Friday Squid Blogging: Searching for Giant Squid by Collecting Environmental DNA

The idea is to collect and analyze random DNA floating around the ocean, and using that to figure out where the giant squid are. No one is sure if this will actually work.

As usual, you can also use this squid post to talk about the security stories in the news that I haven’t covered.

Read my blog posting guidelines here.

Posted on January 8, 2021 at 4:02 PM224 Comments


Zinaida Benenson January 8, 2021 4:23 PM

[posted with Bruce’s permission] My research group at the University of Erlangen-Nuremberg (Germany) is conducting a survey to test the reliability of CVSS (Common Vulnerability Scoring System). If you are currently assessing vulnerabilities using CVSS, we would greatly appreciate your participation which contributes to the improvement of vulnerability management. The survey takes 30 min on average (according to participation time we measured so far):

There has been a lot of critique on CVSS, and we are conducting a rigorous experimental investigation of some of these critique points. The survey will be running till the end of January.

If you are not scoring vulnerabilities using CVSS, but know people who are, we would be very grateful if you helped us and distributed this survey to them. By now we have around 160 responses, and it would be good to have 250-300 for robust statistical hypotheses testing.

Thank you!

IT Security Infrastructures Lab
Computer Science 1
University of Erlangen-Nuremberg, Germany

Anonymous January 8, 2021 4:32 PM

“Caution: JavaScript execution is disabled in your browser or for this website. You may not be able to answer all questions in this survey. Please, verify your browser parameters.”

Sorