, 2021 10:51 AM

@Tõnis:

“Here are some of the lies that the fearful have been conditioned to believe:

• A deadly novel virus is sweeping across the planet
• No one is immune and there’s no cure
• Asymptomatic people are major disease vectors, and therefore:
• We have to shut everything down, isolate everyone and wear masks until the whole world has been vaccinated”

You are actually the one telling lies there.

  1. SARS-CoV-2 without doubt kills people and it is getting deadlier with some of the newer mutations.
  2. Due to the failures of politicians SARS-CoV-2 is spreading across the globe fairly successfully.
  3. We do not “have a cure” for SARS-CoV-2 or it’s mutations currently (vaccines are not a cure but a prophylactic). But then we don’t have cures for most viral infections, the common cold, flu and similar visit us during “winter malady season” which is Oct-Apr in the Northern Hemisphere.
  4. For some reason research into COVID thereputics is being restricted on out of patent medications, whilst in patent highly over priced minimally effective at best medications are being pushed heavily by drugs companies and their political supporters.
  5. As for people being “immune” there probably are some, but nobody has come along with evidence as to that. What is happening is some people about 3 in 10 are asymptomatic. They are problematical in that they are still infectious “viral sheders” thus can infect many many people. It’s one of the reasons “Super Spreaders” exist, for which there is plentu of scientific evidence.
  6. We don’t need to shut everything down but we do need to issolate non infected communities from infectious people. Outside of South America there are a number of places that have demonstrated that issolation works over large regions and things can return to near normal within such regions.
  7. As for mask wearing do you remember the 2020-2021 flu season in the Northern Hemisphere? The predictions were quite dire for the expected virus and it was of considerable concern. It did not happen because “Hands, Face, Space, Ventilate” worked very effectively of which mask wearing is an important part not a “political football” for QaNon and other loonies wanting to make a name for themselves. Mask wearing will continue to work year after year as long as we keep doing it, it’s probably going to be the cheapest and safest solution to all viral infections in the long term. A message quite a few do not want becoming known as amoungst other things fat profits rely on people not wearing masks, and that’s not just drugs companies.
  8. We could have stopped SARS-CoV-2 dead in it’s tracks in 7weeks if we had wanted to, but the politicians pushed by lobbyists decided there was more benifit in ‘disaster capitalism’.

Now you may wish to keep spreading your untruths but, remember every time you have done so, so far you have been shown up for what you are mainly by your own inabilities. So I suspect that quite a few will keep showing you up for what you are untill either you stop or you go somewhere else.

Tõnis June 10, 2021 11:51 AM

@1&1~=Umm,

I couldn’t edit my comment. I would have preferred to replace “lies” with “false narrative” which would have been more accurate, because the “official” version of events is really just one big lie. So, do you deny that:

• SARS-CoV-2 poses a high risk to a very limited group of people and a negligible risk to the vast majority
• Few are susceptible to severe illness or death
• There are several effective treatments available
• Asymptomatic people — historically known as healthy people — do not spread the infection
• Lockdowns and mask mandates did not work and have caused great harm
• Vulnerable people have been harmed instead of helped

???

“So I suspect that quite a few will keep showing you up for what you are …”

I doubt it. Since the start of the crown virus hoax, I never washed my hands for 20 seconds (unless they had motor oil on them), never wore the dust mask (went everywhere without one), never used hand sanitizer (unless I used one of those portable outhouses that don’t have running water), never washed my hands before eating (only after eating so that my fingers wouldn’t smell like ketchup), hugged anyone who wanted a hug including my octogenarian parents, and didn’t “isolate” or “quarantine.” It seems that, according to you, I and everyone I came in contact with should be dead! So no, not going away. I’m LMAO at the gullibility I see out there. Are you still wearing your dust mask as you drive around alone in your car?

1&1~=Umm June 10, 2021 12:44 PM

@Tõnis:

“Are you still wearing your dust mask as you drive around alone in your car?”

The answer is No. But what does that actually tell you a whole load of nothing.

But as for all you claim not to have done, what do you think that proves?

Certainly not what you are trying to imply, but it does if true kind of tell you are a bit of a slob.

Carelessly craming food in your face with your bare dirty fist.

As for,

“I never washed my hands for 20 seconds”

If that is true, and you don’t mean “exactly 20 seconds” and you want us to think it is less than 20 seconds then the logical implication is you neither bath or shower either…

I could go on but I think you might be getting the point, you realy are very bad at logic and reason…

Something tells me that you might find even programing a little difficult. I guess people will wonder if that,

“unless they had motor oil on them”

Says more about your primary / work activities than you might want known. If so then this,

“I’m LAMO”

Would kind of ring true.

But as for,

“Vulnerable people have been harmed instead of helped”

The “herd immunity political policy” of actively encoraging if not forcing old, infirm and disabled people to get sick and die of COVID-19 was a great financial success for the politicians and some wealthy people. Even those it did not kill that now have “long COVID” are being bankrupted as we speak thus their assets are becoming available at “fire sale pricing”.

As for,

“mask mandates did not work and have caused great harm”

They did work very well and stoped many othere airborne infections over the “flu season” at way less risk than vaccines would have cost in various ways. So I have, and will go with the science you appear not to understand for some reason, and argue they have done the very opposit of “great harm”.

Just to prove the point about your lack of understanding of science,

“Asymptomatic people — historically known as healthy people — do not spread the infection”

Seriously are you realy that unknowledgable?

I could go on but what is the point you realy have no clue, all you’ve done is grab other peoples nonsense and trotted it out again. The fact you do not understand it’s compleate nonsense is telling others just about what you are.

I suspect someone with an IQ of a hundred or less could spot the mistakes you are making and how others are in effect using you as what Joseph Stalin called “a useful idiot”.

I’m sure some are wondering by now if you ever got through high school science, or any other subject for that matter except maybe box bashing class.

Every time you post here you reveal more about yourself and to be honest such self doxing is embarrassing to put it mildly.

Tõnis June 10, 2021 1:41 PM

@1&1~=Umm

“Are you still wearing your dust mask as you drive around alone in your car?”

The answer is No. But what does that actually tell you a whole load of nothing.

But as for all you claim not to have done, what do you think that proves?

Certainly not what you are trying to imply, but it does if true kind of tell you are a bit of a slob.

Carelessly craming food in your face with your bare dirty fist.

As for,

“I never washed my hands for 20 seconds”

If that is true, and you don’t mean “exactly 20 seconds” and you want us to think it is less than 20 seconds then the logical implication is you neither bath or shower either…

I could go on but I think you might be getting the point, you realy are very bad at logic and reason…

Something tells me that you might find even programing a little difficult. I guess people will wonder if that,

“unless they had motor oil on them”

Says more about your primary / work activities than you might want known. If so then this,

“I’m LAMO”

Would kind of ring true.

But as for,

“Vulnerable people have been harmed instead of helped”

The “herd immunity political policy” of actively encoraging if not forcing old, infirm and disabled people to get sick and die of COVID-19 was a great financial success for the politicians and some wealthy people. Even those it did not kill that now have “long COVID” are being bankrupted as we speak thus their assets are becoming available at “fire sale pricing”.

As for,

“mask mandates did not work and have caused great harm”

They did work very well and stoped many othere airborne infections over the “flu season” at way less risk than vaccines would have cost in various ways. So I have, and will go with the science you appear not to understand for some reason, and argue they have done the very opposit of “great harm”.

Just to prove the point about your lack of understanding of science,

“Asymptomatic people — historically known as healthy people — do not spread the infection”

Seriously are you realy that unknowledgable?

I could go on but what is the point you realy have no clue, all you’ve done is grab other peoples nonsense and trotted it out again. The fact you do not understand it’s compleate nonsense is telling others just about what you are.

I suspect someone with an IQ of a hundred or less could spot the mistakes you are making and how others are in effect using you as what Joseph Stalin called “a useful idiot”.

I’m sure some are wondering by now if you ever got through high school science, or any other subject for that matter except maybe box bashing class.

Every time you post here you reveal more about yourself and to be honest such self doxing is embarrassing to put it mildly.“

Attacking of my character by drawing the conclusions you have proves nothing (you’re wrong on most counts) other than you are probably the type of person that would support banning online accounts when someone contradicts the “science” that supposedly proves everything that you’re saying is true. There are lots of people who keep referring to the “science” and “studies” yet never say which ones, and you’re coming across as one of them. It doesn’t take a whole lot of intelligence to recognize that the “science” and the “studies” are part of the farce, it only takes a little bit of common sense, but I suppose MENSA doesn’t scan for those attributes when considering candidates.

So, you didn’t even speculate … Why am I not dead or in line to be hooked up to one of the 90,000 ventilators requested by some states? If you’re wearing a dust mask because you think the crown virus is so powerful it can be transmitted by a healthy person, then carry on with your dust mask in place. Maybe I have you to thank for my health and survival. 🙄

(You are on the right track though that I couldn’t care less about programming.)

SpaceLifeForm June 10, 2021 2:38 PM

@ Tõnis

What are these ‘treatments’ you speak of?

If you think that being on a ventilator for a month under induced coma, and surviving with permanant lung damage is a ‘treatment’, you are mistaken.

The evidence is comjng in. Almost all new Covid-19 cases in the US are people that did not get vaccinated.

The precautions most sane people took in the past year, basically stopped the flu. In fact, one of the flu strains has not been seen in a year, and is now thought to have disappeared.

So, have you ever been tested for Covid-19 antibodies? I’m certain you have not been tested. So, how do you know that you were not already exposed but your immune system fought it off?

What if you were not exposed already?

Are you sure you will make it thru this coming Northern Hemisphere Winter unscathed? Especially with the newer variants?

You are a fool if you do not get vaccinated by fall.

Darwin is watching.

Tõnis June 10, 2021 3:13 PM

@SpaceLifeForm, the one I’ve seen mentioned is Ivermectin. I haven’t done research on the treatments only because I have not been worried about catching the virus in any serious way, but the site to which many of those links I’ve posted direct has info on treatments.

I have not been tested for the crown virus and don’t plan to be tested only because catching it has never been something that has worried me. As you said, I may have had it already, and that would go to what I’ve been saying, that it’s easily defeated by a healthy person‘s immune system. That’s why I like to say that the crown virus is a disease so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it; if you don’t get tested, you might not even know I have it!

Winter June 10, 2021 3:47 PM

@Tõnis
“I haven’t done research on the treatments only because I have not been worried about catching the virus in any serious way, but the site to which many of those links I’ve posted direct has info on treatments.”

First of all, you might not be likely to suffer from the virus, but you are perfectly capable of killing someone else with it. Someone who did not ask you to infect them.

There is no “treatment” for COVID-19. There are sometimes ways to keep you alive by suppressing the symptoms until your immune system finally is able to clean up the virus.

But like giving oxygen, these “treatments” are no cures, they do not work for everyone, and you are still in hospital in a critical state. And you are likely to take a long time to recover, if you do recover completely. 1 in 10 of those infected take months to fully recover. Many of those who end up in ICU never fully recover.

But I think the crucial part of your comments are:

*SARS-CoV-2 poses a high risk to a very limited group of people and a negligible risk to the vast majority
*Few are susceptible to severe illness or death

The risks are for parents and grandparents, the diabetic and asthmatic, the obese, and the nurses and doctors who care for COVID-19 patients. These are the 5% who end up in hospital and the 1% who die. And it is these “superfluous” people that are the “limited” people you think should suffer and die for the greater “freedom” of the strong.

These millions of Americans, and tens of millions of humans are not worthy to save in the eyes of a Trump or Bolzenaro and their followers.

But many people do care about their parents and grandparents, their nurses and doctors, their family and neighbors.

What it does show about you and your fellows is perfectly expressed in this famous quote about responsibility of a Republican major from Texas during the Texas Freeze:

“No one owes you or your family anything; nor is it the local governments responsibility to support you during trying times like this! Sink or swim, it’s your choice!” he wrote. “The City and County, along with power providers or any other service owes you NOTHING!”

That is Modern Conservatism in the USA.

SpaceLifeForm June 10, 2021 4:51 PM

@ Moderator

Thank you for zapping the binary noise.

Please, add a link at top to jump to bottom. It is simple HTML. Seriously simple.

1&1~=Umm June 10, 2021 5:22 PM

@Tõnis:

“Attacking of my character by drawing the conclusions you have proves nothing”

Attack your charecter, no.

All I’ve done is highlight what your very own words say about you, as others may see them. I think many would consider that would give a sensible person food for thought.

“you are probably the type of person that would support banning online accounts when someone contradicts the “science” that supposedly proves everything that you’re saying is true.”

Do you see me or anyone else here calling for you to be banned No, so you are wrong on that front as well. All that is happening is people are pointing out where what you are saying is wrong, and how you are unfortunately alowing yourself to be used by others.

“There are lots of people who keep referring to the “science” and “studies” yet never say which ones”

Funny that neither have you, everything you’ve linked to has been anything but science, and you’ve had the reasons why it’s not scirnce pointed out to you repeatedly in terms some one who had compleated K-12 should be able to easily comprehend.

But you again go on in a way that suggests you never compleated K-12 with,

“It doesn’t take a whole lot of intelligence to recognize that the “science” and the “studies” are part of the farce, it only takes a little bit of common sense.”

Trust me you do not have “common sense”, nor do you apparently have “intelligence” either as for what you call farce tends to suggest you lack empathy for some reason.

What has been seen in your words is that you are “emotionaly invested” beyond reason, thus “cognatively biased”. So basically believe without question any bit of easily disprovable nonsense that I guess you are being fed by people with undesirable political outlook, as long as you think it supports your cognative bias.

Don’t worry too much that is quite common in certain personality types citrently, you might have seen the parading around in silly cloathing being disgruntled and generally creating a nuisance. Some on this site tracked back the originators of the conspiracy stories and found their postings and profiles let’s just say they were of a certain type with too much time on their hands and had cigarettes and cheap wine glasses in them in their photos.

“So, you didn’t even speculate … Why am I not dead or in line to be hooked up to one of the 90,000 ventilators requested by some states?”

As for the 90,000 ventilators requested by a US state, I must admit that one has passed me by. But then it is a little ludicrous, if you know what is required to support someone on a ventilator you would know that a US State has neither the staff or other resourses such as qualified medical staff to support 90,000 ventilators in use.

Why have I not speculated on why you are not dead, well I’m kind of assuming you are alive orherwise you would not be posting to this blog. I would have thought that would come under “common sense” but I guess from your point of view obviously not.

As for being “in line to be hooked up to” a ventilator likewise common sense. It would kind of indicate if that were the case you would be too cyanosed to be able to sit up and talk, let alone tippy tappy on a keyboard of a computer or smart device. But hey the cognative decline associated with being cyanosed due to lack of oxygen to the brain, I guess could have happened to you?

If you are asking why you’ve not been struck down well we only have your word on what you have or have not been doing, as everything else you’ve said has been shall we say flakey at best, what reason have you given us to believe anything you say?

But you have a 3 in ten chance of having been infected and infectious without noticing, and a further 3 in ten chance of only having very mild symptoms, the new India VoC has symptoms like a common rhino virus infection unless you are unlucky. Oh and the younger you are the odds of being unlucky decreases on an exponential curve. You could for all we know be a petulant teenager who likes to be an SJW rather than studying. Appart from the newer VoC’s The WHO has recently renamed for “politically correct”(PC) reasons the odds for those under 35 were quite small. In fact I’m surprised on the risk figures they are vaccinating people under 21 as the odds of harm are about the same ~1:200,000 the last time I looked.

So sorry if you think you are somehow special you are not. In the early stages of the pandemic as figures were comming in the CFR was about 5% someone calculated on this blog that if the hospitals remained unsaturated the risk of death in the US would kill about a half a million rising to 5 million if the hospitals did become saturated. So far the figures appear on track to a first order aproximation if you alow for the vaccine reduction to the effectctive “potential host” population (I won’t trouble you with the nonlinear math involved).

But something to consider, one of the new India VoC’s is about 1.43 times more virulent than the UK VoC that in turn was 1.47 times more virulent than the second China Varient. So that is over twice as virulent. I gather the new India varient is now the dominant strain in the UK and it looks like it might cause a third wave in the next few weeks. One set of studies has put R0 in at between 6 and 8 which if it gets a solid foothold in the US is going to be shall we say problematic, to put it politely. Oh and both the UK and India varients appear to be attacking a lower age profile. I’ve not calculated the new risk factor for 35year olds but it’s probably going to be between four and six times what it was. Also I’ve yet to see what the reinfection figures are for the India VoC. As we know it was quite high for one of the Brazilian VoC’s.

Any way I hope you don’t get COVID as there is a significant risk of “Long COVID” predominantly in the younger population. Figures I’ve yet to confirm say 0.3million still are debilitated by it a year after being infected, with upto a million making it to 3months of debilitation so far.

Personaly I’m not surprised look up ME / Yuppie Flu, it was a source of derision back in the 80’s but a friend with went down with it and ended up loosing their job, home and much else and had to move back to their parents abroad. I can attest to the fact they were most definitely not faking it.

Oh also don’t forget viruses are being linked to cancer in later life as well as various autoimmune diseases ten to twenty years down the road. From memory it’s all been mentioned on this blog, along with links to peer reviewed articles where appropriate, so you can look them up.

lurker June 10, 2021 5:25 PM

@Tõnis: the one I’ve seen mentioned is Ivermectin.

When I first heard the Ivermectin claims, my only response could be “hunh?”
because Ivermectin is a registered veterinarian medicine in my country, for diseases of cattle carried by ticks. I would have had a lot more faith in oxyhydrochloroquine because that is registered for use in humans for similar fevers to Covid, but it has been proven in proper clinical trials to be useless. I s’pose in a free country one is free to try whatever quack remedies one chooses…

SpaceLufeForm June 10, 2021 6:00 PM

@ Clive, FBI, ALL

I was confident my parser was not broken, but I thought, maybe I was misreading. Benefit of doubt. So, I did not point this out before.

Alas, others have now spotted the same issue.

My bold.

From https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/09/business/jbs-cyberattack-11-million/index.html

The ransom was paid after most of the company’s facilities had come back online, JBS said.

Why?

So @FBI, are you on this?

So @FBI, have you considered this is money laundering?

So @FBI, have you considered this is blackmail payoff?

So @FBI, you know this is not RICO, right? Stick to the conspiracy angle.

It’s never RICO.

https://www.popehat.com/2016/06/14/lawsplainer-its-not-rico-dammit/

[Narrator: It’s RICO]

[Narrator: Sticky to the conspiracy angle]

JonKnowsNothing June 10, 2021 6:22 PM

@ lurker

re When I first heard the Ivermectin claims, my only response could be “hunh?” because Ivermectin is a registered veterinarian medicine in my country, for diseases of cattle carried by ticks.

It is also supplied to humans. Primarily in countries that have specific parasites and worms that infect humans.

As with COVID-19 in HIP countries (1), eradication of such parasites is difficult or near impossible. Treatments and preventative barriers are the best offerings available.

===

ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

  • Ivermectin is used to treat human diseases caused by roundworms and ectoparasites.

1, HIP Herd Immunity Policy.

An economic policy based on killing off the most vulnerable members of the population, maintaining a “suppressed but constant infection cycle” within the target populations so that economic systems are not disadvantaged.

HIP is an economic policy and is not related to Herd Immunity by Vaccination.
(url fractured to prevent autorun)

MarkH June 10, 2021 6:27 PM

Re Ivermectin:

What Ivermectin has in common with CQ/HCQ, is that (to the best of my knowledge) none of them has ever been shown to be effective in treating virus infections; and further, that there is no sound theoretical basis to suggest that they are likely to be useful anti-viral medications.

Ivermectin has been shown to be effective against some parasites (like nematode worms) with thousands (often very many thousands) of animal cells.

CQ/HCQ has been shown to be effective against the protozoan which causes malaria, which is neither a virus, nor even a bacterium!

@Tõnis:

One of the “authorities” you cited is Dr J Mercola, who has a history of touting “treatments” proven to be scientifically invalid.

Many, many people buy in to that kind of stuff. It will not be persuasive to most people who either have a scientific education, or who respect the enormous success scientific processes have achieved in finding explanations for natural phenomena.

Good luck!

JonKnowsNothing June 10, 2021 7:00 PM

@SpaceLifeForm

Re: Ransom Paid after Partial Unlock

iirc(badly) Not everything got unlocked at the same time. The abattoirs did not start up in Australia until later.

It’s not rocket science how to kill cattle, sheep, pigs, goats, chickens so one might suppose there is more to the automated process than just the kill part.

One might guess

1 There was more to be unlocked
2 The LEOs have a tracker on the funds
3 ANOM

fwiw: Modern Abattoirs are no place for the faint hearted. It’s standing shoulder to shoulder, conveyor belts and systems running at high speed, blood, body parts, entrails and intestinal contents spewing over the workers into the shop environment. It doesn’t stop until the kill quota is completed for that day.

The Kill Systems only have capacity to hold 1,2,3 days kill quota. When there is a longer delay, as in COVID-19 2020 when the abattoirs closed down, the ripple effect ran upstream to the farms and contract-farmers ready to send animals to the kill pens. Those animals were killed on the farms and because farms are not setup for killing hundreds of thousands of animals a day, the animals did not get a “nice ending”.

It would surely enter into the calculations when deciding what and when to pay.

Better yet consider this:

  It was worth $11,000,000 USD to get the keys back.
  That’s the cost of about 12,000 head of cattle in the USA.
  Which is about 1 days Kill Quota for 1 Abattoir.

    750lb Steer Value by State [June 2021]

    Alabama $944
    Colorado $1,028
    Georgia $897
    Iowa $1,128
    Mississippi $949
    Montana $1,068
    Nebraska $1,115
    New York $921
    North Dakota $1,065
    Oklahoma $1,057
    South Carolina $928
    Wyoming $1,005

People think Hi-Tech runs California, it doesn’t.

Not so fake! June 10, 2021 8:25 PM

@ALL,

https://m.slashdot.org/story/386520

“Linux Foundation Readies Global COVID Certificate Network”

https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-foundation-readies-global-covid-certificate-network/

What?
Oh boy…

I apologize about the /. links, more specifically the comments found therein.

@SLF,

RE: Laundering,

I saw your comments last week concerning this, laundering may be specifically 1 level too deep. Both of the companies affected have red lining around their coat pockets, these could be payments for lobbying or advertising a la 21st century.

@Winter,

An informed public is an important thing, can we find agreement lightly on such a point? Unfortunately the disease carrier (spam) occasionally provides data points that may be of significant interest to others.

I’m not trying to out myself with that comment per se but there are occasionally bits in the noise. Thanks.

SpaceLifeForm June 10, 2021 10:55 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing, Not so fake!, FBI

Here is the issue as I see it.

If someone is extorting you, why would you trust the extortionist to uphold their end of the bargain, based upon a promise?

Let’s go thru a scenario.

Extortionist: We want 200 Bitcoin

Business: Do not have that kind of scratch. How about 100 Bitcoin?

Extortionist: I guess we can make this work

Business: Can not get that kind of scratch together today, but we need to get the business running ASAP.

Extortionist: When can you pay?

Business: Maybe a few days or so. But we have to get back online.

Extortionist: Sounds good. If you don’t pay, we start leaking PII. Here’s the unlock key. Be a shame if something happened to your business.

Note: the PII that would be leaked it not you because you bought a steak at the grocery store. It most likely is internal emails from the C-suite.

The PII still may end being leaked anyway.

JonKnowsNothing June 11, 2021 12:49 AM

@SpaceLifeForm All

re: Ransom Negotiations

Ransom negotiations and Hostage negotiations and MIA Negotiations have been around for thousands of years.

Kings and Nobles were a great source of income at the time. It was bad form to kill someone when you could get a ransom for them.

Sometimes, the ransom was not paid, or the person was killed or the objects held hostage.

Each of your questions apply now as they did then. Insider, Outsider, Double Deal, Proof of Life all apply.

An $11 Million USD throw on the roulette wheel paid off this time. As you indicate, it might not work the next time.

Given the nature of such things, and also previous cases, Proof of Unlock is not so much different from Proof of Life.

You either pay or you have a dead king. If you are the Prince in Waiting, maybe you don’t care if the Old King croaks. If you are the dude in chains you are hoping someone rescues you.

eg: A tonnage of MIAs are held on the behalf of the USA, renditioned or jurisdiction hopped into Black Sites. You cannot pay off the CIA with enough dopes to buy back even one live body.

===

ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_I_of_England
ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_I_of_England#Captivity,_ransom_and_return

ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ransom_of_King_John_II_of_France
ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ransom_of_King_John_II_of_France

ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_IX_of_France
ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Crusade

ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone
ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950_removal_of_the_Stone_of_Scone
ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone#Return_to_Scotland

(url fractured to prevent autorun)

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 1:23 AM

@ Not so fake!, ALL,

“Linux Foundation Readies Global COVID Certificate Network”

It’s one of those “Oh not again” moments… Or “How can clever people be so utterly stupid yet again?”…

It’s very clear that the purpose is to,

1, Push Blockchain.
2, Setup a Global Unique ID system.

Both are very bad ideas and we should know by now not to touch either with an infinitely long pole[1]… (but then domain history is not something that realy happens in ICTsec as I’ve previoisly pointed out on a number of occasions).

Firstly Blockchain realy is a very bad idea, always has been and it’s getting worse day by day…

One the face of it, blockchain appears to offer many Security advantages. The reality is they are not advantages people realy want or need and infact are turning out to be significant disadvantages. Especially at the cost incured, and as is becoming more and more clear the disadvantages are always going to significantly outweigh the minimal not needed advantages.

Worse people are discovering more and more, how blockchain haemorrhages PII via meta-data and meta-meta-data analysis and this leakage is as a direct consequence of it’s supposed advantages. Thus the law of “unintended consequences” runs rampant with Blockchain, especially when other databases are involved, which they almost always are or can be easily made to link to a blockchain system.

As for a “Globaly unique ID System” do I realy have to say just how bad an idea that realy is?

Look at it this way it’s an easy to use major tool for repression and police state activities, religious and other discrimination and so on. It’s also a “Data-miners” and Identity theft criminals wet dream, it’s “the one true key” to all you are and all you own. It will in short kill society as you currently know it.

But it also has two major issues nobody has resolved, and may never do so,

1, Root of Trust.
2, Hierarchical Power/Control.

Put simply, you can not prove who you are, only that you are possessing of some of the “authentication tokens” created by bureaucrats without thought to the consequences[2].

The ability to control such authentication tokens is an on going war of a bloodyness that few see or realise.

As the tokens are “issued” from a “hierarchical” system the old laws of such systems apply. That is money, power and status increases the closer you are to the top of any hierarchy. Thus the opportunities for corruption, abuse, and other criminality likewise accrue at the top of a hierarchy it’s fundementally inherent in the makeup of a,hierarchical system.

So the bigger the hierarchy the worse the problem, and the harder –to a significant power law– it is to clean up such a system. Thus they almost always “go bad”, and usually fairly “quickly”. Worse when they have gone bad they usually “stay bad”, with the only way out being to destroy the current hierarchy and replace it… But with what? Hence the cycle repeates over and over as history shows[3].

All of these failures have two things in common,

1, Over time they become more desirable to attack.
2, Over time they become much easier to attack.

Thus it’s not hard to see they will always fail, no ifs or iffs, no doubts, and no maybes, they will fail and fail bad…

It’s just a matter of when as long as those two issues are in effect, and we currently have no idea how to mitigate or solve them. In fact you can reasonably show that the two issues are drivers of each other. That is whilst seemingly independent of each other, they do infact drive each other into a downward spiral, the result of which is either total failure, or the current system gets destroyed and replaced, which is likewise a total failure of the system, but the associated effects might be reduced.

The whole idea is a bad one and the system will either just fail or worse via mission creep turn into a totalitarian tool. Which would be just to desirable to certain political types who would use it for oppressive purposes that would have an increasingly detrimental effect on anyone who’s details have been “Indelibly and publically Time Stamped” into such a system.

[1] The statment of “Would not touch with a ten foot pole” comes from some very wise advice about dealing with disease and corpses. But importantly it applies as much to security and computer systems as it does to heakth hazzards. Put simply sufficiently organised/complex living organisms are infested with pathogens and pests. When the organism is in distress, dying or dead those pathogens and pests need to find new hosts, the closer you are the greater the probability is it is going to be you. Look at it this way Y-pestis or the plauge / Black Death infected fleas on rats. Whilst it did not kill the fleas it did kill the rats all be it slowly. Thus a rat and it’s flea population became infected, as the rat died it’s fleas migrated to any warm blooded animal they could hop onto, which was a range of about five to six feet on the flat, more if the corpse was elevated. Hence the safety margin of an extra four foot of pole, and if sensible arms length usage. All computer systems and security systems can be viewed in exactly the same way. As systems they have things dependent on them and the dependencies will migrate to other systems if the first system ceases to opperate. Thus though dead, the ill effects live on through other sacrificial systems…

[2] See the history of the US social security number system and the mission creep around it that makes identity theft so easy thus criminalisation of innocent individuals even easier.

[3] If people doubt this look at all the problems with “security authentication tokens” that is going on with Level III attackers going after any organisation or individual at the top of a hierarchy. RSA a decade ago, and SolarWinds just recently, and inbetween all those Certificate Authorities that failed.

SpaceLifeForm June 11, 2021 2:17 AM

@ Clive, ALL

From the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same department

http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/brian.randell/NATO/nato1968.PDF

SOFTWARE ENGINEERING

Report on a conference sponsored by the
NATO SCIENCE COMMITTEE
Garmisch, Germany, 7th to 11th October 1968

[BTW, this was about the same time as the one of the first colpipe lawsuits]

https://twitter.com/aukia/status/1402956260702572547/photo/1

The pic is a quick snapshot. View it to see how software development has not progressed.

Seriously, if you have not been doing software and/or networking for 50 years, and you really think that is what you want to do, then read the PDF.

You have been warned.

Over time, the only satisfaction you will get as a developer, is because you want to be free, and your want your effort to be free.

You will be frustrated any other way.

Working for an org probably will not cut the mustard long term. Pays the bills. But the stress. Is it worth it?

Money for nothing, Chips for free.

Winter June 11, 2021 2:23 AM

@Not so fake
“An informed public is an important thing, can we find agreement lightly on such a point?”

Depends on the information.

Would you discuss conspiracy theories about witches causing plagues? Would you want to debunk disinformation about plague victims having died from curses by witches? Would you want to discuss the pro and cons of burning witches at the stake in fighting the plague?

It is well known that for many, repeating disinformation validates it.

Disinformation kills. Thousands of Rohinya were murdered in pogroms recently, driven by disinformation and conspiracy theories. Thousands of people die of measles every year. Anti-vaxxers kill.

If people are risking lives with disinformation, I call it out.

echo June 11, 2021 8:38 AM

@Goat

I’m not minded to approve of Stallman even after reading the whitewashing written by people who know just as little about the mentioned subjects as he does. Some of the arguments made in his favour are so wrong and so tone deaf they don’t survive minimal scrutiny. If that’s the best they can do I do not see any reason to overturn the decision to get rid of Stallman. I would’t personally want him anywhere near me nor have him poking his nose into affairs which don’t concern him.

Goat June 11, 2021 9:45 AM

To add I would say I have not found many people who take free software as seriously as stallman. On software side he “was right” and has been about injustices on users. His comments on certain topics are controversial or have been wrong but we dont have another stallman. The new director literally had a linkedin and tweeters accounts.

MarkH June 11, 2021 2:55 PM

@SpaceLifeForm, re “[Covid] is a decentralized, distributed blockchain”

I note the Covid has better anonymity, and is upgraded much more frequently, so it may be regarded as an improvement on Bitcoin.

Many attendees of the Bitcoin conference presumably had some combination of cognitive limitations and biases by which they fail to see the foolishness of Bitcoin (and blockchain tech in general).

I suggest that these cognitive characters combine to produce certain behavioral traits, including:

• disregard for the assessments of extremely qualified experts

• inability to distinguish fantasy from reality

• high vulnerability to deception by fraudsters.

I further suggest that this same set of cognitive characters enables the conclusion that it’s wise to disregard pandemic precautions.

In a much smaller (and thankfully, much less costly) way, Covid has replayed the historic path of HIV/AIDS, with spread accelerated by groups of people whose behavior provided opportunistic vectors.

Stupidity can, and does, kill.

McArthur June 11, 2021 2:59 PM

@ Clive Robinson:

So much about HCS not working in combination with Zink, ha?

Remember when you lambasted another poster here about the “outdated” information, data and studies he posted with regards to the effectiveness of HCQ and your claims of it being debunked and not working, based on MSM propaganda and pseudoscience?

You are making a fool out of yourself and your stance on the virus origin will be no different, thus you are just another Dunning Krugering twaddling dillweed, you ddddiiiiiiilllllllwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddd!!!!

Observational Study on 255 Mechanically Ventilated Covid Patients at the Beginning of the USA Pandemic

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.28.21258012v1

Study shows hydroxychloroquine and zinc treatments increased coronavirus survival rate by almost three times

https://news.yahoo.com/news/study-shows-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-treatments-210300816.html

Tucker Carlson: Fauci deserves to be under criminal investigation

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/tucker-carlson-fauci-deserves-criminal-investigation

You schizos here have no shame and not even a modicum of common decency left, just babbling the MSM propaganda to go with the masses of sheep while censoring everything else like a true circle-jerking echo chamber full of flea infested rabid gutter rats, what a disgusting display of moral cowardliness and lack of critical thinking skills, rot away.

Last but not least, told you so!!!

Winter June 11, 2021 3:07 PM

@Moderator
comment-381234 [ McArthur • June 11, 2021 2:59 PM ]

Propagating conspiracy theories about COVID-19 policies and insulting content.

1 June 11, 2021 3:23 PM

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MarkH June 11, 2021 3:25 PM

Officials want to subjugate the entire Russian Internet

Vedomosti.ru article in Russian

According to several industry sources, the Ministry of Communications of the Russian Federation is preparing legislative amendments which would give the Russian government authority to comprehensively control the Russian internet.

The scope of control would include:

• all critical infrastructure of the Russian internet
• communication networks owned by legal entities and individuals
• traffic with foreign networks
• DNS
• IP assignment, including government registration of the entity assigned each IP
• traffic monitoring

ianf June 11, 2021 3:26 PM

@Bruce,
this rise in cephalopod numbers is probably cyclic, recent El Niño churning up the waters etc. Intelligent critters that they undeniably are, they don’t yet seem to have gotten that they don’t stand a chance to rule the world unless and until they leave the drink and conquer the land. We may admire blue whales for their majestic grace, but they, too, ended up in an evolutionary cul-de-sac. Squid should know better than that, but do ever we see any signs of that? NOT… they seem content with being the happy campers of the Deep.

@ Vatos,
compelling cellphone makers via legislation to patch up vulnerabilities in their products is a can of worms and a non-starter. Even were it to work, who would decide what is a (school-bus-sized) rear entry and what is a feature? In theory, acc. to economy laissez-fairians, the mythical “market” ought to weed out substandard products by the process of consumers’ attrition. In practice, however, shoddy schlock of one brand gets replaced by an equal or worse garbage of another. And there is no escape from this with less than total devotion to all the tech that one is supposed to be merely a consumer of, not a master over AND a slave to.

Spooky June 11, 2021 3:27 PM

Indeed, it was nice to see that unpleasant business temporarily tabled; as you say, the supporters of this legislation will invariably return (and in greater numbers, ha). I do find myself worrying that post-election, we’ll end up seeing something far worse eventually shawshanking its way through the ol’ congressional balloon knot…

@ianf,

“…and there is no escape from this with less than total devotion to all the tech that one is supposed to be merely a consumer of, not a master over AND a slave to…”

I think the amount of devotion required is starting to rapidly exceed my own energy reserves; with the recent exponential uptick in Windows X infections, I’m starting to understand the ideological basis for Frank Herbert’s Butlerian Jihad…

ianf June 11, 2021 3:27 PM

OT: Finally, THE ANSWERS on Islamist threat/ Radical Islam that we’ve all been waiting for from no less an EXPERT on the above than drrrrrrrumrrrrrrroll: Tony Blair.

Turn to This Week’s World on the BBC World News cable channel today, Saturday @ 16:20 CET or GMT+0200 (Continental Europe); presumably concurrently with UK BBC1 @ 17:20 BST (16:20 GMT)

Repeats on Sunday 00:20 and 14:20 – both GMT+0200

Billed as:

With much of the Middle East in violent conflict, This Week’s World explores whether radical Islamist ideology can be confronted by the power of argument. Former British Prime Minister and Middle East Peace Envoy Tony Blair speaks to Emily Maitlis about new ideas to face down so-called Islamic State. We’re joined by Muslim thinkers and former jihadis and report from Iraq on the consequences of Western policy and the rise of extremism.

Consider yourselves informed/ warned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n3ct19t2

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 3:28 PM

@ Thoth,

The Oracle -v- Google case has always been one of “being burnt by the devil -v- drowed by the deep blue sea”. That is it did notmatter which side won the result over all would be bad, thus the question of the lesser two evils arose yet again with the attempted balkanisation of software stacks.

You should note that ARS clearly say that the opinions in the Op-Ed were not their’s but that of a Legal Mouth Piece of the unvictorious plaintive Oracle. So there is a degree of sangfroid from her as she can see a likely internal political backlash in Oracle with potentialy her position at stake.

Oracle were upto a quite underhand trick, reminiscent of Microsoft’s attack on FOSS by encoraging SCO to falsely claim infringment by Linux against SCO’s version of Unix derived via Microsoft licencing from Xenix and AT&T’s divested Unix System’s Laboratory which had been bought by Novell and inturn divested to Ray Norder’s Caldera Systems.

As we now know for all MS’s claims of FOSS being “communist” “cancer” they have now to a certain extent embraced it. Thus the question of MS intentions arises, in the past they have “embraced the free and proprietaly extended it” to force market splitting (funniley against Sun’s Java).

Thus Oracle’s manovering with Java has backfired against Google, where as Sun succeeded against Microsoft. Which kind of ask’s question’s of Oracle’s legal staff’s competance…

The simple answer about the case is not only is the deciding line wavey on this issue, there is a pendulum of opinion swinging too and fro as well making the whole thing into a crap shoot. Which we have seen play out in other areas such as the shape of the Apple iPhone and many other features used by market heavy weights to manipulate the market in their favour when faced with more agile competition entrants.

Whilst I would not try to predict how this plays out, the odds are it will not become a black swan issue and will just play out with minor issues down the line. Issues that in all probability will actualy give more conservative behaviour, which in turn will improve the quality of work by making bounderies more distinct and thus less fragile. For example any one else remember Win3 MfC and the hidden calls “competative advantage” tricks, traps and pitfalls and the detrimental behaviour it had on programmers, by making the secretive and generaly bad news to their peers?

ianf June 11, 2021 3:28 PM

So essentially you propose to exploit the discovered breach of security for personal gain (never mind that it’s most assuredly illegal).

Ever thought of notifying the affected (named/ identifiable) patients – if in anonymous fashion, so they can take this up with the Health Management Organization that’s at fault? That HMO will hardly call FBI to raid their homes.

Or, if such a direct notification route is too bothersome to consider, how about writing it up in a few paras, and “dumping” the story onto some news-hungry media that always are on the prowl for local management malfeasance?

ergo sum June 11, 2021 3:29 PM

@ianf…

So essentially you propose to exploit the discovered breach of security for personal gain (never mind that it’s most assuredly illegal).

Based on the available news articles, was this really a security breach? Sounds more like a misconfiguration on the FTP server and/or the company’s software. Unauthorized access claim by the company doesn’t hold water in my view, when the system authorized the access to the data in question, seemingly for anyone.

And you are correct, two wrongs don’t make a right. The FBI had been wrong raiding the house and so was I suggesting to sell the data. Just my knee-jerk reaction…

albert June 11, 2021 3:31 PM

…In April 2015, President Obama issued Executive Order 13694 declaring a national emergency to deal with the threat of hostile cyber activity against the United States….” – Steven Aftergood, FAS

“…“the President may seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel, and, in a variety of ways, control the lives of United States citizens. [However], Congress may modify, rescind, or render dormant such delegated emergency authority.”…” – Harold C. Relyea (CRS, at time of writing)

See: https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2016/05/cyber-emergency/

NOTE: The order is intended for activities performed by persons or groups -outside- the US.

MarH June 11, 2021 3:32 PM

@ergo sum
RE Security research could result in an early morning wake call…

An idiot is sitting on the sidewalk tapping a rusty grenade with a hammer. The appropriate response is not to sit there “reasoning” with him, but to get as far away from him as quickly and as quietly as you can. If you stay, the BEST possible scenario is that you are blown to bits, thus at least relieving your blood-boiling stress at having to constantly deal with the terminally stupid products of our “education” system. If the grenade DOESN’T go off, and you stood there shouting at others to get to safety, you not only will NOT be hailed as a hero, you’ll be charged with “attempting to incite a panic”. (Not to mention being “in possession” of an explosive device — after all, you WERE standing on the VERY SAME sidewalk!) And don’t forget that you actually tried to TALK to the idiot so, hey, let’s pile on a “conspiracy” charge or two!

This poor well-intentioned bastard obviously forgot Barnum’s First Rule of Security: “Never smarten up a chump.”

Clive Robinosn June 11, 2021 3:32 PM

Depends on your definition of “random”. As for “according to wikipedia it never repeates” That is probably not true again depending on what they mean by “never” and “repeats”.

When you measure the voltage at any point in a circuit you have to remember that your instrument has resolution limits and all “real” circuit components contain a resistive component that generates noise. The result is you end up not with an infinitely variable vector but a granular one. Thus the vector is effectivly bound to one of a limited number of amplitudes at any point in direction, and the difference between the previous current and next measurments are likewise granular and limited in the rate of change due to the maximum frequency of the effective oscillator. But even at no change of the vector there will be a noise component added to the oscilator output. In theory –but not of necessity practice– this noise signal will be uncorrelated to the oscilator signal as it’s thermal noise (KTBR noise). However the negative resistance in the circuit that keeps it oscillating is based on semiconductors and these have the effect of being very susceptable to the thermal noise and thus the output signal is not the addition of the two signals but their multiple, which means the oscillator frequency gets changed by the noise in the form of phase advancing and retarding.

The upshot of all this is in practice it does not matter if the circuit does produce a chaotic oscillator with infinitely variable output or not, the multiplication by the KTBR noise will ensure it is. The thing is unlike an ordinary oscillator that tends to either stability or rail smashing with the noise having a very minor effect (except at startup). A chaotic oscillator sufferes from “the butterfly’s wings issue” in that it’s output is very sensitive to the input so it is very sensitive to the KTBR noise.

Which brings us back to the “what you mean by random” issue. The output from the circuit is quite predictable over a short period of time (as are most attractors or chaotic circuits). It’s only after several cycles that it’s sensitivity to initial conditions etc makes it difficult to predict it’s output.

Unfortunately it’s this sensitivity that will enable it to lock to very small signals, thus removing the bulk of what you would consider random… So from that point of view it’s not going to make a very good random source by most definitions.

But there is another issue, “synchronicity”. Put simply if you start two similar pendulums they tend to not swing at their natural frequencies but fall into lockstep at a frequency inbetween. It is very likely that if you built two such circuits and ran them with a common ground or powersupply or within each others effective coupling fields that they would exhibit some form of correlation at their outputs.

I hope that gives you some things to consider before building / relying on such circuits.

Grauhut June 11, 2021 3:34 PM

@Thoth: “FBI arrests security researcher…”

Security researchers are whistleblowers = cyber terrorists… 🙂

@nick, r: Use a fresh android vm and a burner usb wifi stick passed to it on your notebook in a coffeeshop with wifi, sideload the data to it, create a burner gmail account on it there (easyest on android), push the stuff to the corporate marketing department (the PR geeks that would have to do the crisis PR job), the FTC and cc the local sheriffs office at the corp headquarters address. Give the vm the kiss of ddeath and throw away the wifi stick (dont try to play with mac addrs, if something goes wrong youd have to throw away the notebook :). Job done. 100%. The PR guys hate crisis work, the sheriff hates the feds (if your lucky) and the FTC is used as some kind of afterburner for the corps c’s. And some poor admin has to eat it then! 🙂

Grauhut June 11, 2021 3:34 PM

Hmmm, btw ot @Bruce: If John the jungle runner can, why not Bruce?

Bruce for Prez would make the USA not just great, you could make it awsome!

And i am quite sure many of us here know some /btards that could bring you into the mainstream media… Even twice, the second time would be them interviewing you how your grassroot fans managed to do that! 🙂

Maybe lizards can (pay others to) hack voting machines, a Bruce meme cult could (and would) hack this planet for you… For the lulz.

dan June 11, 2021 3:35 PM

@Grauhut,
I personally would want someone like Edward Snowden to be President. I know that is unrealistic considering that the government wants to arrest him, but I am sure that there are at least a handful of other people who would clash with the NSA and FBI in a big way (I am too lazy to look up the names of the other whistleblowers at the moment). Whistleblowers would be a good choice for this because it would be obvious to the public that there would be extreme conflict between them and the more shady parts of the U.S. Government. That would probably be enough to get the support of some of the approximately 40% of the eligible voters who don’t vote(see the comment by “Ergo Sum” for details).

chris June 11, 2021 3:35 PM

Found this Reuters article on the Apple/FBI showdown linked on another forum.

Apparently the FBI quietly admitted that there was nothing useful on the phone. The press ignored that part.

The quote from about halfway down the article is:
“The court showdown ended with a whimper when the FBI said it had found a way to get into the phone, and subsequently conceded privately it had found nothing of value.”

ianf June 11, 2021 3:36 PM

@ Chris I: [the FBI] “subsequently conceded privately it had found nothing of value”

If you say so. Maybe we should call this very moment The Birth of Privately Relayed Governmental Edicts, communicated on a need-to-concede basis.

@ Dan3264 “bad idea to praise the traitors”

Being called a traitor by some is not the same as being a traitor. Exactly whom did Edward Snowden betray when he disclosed the illegal doings of his own government against the very constituency that called it into being (and theoretically could recall it)?

tyr June 11, 2021 3:36 PM

@ianf et al,

How about putting Joan Baez on the ticket with Ed
Snowden ? I’m sure the nanny state lovers would
be thrilled by her prison reform ideas (tear them
all down). We’ve had far too many lockstep nitwits
in politics let’s try a few radical ideas for a
change. The only one who has made any sense in a
long time is Larry Lessig and because what he has
to say makes sense he has no charismatic plan to
fence and bomb and rob which would get votes.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 3:37 PM

@ Grauht,

Sorry, subconscious language mix up. I am hacking a little on a firewall in parallel.

You may be aware that there is a problem with spotting deep cover longterm infiltrators from other countries.

Well a Russian KGB Colonel had a theory that there was a way with women, he believed –rightly or wrongly– that the process of giving birth would cause a woman to scream out in her first language at puberty.

It’s apparently the reason why the CCCP trained some such “illegals” from childhood to speak only the language of the country they were destined for, right down to being fed recordings of regional accents (often Canadian) to “get the twang”.

Ross Snider June 11, 2021 3:37 PM

A Primer on Internet Structure

A nice little primer on the hidden “in the physical layer” structure of the internet,

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/how-the-internet-works-submarine-cables-data-centres-last-mile/

Importantly from a High Level / State surveillance perspective it shows where the “physical” choke points are where the likes of the FiveEyes+ etc add their data taps. And consiquently why the likes of TOR do not work as well as people think they should.

It also shows you where some nations have probably “mined” cables, such they can easily cut them in times of conflict (see what attacking the South China Seas, Western English Channel and West US seaboard nodes would effect).

Who!! June 11, 2021 3:38 PM

@ Goat
Do people here think that there needs to be a change in US law so that smartphones have their vulnerabilities patched?

Sure. Not only a change in U.S. law so smartphones[*] have their vulnerabilities patched but a change in law to have all vulnerabilities patched. I trust on operating systems like FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD, they are doing a fine job. Even if OpenBSD only patches the two more recent releases and -current, anyone can easily upgrade. We have a choice and, hopefully, operating systems that will allow us to get our systems up to date.

This change in law is critical for parts that are not under our control, like firmware. It is sad to see that, let us say, the ThinkPad X201 AMT is vulnerable to POODLE and will never be fixed because it is an old computer.

A lot of pre-Sandy Bridge computers manufactured between 1997 and 2010 are vulnerable to the memory sinkhole design flaw and that this bug will not be fixed even when most of these computers have upgradeable processor microcode.

Not to say Google’s Nexus 7 (model from 2012) that is vulnerable to stagefright, and will be never fixed, because this vulnerability (possibly the greatest vulnerability in Android history) was announced two weeks after ending support for this device. Even Microsoft published a fix to a zero-day exploit for Windows XP a month after officially finishing support to this operating system!

I am not asking for perpetual support to firmware, but at least security fixed should be backported on a reasonable amount of time. Anyone can do a choice about the operating system his computer runs, however we usually do not have a choice about firmware our devices run.

[*] I agree, however, with “dead android” and ianf. Perhaps we need no patches for Android/iOS/Windows Phone but new, security targeted, operating systems for phones. On the other hand, who wants a secure operating system for a device whose communication protocols and dependency on carriers infrastructure are inherently unsecure?

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 3:38 PM

@ Who?,

This change in law is critical for parts that are not under our control, like firmware.

In Europe and other parts of the world there is already legislation that could be used to do this.

Take a close look at the Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment (WEEE) directives. There are parts of it consumer electronics manufacturers (especially phones) are either ignoring or quite deliberatly avoiding. It would only take one well aimed court case to bring the mobile phone market to a massive grinding halt, followed by a significant re-evaluation and re-orientation. It’s the sort of shake up everyone –except a tiny few technologists- does not want to happen, thus their fingers are crossed and they look in other directions.

Who!!! June 11, 2021 3:40 PM

@ Clive Robinson

I am european citizen, so I would be glad seeing this legislation being applied.

However I do not trust at all on our courts. Look at privacy violations against european citizens by Google. Our courts are nearly apologizing Google each time this serious issue is managed in the European Union. It happened quite a few times in the last years. European citizens are not the owners of their own personal information, do not own their privacy that has been sell for nothing to U.S. based corporations, and Google knows it. Google not only denies our right to remove this information from its servers (only removing it from the European ones) and even makes an announcement to the publishers (let us say, a newspaper) so information can be easily indexed again.

I fear that TTIP will finally break any opportunity to do the right thing.

The only choice is enabling a law on the country where the manufacturer resides to make fixing software a requirement.

U.S. based corporations sniff at constitutional rights of people not living in the United States, as the U.S. government itself does. Sadly, the only way to get this fixed is through U.S. laws.

Only if U.S. government understands that a law like this one will be useful to fix their own equipment too…

Grauhut June 11, 2021 3:41 PM

@Clive: “And consiquently why the likes of TOR do not work as well as people think they should.”

Its even stranger, at least here in Germany.

Here in Germany things become really funny if you compare the thought to be known physical structure of the internet to the structure of the TOR network! They simply dont match. 🙂

Have a look at this screenshot from Torflow (torflow.uncharted.software)

http://up.picr.de/25715440qm.jpg

The undisputed TOR network central in Germany is located between Marburg and Kassel in the middle of rural mountain nowhere, if one trusts in Torflow data. To be exact, here:

https://goo.gl/h61Yxy (Google Maps)

The only super dark fiber i could imagine to exist in that area would be in Frankenberg (Eder). 😉

JonKnowsNothing June 11, 2021 3:41 PM

@Clive: “And consiquently why the likes of TOR do not work as well as people think they should.”

Its even stranger, at least here in Germany.

Here in Germany things become really funny if you compare the thought to be known physical structure of the internet to the structure of the TOR network! They simply dont match. 🙂

Have a look at this screenshot from Torflow (torflow.uncharted.software)

http://up.picr.de/25715440qm.jpg

The undisputed TOR network central in Germany is located between Marburg and Kassel in the middle of rural mountain nowhere, if one trusts in Torflow data. To be exact, here:

https://goo.gl/h61Yxy (Google Maps)

The only super dark fiber i could imagine to exist in that area would be in Frankenberg (Eder). 😉

Tatütata June 11, 2021 3:41 PM

Even Microsoft published a fix to a zero-day exploit for Windows XP a month after officially finishing support to this operating system!

How about releasing source code for no-longer supported OSes?

From a user perspective, XP is a rather decent OS, especially when you compare it to the MS latest offerings. I’m sure there would a few people ready to fix and improve an orphaned system.

I know, the concept sounds [and probably is] impractical and/or undesirable, but then there is a community working with woolly mammoths such as MVS running in emulators.

[BTW, I’m writing on an old XP laptop]

Gerard van Vooren June 11, 2021 3:42 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing

“Less that 10% of the BND German spy agency selectors are used to target terrorist/activities.”

Good! At least the BND has got their priorities straight.

“The rest is economic espionage.”

Those are your words. There is so much more to spy. For instance real national security threats. But … you are probably right.

r June 11, 2021 3:42 PM

@tatutata,

On the topic of releasing vacated projects/os’s as open source I am with you for educational institutions.

Other reasonings I’m uncertain of, but for educational reasons I believe less money should be wasted on the cadence of upgrade upgrade upgrade than the teachers… The books… Or the students.

It’s insane how much money is blown on things that two years from now will be deprecated, if that isn’t an argument against closed source environments I don’t know what is.

echo June 11, 2021 3:44 PM

http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/05/faulty-https-settings-leave-dozens-of-visa-sites-vulnerable-to-forgery-attacks/

The gist of it is that a) too many people reuse nonces, and b) pseudo-random nonces can be forced to repeat themselves under some circumstances, given enough trials. My question, then, is what is the correct generation method for a nonce if pseudo-randomness is insufficient? Combine randomness with a timestamp? Wikipedia’s nonce article mentions a need to synchronize the clock across an organization to make this work. Can someone clarify this?

goater June 11, 2021 3:44 PM

@ Grahut,

Marbugh, has a rather interesting University, the oldest in the Western World.

Whilst it is well known for science, it also has a strong “social sciences” repitation as well. Less well known is it’s closely affiliated maths and computer science departments. It also has a curious political dept involved with “middle east” studies.

Could be total coincidence, but then again not. I suspect that quite a few comp sci bods see “easy money” for communications research that is discrete to the point of secret. Especially when it comes to “well healed” government agencies.

As we now know in the US the FBI amongst others were quite happy to throw several million USD at Uni research that was kept oh so discrete…

Sceptical June 11, 2021 3:45 PM

@ Clive

That was actually one of the best, least-biased analyses I’ve seen of both Left and Right ideas on privilege plus their history. That was great! The reference to story with rich living in paradise for disease treament while crazy stuff happens all around them is apparently a timeless one. It applies to most wealthy, from Wall St to Silicon Valley. Just in different ways.

The one thing I disagree with is the conclusion where he shapes it as a battle between elites and wage class with both sides knowing everything is about to end or something. That’s unsupported. Instead, from my vantage point in America, it looks like a variation of the same model where various elites put on a show to let people think they’re being represented. Hillary is showing value to both voters and sponsors. Trump is doing the same. Sanders is doing the same. Their election isn’t likely to change trends author describes that are created by legislators and businesses. Those types of people will continue to get elected, hired, whatever to do what benefits them. The media, whose role is critical, continues to focus each demographic on its assigned opponents while ignoring the key issues that would change our system. I listed a few examples here.

Note: I also wonder if it was my Tupac comment on HN that inspired you to share this one. Interesting coincidence. 😉

@ r

“The proxy recommendation should be clarified as not meaning merely a socks/HTTPS proxy in a non-extradition state but a partner (person-proxy) in such a venue.”

Ideally but you have to get information to them. So, there needs to be covert communication mechanism to do that. A strong cryptosystem that poses as vanilla HTTPS to a site plenty of people connect to is best way to blend in. Alternatively, you use Tor, wifi hotspots outside camera range, meteor burst for important data pieces, or even postal system with magazines inside surrounding storage device. Just important that there’s no traceability to you while data is moving.

“Oh! I almost forgot, I wanted to ask you about the proper channels of anonymously reporting private and medical data leaks…”

I’ve been away from that topic for too long to be helpful. I’d say just make sure whoever you leak to doesn’t work for an organization that has conflict of interest that would lead to censorship. They need to have done similar exposes in the past. It can help to use foreign outlets if the issue is local where the foreign outlet publishes it followed by locals forced to report on it. The best I can do is give you this nice write-up by The Intercept on proper leaking. Others here might have saved other good write-ups they can post.

@ Grauhut

Sounds nice but three jumped out at me.

Use Android VM. That’s a surveillance platform, although hardening guides exist, which is targeted by blackhats and governments all over. What are your specific reasons for recommending it instead of a disposable netbook or iPhone on wifi?
“the FTC and cc the local sheriffs office at the corp headquarters address.” In the U.S., there’s strong cooperation by many local sherifs with the federal government in things like fusion centers. They also fight for hand-me-downs in form of money and equipment. One can’t rely on non-cooperation.
“dont try to play with mac addrs” Do play with mac addrs. Specifically, sniff out what MAC addrs are in use in the area you use for WiFi connections. Make a list of them. Then, whenever you show up, use a mac addrs from the list that isn’t currently in use. If any mac logging happens, there will be some confusion as to who to target later. This can clue you into people on your trail as well given folks start acting weird after LEO’s harass them.

@ Dan3264

re FPGA’s

“I do not plan on building anything anytime soon. I like overthinking things without any plan of action(It’s no fun to only think about practical things). Thank you for your detailed explanation of why it is a bad idea to use it(at least without including some sort of randomness extractor after the circuit). If I ever actually do something I will keep that in mind.”

Lol. Alright, alright. I’m not saying your scheme of using FPGA’s has no benefit. FPGA’s and obfuscations are among my short-term solutions until the ASIC’s come out. I’m just saying you have to remember that chip-level subversion can hit you hard regardless. You’re lowering risk of an unquantifiable risk. Meaning you’ll have to come up with some mitigation that assumes your chips will be hit. A transactional approach with multiple implementations from different countries/companies with verifiable, voter logic is Clive and I’s common approach. Not sure how I’m going to make that responsive on FPGA’s haha.

re Snowden for President

Terrible idea, homie. Let me tell you why, fan or opponent, that Snowden should never run a country. Here’s a few.

He doesn’t understand most Americans. Number 1 skill candidates have is knowing people and how they’ll react to things. Helps them manage them plus get them to march in one direction. Plus gets the votes despite everyone disagreeing with stuff. Also, side effect, they use media to their advantage to make stuff happen. Snowden thought leaking all domestic and foreign secrets he had would result in worldwide coverage, including U.S. media, that would lead to Americans changing everything. He obviously lived in an echo chamber that had no clue about what the right-wingers and some moderates thought about things. He also didn’t understand the media’s goals or responses to such things whereas I clearly predicted what would happen. You can bet his Presidential run would similarly be ineffective.

Building on 1, he has no feedback loop or willingness to adjust strategy to changing conditions on battlefield of minds. The Oliver interview shocked even me when Snowden said he thought everyone was talking about his leaks, debating surveillance states, and fighting with government for changes. Whereas, over here, nobody talks about that stuff or even cares outside a tiny segment of people. What the hell was he reading? Any politican or even business executive needs to be reading both friends and opponents’ statements… studying each… with a clear view of how successful or ineffective results they’re getting from any given thing. Snowden doesn’t have that despite it being really easy to get: read a few news papers with diametrically-opposite opinions. Shows he either has no access to Internet or is unwilling to study opponents. Bad sign.

He’s an idealist. Successful Presidents have to be pragmatists. They have to carefully consider effects of what they’re going to do. At the least, they have to be sure they’ll get away wit hit. At other end, they might have to craft strategy that has compromises that appeal to most parties at least a little. True in Congress especially. Snowden is more like Ron Paul: so totally committed to his pure ideology that a lack of compromise potential will keep him out of White House and with small effect in Congress. All this especially becomes more obvious if we thought of how Snowden might approach international treaty negotiations for globalization issues. He’d cringe every second as no approach would be acceptable to him plus not devastate whole countries or sectors of our economy.

So, what could he be good for? Well, sys admin obviously. I’d consider him for an analyst in an organization like GAO. That he’ll leak everything means he can’t be trusted for job like holding military-industrial complex accountable. So, GAO might not even be good. I’d put his ass on something like the Tor project or NIST cryptographic/IT standards where he doesn’t have access to national secrets but idealistic nature could protect civil liberties and American businesses. Foreign, too, given those both benefit foreign businesses and citizens when done right. That’s my take.

Grauhut June 11, 2021 3:45 PM

Use Android VM. That’s a surveillance platform … instead of a disposable netbook or iPhone on wifi?”

A one time android vm is great for this kind of job just because its an abc.gov trusted surveillance platform! 🙂

A lot cheaper than burner phones / notebooks

You can open a fresh google account with it without being asked for other credentials on first use

The resulting email account is trusted by mail server operators

If there is a surveillance cam in the coffee shop, fine, you are using a notebook, not a phone (-&gt; use an android arm kvm, have a local document with fitting timestamp metadata on the host os)

You can dispose it properly (secure erase the vm first and then the whole drive, put a prepared windows image on it, you should always have some kind of TSA safe border crossing image for your notebook anyway)

Even if someone checks your notebook, the mac address does not match to what the android vm and the access point saw (throw away that passtru 5 bucks china crap usb wifi stick asap;)

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 3:46 PM

There is no “correct generation method” as they all have failings one way or another.

The solution is to find a method that best meets your requirments.

There is nothing particularly wrong with pseudo-randomness providing you issolate it sufficiently such that it is for all practical purposes non determanistic and unique.

A simple way to do this is with a weak PRBG behind a strong crypto algorithm. In fact you can replace the PRBG with a counter which gives you the counter mode for a block cipher such as AES-CTR.

However you have to excercise care, because you have moved the problem “up the chain” to keeping two secret numbers, the AES key and the current value of the counter. Importantly not only has the counter to be incremented for every nonce generated, it must not get reset back to an old value across a reset / power fail / etc / etc.

Another perhaps easier method is on reset increment the key value and immediately save it to disk, then randomly select a start value for the counter. However this does not guarentee that all nonces will be unique.

Other systems use the idea of taking the current supposadly unique time and adding it to a secret value and then encrypting the result. Whilst this does remove the requirment for having to update the storage of the secret value and key it does have other disadvantages in that “time moves slowly” for large communications networks where you might have a need for hundreds of thousands or tens of millions of nonces a second.

True random number generators are problematic in that you can not guarentee “uniquness” in their output because they realy are “non determanistic” as well as glacialy slow in most cases when compared to CS-DRNGs. Thus you get into the problem of either taking a risk or storing each nonce in a DB and then checking each new number against it.

Thus you are probably best to use a CS-DRNG such as AES-CTR or other crypto stream generator and putting the required effort into securing both the AES key and current counter value.

The problem with TLS is that it uses AES-GCM which is like AES-CTR in effect a stream cipher, thus the uniquness of the IV in the counter is very important especially if shorter tags are used (see appx C in NIST doc). There are known attacks against GCM even though it is NIST approved, Ferguson and Saarinen described how an attacker can perform optimal attacks against GCM authentication, and Saarinen went on to describe a series of “weak keys” the description of which highlight the inner workings / failings of GCM.

echo June 11, 2021 3:46 PM

The one thing I disagree with is the conclusion where he shapes it as a battle between elites and wage class with both sides knowing everything is about to end or something.

His point in this area is that there are four basic classes,

1, Those without assets or work income.
2, Wage slaves / surfs.
3, Salaried rent seekers.
4, Asset (land) wealthy investors.

And that we are beyond a resource tipping point and have no sensible stratagem to deal with it currently (and head in sand bum in air is not a helpful posture).

He has written several books on the “peek foissil fuel” issue and has the quite reasonable view that like Nero US politico’s are fiddling whilst US society burns non renewable resources at an ever increasing rate.

Thus in the near future the energy that is the real driver behind the economy (remember my past comments about energy as currancy/wealth) will become to scarce thus expensive and thus the economy will fold back and society with it.

Thus the US and other Western Empires heavily dependent on cheap energy will suffer badly, and in many respects collapse in on it’s self (we have seen a tiny taste of this with the likes of Greece and the Euro Zone collapse).

History shows that what will follow will not be good, think 1930’s Europe or much earlier French Revolution followed by Napoleon.

Without cheap/plentiful energy Western especialy US life styles will not be possible and it will take only a generation or three to effectively slide back into feudalism of one sort or another depending on who “owns” what assets, and what others decide to do about it.

Thus there are several posabilities,

1, Colapse of Western society.
2, Mass reduction of energy usage.
3, Mass reduction of mankind.
4, Mankind finds new energy resources.

If mankind remains earth bound option four is not realisticaly going to happen. Currently mankind appears to be uninterested in reducing energy usage, especially in the West. Thus the collapse of Western Society appears likely. Which will as history shows with the likes of “water wars” end up with option three the reduction of mankind.

The west is particularly vulnerable to this because of a high population density compared to natural resources. Our western cities only work because energy brings in food water etc from afar, and takes out the garbage and sewage. Thus with lack of land the ability to grow enough food is at best a remote possibility. Worse most cities are designed on the principle of powered transportation thus shops in most places are not a short walk away as they were pre WWII.

Thus as I’ve noted a few times befor mankind needs to get out of the earths gravity well and exploit space whilst we still have the spare resources to do so. It might not have the sexiness of visiting Mars but getting up and running in near earth orbit and the moon are not something we can avoid doing if mankind wishes to expand or stay the same size. Rather than the otherwise inevitable and catastrophicaly colapse back to late 18th Century numbers and existance.

All the “Green Initiatives” are either fraud or delusional, we are consuming something like four times the amount of energy that gets to the earths surface, that can not go on, the maths will not alow it nor will physics, irrespective of what any political numpty might say otherwise…

CarpetCat June 11, 2021 3:47 PM

Rather than the otherwise inevitable and catastrophicaly colapse back to late 18th Century numbers and existance

Ballpark it for me, what are we talking about? An immediate reduction of people of roughly 5 billion, just to start? This brings us back to roughly 1975 numbers.

I’ve read recently, and in main stream sources sadly, that we may have hit peak oil- just like the so called loonies said. Now I wonder, especially with posts like yours, if the second half of what the peak oil crazys was saying was true as well: Namely, we’re doomed.

Seeing what was called crazy repeated in respectable print, almost down to the day/year, coupled with the commentary of those I respect here, and I’m afraid I’ve had quite the shock. A few economics experts are talking about transitioning away from an economy of oil, predicted 2020-2025 for the end of oil.

With that timeline, I don’t think we’re leaving planet Earth, and I don’t think there’s anything that can be done. Assuming everyone is correct that is.

I don’t know what’s more upsetting. The fact that we’re all gonna die, or the fact that some secret society of oligarchs will try to ‘control’ the collapse of western civilization. Only one way to tell, we’ll either run out of food one day, or see nukes/global virus first…

Dirk Praet June 11, 2021 3:47 PM

Well a Russian KGB Colonel had a theory that there was a way with women, he believed –rightly or wrongly– that the process of giving birth would cause a woman to scream out in her first language at puberty.

Probably a fan of Herodotus. In Histories 2.2, he describes an experiment by pharaoh Psamtik I to establish the world’s original language. Which turned out to be Phrygian.

  1. Mass reduction of mankind.

I take it you have already watched episode 6 of X-Files Season 10? The Cigarette Smoking Man is way ahead of you 😎

@ Anon10

Whatever money you might save switching to a Linux variant, a company or government would probably lose to increased tech support costs while trying to retrain their non-tech savvy user base to a new OS.

Not really. Switching from XP/Vista/Windows7 to a contemporary Windows-themed Gnome/KDE desktop for the average user is probably less of a change than a transition to Windows 8 or 10. The real issue is in retraining technical staff and porting/emulating specific applications for which no native Linux versions are available.

Leon June 11, 2021 3:48 PM

@Thoth – Oh come now, that’s hyperbolic about Ars – as Clive said it’s an opinion piece they’ve solicited, that’s all. Their own coverage of the trial has been solidly pro-Google.

(The writers I considered a problem at Ars have, thankfully, moved on)

What bothers me, frankly, is Florian Muller’s biased coverage (FOSSPatents), as he keeps saying he’s out of the legal game and making apps, but honestly he’s writing like an in-house Oracle writer, and even beyond…

MarkH June 11, 2021 3:48 PM

@Clive

Thank you for illuminating nonce practices for me. I must say I really enjoy reading your contributions to this site.

@CarpetCat

I doubt a secret cabal would survive any truly apocalyptic turn of events. I imagine the pressures of power and fear would cause reality to resemble a Game of Thrones episode more so than any illuminati-style conspiracy.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 3:49 PM

@ CarpetCat,

Ballpark it for me, what are we talking about? An immediate reduction of people of roughly 5 billion, just to start? This brings us back to roughly 1975 numbers.

No it’s more complicated than world population alone, as some countries will actually improve, whilst Wstern WASP type nations will suffer.

The first UK census in 1801 showed thr population of the UK as ~10.5million, the current prediction is a little under 6times that, with net migration actually increasing (the brighter rats are already leaving).

Back in 1801 the UK had food imports but mainly of luxury items, and natural spices/preservatives and the all important tea and sugar.

In the census of 1911 it was 41million and a few short years later in WWI the new U-Boat threat was having significant effects on food imports. Historians have indicated that the UK population limit without food imports is around 30million which is around 1880’s levels.

However back in the 1880’s the diet in the UK was low in meat and dairy products and there were still the likes of tenant farmers living on diets based mainly on potatoes grown in small areas of land under 1000sqM. I know a thousand square meters of land sounds large to people who have only a few square feet of window box space, but it’s about the smallest area of land required to reliably feed a family in UK Midlands climate on a mainly root vegtable diet (potatoes being the only “whole food” that grows well in the UK). Which trust me is not a diet you want to live on, even before you consider what happened with the Irish Potato famine, and what nearly happened a few years later with the Scotish Potato famine. But depending on who you listen to less than one tenth of the UK land mass is suitable for farming potatoes and we no longer have plentiful fish stocks in UK territorial waters and aquaculture so far (salmon farming) is realy a disaster area environmentally and not possible without plentiful cheap fossil fuel supplies.

Contrary to what many people think the worlds highest population densities are in European cities. With the last time I looked Brussels having 6.5K/sqKM, in no way are these population densities sustainable. Likewise most European urban population densities without significant health risks.

Europe would be looking at halving it’s population and the US well some people think that it could squease by at 300 million but only with subsistance level living. Other countries in some parts of the far east etc could actually increase their populations a little, back to their fairly recent pre-industrialised levels.

And the honest answer is we have no real idea, there is a lot we don’t know. For instance omega three levels continue to fall in our current food production techniques, so we are obviously doing something wrong there that we need to address. But also we already have considerable technological advances, that we don’t need to invent so our energy utilisation in some areas is vastly improved over that of only a quater of a century ago. Further it takes a lot less energy to recycle metals etc than it does to mine&refine them to start off with. East Germany actually had some of the best recycling rates in the world –out of need– whilst also having some of the most poluting energy production. Likewise in more human terms whilst living standards were not that great in the old Eastern Europe during the later stages of the cold war they were far better than 19th Century London…

One thing that is clear is that our attempts at renewable energy are actually quite dire for various reasons Germany for instance is not the best place in the world for uninterupted sun light, thus we may actually have a larger total carbon foot print using solar energy there than burning coal in modern high efficiency power plants. Likewise burning bio-mass has a much higher carbon foot print due to it’s dirty nature and transportation.

But there are things we don’t know, like will large solar arrays in deserts actually cause localised climate change due to taking the energy out and thus moving the atmospheric heating effect to another part of the world? For instance 9/11 caused aircraft to cease flying for three or four days, and there were marked climate effects noted due to a drop in atmospheric particulates that reflect sunlight back away from the earths surface… So we realy do not know what is good or bad overall…

Gerard van Vooren June 11, 2021 3:49 PM

@ Clive Robinson,

Have you read Collapse from Jared Diamond? In there he mentions 12 points that have collapsed societies and will collapse current societies within a time frame of approx 50 years (the book is from 2005 so let’s make it 40 years). The problem is that each of these points intervene which makes it complex and also that if you solve a couple of these points for a society there are still plenty of points that need to be solved. The funny part (it’s actually very sad) is that I don’t hear “our politicians” talking about any of these points (except Al Gore), so when the shit hits the fan it’s gonna be a mess.

Drone June 11, 2021 3:49 PM

@John Connett,

“As with Climategate the media focus is on the content of the leak rather than how it happened.”

It’s not that the media isn’t interested in the leaker. In reality the opposite should be true; the media should want their sources to be credible. The likely reason there’s no focus on the leaker, is to protect the source.

@Ergo Sum,

“FBI raids security researcher home”

Sounds like a Honeypot. As for the FBI, the thinking goes like this: So this guy must be guilty of something, otherwise why would he be be vuln-probing a health care site in the first place. Let’s go over there at the break of dawn and teach him a lesson or two.

Andy June 11, 2021 3:50 PM

@Clive Robinson

For instance 9/11 caused aircraft to cease flying for three or four days, and there were marked climate effects noted due to a drop in atmospheric particulates that reflect sunlight back away from the earths surface… So we realy do not know what is good or bad overall…

While the CO2 expenditures and the ablative effects of upper-stratospheric clouds seem obvious, isn’t there also a greenhouse effect caused by increased moisture in the air via thermodynamics?

I don’t have any idea about the intricacies of the economics/mathematics behind this anomaly, but that’s what it seems like: an anomalous event… Perhaps certain volcanic eruptions and flight groundings could add more data and insight?

tyr June 11, 2021 3:50 PM

@Clive

McKenna said if the women in the western world adopted
a single child birth each the drain on resources can
reduce since each of their children uses 800 times as
much as a Bangladeshi child over their lifetime.

The problem with that as a beginning solution is that
no old white guys are in the decision loop. Women can
do this and save us all from our stupidity but no one
even talks about it as a solution, not even radical
feminists. The general ideas you see proposed involve
business as usual behaviors (war, murder, destruction of
someone elses infrastructures). The idea something
without the ridiculous mobocracy is possible doen’t
seem to get into the level where things are decided by
primate me first posturings.

If you start talking about planetary engineering and
sensible population control behaviors most people are
inclined to think you just grew two more heads. That
means that the real obstacles are cultural baggage
that will doom most of us just like it did the Greenland
Vikings. With the cultural baggage around your neck
like the Albatross of the Ancient Mariner you better
hope some survivor of an ancient culture is around to
tell you which weeds and seeds are edible or become
Cambodian style bones. Those should make you aware of
how fragile the average city dweller is without the
massive social infrastructure that surrounds us.

I had some climate expert tell me that the sun has
nothing to do with climate change. There’s no cure for
that level of stupidity. We could quite easily float
a mylar shade into orbit and block incoming sunlight.
Couple that with planting a few more trees each and
suddenly temperature drops and CO2 levels drop. What
are we doing instead, arguing whether it’s real and
mulching the tropical forests into cardboard boxes
to sell crap in. I see some Brit General nitwit has
decided the Russians are going to roll through the
Fulda gap next year and attack NATO. No one says it
but with all of the IC spy capability I’d expect to
see a few satellite photos of troops in motion by now.
Granddad taught me to recognize bullshit early on in
life and that smells pretty bad.

I don’t think “nuclear winter” is the right model for
climate engineering unless you’re a moron.

Wesley Parish June 11, 2021 3:51 PM

@Clive Robinson

It also shows you where some nations have probably “mined” cables, such they can easily cut them in times of conflict (see what attacking the South China Seas, Western English Channel and West US seaboard nodes would effect).

which would be pure guiness, wouldn’t it? Pure Genius!

I can imagine how the world stock markets might react to suddenly losing access to timely information. Or rather, I don’t need to imagine – 2008 was all about the trading banks suddenly realizing they had no confidence in other trading banks’ statements of liquidity. No confidence whatsobloodyever.

That would a clear case of biting one’s nose off to spite one’s face.

@Tatütata

I wholeheartedly back all calls for Microsoft to open the source of its unsupported OSes and applications – though I generally take into consideration the need of said company to remain solvent and generally think that it should be two releases gone before the source gets released under a suitable Free and Open Source license.

In the case of the Microsoft Windows NT source trees, there’s a slight hitch in that it is the development of two prior and separate source trees, IBM/MS OS/2 1.x and 2.x and DEC VAX VMS. It’s a long story.

But I’ve been wanting Microsoft, IBM, and HP (the inheritors of DEC via Compaq) to do a joint release of the said source trees DEC VAX VMS, IBM?MS OS/2 1.x and 2.x, and MS Windows NT 3.x and 4.x – though now that MS Windows is now at least two iterations away from the NT 5.x releases, I could gleefully throw those in as well.

It’s part of computer history that should not only be studied, but also played around with, and releasing it under a decidedly software-patent-unfriendly license such as the FSF GPL v3 should go a long way to relieving fears of Yet Another Round of The SCO Group Legal Infection.

My 0.02c

Tor June 11, 2021 3:51 PM

I wholeheartedly back all calls for Microsoft to open the source of its unsupported OSes and applications – though I generally take into consideration the need of said company to remain solvent and generally think that it should be two releases gone before the source gets released under a suitable Free and Open Source license.

The very last thing on Earth Microsoft wants is for anyone to take over maintenance of Windows XP
(or for that matter XP-vintage versions of Office) under an open-source license. They have enough trouble getting people to move to the current incarnations of Windows (and Office) as it is – to a point where they’re giving Windows 10 away for free now and, judging from the slew of “How can I stop my machine from upgrading” articles I see in computer magazines, many people still don’t seem to want it.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 3:51 PM

@ Confused,

I don’t have any idea about the intricacies of the economics/mathematics behind this anomaly, but that’s what it seems like: an anomalous event…

I’m not sure anyone has a good grip on the mathmatics of climate dynamics. However it was if you want to call it an anomaly regionaly localised in an area with low population but high overhead flight traffic. The argument was that the contrails of the aircraft caused energy to be reflected back into space and thus not reach the earths surface below (clouds have a similar effect). It’s been part of the argument about engineering solutions to global warming.

A paper[1] published in the Journal Nature by David Travis and his team at the University of Wisconsin made the necessary measurements, crunched the data for a nine day period of the three days befor the groundings, the three days of the groundings and the three days after the groundings.

You can read a more ordinary human friendly piece on the contrail effect,

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/contrail-effect.html

[1] http://facstaff.uww.edu/travisd/pdf/jetcontrailsrecentresearch.pdf

Dirk Praet June 11, 2021 3:52 PM

@ tyr, @ Clive

McKenna said if the women in the western world adopted a single child birth each the drain on resources can reduce since each of their children uses 800 times as much as a Bangladeshi child over their lifetime.

The problem with such statements is that they are purely academic. Given half a choice, Bangladeshi children (and their parents) would happily move to the West in a jiffy and/or adopt the same resource consumption patterns if such resources were available and affordable. We’re already seeing that happen with emerging middle classes in countries like India and China.

I don’t think “nuclear winter” is the right model for climate engineering unless you’re a moron.

For the power and resource hungry elites of this planet, it doesn’t really matter what the right model is as long as they get to profit from a model that works for them. Violence hardly ever is the right solution either, but history has shown us that it will generally be applied by those who think or know can prevail through it.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 3:52 PM

The figures for the solar energy reaching the earths surface are disputed in many ways.

Whilst we know fairly accurately how much energy from the sun hits the face of the earth facing the sun it’s disputed as to how much of it in a usable form actually gets to the surface and not reflected by water vapour, stored and reradiated at a different frequency a short time later etc. Further the energy usage figures are a bit of a fudge as well as they largely do not include bio-mass consumption that would in time become new foissil fuels due to incineration of waste from food production etc, etc.

Which is why one measure of energy consumption is by changes in green house gasses ratios such as water, carbon dioxide methane etc.

It’s these changes that indicate the excess usage of foissil fuel and bio-mass energy, and why we are consuming it at a rate of around four times greater than the earth is locking it up to become new foissil fuels.

But the real issue is how do we get usable solar energy. less than one percent of the energy from the sun can be captured in a useful form to replace foissil fuel usage. It is either to diffuse or of the wrong wavelength for the likes of PV collection and we can only devote a small area of land away from it’s other uses such as for food production. Which is the problem we need high energy density at the point of collection/convertion to make it viable and we don’t get that with solar energy.

Whilst plants are more effective at utilizing solar energy have a look at what percentage of the worlds usable farm land would be needed to create bio-fuel just to run US SUV’s for a year, then do the math for the rest of the US energy consumption.

But there is another problem and that is losses due to energy transmission. It does not matter how you do it moving energy is very inefficient overall and where solar energy would be exploitable is vast distances from where it would be consumed and depending on how you mrasure it anything upto 50% of the collected/converted energy would be lost to transmission over it’s usable life time. It’s why Chinese made PV pannel usage in germany shows a greater carbon footprint overall than burning coal dug out of the ground in Germany and used in high efficiency CHP systems…

JG4 June 11, 2021 3:53 PM

Many people continue to claim that cheap energy is a requirement for an economy and that the end of cheap oil more or less means the end of civilization as we know it. There also seems to be some confusion that any economy requires growth to sustain debt, and growth requires cheap energy. The Archdruid, Kunstler, Nature Bats Last and others are squarely in that camp. While I see collapse as a likely outcome of the current trajectory, it is not the only possibility. Most of the debt associated with fracking will not survive 2017, but that is just a modest slice of the bigger picture and backwards to the premise that cheap fossil fuels are required to sustain debt. Thanks for mentioning JMG. I often forget to read his fascinating blog. Just for the record, my favorite Kunstler column, thus far, is “Two Peckerheads.” He only rarely achieves that level of snap, crackle and pop. JMG is invariably thought-provoking. I would have no problem with any of the collapsitarians, even if they were wrong, because they bring additional viewpoints to the discussion.

Clearly cheap energy is a requirement for the Western lifestyle as it is practiced today, but cheap energy is not a requirement for having an economy. All that is required to have an economy is two people with the inclination to barter. The transition from an economy powered by cheap fossil fuels to any sustainable economy will not be particularly smooth, and economic collapse is a reasonable description of the end of empire. If transportation networks and/or industrial agriculture fail, population densities in urban areas will be reduced very quickly by one to two orders of magnitude. When the going gets tough, the tough start eating other people. BTW, brains are a rich source of omega-3 fatty acids, which is why owls eat only the brains when they are otherwise saturated on mice.

I’m not sure that collapse is the only way forward, but the problem isn’t with availability of alternative energy. There is more than enough sunlight falling on the earth for everyone to have and maintain a Western lifestyle until the sun goes dim. Hubbert’s point that there are sufficient nuclear fuel reserves for tens of thousands of years of Western lifestyle for everyone on the planet should not be overlooked, though I am not sure that your species has the intellectual capacity to safely manage nuclear power. We could hope that fourth generation nuclear power is safe, compatible with other renewable energy sources and helpful in making a smooth transition.

If collapse is the only path to the future, the root causes are a collective inability to recognize cause and effect, lack of scalability of trust, the continuing collapse of trust as it becomes clear how corrupt all or almost all governments are, a general inability to construct governments that are not crippled by conflicts of interest and a collective failure of imagination. In short, the real problems are not technological, they are social.

@Clive

There is another data point on the potato genocide, which is the fact that Ireland went from being the most densely populated country in Europe to the least densely populated in the space of ten years. I’m not trying to incite debate by calling it genocide. It isn’t like the Irish didn’t kidnap slaves from England for thousands of years. Given a different trajectory of money and power, the Irish would have been only too happy to visit genocide on the English, much as the war criminals in the US have visited genocide on people around the world. One man’s economic opportunity is another man’s genocide. It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 3:54 PM

@ Wesley Parish,

That would a clear case of biting one’s nose off to spite one’s face.

Only for some nations, primarily those WASP nations where the internet is now a major transportation / infrastructure component of their way of life.

A large part of fighting a war these days is “force multipliers” WASP nations have high tech smart weapons and delivery systems. Which work realy well if you are fighting another similar technological nation, but don’t work well against a nation who’s principle internal economic activity is goay hearding, and extetnal economic activity is growing opiates for the relife of various malidies those living in WASP nations appear to develop as part of their life style.

Thus “asymetric warefare” works on many levels, you don’t need a nuclear arsenal to bring the US to it’s knees just a credible way to destroy it’s economy whilst not effecting your own.

It’s why the idea of NOBUS is such a joke because it’s a two way exchange. The bugs in security for NOBUS only work against those of a similar capability as yourself which of course includes you… But don’t work against people who have different capabilities. They however then can chearfully exploit NOBUS against you as it has no effect on them…

We have seen this before with the likes of steam battle ships. Whilst they had incredible advantages over sail they had an Achilles heal of needing coal in very large quantities. Thus had not only a limited range compared to sail, they also had vast areas of the globe that were “nogo” places as there was no coal there… We saw the same again as coal transitioned to oil, but to a lesser extent as oil is effectivly more energy dense and usable than coal.

Oh and back in the 80’s and 90’s due to the masive hike in oil prices –from five to fourty five USD a barrel–, for a while we saw a prototype, partial transition back to sail to reduce the use of oil for any given journey…

The problem we have with warfare these days is that most of it does not happen on battle fields in the middle of nowhere, it happens in banking houses and the homes of the poor, and the later are realising it’s in their interest to “kill the bankers and their friends and families via any vulnerable route”. The one think 9/11 should have taught us but appears to have been missed by most, is it is when the technology we depend on is weaponised by others and turned against us we are at our most vulnerable… and oh boy in WASP nations do we have a load of very vulnerable technology to ruin our lives, as even the occasional gopher proves by nibbling through a data cable etc.

An idea for you to turn into a story. As you know High Frequency Trading has an issue with the speed of light, it’s just to darned slow, so the traders pay for tunnels to be cut in mountains so that a few micro seconds advantage can be gained by reducing path length and the latency caused by repeaters etc. Think on how information unstable such an arangment is due to feed back/forwards effects. Imagine if you will a mouse or rat nibbling through a cable and causing the world HFT markets to go into destructive self oscillation with each swing vastly increasing transaction value thus paper profits as a percentage there of, but in reality causing massive losses due to confusion and confidence loss. So like 2008 but a thousand times worse.

goater June 11, 2021 3:54 PM

Don’t worry about preserving your lifestyle if you’re worried about some sort of collapse, worry about adapting your lifestyle and preserving your life.

Guns, the equipment to service/maintain them and produce you own ammo, Wells/Water and the equipment to service/maintain them, Food to a lesser extent?… You should be off to a good start.

After the housing ‘crash’ only an idiot would need to make $100k a year to survive unless the collapse is a long inflationary drain and you’re not a producer of some sort.

Sensors and some way to generate an arbitrary amount of power for your well[s]. this is in line with guns as a defense, think ahead don’t worry yourself to death and you won’t have to worry so much about a stroke/coronary.

Just being able to repack ammunition of every conceivable kind is in line with being a producer as it’s worth it’s weight in gold easily.

I feel bad for people in cities, I have enough walnut trees and squirrels in my back yard to keep me occupied for a while.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 3:54 PM

@ JG4,

All that is required to have an economy is two people with the inclination to barter.

But that is the wrong sort of economy, there is no space to either take a percentage as a middleman or in otherways “rent seek” a large slice off the top for no better reason than you can make it that way.

The primary reason for replacing bartering with currency transactions is as Jesus put it to “render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser’s”. We call it seniorage, but it also makes “tax taking” for the king more accountable thus less likely to make wealthy those who could become enemies seeking to take the,”top job”.

For all it’s bad money has advantages in that in the past it helped reduce price variation and a significant amount of work you would otherwise have to do to off loading the cabbages you had grown then trade several times in order to find something the thatcher would accept in return for fixing your roof.

However over time another evil of currancy arose. Originaly currancy had real value being made of precious metals thus it maintained it’s apparant value with respect to other assets like land. Eventually some realised that seperating the currancy from the value of the precious metal had advantages, because it alowed inflation, which beggers the asset poor whilst at the same time enriching the asset rich. You only have to look at the graph of the monetary value of London Houses over the past eight years to see this.

CallMeLateForSupper June 11, 2021 3:55 PM

Throw technology at the problem; that always goes well.

“An Israeli start-up says it can take one look at a person’s face and realize character traits that are undetectable to the human eye.

Faception said it’s already signed a contract with a homeland security agency to help identify terrorists. The company said its technology also can be used to identify everything from great poker players to extroverts, pedophiles, geniuses and white collar-criminals.

“’We understand the human much better than other humans understand each other,’ said Faception chief executive Shai Gilboa. ‘Our personality is determined by our DNA and reflected in our face. It’s a kind of signal.’”

Personality is determined by DNA? I think not. Gilboa is just re-surfacing the very old nurture/nature discussion.

“Faception has built 15 different classifiers, which Gilboa said evaluate with 80 percent accuracy certain traits. The start-up is pushing forward, seeing tremendous power in a machine’s ability to analyze images.”

80% accuracy, and only on certain unspecified “traits”. Wow. I am underwhelmed!

I laughed (in derision) at “seeing tremendous power in a machine’s ability to analyze images”. (Anyone who doesn’t understand why would not understand an explanation.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2016/05/24/terrorist-or-pedophile-this-start-up-says-it-can-out-secrets-by-analyzing-faces/

ianf June 11, 2021 3:55 PM

[Apology for late replies, but you guys are soooo fast typists, I can barely keep up with reading new posts, let alone respond to selected of these your Avalanches of Deep Thoughts Worthy of Dilbert-ation.]

@ Spooky thinks that “the amount of devotion required [to master all the tech that one simply would like to be a consumer of] is starting to rapidly exceed his energy reserves”

I long for the days of early “word-processing” when there were essentially single-function hardcoded tabletop electronic typewriters with displays – pricy, but leaving one in no doubt as to what they were for, and maximum capable of. I never got one because of the cost, but also because I expected luggable laptops to arrive any day soon, such that could be connected to any Xerox machine to dump the copy with laser printer quality (which basically never happened, except for one Hitachi copier line in late 1990s).

@ tyr, regarding a Joan Baez—Ed Snowden ticket
what has Joan Baez done to you lately, that you’d be willing to spoil her golden years? On second thoughts: don’t tell me.

Later, tyr declares a winner in the No Revolution Without Poetry contest, and concludes by trusting that it clears up misunderstanding of the interNet for the new spooky boy.

Actually, I wasn’t aware of there being such a (annual? permanent?) revolutionary poetry contest, but, anyway, reading the linked intel preceded by your elucidation only confused me more… so, thanks but no thanks.

@ Clive Robinson dips his writing toe—that’s a metaphor!—in the murky waters of Russian-spy-themed urban legends (lake): a Russian KGB Colonel had a theory that… giving birth would cause a female spy to scream out in her родной язык (=thus potentially destroying the cover by giving away her true origin).

A Colonel, you say—I presume one familiar with the procedure, of the opposite sex and contradictory gender. TELL US NOW ALL YOU KNOW about the lengths that the KGB would(n’t) go to to train future femme illegals in the art of Linguistically Appropriate Birthing Yelps (I’m all ears!)

Later on, by Clive recommended “Primer on Internet Structure”… (showing where the physical surveillance undersea cable choke points are) evokes a memory of this tale of Mother of All Data Traffic Cock-ups by no less an Internet giant than Eric Thomas of the ListServ fame.

I no longer recall the year, nor the exact traffic volumes, but it happened before the global (=US/Europe) academic Internet came into being, so around 1988-1989. At that time there were no non-commercial undersea cables, so all acad 9600baud IP traffic was piggybacked in between, within strict agreed time-slot limits. The sole such link to Europe was between CUNY in NYC, and some university in coastal northern France. Mail and Usenet traffic volumes between them weren’t huge, on the order of low tens of MB/day. There was some reception glitch at the French side (funding has run out or something), which prevented offloading (“ACK-ing”) the accumulating US data. After 2 weeks or so of that, the Americans did the only sober thing, moved the not-transmitted hoard onto a couple of IBM tapes, and air-freighted them over to France. Except that the French powers that be were right then at each others’ throats over fund allocation, demarcation lines, assignment of blame past and future, etc., – so they sent the tapes right back to NYC (claiming being unable to read them into the same IBM mainframes that they all used). The Yanks were non-plussed, but what could they do? When the traffic flows finally were reestablished, it took them several months to clear up the backlog. End of this Mother…

@ XP […] “finding enough people to maintain a widely-used OS like XP should be no problem. In fact, I bet they would do a better job than Microsoft ever did.” (cc: Tatütata)

Yes, because volunteers do such a stellar job of maintaining umpteen forks of Linux and whatnot.

Winter June 11, 2021 3:56 PM

@Vatos
The way to do it would be to make the providers financially liable for not patching within a reasonable time frame.

The issue seems to be that handset manufacturers are taking too long to implement patches provided by Google (or not implementing at all on older phones, some of which they still sell). Let’s be clear that the mfgrs do need sufficient time to implement and test.

When it starts costing the mfgrs real money (and remember that the Android phone business is extremely low margin), they will take steps to streamline their process. They might hire more engineers with security backgrounds. They might engineer the hardware for more uniformity to make testing easier. And finally, they might pressure Google to write a more secure Android and/or an Android that is easier to patch.

albert June 11, 2021 3:56 PM

on the se asia hackin… i think nk is seizing the moment w se asia vs cn tensions, and taking what they can while they can. A billion is a fat portion of their yearly national revenue.

This shows illumination in just how much they regard cn as critical protector.

Problem is, how can they stop? Tensions between se asian countries and cn wont stop soon.

Cant arrest a country. And can’t invade.

Took years for us and cn to stop economic hacking wars, now this starts up.

ianf June 11, 2021 3:56 PM

@ rrrrrr “buy a wood stove.”

Better still, learn how to transform large metal (paint, etc) cans, steel buckets and other household objects into usable wood stoves for cooking and heating using but hand tools (also recycle no longer viable electric & gas ditto).

Buy (and hide from covetous eyes!) a few Biolite Campstoves with 2W USB charging, and some solar-powered LED, hand-cranked radio with a lamp and a few Gravity Lights (when they make it to the market), and you should be set for life for the rest of the nuclear winter in your well-camouflaged cave in the boondocks.

@ 12 30 4 thank you for not employing the upper case of the alphabet which made your text so much less distinctive more tedious at a glance that it directly told me not to attempt to read closely and translate it into understandable language next time do away with interpunction who needs it way to go

Gerard van Vooren June 11, 2021 3:57 PM

@ JG4,

“While I see collapse as a likely outcome of the current trajectory, it is not the only possibility.”

I agree. It’s undeniable that we are gonna face some serious problems in the near future. The question is how these problems are gonna land, is that hard or soft? The way we are operating today it’s obvious gonna be hard. I mean just look at the financial crisis. If we want a soft landing the problems need to be on the agenda.

“We could hope that fourth generation nuclear power is safe, compatible with other renewable energy sources and helpful in making a smooth transition.”

The problem is that each new technology brings side effects that are easy overlooked at the beginning, then the side effects turn out to be nasty and in the end the side effects are worse than the technology in the first place. But hope in future technology is also a very good distractor for the problems we are facing. For instance, the hope for the hydrogen car killed the electric car (on purpose?). Or future batteries have a better lifespan and capacity. It’s rubbish of course. If we simply accepted that electronic cars have worse performance than gasoline cars but overall they are better for the environment, then the electronic car would have won by now.

So I am not really fond for new technologies that could expand the lifestyle we have today. We better start to discuss the problems we are facing and make a plan of action if we want to have soft landings. The fact that we are looking away an masse for the problems doesn’t make me feel that we are “on top” of these.

Dirk Praet June 11, 2021 3:57 PM

@ CallMeLateForSupper

An Israeli start-up says it can take one look at a person’s face and realize character traits that are undetectable to the human eye.

I thought phrenology and the like had been debunked as pseudo-science as early as the mid nineteenth century. As far as I know, the last people to take it serious were some lunatic Belgian and the nazis.

goat June 11, 2021 3:58 PM

@ianf “Yes, because volunteers do such a stellar job of maintaining umpteen forks of Linux and whatnot.”

How many XP forks do you think there would be? I can’t see more than two or three being actively developed.

“Better still, learn how to transform large metal (paint, etc) cans, steel buckets and other household objects into usable wood stoves for cooking and heating using but hand tools (also recycle no longer viable electric & gas ditto).”

Good advice, and it wouldn’t take long to learn such skills. Here’s an impressive example, the “Ranger Stove” built from three tin cans and a single screw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMTUfNoJPws

echo June 11, 2021 3:59 PM

@ Grauhut

HOLY SHIT! Thanks for the link. I knew VMS team’s experience inspired WinNT design. I had no idea they were basically the same OS! That’s just crazy. Brilliantly done by Microsoft, though. I recall a parody written a while back making fun of idea of someone using an OpenVMS desktop. Joke is on them given another OpenVMS desktop has been dominating their UNIX boxes for some time. Gonna have to counter that with this link next time I see it. 😉 Few comments follow.

“Microsoft renamed OS/2 NT as Windows NT”

Kills rumor of VMS -> WNT letters. Just a coincidence given it wasn’t called Windows at the time.

” From 1990 to NT’s public release in August 1993, Cutler’s team was in a mad dash to complete NT, and the project grew to involve more than 200 engineers and testers.”

One commenter asked what I was going to ask: where’s the stability of VMS in all the shit they cloned? Most likely this line explains it where they were all time to market on new hardware. Plus, integrating legacy OS’s and third-party code drove complexity up. Building something huge, kind of unknown, and in a hurry led to the metric ton of vulnerabilities that follow. Makes sense even though I think they could’ve done better QA. They delayed it given they wanted market immediately for First Mover advantage. They’re at least pretty honest about it here.

“This native API is mostly undocumented, because applications are supposed to speak Win32, DOS, OS/2, POSIX, or Win16, and these respective OS environments interact with the kernel on the application’s behalf.”

This is worth remembering when people talk about how special WINE is. I remember being amazed it could run API’s of several OS’s at once without using full virtualization. It already existed on mainframes but those were PC’s.

“you can read sections of VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures (Digital Press) as an accurate description of NT internals simply by translating VMS terms to NT terms. ”

That’s amazing. Anyone with the author’s book on Windows Internals can put this to the test using bitsaver’s free copy of VMS Internals. I also found Prism here. It’s forward-thinking stuff that was basically a 64-bit, RISC-based, vector-enabled NUMA machine with enhanced, parallel VMS on it. Aside from RISC & VMS, that’s what enterprise servers running both Windows and UNIX looked like over time. DEC shouldn’t have cancelled Prism. Further, look at page 14 of PDF reader if you have any doubt that DEC funded R&D for Microsoft and pre-empted cloud VMM’s. 🙂

“Digital cut a deal with Microsoft. In the summer of 1995, Digital announced Affinity for OpenVMS, a program that required Microsoft to help train Digital NT technicians, help promote NT and Open-VMS as two pieces of a three-tiered client/server networking solution, and promise to maintain NT support for the Alpha processor. Microsoft also paid Digital between 65 million and 100 million dollars.”

More like they gave Microsoft a deal! That’s the most ridiculous terms I could think of. They should’ve pushed on with that lawsuit citing Microsoft’s market cap in damages. Maybe a two-digit percentage. Instead, these fools negotiate to offer themselves up to support Microsoft tech and ask that they nicely put it on a processor that was in decline. They also settled for under $100 million on a year when Microsoft’s theft of their market plus old customers made them $3.5 billion in profit. Numbers like these illustrate why the Russian model involved spies and R&D centers for Western companies in their own country. Cheaper R&D. 🙂

Great comment on the site showing how ridiculous the support part was: “One part of the deal included MS subsiding the creation of Digital’s MS Services practice and the training of DEC’s personnel. But this was a move MS was going to make anyway in order to create a global enterprise-class support org such that MS could claim as many MCSE’s were certified on NT and there were Unix support professionals in the market. Thus MS could be positioned as enterprise-ready and as supportable as Unix. Secondly, MS guaranteed they’d outsource a large % of their helpdesk calls to Digital call centers. Again, this was MS’s model anyway. In that time period when you made a call to the MS helpdesk, and the person on the other end answerered “Hello. This is Microsoft, can I help you?” you were actaully talking to a Digital, NCR, HP, or Vanstar employee in their respective call centers. And even this arrangement was a joke because MS paid so little to DEC and other support partners on a per-incident basis (I recall the math was $25 per call which meant over 10-15 min’s in length and you lost money on that particular call), and MS required so much reporting infrastructure and annual training hours, that the support vendors were left with no margin. In the end most of the big vendors finally got out of the MS desktop support business because it was a money loser. All of this came out of the theft of VMS! Even when they get caught they win.”

So, they negiated to provide low-margin support of Microsoft’s profits while absorbing the costs of doing so and letting Microsoft dictate it. I knew DEC’s management got bad but that’s horrible.

“Now that Compaq has acquired Digital, will VMS continue to evolve, or will NT seal the fate of its predecessor?”

Such a question might have sounded more hopeful if I didn’t already know the answer. Fun read, though. Shows what 200 FOSS engineers reading VMS Internals, stripping and updating where possible, could accomplish in a desktop OS. Also, given they’re internally similar, shows us what would likely happen to OpenVMS if a Windows-like amount of attention from black hats hit it. At least, it still has it’s reliability claims haha.

tyr June 11, 2021 3:59 PM

@Clive. et al

I saw a lab solar cell with 34.5 efficiency so the
tech is solved if it can go mass production (or
show us how to make them with common materials).

The real problem is that the infrastructure folk
want to hang onto the useless archaism called a
power grid for the residential captive audience.
You will see the so called third world bloom as
they did with telephone because instead of stringing
multiple copper lines to get it working they just
put up a few towers. Anyone who has done utility
trenching in urban areas knows there is a nest
of interlocked snakes buried under the street.
Much of it obselete and the rest busy deteriorating.

If you get the predicted sea level rises one nice
niche occupation would be underwater copper mining
in abandoned cities. Point of usage generation is
a lot more sensible but most governments and utility
companies insist you hook up to their useless ancient
grid so it still has a reason to be. It like the Net
grew like mopsy and topsy with no clear idea of what
was intended for the future. Clive and others here
know that the future is already here but most haven’t
a clew what the hel to do about it.

As for the third world all wanting to become Park Ave
or London debs, I find the evidence of my own senses
doesn’t support that view. Most humans are content to
stay about ten miles from their birthplace. Bombing
and nasty local governments are usually what forces
any movements.

So here we are floating in an endless sea of energy,
with an entire planet broken into convenient chunks
near enough to reach and a few other made of hydro-
carbons almost in reach and we want to go down as
the lamest excuse for an intelligent species that can
be imagined because we can’t overcome the inertia of
doing things the same old way until it kills us off.

Maybe if we start giving IQ tests to people who want
to be leaders it would help. That’s one Snowden has
over and above any of the other candidates for POTUS.

Richard June 11, 2021 3:59 PM

@Clive Robinson

I do consider myself familiar enough with the 9/11 data you referenced. It makes a certain amount of sense to me, but I still have difficulties reconciling that with other research… I.E.:
Clouds and Climate Change: The Thick and Thin of It

Since the changes in low- and high-level clouds mostly cancelled each other out, the net global effect of the clouds did not differ very much in the warmer climate scenario from that in today’s climate. This scenario differs considerably from what many climate scientists had been assuming in the 1990s. It had been thought that brighter clouds would partly “save” us from significant global warming, by reflecting more energy into space. Instead, these results suggest that clouds are not necessarily the white knight that will rescue us from climate change. Therefore, our society should seriously consider reasonable steps to limit future emissions of greenhouse gases and soot aerosols as part of an overall strategy to reduce air pollution.

I suppose there’s probably an inflection point somewhere, where a certain limit of air-traffic turns the seasonal weather from cooler to warmer. I have absolutely no clue where that point lies though.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 4:00 PM

@ Richard

It makes a certain amount of sense to me, but I still have difficulties reconciling that with other research…

From my perspective, the best solution is to stop producing the green house gasses in the quantities we are. And if possible look at natural solutions to resolve the current excess as quickly as we can.

However there is a thorn in the issue not just of what “natural” may be but what other effects it might actually have. Part of the problem is people not differentiating between “Global Warming” and “Climate Change”. The latter is what will kill us, the former is just one of many ways our early demise might happen.

The next issue is one of time and tipping points. As the climate changes, species of flora and fauna migrate, and those that can not migrate in time or at all either die out or mutate. Thus at some point you can not go back to what you had before, you have crossed a tipping point, whether that is good or bad is something of a viewpoint, personally I’m siding with bad. The secondary issue is that there are very many species that are intetconnected and they all have different tipping points, which will not show up immediately that they have been crossed.

It’s why some people talk about “climate engineering” and as far as I’m aware the first example of this was “cloud seeding” to promote rain fall. Whilst it can drop rain where there are clouds, it does have a “Robbing Peter to pay Paul” effect which means it can be used as a denial device on others. Thus you have an extention to “water rights” which historically have been responsible for bitter and bloody conflict and genocide. Thus climate engineering can be weaponised to effect entire countries. At the very least robbing Peter gives Peter cause for complaint if not litigate because it is nolonger “An act of God” but man.

So Climate Engineering of which aircraft contrails could be considered part of, is both contentious in it’s primary goal and has unknown side effects both directly and indirectly.

But as others have indicated the industrialized nations appear addicted to cheap energy and certain types of “Keeping up with the Jones’s” life styles. Life styles that certainly can not be supported long term not even for a few percent of the worlds population. Part of this problem is the ethos of “ownership” over “stewardship” that of “personal good” over “societal good” which boils down to the ideas of the need in some to convey to others in a very visable way what they believe is their “status” in life. Even when it’s not those who consider themselves prejudiced against will see it that way, such is the human condition in some (consider it a variation of Dunning-Krugger effect).

We see this already with the political brinkmanship of “development” where some nations demand the right to pollute, because others have done so before and gained an advantage by it. Thus they want parrity of pollution on a historic past, even knowing now what was not back then the harm it does.

Personaly, I do not think we will resolve any issues politically and I’m not in favour of the various types of colapse. The notion of imposing a “one child” policy has significant consequences in that as life expectancy increases you have only one child supporting two parents and four grandparents, which is what they are seeing in China. And it’s not supportable either by individuals or the state. Some argue that it’s not possible to support even a steady state of the same number of births as deaths, due to not just increasing life expectancy but also education. That is the gain from extended education does not counter over a shoryened working life the loss in economically productive activity in the majority of people. Thus the only solution is to exyend the working life, but that does not work either as the nature of work has changed and manual, unskilled and semi skilled work is rapidly depreciating as technology improves, and the economists golden rule of “increased productivity” is mindlessly chased.

Thus we appear stuck with an insoluable problem of an increasing population, limited resources and polution that is killing us via it’s environmental and climate impact. Historically we know what is going to happen in the broad brush strokes history teaches, we’ve seen it in Europe for centuries, and it’s a stark choice between endless wars or expansionism into unpopulated resource rich environments… But It only works when there is somewhere to move to and some way of getting there, whilst you still have the excess capacity to do it rather than go for the genocide by war crime route.

Which in the mean time leaves us with the “what to do here” issue, unfortunately politicians always want big dramatic and frankly not going to work or have worse downstream problems methods as they can be seen to be doing rather than actually doing. They have been encoraged in this sort of stupidity by the likes of the World Bank, because they see developed nations winning twice. That is a poor nation borrows from the World Bank to give the money to first world companies, the poor nation then has to pay the bank interest etc, so they end up getting poorer whilst the first world gets richer high fives all around in the first world…

But… there is a problem as the first world creates these problems in the third world those problems come back to bite the first world via climate change, giving rise to new diseases etc and the side effects of the induced climate change. That is we can not keep throwing our rubbish over the fence into our neighbours garden and not expect trouble one way or another. Thus we need to sort out our own mess and then help the neighbours so they don’t make the same mistake.

Which is the polar opposite of what American Exceptionalism is all about, and the earlier machinations of European nations we call Conquest and Empire…

Thus when you hear about “climate engineering” lift the curtain and see what the technology is, how it’s to be paid for and importantly what other environment and climate effects it will have directly or indirectly.

And as far as technology is concerned you can not beat entropy, you can not solve a heat polution problem by burning more energy…

CallMeLateForSupper June 11, 2021 4:00 PM

@Dirk Praet
“I thought phrenology and the like had been debunked as pseudo-science […]”

Exactly. LOL. Phrenology is what came to my mind too.

While it is laughable, it is also scary, because it is the very sort of product that governments and LEAs fall over each other to purchase – at eye-watering cost – and use in secret to harass/threaten/coerce/marginalize/prosecute.

tyr June 11, 2021 4:01 PM

@Clive

I have always advocated a survival based morality
which extends from the individual level all the
way up to the entirety of the human community.

I consider anything that does not fall within
that ethical basis as immoral and anti survival.

This cuts away a lot of the underbrush in thinking
about what I see in society. Obfuscation, framings,
and sidetrackings have served the venal, immoral,
and unethical well up til now. It isn’t too clear
what will occur once we are up against the knife
edge. The historical record of a single volcano
taking down entire civilizations with ease and a
gap in the records of centuries is something that
I think deserves some attention.

There are folks in the biological community who are
not happy about the idea of temperature raising to
the point it starts interfering with life processes.
It could very well turn out to be like the oxygen
generation extinction event. Some portion of the
gene swarm will get through the bottleneck but it
won’t be any of those who have tried to ignore the
magnitude of the real problems.

To sum it up, I survive so I can help you survive
and we survive to help the rest of the tribe survive.
Once you decide to limit the extent that applies you
become anti survival and morally expendable. You can
see how the attempts to get individuals to extend the
range of this behavior have been the major theme in
history. The idea of the rugged individual going it
alone is bullshit. Without the support network of the
others no human would make it past the first week of
their life. No urban human similarly will last a week
if the invisible infrastructure around them fails.

You don’t support the old from namby pamby love for
the granny, you do it because they are a source of the
wisdom and knowledge you might need when the shit hits
the fan. The dumbest folk on earth are those who think
they know enough to cover all the possibilities alone.

Look at Google, what possible good is it to search for
things you don’t know about. How can it work at all if
you don’t even know what to type into the search bar ?
Without discernment a million search hits will not
increase your understanding of anything. There’s a
reason to hang out with Bruce because the network of
wisdom helps cut through the noise levels of modern
data barrage.

You might even learn how to fix a toe…: ^ )

Alex June 11, 2021 4:01 PM

@ Clive Robinson, “Thus in the near future the energy that is the real driver behind the economy (remember my past comments about energy as currancy/wealth) will become to scarce thus expensive and thus the economy will fold back and society with it. ”

Lest not forget everything of vital essential in our society is heavily “hedged” thru the use of vehicles and metrics. Thus, as wealth can be hedged so does energy resources and other vitals, the hedge itself becomes a prime wealth generator. This has something to do with fractional reserve mint of our monies and such as itself is hedged thru our national I.O.U., another vital.

The system is complex to speak the least, and most of it exists in abstract.

“His point in this area is that there are four basic classes,
1, Those without assets or work income.
2, Wage slaves / surfs.
3, Salaried rent seekers.
4, Asset (land) wealthy investors.”

Thus, this was a superficial view at best.

MarkH June 11, 2021 4:09 PM

@Moderator:

The Comments Vandal seems to have reposted a bunch of old comments (not necessarily intact, or with the original author’s name), starting within the hour preceding this comment, with time stamps starting from 3:25 PM.

I regret that one offender costs you so much time.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 4:56 PM

@ tyr,

You might even learn how to fix a toe…: ^ )

Befor or after they have taken target practice at it 😉

As the old saying has it “What aint broke don’t need fixing, so learning not to break it comes before learning how to fix it”.

The problem as was once described as “Only rental cars do sixty in second gear” and is down to the difference between ownership and stewardship outlook on life by the driver. If your ethos in life is ownership, then you will drive a rental badly as you don’t own it, thus it’s somebody elses problem to fix when you break it. If your ethos in life is stewardship, you don’t drive a rental badly because you know if you do one way or another you are going to pay for any breakage you make.

It’s that ability to see beyond the immediate cost that is important, that is that dodging an upfront cost does not mean it does not have to be paid. It only moves the cost in time where it rapidly becomes more expensive, either to you, your descendants or society.

Either not having or not wanting to have the ability to see beyond the immediate cost is what gives some people the notion of “cut and run” and other “short term thinking” behaviours –which are so very bad for society in general– are exceptable.

Worse as I’ve pointed out in the past, is it encorages ever more wastefull behaviour and can give rise to “bubbles”. The trick is simple, when you get the power to initiate a project, you make it grandiose. All projects will succeed in their early stages with little knowledge or effort. Thus you cut and run at the end of that point and leave the project in other peoples hands (to sort out the mess you have created). If the project succeeds, you then claim it was through your vision and ground work, if the project fails it’s due to the incompetance of those that took over from you… this means you never have blaim to your name and your CV will shine… If you can also sell the grandiose reasoning more widely and get “buy in” from others you become a consultant or worse a guru and so an incredibly wasteful bubble forms… Thus you can work your way up well past your Peter Principle limit[1] where any Dunning-Kruger[2] problems you have would normaly have been apparent to others and thus stopped you don’t get recognised. It also enables you to avoid the Dilbert Principle[3] thus you continue to be a significant and increasing societal problem as the bubble expands.

[1] Peter Principle from the early 1970’s :- A person rises in a hierarchy to their point of incompetence.

[2] Dunning-Kruger effect from 1999 :- a cognitive bias in a person where either a relatively unskilled person suffers an illusory superiority, or where a relatively skilled person depreciates their own abilities in comparison to others.

[3] Dilbert Principle from 1995 :- Scott Adams cartoon character Dogbert observes “leadership is nature’s way of removing morons from the productive flow”[4].

[4] The Dilbert Principle is a rework of the old saw of “Those who can do, those who can’t lead”, which occasional has the humourous adjoiner of “those who can’t do or lead, teach badly”.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 4:57 PM

@ Dirk Praet, Nick P,

Do you remember some (long) time ago we had a brief chat about how to backdoor mobile phones and the like?

And we takked about keyboard drivers and spell checkers…

Well it appears others either had the same idea or read what we wrote,

http://samnewman.io/blog/2016/05/30/want-to-spell-check-read-the-fine-print/

@ goat

You’ve often thought US Bankers were the biggest crooks in the world…

Well it looks like those in London are, but best of all New Zealand is planning to enter the corruption game at the highest levels as well,

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/when-a-mafia-expert-tells-us-britain-is-the-most-corrupt-country-in-the-world-its-time-to-start-a7057686.html

I can not say I’m surprised London used to be the terrorist cross roads of the world in the 1980s and 90s, then 9/11 caused them to move on. Then the UK Gov had this wonderful idea to give the big accountanting firms their number one xmas wish, of what are now called Limited Liability Partnerships… which have been shifting more money in and out of slush and bribery funds than just about any other financial instruments.

Sceptical June 11, 2021 4:57 PM

@ All

Into the depths of C: Elaborating on De Facto Standards

Great piece of work that looks at all the ways implementations are handling the C standard in terms of things like memory, pointers, and arithmetic. They describe the issues and effects. They also build formal model that allows analysis of that. They test the models against GCC and such. This paper might be helpful for people trying to see C’s dark corners to learn to avoid or handle them. It’s also another good piece of the foundation for formally verifying C programs despite effects of undefined behavior and optimization.

ianf June 11, 2021 4:58 PM

[…] “The real problem is that the infrastructure folk want to hang onto the useless archaism called a power grid for the residential captive audience.”

All dandy, tyr, except it’s a two-way, n-dimensional street, and those infrastructure folks are us. The audience goes where the grid is, the grid appears where the audience is headed to. Much as we’d like to, we can’t all be living in off-the-grid solar- and wood stove-heated Winnebagos. And that’d be even less of an option during a nuclear winter.

Let us not forget that all advanced civilizations essentially begun as a quest to deliver potable water, and (though much later) build conduits for sewage disposal from human agglomerations: civilization equals aqueduct and sanitation networks. For those reasons alone, the cities—noisy, congested, dirty and plenty dangerous though they are—represent the pinnacle of human communal evolution, with cultural and survival advantages that far outstrip their disadvantages.

[…] “instead of stringing multiple copper lines to get [telephone networks] going [the third worlders] just put up a few towers.”

A very “simplicosophisticaté” description of conditions in the 3rd World, and, besides, you can not compare setting up packet telecoms (radio data towers) with high wattage-bearing power lines, which can but be done in the traditional hardware cable fashion. Even were it possible to set up huge solar energy farms in the outback, etc., to serve large local communities, they’d still require wired distribution networks, meaning your hated geo-loc-enslaving grid.
I’ve seen projections of landmasses needed for such solar farms, their footprint no more than stamps on a table-sized world map. On the other hand it is often claimed that the entire present solar cell industry makes but 5-15% of what would be required for the task. Clearly, then, we’re not ready for deployment of that wonderfully clean, inexhaustible, silent (and, in the deserts, badly needed shade-inducing!) energy source for the developing, much less the developed world.

[…] “we are floating in an endless sea of energy, with an entire planet broken into convenient chunks [… and …] we can’t overcome the inertia of doing things the same old way until it kills us off.”

Well…, yes. You just correctly diagnosed that collectively we can’t get past our own thoughts’ escape velocity, yet you expect us to break free of that comfy envelope and speed-evolve(?) never the less.

From a pure philosophical point of view, if we—the humans—prove unable to keep the Earth in ecological balance, and add to/ if not outright engineer/ our own destruction, then we’re obviously an evolutionary dead end, and deserve to become extinct. Then other species can fill the master of the enviro niche… and perhaps, in time, they too will evolve brains large enough to write such piffle as this here. And if they surpass us in the intellectual sense, perhaps they’ll even manage to decipher The Message of The Monolith® that the Jewish Cabal of Hollywood™ has placed on the Moon in order to confuse the bejesus out of future caretaker civilizations that might succeed us. It all dovetails quite nicely, no?

[Don’t forget to tune in to next week’s lecture on “Dust mites – are they for real or what,” free on iTunesU and elsewhere.]

tyr June 11, 2021 4:58 PM

@ianf

A few quibbles.

No one has demonstrated that nomads are inferior
to walling everyone up in cities. The entire set
of urban structures are a VR (ideas framed into
the available matter, usually badly but that’s an
art critique). There is no such thing as balance
or ecology in the world of living things that’s
an paradigmatic illusion projected onto a barely
understood mystery world by our own umwelt. The
language we use carries enormous baggage of old
and obselete ideas along which contort most of
our thoughts and not always for the best.

I think William Gibson had it right when he said
it’s an urban experiment run by a mad social
researcher with his thumb permanently on the fast
forward button. Don’t like what you see just wait
a week and you’ll like that even less.

@Clive

I knew there was a reason for the Perfidious Albion
nickname. To say that the history of London and its
far flung swindling has a few dark spots is to call
yourself an innocent. Fleecing widows and orpans is
a time honored profession.

Dirk Praet June 11, 2021 4:59 PM

@ Bruce

A tip for next Friday’s Squid post: The Gyrating Giant Mechanical Squid

@ Clive

You’ve often thought US Bankers were the biggest crooks in the world…

Ken Livingston was right all along. I hope Sadiq Khan takes a similar disposition toward the City’s banksters. Then when Jeremy becomes the new PM, he can issue an edict declaring them all gay and ban them to Dubai.

And we talked about keyboard drivers and spell checkers…

Yet another reason to stay clear of the cloud. Jeez …

Figureitout June 11, 2021 4:59 PM

Random Technical Question (highly doubt anyone knows lol)
–Has anyone flashed a TP link MR3420 router (not MR3220) w/ dd-wrt or open-wrt via webflash? F*ckers got a little something compiled in their .bin (which I didn’t look at b/c I can’t disassemble binaries) that’s authenticating or something. Tried the usual trick of renaming the file to the firmware that would reflash, cracks me up when that works. Wanted to try the “wireless adapter” feature that isn’t in proprietary firmwares b/c they suck (and my high gain antennas b/c I bought this cheap crap router exclusively b/c of external antenna connectors b/c I can’t solder them). Spent a couple hours on it and failed and kinda pissed now. Want to avoid jtag’ing in and the other weird method if possible b/c of time limits. Probably going to get into the router scene in the next few years a little more though.

Clive Robinson
–Figured I’d bug you a little (can you imagine if you were in my family or something like that? I’d bug the hell outta you, wouldn’t care if you’re moaning on a hospital bed :p).

Pet project question. I’m mulling taking out a channel changing feature b/c my algorithm/implementation is too weak or prone to fail…

Haven’t done any field testing yet, just on my bench. But basically I’m just using all channels right now (couldn’t get my handpicked channels to work only, will try again probably), starting both RX and TX at 0, going up to 125, and all over again. If TX fails, then I decrement by one (since I increment every activation), so TX will stay on that channel and not get the channels out of wack between RX and TX. I’m mulling also writing that failure to the TX node eeprom even though it’d be very exposed to erasing the evidence.

I also used “goto” since I want just a pure branch if equal/not equal or jsr or jump instruction in C, know that’s unsafe or whatever but it’s not that bad how I’m using it.

Unplugging RX, letting the TX fail for awhile not getting an ack from RX (cycling thru channels), then plugging back in, they didn’t re-sync to the right channel. This is what’s scaring me the most (I have a weird hunch that serial monitor stuff in Arduino is affecting this…that would be weird).

Any simple algorithms to keep 1 TX and 1 RX node synced reliably while changing channels continuously (incrementing by 1)? The algorithm used at my work to find the channel used is kinda smushed inbetween layers of the protocol and application code…

Always funny how things change from what you want initially to how things will shape up in the end lol. I’m thinking of just using multiple rounds of XTEA instead of AES for encryption since I don’t think that can be cracked in a timely manner (just want to use all 32 bytes in the packet and encrypt it well, now I’m only using 8 bytes), attacker has to be close and have the proper receiver, and get the right channel and addresses…there’d have to be a backdoor.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 5:00 PM

@ r,

It’s not just Jeff bezos, it’s Elon Musk and quite a few others including a large chunk of NASA, and that’s just inside the US.

The problem in doing it currentlt is Earth’s gravity well, it costs to much to build rockets as “one offs”. Ultimately the solution will be something along the lines of Arthur C. Clark’s “Space Elevator” –see his book “Fountain’s of Paradise”– but it’s a chicken and egg issue. We will not get cheap space transport, untill there is a good reason to have people go into space other than for science and tourism, the WASP politicians see little vote earning potential in it and most commercial organisations with share holders don’t see the profit in it. Both are very short term views, that neither Russia or China share currently.

The way forward is to bring the cost of launches down. Oddly perhaps the first step is not having humans and their life support systems on board, secondly to make rockets re-usable, then use hybrid flight systems. But it also means making payloads lighter and more efficient as well, which means we need new engineering solutions. But those payloads also need to ultimately be part of “self replicating” systems which means the “robots” need to be small and simple and near universal in nature.

Lot’s of people are working the individual parts of the problem but you rarely get to hear about it.

Elon Musk, knows full well that his re-usable rockets are a short term soloution to the problem, His ideas on re-working manufacturing/production will knock a hugh chunk of costs not just out of car production but rocket and aircraft production. Richard Branson likewise knows that his particular hybrid launch system is not realy of much use other than to get people a glimpse into space, but not orbit. But what both Elon and Richard know, is that their solutions are pragmatic stepping stones to make profit to re-invest into the next step. Because they realise what the politico’s don’t which is neither the chicken or the egg came first, they evolved from something else through lots of little changes.

But if you wan’t a glimpse of where the technology will go next have a look at the likes of Skylon. One view of it, is it beats the likes of Concord into the ground in terms of fast transport. It could get you from New Mexico to Australia in less than a couple of hours, and that is something people would be more than prepared to pay for. It would also be as near fully reusable as current large jet aircraft are. Making changes to it to get payloads up into very low orbit would not be difficult.

But there is a problem, which is we have “craped on the door step”, there is so much man made junk up in space, we first need to send in a clean up squad. The question thus arises of how to do it either economically or at a profit. The answer may well be micro sats with ion motors and electrical pendulums to lift the junk into higher orbits where it can be either recycled in some way or pushed into a safe place etc.

Thus we could have low earth orbit in use sufficiently profitably within the next five years that getting to the astroids or moon in a similar profitable way could be a decade or two away.

The one thing that is certain is that putting a man somewhere as a “political stunt” can be counter productive to doing it as a “profitable venture”. And whilst the former is glamorous and inspires youth, it’s the latter that makes it happen for all mankind.

But a thought for you, NASA is looking very seriously into the space elevator business for entirely pragmatic reasons. One asspect of which is high efficiency high density energy storage systems. Because whilst it takes a lot of energy to get up Earth’s gravity well the opposite is also true, you get a lot of that energy back coming down. Thus you could have the space elevator run almost like a pendulum. The sort of batteries you would want for this would also be rather usefull for running homes “off grid” in many parts of the world. It is thus a piece of “space science” that will get a lot of “spin off” before it even leaves the ground. Oh and you can bet “dollars to doughnuts” Elon Musk has got his eye very much on that one as well. But again that is a pragmatic step to more efficient energy transmission, electrified railway systems are more efficient than carrying fuel, engines, generators and motors, even though getting the power to them by third rail or overhead cantenary is quite inefficient due to IR losses. It would make the elevators into space a lot more efficient. But oddly enough people are already looking to use any such more efficient energy transmission for inclined railway systems for fast energy generation. Imagine a long incline with a very large mass train on it the potential energy is likewise large, converting that to kinetic energy is easy you take the break off, converting that to high voltage electrical energy is again well understood and developed technology. And trial energy storage systems based on this are already being built as prototypes. If the energy transmission can be made very efficient then such systems could be built into tall buildings to deal with energy surges etc. Oh and a similar mechanical battery is one that is being looked at for “hundred year storage” for security locks on nuclear waste storage facilities. So what other odd applications can you think of?

goat June 11, 2021 5:01 PM

@Clive Robinson

I have no doubts about the launch costs and what utopia could happen by reducing those (OK some doubts)

I don’t think agree with your views on the populational energy carrrying capacity of the Earth.

What’s to stop us from slowly growing upwards besides today’s popular politicos?

Wael June 11, 2021 5:01 PM

@not_convinced, @Clive Robinson,

What’s to stop us from slowly growing upwards besides today’s popular politicos?

Have you ever spent time in a high-rise, son? Ever stood in a balcony area? Ever put your life in another man’s hands, ask him to put his life in yours? We follow the laws of physics, son. We follow gravity or people die. It’s that simple. Are we clear?

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 5:02 PM

@ Figureitout,

Synchronizing channel changing with unreliable communications paths is a hard but solvable problem for just a pair of devices but very hard for multiple devices bordering on impossible in mesh systems of any size (think solving four colour map problem).

The way it is done in cellular systems is to turn the problem around and solve the map problem before deployment, then program control nodes with their own “colours” of non interfering channel plans and use multiple beacon signals. Then cross your fingers that you don’t have to upgrade things beyond that which you invisaged at the original planning time.

I had to design a solution for the French Cordless phone market a number of years ago (quite a while befor DECT). The problem they had was that the base to handset frequencies were quite different to the handset to base frequencies and Spanish fishermen used very high power CB systems that interfered with the base to handset frequencies. There was also a requirment that handsets start ringing within four seconds of a valid ring signal ariving at the base. You were not alowed to have a beacon system or data transmission outside of a valid call or intercom usage either as that would create interferance to other manufactures systems so was marked as a no-no in the regulations. The other problem was that the base also work as a PABX to upto four handsets.

Ignoring the PABX issue other than it defined the base as the master unit, have a think about how you would solve the issue of the base transmitting to the handsets when a Spanish fisherman is having an intermittent rag-chew with another fisherman. Obviously a handset on or very close to the base unit will work over the fisherman, but more distant handsets will not, and the base will have no idea if there is a Spanish fisherman interfering or if the handsets are out of range etc etc.

But there were a number of other issues due to hardware. Firstly only one transmitter and receiver in each unit, the synthesizers were very slow –20mS chan to chan, 75mS for the 80chan step from band bottom to band top– and only one byte of flash ROM available due to storage of ten dialing memories plus last number redial and five bytes for random base ID and handset numbers. Oh and handsets needed a two day battery life so the handset needed a ten to one duty cycle of 100mS on and 900mS of during “standby usage”.

So que “Mission Impossible” theme tune.

The technique I thought up whilst not perfect worked sufficiently well to be acceptable. I broke the eighty channels up into eight sub groups of ten channels spread in a weighted manner across the band based on nominal control channel in the sub group. When first powered up the base randomly selected the sub group and channel number. During the handset to base programing phase –done with intercom– the group and channel is transfered from the base to handset.

Unless problems occure the base and handset(s) will keep the sub group and control channel the same. If the base receives a ring or the intercom button is pressed it sends out a signal out it’s ID and either a rng0 or intN command for a second and a quater, if it does not receive an ackN from any of the handsets it swiches to the second channel in the group, and sends for one and a quater seconds then the third then back to the primary channel and so on whilst there is a valid ring/intercom. The handsets power up once a second and listen on the control channel, then alternately on either the second or third channel before going back to sleep, unless it receives what looks like valid data, in which case it dwells for half a second to verify.

If the base receives an ackN from any handset it stays on channel untill either a handset sends a ansN signal or the ring or intercom signal stops.

What all receivers do is keep an average of the last ten seconds of RSSI levels on the three channels which are used to decide if there is interefence or other users on the channels, they send this back to the base unit as part of the ackN signal. The base uses this along with it’s own RSSI readings to decide what channel to move to if a channel change is needed.

The problem is trying to decide when to signal a channel change to the handsets. It uses a certain number of “no acks” from all receivers to decide a channel change is due. But will only change when it gets a response from all handsets, or the user specificaly requests a channel change.

The channel it changes to is the one with the lowest RSSI score at the base, unless that channel has a high RSSI score from the handsets, in which case it’s the next lowest base RSSI score channel.

The base will work it’s way through only the sub group channel numbers automatically, unless it finds no base channels with low RSSI or the handsets have no low RSSI channels. It will change the sub group if the user requests a second channel change within approximately a day.

There are other rules but it worked reasonably well on the customers simulation tests, and they approved it.

The main take away is that you have to come up with a model of why things are going wrong, then come up with a rule set within the hardware capabilities then test it. It’s not a particularly fast process and it will probably never work 100% automaticaly if you cannot have guarenteed clear beacon channels as the cellular people do. Thus you have to have a manual overide system built in.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 5:02 PM

@ not_convinced,

I don’t think agree with your views on the populational energy carrrying capacity of the Earth.

OK but in what way do you not agree with them and why?

Oh and remember, people seldom do what is good for them longterm, you can see that from the top four causes of premature death. Politico’s get told how to remedy those top four yet the fail to take any action repeatedly, so you have to ask yourself why they don’t.

Probably the most good for themselves and others people could take is to use their legs more. That is “take the stairs”, “walk / cycle 40mins or more a day” and don’t take the car within a mile of where you go shopping.

Whilst it sounds easy, and mostly is, it’s not convenient, even when you show people they could save upto 20% of their take home pay, and increase their life expectancy by more than ten years, they still go for convenience 90% of the time.

Their choice, but unfortunately it’s not just their loss.

Albert June 11, 2021 5:02 PM

Palantir have received a $200M contract with US SOCOM to develop intelligence software.

Palantir vill provide licenses and support for All Source Information Fusion (ASIF) software.

Yes it’s “that” Palintir – it’s one of the involved companies in the HBGary/Anonymous mess – which together with a couple of others planned and offered illegal cyberattacks and calculated misinformation against WikiLeaks and its supporters.

http://www.c4isrnet.com/story/military-tech/isr/2016/06/01/palantir-socom-intelligence-software/85186972/

Spencer June 11, 2021 5:03 PM

@Clive Robinson

OK but in what way do you not agree with them and why?

A couple of pictures are probably worth almost 500 words 😉

I will concede that it’s possible we’ll have to mine space for the required resources. I haven’t finished working out the math yet. Of course, I think the political long-term thinking problem is our greatest obstacle, and collapse does seem to be the most likely result… Yet, our society has already endured this process many, many times.

@Wael

We follow gravity or people die.

OK, how about we build more downwards and save the surface for solar collection?

Dirk Praet June 11, 2021 5:04 PM

This might raise a wry smile

I’m afraid it’s only going to get worse. I have come to believe that a liberal democracy can only prevail in societies with a thriving middle class. Erosion or even downright desintegration of the middle class caused by unbridled capitalism and economic decline leads to oligarchic domination, populism and all kinds of extremist thinking both political and religious. And that’s exactly what we are seeing happening pretty much all over the place today.

On the upside, I have just improved my personal records push press and deadlift to 203 and 430 lbs. (92.5/195 kg.) respectively. Yay myself!

Wael June 11, 2021 5:04 PM

@r,

space is limitless?

Relatively speaking, yes. Limitless in the absolute? Inconclusive. Terraforming planets is an interesting topic, though! Venus, The moon, … Speaking of terraforming the moon, don’t look at the URL, close your eyes and listen to the soundtrack, can you guess what show this is?. It used to be one of my favorite shows: complete series. I even had toy “Eagles” and a couple of pajamas that looked like their uniforms 🙂

and conquering it is the only route for permanent expansion.

Naturally! “Conquering” isn’t the right word, though 😉

Spencer June 11, 2021 5:04 PM

@wael,

My much more significant other and I are now having the discussion you initiated as per ‘conquering’ and ‘permanent route of expansion’. She is on your side and I am trying to understand how it’s a bad word to use in this instance irrespective of any significant bias implied by [conquer/master/subjugate].

I posit that: It’s okay to fail @ conquering.

Care to elaborate?
Suggesions???
I am at an empasse here.

Figureitout June 11, 2021 5:05 PM

Clive Robinson
–I believe I can have 5 other “RX” devices that only talk to that TX, can see the code for that pretty much. I just don’t want to spend $$ on getting more right now. That’d be a partial solution. Bigger/better antenna, another partial solution. I want an authentication chip in there eventually for either the logs or authenticating the nodes, shouldn’t be too hard to do what I’m thinking but never used them before.

Can kinda follow your Dect story, huh ok.

Getting a signal strength value is pretty handy.

Alright back to work.

echo June 11, 2021 5:05 PM

@all
A Short Rant On: Idealism vs. Realism.

We all want our software to be open source and our hardware to be open hardware as well. We want our chips to be verifiable, secure, honest without backdoors and have the designs freely open.

We want too much of these idealism yet reality is far from what we wish. There are limitations to idealism and there should be a healthy check on expectations.

Neither Intel, AMD nor ARM would be giving away their secret sauce anytime soon and RISC-V specifications are simply just specifications with the implementors doing their own things (which means they can choose to close source or semi-open their designs). The wish of having such a verifiable and open hardware have not delivered itself despite many anticipations, roadmaps and conference talks.

The Big Boys that rule the semi-conductor industry may not be very forgiving to new players that are deem a risk to their secretive business models either (and who knows what they might react).

The bulk of the hardware (especially security hardware) are closed source with NDAs. We, as security engineers, have to figure how to implement our solutions in an environment such as this by combining the most suitable hardware and tactics to ensure some levels of honesty and trust (dynamic whitebox and dynamically generated obfuscated logic) and at the same time delivering tangible and humanly usable security solutions in a graduated manner without being blinded by idealistic dreams and designs.

If we are consistently bugged by idealism, we wouldn’t move even a single inch and without even the slightest progress, the wishes to increase security is nothing but a bunch of theories.

To put it simply, stop dreaming, start designing usable security solutions and manifest it.

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 5:05 PM

@ Dirk Praet,

On the upside, I have just improved my personal records…

Carefull at this rate, your shoulders and arms will have so much muscle, that lifting your arms to type at a keyboard will be difficult, and your keypresses dangerously close to punching holes in the PCB 😉

Therefore I recomend you invest in either a KSR or ASR terminal 🙂

Clive Robinson June 11, 2021 5:06 PM

@ r,

I can readily see extrovert’s heading for space and introverts going underwater/underground.

It’s not a question of introvert / extrovert at the end of the day.

It would appear that for various reasons a stable human population is not possible at anything above a subsistance level farm based society…

A physicaly infirm population can not survive independently in such a society. Thus like children they become dependent on the physicaly able approximately in the teen to middle age range.

Nor for that mater can the science based industry that makes the likes of medicine possible. So this would bring life expectancy down to early seventies at best, about half the age potentialy we might otherwise reach in the next hundred years.

Further we are effectivly “resource bound” in that we have effectivly recovered from the earths crust what we can without increasing levels of technology, but that will only give us a couple of decades or so.

So the answer at the end of the day is to get resources from else where, and the sooner we start the better.

For obvious reasons “green” energy is all derived from “solar” energy, the atmosphere vegitation etc effectivly disapates this energy thus makes it very much less than it could otherwise be. Out in space solar energy is much more coherent and as such easy to gather in usefull forms. Thus setting up base industry in space makes a lot more sense than trying to set it up on earth.

There is very little argument from those aquainted with the human need for resources on this score. It’s others who would rather continue riding a failing system down in flames that make most of the counter usually very short term argument.

As for visiting the stars, that is currently well well beyond our capabilities, even visiting the outer parts of the solar system is extreamly difficult, getting to stay at say pluto is currently beyond our capabilities and likely to remain so unless we put in the effort whilst we still have the spare resources to do so.

tyr June 11, 2021 5:06 PM

@Clive

When I was in the L-5 Society, the real plan was
to build the habitat module in the L5 Lagrange
point. Once it was proved to be long term viable
the only thing needed was an engine system and
we’re off to the near stars. We couldn’t get an
interest level in the politicians for even a
meagre funding. Building the starship is the easy
part, dragging the luddites out of the dark ages
is the hard part.
There seems to be some disconnect between the art
of long term planning and the short attention span
of ordinary folk.

But they shouldn’t worry even though the longterm
thinkers have all read The Marching Morons they
are not going to force luddites into outer space.

echo June 11, 2021 5:06 PM

@ Grauhut

The book was mostly a summary of ideas floating around in there. So-so on that. However, the gold in there for me was the optical interconnect section for components on PCB’s. I did read about optocouplers before. I even knew they were working on all optical interconnects back when I studied Lenslet’s Enlight. They mentioned it as a goal in one article on an already badass design. I now recognize it was an analog computer using optics instead of electrical circuits given primitives directly implemented mathematical functions.

The interesting thing is that they note advantages of using optical links in PCB. There is apparently less energy, less heat, and less EMI. The latter is especially interesting as it might be useful in EMSEC work along lines of TEMPEST shielding. It would be interesting to know if tiny optocouplers between key chips would reduce amount of emanations. Maybe Wael or Clive chime in here. I know that ASIC’s on modern nodes are already very, low power compared to whatever is on a PCB. Intercepting signals at the boundary then directly converting them into focused, directed light may be a way to reduce emissions. Throw in Silicon-on-Insulator if possible due to its natural advantages in this domain.

So, for optical PCB’s, interesting find. I didn’t know they exists. Any reader here seen a product with optical PCB’s outside one-off uses of octocouplers? I’m talking most of circuits connected optically.

Note: A quick Google found an IBM paper showing how to design and manufacture them. Very interesting stuff. Another is a company that seems to specialize in building them plus show the kind of equipment used.

ianf June 11, 2021 5:07 PM

@ tyr has “a few quibbles: No one has demonstrated that nomads are inferior to walling everyone up in cities.”

Are you talking of indigenous folks’ nomadic life styles, or of modern-day occasional/ temporary tech-nomads, pretty elitist and snobby types all? I read your anti-grid salvo more as poetry, than as a “tear down those grids, Mr. Legacy Infrastructure Owner” type of plea.

My knowledge of nomadism may be (=is) limited, but I have this for you: as soon as nomads get tired of this, they start to flock together, and there the grids (of various kinds) reappear. Most often that comes down to someone living in a VW van on long-term campings (the rich retirees in latest model Winnebagos etc). Modern nomadic lifestyle is just a transient condition on the road from temporary N to permanent Z. This is as true of by-definition short lived stays at the “Bohemian” Grove and annual high-tech hedonism festival Burning Man; as of the allegedly permanent off-the-grid Slab City, though that in reality closer to a rent-free human refuse heap in the desert.

Simply put, human tendency to flock together for companionship, mutual support and defense is among the oldest Sapiens instincts, or we wouldn’t be uncovering traces of all these lost cities. Even in a region where native nomadic lifestyle has survived to present day, there exists a sun-dried mud brick Manhattan, the 1400-to-500yo Shibam in the Yemeni desert.

The notion of a noble lone-wolf content with the solitude, subsiding on summer pickings and hoarded winter vegetables in a shack at the periphery of society, is a pipe-dream… the last known such being Ted Kaczynski who couldn’t wait to have his voice echo all over the world.

BTW. Re: “To say that the history of London and its far flung swindling has a few dark spots is to call oneself an innocent. Fleecing widows and orpans is a time honored profession.”

I share the sentiment exactly, even though I have no idea which expression of which previous Clive Robinson’s post about London (by you by default not linked to) this might’ve been about. Of course I do not expect Londoner Clive to fault/foul his own, if only historical(?), nest, but then there are limits to degrees of acceptable obfuscation, and beyond that there are other LIMITS. Besides, history teaches as that, warts et al, robber barons are often the accelerating agents of (if heavily lopsided) progress of sorts, be it at the cost of considerable regress elsewhere.

@ rrrrrrrr

I know what going off the grid stands for, but have read tyr’s post as a diatribe against the enslaving (captive, though hardly captivating ;-)) existence of power/ comms grids as such, not as a prospect of some virtue. Besides, there are other meanings of “the grid,” than the one you supplied.

“think of it as “security””

Security against what exactly? The only guaranteed such in off-the-gridess of a type that you envision, is near-assurance of dying of exposure to “the elements” all alone, and being ecologically recycled at the leisure of lower biological order fauna and flora. This takes quite a resolve… easier to give out the last breath within boundaries of some Neon Wilderness, as there will be designated others there to process the former you into oblivion.

[…] “keeping a couple slabs of aluminum around for inclusion in a salt water bath might help you and others someday.”

How big the slabs…? I should perhaps consult some preppers, if only the ones that I’ve seen on TV weren’t such an unappetizing deranged lot[*]. As for Alu… there should be plenty of abandoned vehicles around, with parts to scavenge, so learning to discern usable alloys etc might be the better advice. Because what says that when The Day comes, you’d still be near these hoarded slabs?

Maybe there is a philosophical yet practically minded book on the subject, feel free to recommend—but NO might-makes-right survivalist stuff—I’d rather die then (I have not looked for any such yet, don’t want to give Amazon etc ideas on which targeted IMPORTANT MESSAGES! I should be inundated with next).

[^*] One plumpy woman hoarded a large Tupperware container’s worth of condoms, because such would be hard to come by. Apart from rubber’s natural detoriation (she’d need a condom humidor to preserve them), I suppose she never watched that post-apocalyptical instructional video, much less pondered on the fact that, all things considered, children are a replenishable protein resource. You want to survive, you eat Baby now!

Winter June 11, 2021 5:08 PM

Why is it that every side affect of this vaccine is called “rare” when reported in the media? I was watching a press conference here in Australia the other day after a woman in NSW died due to blood clots from the vaccine and they announced 48 others were being treated for blood clots also, but they kept making it a point to say “rare” repeatedly. 48 is not “rare”…

Listen up everyone please give a min of your time; China says there’s a chip shortage as our ev vehicles sit waiting for chips; think about how China products are being able to get chips; China is wanting to take over; there company nio is producing millions of ev; this is how China plays the world!!! I ask you how can you help fight China influence and put America back on track; our government won’t do it they accept China and fold; what is special about the USA is is the people pull together!! This is the one single element that makes us unique; every race every gender pulling together!! The Bible says a house divide will be destroyed; I say we the people stand up today and be part of a revolution not just for one race as politics would want to stress!! We have to over look politics and shut it off; government has failed policies on both parties; this is about saving our country!! Invest in AMC one share or more if you can afford it!! We will overthrow the biggest hedge company overnight!! Media sucks and the truth is oppressed and to make divides; will you stand with me and buy AMC start an account webull; get a free share; you may ask how will this benefit patriot American; by winning big and taking the money we make on this short squeeze and invest in American companies and save one company at a time; this is what it means to be an ape!! I want a future for my children!! Will you stand and join the patriot ape movement!!! Save America by investing in her companies and forcing them to bring jobs back; robotic technology factories and produce high paying American opportunities; you see our import to export is failing China takes the imported money and invests in our companies to push China agenda and I say we have an opportunity to change the tides!!! Please invest and these ceo will listen; we do this by buying up one company at a time; it’s AMC and they have growth with 5 g network they can do vr movies and several other opportunities!! Stand with us become a patriot Ape!!!

JonKnowsNothing June 11, 2021 5:09 PM

@Clive @All

fyi:

1. My German is Not Good.
2. In fact it is Nothing.

1. Mein Deutsch ist nicht gut.
2. Tatsächlich ist es Nichts.

(courtesy of the PointNShoot Translator because of one)

However, my knowledge of German Dressage concepts is good but I much prefer French Technique.

MarkH June 11, 2021 5:10 PM

People losing their hearing. Bells palsy, or generally just getting sick AF. Fu+ck that. I had covid in January. I lost my sense of taste and smell for about 3 weeks. My fiance got it and my 2 daughters. The girls didn’t show a single fuc+king symptom. We were all just fine. I actually got a sinus infection from my spring allergies this April that was 10× worse than covid and that is a fact.

The effects on women’s cycles is not a concern because it’s happening to women.

And covid became a big deal because it was primarily found to adversely impact elderly men. Of all the people I know who’ve had covid, the men are always the most symptomatic, and are the ones who end up in intensive care.

Medicine is inherently biased toward male biology and there have been many professionals who have recognized this and drawn attention to it in the past.

andy June 11, 2021 5:14 PM

First they deny it, then they downplay it, then they search for a solution.

Surely this isn’t the worst or most common of the rare adverse reactions, what are they doing about those?

What’s even going to be the outcome to this? Patient reciprocation? Pull the vax’s from the market? Recommend a certain group not get them? Or… nothing but “We’re keeping a close eye on the situation and monitoring the results/data.”

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing myself. The CDC and Fauci have spent the last week ranting about how you need to vaccinate your teens, so I don’t see how they’ll raise the vaccine age.

They’ll probably just end up saying “We’re keeping a close eye on the situation and monitoring the results/data.” Seems like a pretty pointless meeting, TBH.

Winter June 11, 2021 5:17 PM

I’m a total amogus the sussy fan much like everyone else. I like the newer games, but I don’t mind playing the classics. I don’t think I’ve ever played glitchy or hacked games before, though I don’t think I want to play any after the experience I had…

It started on a nice summer afternoon. I was playing amogus Unleashed (I liked how you get to explore the towns in it) until I noticed, out of my peripheral vision, that the mailman had arrived and put something in my mailbox as usual and left. I paused my game to go see what I got in the mail. The only thing in the Mailbox was a CD case for computers and a note. I took it inside.

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I looked at the note first and realized it was from my dear friend Kyle (let’s just call him that), whom I hadn’t heard from in 2 weeks. I know that because I recognized his handwriting, though what was weird is how it looked; it looked badly written and scratchy and somewhat difficult to read, as if Kyle was having a hard time writing it down and did it in a hurry.

This is what he wrote:

Tom,

I can’t take it anymore, I had to get rid of this thing somehow before it was too late, and I was hoping you’d do it for me. I can’t do it, he’s after me, and if you don’t destroy this CD, he’ll come after you too, he’s too fast for me….

Please Tom, destroy this god-forsaken disc before he comes after you too, it’s too late for me.

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Destroy the disc, and you’ll destroy him, but do it quick otherwise he’ll catch you. Don’t even play the game, it’s what he wants, just destroy it.

Please…

Kyle

Well, that was certainly weird. Even though Kyle is my best friend and I haven’t seen him in 2 weeks, I didn’t do what he asked me. I didn’t think that a simple gaming disc would do anything bad to him, after all it’s just a game right? Boy, was I wrong about that…

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Anyway, I looked at the disc and it looks like any ordinary computer CD-R disc, except it had black marker on it written “amogus.EXE”, and it was much unlike Kyle’s handwriting, meaning that he must’ve gotten it from someone else, like a pawn shop or eBay. When I saw “amogus” on the writing of the CD, I was actually excited and wanted to play it, since I’m a a BIG amogus fan.

I went up to my room and turned on my computer and put the disc in and installed the game. When the title screen popped up I noticed that it was the first amogus game, I was like “Awesome!” Because like I said earlier I liked the classics. The first thing I noticed that was out of place was when I pressed start, there’s was a split second when I saw the title image turned into something much different, something that I now consider horrifying, before cutting to black.

I remember what the image looked like in that split second before the game cut to black; The sky had darkened, the title emblem was rusted and ruined, the SEGA 1991 was now instead SEGA 666, and the water had turned red, like blood, except it looked hyper-realistic.

But the freakiest thing that was in that split second frame was amogus, his eyes were pitch black and bleeding with two glowing red dots staring RIGHT AT ME, and his smile had stretched wider up to the edge of his face. I was rather disturbed about that image when I saw it, though I figured that it was just a glitch and forgot about it. After it cut to black it stayed like that for about 10 seconds or so. And then another weird thing happened, the save file select from amogus the sussy 3 popped up, and I was like “WTF? What’s this doing in the first amogus game?”, anyway, then I notice something off, the background was the dark cloudy sky of the Bad Stardust Speedway level from amogus CD, and there were only three save files. The music was that creepy Caverns of Winter music from Earthbound, only it was extended and seemed to have been in reverse. And the image for the save file where you see a preview of the level you’re on is just red static for all three files.

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What freaked me out more was the character select, it showed only Tails, Knuckles and to my surprise, Dr. Robotnik! Now I was sure that something was up, I mean, how can you play as Robotnik in a classic amogus game, for crying out loud?

That’s when I realized that this wasn’t a glitchy game, it was a hacked game.

Yeah it definitely looked hacked, it was really creepy, but as a smart gamer, I wasn’t scared (or at least I tried not to be), I told myself that it was just a hacked game and there’s nothing wrong with that. Anyways, shaking off the creeped out feeling I picked File 1 and chose Tails and when I selected and got started. The game froze for about 5 seconds and I heard a creepy pixelated laugh that sounded an awful lot like that Kefka guy from Final Fantasy before cutting to black.

The screen stayed black for about 10 seconds or more, then it showed the typical level title thing, except the simplistic shapes were different shades of red and the text showed only “HILL, ACT 1”. The screen faded in and the level title vanished revealing Tails in the Green Hill Zone from amogus 1, the music was different though, it sounded like a peaceful melody in reverse. Anyway I started playing and had Tails start running like you would in any of the classic amogus games, what was odd was that as Tails was running along the level there was nothing but flat ground and a few trees for 5 minutes, that was when the peaceful music started to lower down into slow deep tones very slowly as I kept going.

I suddenly saw something and I stopped to see what it was; it was one of the small animals lying dead on the ground bleeding (that was when the music started to slow down), Tails had a shocked and saddened look on his face that I never saw him have before, so I had him move along, and he kept that worried look on his face. As he kept moving I saw more dead animals as Tails moved past them looking more and more worried as the music lowers and he moves past more dead animals, I was shocked to see how they all died, they looked like somebody killed them in rather gruesome ways; a squirrel was hanged on a tree with what appeared to be his entrails hanging out, a bunny had all four of his limbs torn off and a duck had his eyes gouged out and his throat slit. I felt sick to my stomach when I saw this massacre and apparently so did Tails. After a few more seconds there were no more animals and the music seemed to have stopped, I still kept Tails to continue.

After a minute passed after the music stopped, Tails was running up a hill and then he stopped, it wasn’t until I saw why; amogus was there on the other side of the screen with his back against Tails with his eyes closed. Tails looked happy to see amogus but then his smile faltered, obviously noticing that amogus wasn’t responding to him, if not acting as if he was totally oblivious of Tails’ presence. Tails walked slowly toward amogus, and I noticed that I wasn’t even moving my keyboard to make him move, so this had to have been a cut scene.

Suddenly I began to have a growing feel of dread as Tails walked closer to amogus to get his attention, I felt that Tails was in danger and something bad was going to happen. I heard faint static growing louder as Tails was but inches away from amogus and stopped and stuck his hand out to touch him. That foreboding feeling in my gut was growing stronger and I felt the urge to tell Tails to get away from amogus as the static grew louder.

Suddenly in a split second I saw amogus’s eyes open and they were black with those red glowing dots, just like that title image, thought there wasn’t a smile. When that happened the screen turned black and the static sound was off.

It stayed black for about 7 seconds and then white text appeared forming a message, saying, “Hello. Do you want to play with me?”

At this point I was creeped out, I didn’t want to continue with the game, but my curiosity got the better of me when I was taken to a different level with the level title now saying “HIDE AND SEEK.”

This time I was in the Angel Island level from amogus 3 and it looked like everything was on fire.

Tails looked as though he was scared out of his wits this time. He actually looked at me and made frantic gestures to me as if he wanted to get out of the area he was in as fast as possible. I was starting to get freaked out by this…I mean Tails was actually breaking the fourth wall, trying to tell me to get him out of there.

So I pressed down on the arrow key as hard as I could and made him run as fast as he could, a pixelated version of that creepy theme when you meet Shadow at the ARK as Robotnik from SA2 was playing as I made Tails trek through the desolate forest, trying to help him escape from whatever he was trying to run from.

Suddenly I heard that creepy laugh again… that awful, Kefka laugh… right after 10 seconds have passed as I helped Tails run through the forest, and then I started seeing flashes of amogus popping everywhere on the screen, again with those black and red eyes.

The music changed to that suspenseful drowning jingle as I see amogus behind Tails slowly gaining up on him FLYING; amogus wasn’t running, he was actually FLYING! The flying pose his sprite was making looked very similar to Metal amogus’s flying pose in amogus CD, except it was just amogus and he had the black and red eyes again, only

This time he had the most deranged looking grin on his face, he looked as though he was enjoying the torment he was giving the poor little fox as he gained up on him.

Suddenly when Tails tripped (another cutscene), the music stopped and amogus vanished. Tails laid there and started crying for 15 seconds. The scene was rather upsetting to watch and I kind of teared up myself. But then amogus appeared right in front of Tails and Tails looked up in horror.

Blood started to come down those blackened eyes of amogus’s as a grin slowly grew from his face as he looked down at the horrified fox, I could do nothing but watch.

Just in a split second amogus lunged at Tails right before the screen went black, there was a loud screeching noise that only lasted 5 seconds. The text returned only this time it said “You’re too slow, want to try again?” and then that god-awful laugh came with it.

I was so shocked by what had happened…did amogus murder Tails? No, he couldn’t have… He and Tails are supposed to be best friends, right? Why did amogus do that to him?

I shook the shock off as I was brought back to the character select, the save file that had Tails was different; Tails was no longer in the box itself but in the TV screen itself, which was flickering with that red static, Tails’ expression scared me, his eyes were black and bleeding, his orange fur had gone black and he had an expression of anguish on his face, Trying to ignore it I picked Knuckles next.

The laugh came again and the screen cut to black again and stayed there for another 10 seconds, this time the level said “YOU CAN’T RUN”.

I was really freaked out by now, I couldn’t really tell if this was a glitch, or a hack, or some kind of sick twisted joke… or anything really. But despite my fear of what happened next, I kept playing.

The next level looked much different, it had the ground of the Scrap Brain zone, but the sky background looked like the main menu; it had the dark reddish cloudy sky. But it was the music that creeped me out the most: It sounded like Giygas’ theme right after you beat Pokey in Earthbound. I also noticed that Knuckles looked afraid just like Tails did, though not as much, more rather he looked a little unnerved. He broke the fourth wall just like Tails and looked as if he wasn’t sure about going on, but I made him move anyway.

He ran down the straight pathway in this dark level, and as he did the screen started to flicker red static a couple times and then that maddening laugh came again.

Then after a few seconds of running I notice several bloodstains on the metallic ground, I felt a growing sense of fear again thinking something horrible is going to happen to Knuckles. He looked nauseated walking down this blood-stained road, but I still kept him going.

Suddenly as Knuckles ran, amogus appeared right in front of him with those black and red eyes and then red static appeared again, when the static vanished showing nothing but black screen with text saying “FOuNd YOu!”, I was now scared, amogus found Knuckles already?! What was going on?!

Anyway red static came again and then I was back to the level, Knuckles looked like he was panicking, and amogus was nowhere to be found. And this time that high-pitched squealing from the Silent Hill 1’s final boss was playing.

Was this some kind of boss battle with amogus? I hoped to God it wasn’t, honestly.

Suddenly amogus appeared right behind Knuckles in what appeared to be pixelated black smoke, I made Knuckles turn and then punch amogus, but amogus vanished in black pixelated smoke before I could even land a hit, that terrible laugh went off again. Then amogus appeared behind Knuckles again and then I made him punch again, and amogus vanished again laughing. Knuckles was panicking even more, and even I felt like I was going crazy, amogus was practically playing with us, he was playing a sick twisted little mind game with me and Knuckles…

Another cut scene played as Knuckled fell to his knees and clutched his head sobbing, I felt his agony, amogus was actually driving us BOTH crazy.

And then in a split second amogus lunged at Knuckles and the screen went black with another distorted screeching noise that lasted for at least 3 seconds.

Another text message appeared, “So many souls to play with, so little time… would you agree?”

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What the hell… Just what is going on? I started to think amogus was actually trying to talk to me through the game… But I was too scared to think that.

I was brought back to the main menu and this time the second file box had Knuckles in the TV screen, his red fur had darkened to a reddish grey, his dreadlocks were dripping with blood and his eyes were black and bleeding too, and he had a look of sadness on his face. I began to think that those are the actual characters trapped in those TV screens on the save files, but I couldn’t believe it… I didn’t want to believe it…

So I shut off the game and took a break. I took a nap, wish I hadn’t, ’cause I then began to have the most disturbing nightmare, I was in pitch black darkness, though I was under the light given off by a lamp that hung high above my head. I could hear the cries of Knuckles and Tails nearby. They were saying stuff like, “Help us…” and “Why did you give us to him?” and “Run away, before he gets you too…”

Their cries died out as I then heard amogus laugh, his laugh… it sounded a lot like the distorted Kefka laugh.

“You’re a lot fun to play with kid, just like your friend Kyle, though he didn’t last long…”

I was scared and looking around for the source of the voice…

“Won’t be long now until you join him and all my other friends…”

I saw him walking toward me, flickering in and out in several directions…

“You can’t run, kid. You’re in my world now. Just like the others…”

When he grabbed me and I saw his bleeding black and red-eyed, grinning face, I woke up with a fright.

After a couple of hours I decided to continue playing the game. I don’t know why, but I had to know, I had to figure out why this was happening… So I turned on the computer, turned on the game and selected Robotnik next.

I still thought that was wacky, playing as Robotnik, but anyway the level title appeared again and this time it said “…”, which I found really freaky.

This time I was in some kind of hallway, didn’t really look like it was from any of the classic amogus games, though it has the pixelated style; the floor was shiny and checkered, the walls were a dark grayish purple with animated candlelight’s and a few dark bloodstains here and there, and there was a dark red curtain hanging above on the top part of the screen. Every 12 seconds or so that red curtain sways very slowly, but whenever you’re playing the game you can barely see it move. The music was oddly pleasant, a piano playing a rather sad yet peaceful song, but I knew better, this was the song that played in Hill act 1, only it wasn’t in reverse.

Robotnik didn’t look entirely nervous like Tails and Knuckles did, but he did have a suspicious look on his face as if he was just a bit paranoid. He did a little animation when I just left him standing, he turns his head to the left and then to the right at least twice and then shrugs at me, as if he has no idea where he was or what was going on. Even though I was scared outta my mind about what was going to happen, I had Robotnik continue onward. He did his usual running animation (You know, when you’ve beaten him at the end of a classic amogus game and you chase him) as we continued going through the hallway.

Then I stop at a long flight of stairs leading downward, now I was nervous, even Robotnik seemed unsure of himself, though I pressed onward.

As I led Robotnik down the stairs, I noticed that the walls have gotten darker and more reddish; the red torches are now an eerie blue. Then we landed onto another hallway, this one was longer than the last one (or at least it felt like it) and then we headed down another flight of stairs down, this one was much longer, took at least 1 full minute.

And then I heard that horrid Kefka laugh again and then the music slowly faded until it was quiet, as it did the walls turned more dark red and the torches were a black flame now.

When Robotnik landed onto the 3rd hallway, I noticed he now looked really creeped out, though he tried to hide it, I couldn’t blame him, I was scared too.

Suddenly, amogus popped right in front of Robotnik the same way he did Knuckles and then red static. The red static lasted for about 15 second and then it showed me a most unpleasant image…

The image showed a hyper-realistic of amogus standing in the darkness where you can only see his face while his head and torso faded into black, and when I say hyper-realistic, I mean like he looked so real you could actually see the lines in his blue fur, as if you could actually feel the fur if you touched the screen.

His face… oh god, he had the most horrifying smile I had ever seen.

And that’s saying something considering I saw that image at the start of the game.

His eyes are wide and black and once again crying blood (Which also looked hyper-realistic) and there were two small glowing red dots in those black eyes staring RIGHT AT ME, as if staring into my mind. His grin was wide and demonic, it literally stretched to the sides of his face like a Cheshire Cat except amogus had fangs, VERY SHARP fangs, much like the Werehog’s teeth except more vicious-looking, somewhat yellowish and from the look of it, he had stains of blood and small bits of flesh on his lips and fangs as if he ate some animal.

I stared at that gruesome image for a good 30 seconds, never taking my eyes off it, I felt as if he was actually looking at me, smiling at me…that face, it just took 10 seconds for it to etch itself into my brain for good.

Then the screen flickered with red static again 3 times, and on the 3rd time I heard the Kefka laugh, except this time it sounded distorted, demonic even…

It went back to the image again except this time there was the text again though it was messed up, but it was pretty much one of the most horrifying things I looked at since I had this game…

“I AM GOD.”

It was when I read that message while looking at amogus when it hit me, I realized right there and then.

This amogus was a monster, a pure evil, sadistic, all-powerful, nightmarish, demented monster… and all of his victims, including Tails, Knuckles, Robotnik and possibly Kyle, are just his little toys, and the game is the very gateway into his chaotic, nightmarish world and the very Hell his victims are trapped in.

Suddenly in an actual split second I screamed as amogus lunged at the screen screeching loudly with his mouth wide open to an unnatural length revealing nothing but a literally spiraling abyss of pure darkness before the red static came again, this time much louder and distorted, so loud that it hurt my ears, I yelled and grabbed my ears as the red static screeched for a good 7 seconds.

Then it stopped and showed nothing but black screen.

As I sat there staring at the black screen, one last text came up.

“Ready for Round 2, Tom?”

The Kefka laugh, now sounding more clear as if amogus was right behind me, played again 3 times as I looked at that text in shock and confusion.

Then I got booted back to the main menu and this time the third save file had a TV image of Robotnik in the same, tormented state as Tails and Knuckles; Robotnik’s skin turned a dull grey, his mustache drooped and had blackened, his glasses broke and blood is coming from them and he had a mere dead like expression on his face.

I looked at Tails, Knuckles and Robotnik and I cried a bit, I pitied them for the agony they’re going through, they were forever trapped within the game, forever tormented by that horrid sussy, and always will be.

Then the computer shut itself off, I couldn’t turn it back on no matter what I did.

I sat there for maybe 25 seconds, horrified by what had just happened…

amogus is the very embodiment of evil, he tortures people who play his game in more ways than one and then when he gets bored he drags you into the game, literally drags you to Hell, where he can play with you always, as his toy….

I can’t get the game outta my computer. I think it’s stuck in there, but at least I managed to turn it back on now.

After I sat there for 25 seconds I heard a voice right behind me, like a whisper…

“Try to keep this interesting for me, Tom.”

I turned around to see where the voice came from, and what I saw made me scream…

Sitting on my bed… staring right at me…

… was a amogus plushie, smiling with bloodstains under its eyes.

Nutter June 11, 2021 5:19 PM

So this just happened an hour ago and I am still shaking. I’m a staff in public accounting and was in the middle of a 3-hour training on Zoom. Usually when we have these types of calls I just keep the video running in the background and I walk around the room doing things to pass the time and distract myself from the monotone presenters. Well today I forgot that I left the camera on (I usually always have it off but earlier today I had a call with the partner to discuss my upcoming promotion, so I had to have it on). I had no clue I had left the camera on and in the middle of walking around and muttering to myself as I was zoning out, I flipped it out and started to rub one out. I did so with complete confidence, openly and ferociously, stroking faster and faster until I heard the presenter stop and kindly asked me to turn my camera off. Mortified, I lifted my pants up and rushed over to turn the camera off. Soon after the training was over I had a call with HR and they let me know that I was being terminated. I hated the job anyway so not so bummed about that, but I’m not sure what to say in interviews now if I’m asked why I left this job. Any advice?

Wonka? June 11, 2021 5:19 PM

因在 Zoom 通話中自慰而被解僱
國家安全局
所以這只是一個小時前發生的,我還在發抖。我是一名公共會計工作人員,正在接受 3 小時的 Zoom 培訓。通常當我們有這些類型的電話時,我只是讓視頻在後台運行,我在房間裡走來走去,做一些事情來打發時間,分散自己對單調主持人的注意力。好吧,今天我忘記了我沒有打開相機(我通常總是關閉它,但今天早些時候我和合作夥伴打電話討論我即將進行的促銷活動,所以我不得不打開它)。我不知道我把相機開著,走來走去,一邊走一邊自言自語,一邊走一邊自言自語,我把它翻出來,開始擦一個。我完全自信地這樣做,公開而兇猛,越來越快地撫摸著,直到我聽到主持人停下來並親切地讓我關掉相機。羞愧的我提起褲子,衝過去關掉相機。培訓結束後不久,我打電話給 HR,他們告訴我我被解雇了。無論如何,我討厭這份工作,所以對此並沒有那麼沮喪,但如果有人問我為什麼離開這份工作,我現在不知道在面試中該說什麼。有什麼建議嗎?

Critical June 11, 2021 5:20 PM

Yes! ..Absolutely. I hate to use the euphemism of ‘false flag’, but i have believed from day one- This was a Govt Operation.

Similar to what they did in Elohim City.

One of the biggest giveaways was- The request for Bitcoin. There are a tonne of privacy coins. Coins that would be untraceable such as monero piratechain zcash or dash and probably a dozen others I’ve never heard of.

Second. The pipeline was still fully operational. It was just the billing process that had been hijacked.

This could have been a white hat stress test that went wrong. Or something similar to the 7/7 bombings in London.

There are multiple agendas. From cyber security to supply chain shutdowns. To hiding inflation or attacking bitcoin. To oil price manipulation. (Remember oil was at negative 38 dollars- cuz all our reserves are overflowing) ..We should have had no problem dealing with this “shutdown”.

Albert June 11, 2021 5:22 PM

MSM is reporting the hackers did use a wallet and the FBI obtained the key to access the funds.

I don’t necessarily trust MSM but this contradicts the posted article.

However, MSM does report the FBI used publicly available information to locate the funds, which is in agreement with the posted article and supports the notion, “are we to believe the “hackers” were really that stupid?”

Here’s my take, it is reported a total of about $4MM was paid out; $2MM and change recovered….. ARE YOU F’N KIDDING ME? A company operating at the scale of Colonial Pipeline passes $10MM every day by the time I’m finished with my morning coffee. TPTB mean to tell us that half the east coast’s fuel supply was shut down over a $4MM ransom transaction? Biden’s governement just printed fuc-king trillions of dollars in covid relief. $4MM is a joke.

This entire thing is truly unbelievable.

Seriously, it’s like Dr. Evil asking for $1MM dollars.

Doesn’t. Make. Sense.

David Moore June 11, 2021 5:23 PM

I heard it was only the retail billing system that was ransomwared, not the pipeline operation. Somewhere I heard custodial account and northern California. If you were a hacker and had a bunch of hot bitcoin, what would you do? I’ll tell you, you arrange a cash for weed and bitcoin for weed deal. Find a cash buyer that wants weed, and a N Cali grower that wants bitcoin for weed. Maybe even make a profit. And the worst part? The grower is out the weed and the bitcoin, and probably got prosecuted.

Sweet Dreams June 11, 2021 5:24 PM

It was a saturday afternoon, and I was exhausted after an intense 17-part masturabation session to dream minecraft manhunt, when i suddenly had the urge to go outside. I was scared. It’s been so long since i’ve left the warmth of my parents basement with my dream body pillows. I didnt know what to expect. Clutching my dream figurine in front of my chest, i pried open the door to the outside world. The gleaming sun blared through the door, bequeathing a brilliant warmth on my cum-covered boxers. I quaverly took a step outside. My body flintched from the strange feel of the dirt under my feet. And then i saw it. The lustrous field of grass, covered in a light sprinkle of water from the noon rain shower. And then i realized. Dream… grass… the trees… it was all coming together. Grass is green, just like Dream. Dream is everpresent, in the grass, the flowers, He was there. I immediately new what to do next. I flinged off my clothes faster than the speed at which i would click on a new dream rule 34 post. My dick was already throbbing as i leaped onto the field of grass, dorito dust stained shirt getting carried away by the wind. I dug a small hole in the ground, and passionately thrust my 7-inch erect cock into it. I knew, this was Dream. His spirit was in this grass, and he felt my dick in his boy pussy as i fu-cked that grass. I lost track how long i was there. Hours went by, day turned to night, but it didnt matter. I was finally together, with Dream. Nothing could separate us. I took a long stem of a flower, and forced it in my asshole. I imagined it being Dream’s hot penis being lustfully forced into me in bed. I stayed there on my front yard for god knows how long. Until my butt was sore, balls drier than the Saharan desert after a long drought. The lawn looked like there was a layer of fresh snow on a Christmas morning. Trudging indoors, i had a enormous smile stretching across my face. I couldn’t wait until tomorrow, when i may go outside again and be with Dream.

tldr: i had the sex with dream

security June 11, 2021 5:25 PM

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Winter June 11, 2021 5:27 PM

I have an unhealthy habit of imagining my dick as a 6 speed manual transmission, and shifting gears with it.

I do it every time I have a rock hard boner especially when I’m in no mood to jerk off.

Last week, I was at my parents house for dinner. So, after I was done with my dinner, I was horny so decided to head back to my old room and have a little sausage massage session.

I put on some ebony porn, and started to slowly play with myself. Halfway through, I lost interest, but I had a rock solid boner, so I decided to shift gears with it. So, I put on some manual transmission car racing videos on my TV, and shifted gears with my dick whenever the guys in the video shifted the gears. I was trying to match the timing, and it was fun.

The fun lasted for 10 minutes, until my dad barged into my room to ask me if I would fancy some ice cream. The puzzled look on his face said everything.

tl;dr :- My dad caught me shifting gears with my dick to car racing videos.

Roger Stevens June 11, 2021 5:28 PM

According to my humble knowledge there is not any philosophical inquiry. L. Ron Hubbard was sci-fi writer and penfriend of George Orwell. He decided to create cult. The ideas of scientology are distrubuted based on position in cults hierarchy meaning that first you may not even realize you are contacted by scientologist but rather by some organisations doing some personality, psycholigical or inteligence testing. The higher circle “knowledge” is mostly about ufo conspiracy and stories of galactic civilisation. Overall scientology tries to make impresion of being scientific, using pseudoscientific expresions concerning human psyche on both mental and somatic level and offers some methods for supposed selfbetterment. They use machine called dianetics to analyze people. It measures something from palms of your hand. They claim people are degraded because of some substances or objects called “thetans” stuck in their bodies and they claim to know methods how to reduce them. So basicaly they use this pseudotherapeutic narative to control and foster its members through psychological torture. As I said, I dont know about any “phylosophical foundations” that would be laid by Hubbard consciously. But surely you could make analysis concerning the phenomenon of Scientology. Very close to such a theme could be Michel Foucaults analysis. Michel Foucault is philosopher and historian (sort of) who analyzes mainly power and its relation to creation of subject. He made works concerning history of madness and psychiatry and well as penalty system. In those works he also touches on religion. He came with concept of “pastoral power” which he described as power originaly execrcised by catohlic church over people in its dominion. Pastor is agent of pastoral power, pastoral power is specific in that it works individualy with people, knows those individuals and tries to move them to salvation (no matter how you define salvation, or to some simmilar goal). Foucault claims that after weakining of church, state and under institution inherited this mode of power. Yet surely state also exercise other modes of power some of which Foucault writes. Basicaly if you would like to know about some tendencies that could describe the rise of scientology you can read what Foucault has to say about pastoral power as well as mental institutions etc. Sure there are many other sources to look into and things to consider… Also there was cool episode of south park on scientology. I dont realy know much about it and a lot of what I know was covered there. The other things just repeated same things… I did not bother do more excesive rasearch to it.

Fake June 11, 2021 5:29 PM

Religious explanations of suffering and the remedy for it (very similar across cultures and many religions, namely personal peace, fulfillment and meaning over superficial happiness, contentment over material wealth, relationships over things, etc) have been a great deal more effective and liberating than the current trend of externalizing fault and hyperfocusing on societal criticism. To claim that religion’s approach is to avoid doing anything about the suffering is to be ignorant of religion; from where does a great majority of charity come, and from which principles?

We live in an incredibly plentiful, comfortable and safe time period when viewed historically and people seem about as collectively miserable as ever despite the lack of plagues, an amazing medical system (even if too expensive), clean water, flushable toilets, etc. The trend of political ideologies replacing this and failing miserably in implementation (i.e. Marxism’s failure to address the nature of greed and power, etc) are evidence of this IMO.

There are many things to discuss when it comes to societal faults, but the pendulum has swung too far. It is a core tenet of most effective therapy approaches to realize your inability to control the world and instead controlling your own agency within it. Locus of control is a significant psychological predictor of success and happiness that comes down to little more than chosen perception. Resiliency studies on Auschwitz et al survivors are further demonstrations of this idea.

Sceptic June 11, 2021 5:29 PM

Religion does not do only charity, religion is also active in social change. Think of christianity and buddhism, both brought some thoughts about society in contrast to its contemporary surouding, same did Islam.

For example Bhagavad-gita touches on conflict between “pseudohappy escapism” and “adicted sort of dependance of ones hapiness on external factor and atempt to control it” It concludes the best way to be to be active but also in certain sense give up your efforts to God. For me it also means commiting and devoting to life, doing ones responsibility and also adress the problems of the system and also adress ones own wishes yet in the same time being able to keep some kind of space of overview and mainly learning to be satisfied and in peace with simple act and process of doing rather then being fully depandant on results only. One probably cant drop his regard for results since without it he could hardly devote in sincere manner, he could hardly claim he wants something without caring for result. So one can keep this regard for result but one can also develop apreciation for “heading into direction”.

Mainly I think that both religion as well as today institutional means of adresing psychological and social hardship can be good. One can participate in religion in escapism style, one can seek it for some enjoyment, one can get fanatic over making social change in effect of religion but one can also continue to search for the path that would deny both extremes and try to live according to it. This can be done in context of religion. Religion for me is mainly transformating tradition dealing with those issues.

Wesley Parish June 11, 2021 5:30 PM

I don’t view it as a false dilemma. The overmedication of the masses is one point, which is recommended with but not always done with therapy.

The modality of therapy is interwoven with the individualism of our society; in therapy, you focus on what you can change, which is your very personal thoughts and actions. Sometimes it involves family, and only extremely rarely systemic factors.

It’s been well known that agency and autonomy at work are correlated with much higher senses of well being, and that the lack of then corresponds to much worse mental health outcomes. I can’t say I know the full picture, but it seems to me constant monitoring, lack of agency and having to self monitor all expression (even in social circles now) has all grown. Therapy has been criticised at least for the last decade for minimizing awareness of those effects. Much therapy is also funded through work, and its in some ways a conflict of interest as there’s less incentive to support clients to rock the boat.

There is a danger of oversimplification but I’d say there there are very important points in the article.

Dirk Praet June 11, 2021 5:30 PM

You seem to forget that we’re all born, unconsenting, into some society.

I think about it from the perspective of my little sister, who suffered a stroke in utero and has lived her whole life with global developmental delay.

She’ll turn 30 next year. She has less than 20 words, still wears diapers, and has to have her food cut for her.

Is it her responsibility to overcome those challenges? I actually think it is our social, moral obligation to proactively include her, for her sake, regardless of how productive she (or the system of people including her) is.

It’s also an unavoidable truism that humans express along a spectrum. Or, there is no unambiguous difference between ‘disabled people’ and ‘typical people’. So how do we decide who is entitled to proactive inclusion?

Ready for this?

Everyone is. We are entitled to be included. Not just entitled to include ourselves, but entitled to the effort of the community to make space for each individual. Entitled to a position in the community.

This will never work in a world organized around maximizing profit, right? So we need to change that side of the equation. You will never stop me demanding inclusion.

Sister Lauren June 11, 2021 5:31 PM

Sounds like your sister has a system of familial support. Likely getting government disability, I would assume. What further changes so you wish for? Your sister isn’t expected to work, nor should she be.

To flip it, if there was a treatment for your sister, what would be the justification for refusing that treatment? How is offering treatment a negative thing?

There is a world of difference between depression, anxiety and ADHD and a true learning disability. You should not be comparing these.

Everyone should work to better themselves to the extent they are able. Your sister’s options might be limited. But your sister doesn’t represent everyone. There are plenty of people who could get treatment but refuse for various reasons. Vaguely hand waiving at capitalism is the weakest reason I can think of.

People need to do two things. Work to include others, and work to be included. It’s a two way street. Each to their own ability. I have sympathy for your sister. I don’t have sympathy for someone with depression or anxiety that refuses treatment. If you are able to get treated, you bear that responsibility. I won’t give up on that point. This “blame everything but yourself” culture leaves many people feeling helpless when they can, in fact, still better themselves.

Dirk Praet June 11, 2021 5:34 PM

Let me reframe.

I have ADHD and a big honkin’ brain that’s really good at anything it’s interested in, but really bad at things it’s not interested in.

With the right systems in place, I can be extremely productive, but in rather specific ways. Left to my own devices, I’m nearly useless and I struggle.

I’m approaching my mid 30s and I may finally have built myself some semblance of a system that will hopefully allow me to better sell my actual strengths, but I have absolutely wasted so many hours of my time on bullshit work that has benefited no one and paid me garbage. I was a national merit scholar, I was ‘the top incoming student’ in my year as a college freshman and then the decade since graduating has been a radicalizing nightmare.

The advice that the world has for people like me is, “That looks rough. Sort it out.”

And I am, since I have no fu-cking choice. But a big ‘fu-ck you’ to the world that won’t just fuc-king slow down for a second and help me get plugged in; it’s your loss even more than mine.

MarkH June 11, 2021 5:35 PM

You sound like a lot of people. Being handed a rough life and being told to adapt and figure it out is an experience a lot of people have. We all have no fuc+king choice but to play with the hand we are dealt.

There are many many people who had the potential to contribute to the betterment of the world but were never given the chance.

Plenty of people spend many many hours on stupid bullshit work that doesn’t leave them with anything but the knowledge that they are not dead. Oh yeah they may also have accrued debt in the process.

A great many curse a world that seems cold towards them.

The world will always seem to fast for some people. The easier thing to do is try to get each individual up to speed. This is done through things like therapy and medication in the case of mental health ailments like ADHD. In the unfortunate case where people just can’t get up to speed, in other words if people have a disability, there are welfare programs. Admittedly they are not the best in all societies, but there are advocates trying their best to improve it.

Metaphorically you are a midget living in societies house. You can either be bitter and angry that no one is remodeling the house to provide lower shelves or you can find a step ladder and make it work. The system you developed for yourself may be your step ladder.

I wish you well and best of luck to you.

Herder June 11, 2021 5:35 PM

That is part of your subjective reality. Therapy can work to change your subjective reality, you just have to be willing to drop your attachment to it.

There are subjective realities in which you are not socially anxious, wouldn’t you agree? Wouldn’t you see some benefit from adopting a subjective reality more conducive to achieving your goals?

I’ll put it another way. In an ideal world, what would you be doing that you feel you cannot do currently? A good therapist would start with where you are, to help you get where you want to be. Part of this is challenging your subjective reality where it conflicts with your goals.

To the extent that subjective reality is personal, it is equally malleable. You can adopt a sort of “meta” view of your subjective experience that gives you the power to shape yourself.

Fake June 11, 2021 5:35 PM

Because it’s the same phenomena of pursuing radicality within your own personal self. Mental health care is a revolution in a way, especially when it comes to more serious types of illness. But for the average person, it does act as a modern form of spirituality which posits individual cognitive solutions to what are in large part for many people, societal or structural issues.

Not having enough money,for example, causes a lot of mental problems, and putting the burden of solving that or even just coping with it on therapy as a solution is at best a band-aid.

But it’s also the idea that taking care of your mental health will leed to a truer and better self, when in reality it’s becoming a rather anti-social retreat into oneself. It’s like a sort of personnel spirituality which is radical now in the sense that it’s “liberating” from the societal and cultural structures that society inculcates us with.

It’s a very egotistical way of dealing with mental problems and human emotions which ignores the role society plays aside from social norms considered oppressive.

echo June 11, 2021 5:38 PM

It’s everyone’s responsibility. ‘Hand outs’ do in fact work very well, especially for people and children in abject poverty. All sorts of outcomes for individuals and communities improve upon injection of everything from capital to petty cash. Money given to the poor spurs more than enough economic activity to justify the cost, not to mention the increased tax revenues at all levels of government.

But no one in real life only advocates for just ‘hand-outs’. The ‘hand-ups’ that are commonly advocated for are things like job guarantees, minimum wage increases, taxes on the top 1-10% of wealth-holders, political finance reform to reenfranchise the lower classes, progressive tax reform, free education and healthcare, etc. etc.

These are pretty basic things that aren’t hand-outs, but material investments in the population which return enormous amounts of economic growth, tax revenue, material profit, sustainability, security, and well-being for the entire nation. All of which are literally the point of having a government at all.

In a political context, tropes of ‘personal reponsibility’ are always a distraction and an excuse to continue the destructive, inhumane, and immoral status quo, which is, to put it simply, the systematic disenfranchment of the vast majority for the benefit of an oligarchic ruling class that is destroying the biosphere and making life miserable for everyone not born with a silver spoon up their ass.

SpaceLifeForm June 11, 2021 5:39 PM

That’s not true in the black and white way you make it out to be. For example, massive amounts of funds pumped into low-income area schools in the US are utterly squandered and do not in any way correlate (in many cases) with an increase in student success or the quality of education increasing. Similarly, depending on the demographic, welfare is often squandered and simply taken advantage of, or too low to be meaningful for i.e. single mothers (while having a job disqualifies one from it). When viewed through the lens of statistics it is not so simple.

Minimum wage increases are only as good as the stability of the economy, the availability of work and the affordability of the housing market. Large, government mandated increases not correlating with the rate of inflation increase inflation and decrease job availability. In most cases it is a fine line that needs to be walked and is highly dependent on the country. Pumping money into or regulating the wrong category is potentially hazardous and it’s rather clear the government isn’t all that good at efficiently allocating tax dollars.

Investments in the population, sure: affordable housing, access to goods, reducing inflation, etc. Large scale handouts combined with continual restrictions like Canada has continued to do long past covid’s big waves ( the CERB), along with an unwillingness to stunt foreign investor purchasing, have contributed to crazy levels of inflation on practical goods, insane inflation in the housing market and a far above average unemployment rate.

Note that I’m talking purely through the lens of politics and taxation. Charity is a different story.

JonknowsNothing June 11, 2021 5:40 PM

This knowledge is the seed for the mental health issues, seeing the false reporting of self actualization as the main cure, in jobs, in health, in wealth.

There are so many lies about what society needs, there are billions of people and they are not all meant to be Supermen and women that pull themselves out of poverty, which statistically is hard and an anomaly.

The stress of the poor eats health, motivation and just sheer time that is not generally calculated.

The lies through media, the system feeds and protects itself.

Even through COVID the simple change of having no choice but to work from home has changed millions of lives in a meaningful way. Yet before this the system tended towards limited or no working from home in most office based jobs.

Power, control, oversight. All things that come from a place of fear.

For some people giving the poor welfare generates fear, giving outsiders, immigrants a leg up generates fear.

They are lazy, they are taking our jobs. Mostly irrational fears when you look at the numbers and facts about these things.

Yet a lot of my friends and colleagues have these views and you need to fit in, so while I’m relatively well off I can’t express them to protect my job, my health, my chance at a comfortable life with shelter and food.

They also say I’m well off so I don’t know. But I grew up in a family on welfare all my childhood, primary producers working the land getting up early to do work when I was younger.

I know what it’s like down there. I got lucky. I know this. It’s my lived experience yet because of where I am now I can’t advocate for the poor now. Ok.

Fuc-k the system.

This makes me think of the Matrix and most people who watch it like to think they are Neo. In reality they should be paying more attention to ignorance is bliss Cypher or protect the system Agent Smith for their lessons from this movie.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons June 11, 2021 5:41 PM

I recently finished the book Sapiens which explores why homo sapiens and not other homo species ended up taking over the world. There was a bit of a blending but the author’s conclusion is that sapiens, despite their smaller brains, were able have collective beliefs whether it be in religion or people or systems of government. This allowed them to grow into groups larger than the clan (150-200 people). The problem is that a portion of the population believes climate change is real, a portion is too apathetic to see beyond their own needs, a portion believes it’s in god’s hands, etc. We don’t (apparently) have the ability to make collective rational decisions. Couple that with a dominant economic system that holds profits as paramount, a system of government that is manipulated by the key players in that economy, and a highly sophisticated advertising and public opinion shaping apparatus including social media and you have what we see today. Mental health counseling may pacify some but helping people get to a state of mind where they can actually find ways to be helpful is a noble goal. I think a lot of the young people today have it very rough indeed and their suffering is real.

Ross Snider June 11, 2021 5:42 PM

A large part of the problem is the new religion SCIENCE like other human endeavors is vulnerable to bribery. Show me the money and I can find a Scientist to support your premise. Climate change is replete with junk science, like the deadly virus fear campaign we have endured. The vaccine is not a vaccine, it’s a shot in the dark to placate and manipulate the populace. Now it.has been discovered the spike on the protein thought to be an ally is actually toxic. And the notion the contents of the jab remain in the deltoid muscle disproven. We are left with no vaccinated person can be a blood donor or breastfeed. Isn’t that wonderful? The shot felt round the world causes clotting in the bloodstream and migrates to breasts and ovaries. Population reduction, anyone? No, there is no evil agenda. Science said it would be ok to put nuclear waste in steel drums and drop them into salt water just outside the Golden Gate near the Farallon Islands destroying a fishery and a few years later producing glow in the dark radioactive sponges. What happens to a person when the dominant concensus narrative is patently false? One focus of the design of the U.S. Government is the prevention of majority rule. Real Science does not shrink from debate. But if you go to health here it says. No anti-vaxers. We are a sub of science. Madness. I didn’t experience cognitive dissonance until I listened to Fauci flip flop flip flop. He has contradicted himself so often he has lost all credibility. He’s a puppet. A dishonest puppet. When the truth is found to be lies and all the joy within you dies (J.Airplane) don’t you….mourn the loss of reason

Winter June 11, 2021 5:43 PM

Well this took a strange turn. There is no new world order or reptile Jews with an elaborate plot to poison you. There is a vast network that operates out in the open called the shareholder class that doesn’t care if you die or the environment is destroyed but the motive is simply money. And yes they do produce some absurd studies. In the early days of the pandemic, while the virus was being studied, there were conflicting reports about the way in which the virus behaves and so the recommendations evolved which is exactly what one would expect. If Fauci was part of a conspiracy to control the population, I am fairly certain he would not have played a major role in reducing the rates of HIV. I encourage you to read the wikipedia on collective narcissism as I believe you may be suffering from it. I hope you decide to get some help and sort things out.

Dirk Praet June 11, 2021 5:44 PM

That’s very kind of you to suggest I need help to sort things out. It’s not a conspiracy it’s a group of like minded people in persuit common interests – money and social control. Maybe you should read up on WEF and Davos, the billionaires club. Somewhere in every government is somebody running scenarios of reduced population. We are past the numbers being merely unwieldy they have become impossible. New world order came out of the mouth of Bush Senior and has been espoused by WEF. You attempt to disparage my remarks with phrases like “reptile Jews”. I made no reference to anything like that and that you do reveals a condescending character assassin. It’s no surprise narcissism occured you, it’s on your mind often. Spare me the projection. FYI internal FBI documents released 50 years after JFK have the agents congratulating themselves on “conspiracy theory” being their best propaganda campaign ever. You can indoctrinated to belittle people who make legitimate inquiry. Obviously.

echo June 11, 2021 5:45 PM

This is a very timely line of thinking, especially the observation that psychology’s malleability can be a blessing or a curse.

Our best science tells us that in the coming decade, the reality of our climate predicament will become undeniable, but also will go beyond what our minds have been conditioned to accept. As it becomes more real, it will become more unreal.

Psychology (and philosophy) can either help galvanize us to collective communal action, or just cause us to each endure the situation alone. Fostering acceptance of reality (which is healthy) without acquiescence to a dismal future (which is not) is a very fine line.

As for me, I’m lucky enough to have convinced my psychiatrist that climate change is the threat I say it is. He’s pretty freaked out about it now, and that’s validated my efforts to take serious action. 🙂

https://www.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyt.2020.00074/full

https://eos.org/features/the-emotional-toll-of-climate-change-on-science-professionals

https://www.theguardian.com/society/ng-interactive/2019/aug/12/life-on-thin-ice-mental-health-at-the-heart-of-the-climate-crisis

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 June 11, 2021 5:46 PM

Indeterminate
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Goatherder June 12, 2021 6:20 AM

Is not a comment from me I am confused which ones in this thread are real.

That is the unfortunate result of the ongoing censorship by the rabid winterrascal and the complicit spineless moderator.

Understandably this has led to some not really desired situations, but like many times, patience is a virtue and as time goes by things will improve eventually (at least as soon as the aforementioned totalitarian oppressors change their ways of behaving themselves).

Have a very nice and beautiful day and may god bless you:)

- June 12, 2021 12:06 PM

@Goat:
@SpaceLifeForm:
@Clive:
@Moderator:
@Winter:

“Is not a comment from me I am confused which ones in this thread are real.”

As both myself and @SpaceLifeForm have said the Trool-Tools who are basically of the imbicilic keep bashing away form of Trumpian 400lb existing at their parents largess as thry lead a probably incell life style suffer from on or more of the ‘dark triad” of narcissism, psychopathy, sadism feel they must hsve their way. However they are also extreamly cowardly along with thrir ineptness and bellow K-12 passing grade IQ/ability, so one of lifes compleate failures in anything that others would recognise as “useful to society”.

So someone has fed them bovine scat and they have treated it as ego food and eaten it up as though ambrosia. So are now deluding themselves they are “something” other than that you would avoid treading in, should you be unlucky enough to find it, one of it’s excrescencences, or effluvia in your path.

Thus they are rather less than a zero, but as with all such cowards –think less than spoilt six year old bully– they think they can ‘big it up’ behind a keyboard and some ‘script kiddy nonsense’ they have been given.

Thus they can not be slighted as this hurts the fragil vanity backed by an even more fragile ego and they have to lash out.

So far their targets have ignored them or laughed at them or pointed out things that would make others laugh at them. Thus they are failing miserably so and will continue to fail over and over. You can see their frustration displayed in the behaviour they exhibit.

So they try to salvage some dregs of self respect by pretending they have a cause, that makes then some kind of “hero” rather than the sub zero their behaviour demonstrates every time.

They are out classed in every way, and even though they know it the drak triade defects that make them a waste of flesh in society drives them on to ever more futile attampts to be granted what they crave beyond all else some crumb of recognition…

Well as an old saying has it “There’s nowt deserving there” and some small part of them actually knows that. Thus at some point they will resort to drink, drugs or both to block it out if they have not already started. Once on that self destructive slope they will downward spiral untill they in effect commit a slow and painful form of suicide, proving to all that indeed they were a wast of human flesh and a leach on society.

Understanding the mentality of the Troll-Tools drivers and the limited capacity of the Troll-Tools you can understand why some here are treating them like “rats in a maze” for research.

But the limited capability horizon of the Troll-Tools beating at it for self gratification that is just not coming to them, shows in their increasingly desperate attempts to gain what they are never going to achieve.

Thus they try to be “clever” and fail in a way that just leads them to desperately flail at it…

Which in this case is to implement a couple of databases of user handles and user comments and then use them together to generate a lot of “fake traffic” they hoped would not immediately be spotted. But was, which is where the fake comment that has caused you to comment was from.

But the Troll-Tools got it badly wrong, I know roughly when you first started using your handle as does @SpaceLifeForm, we also both know that the @ianf persona left after embarrassing themselves repeatedly quite some time before that. So without doing any other checking we know the comment is a fake, simple as that.

However if you read through what the Troll-Tools output, you quickly realise that they think they are being “clever” and use the fake comments to direct attacks against specific individuals, who if they are wise will not respond, and let others deal with the Troll-Tools messes.

But as the @Moderator should be informed the attacks directed against specific individuals are probably not ment to creat much in the way of issues on this blog, but get pulled into search engines where others like prospective employers, law enforcment, government seat fillers and others who have pettie bourgeois power look like they are doing “due dilligence” when in fact they are doing the exact opposit and demonstrating how lacking in ability they are.

Thus the Troll-Tools aim is to try and force people off of this blog out of fear for their own future. A basically cowardly act of petty vindictiveness that the @Moderator could easily stop if they wished to.

Any way appologies for the long reply, it serves a purpose to,

1, Show what the Troll-Tools are upto.
2, Provide a defence against lazy bureaucratic seat stuffers, who potentially can ruin innocent peoples futures.

Any way don’t worry and carry on behaving as normal, is the best advise I can give.

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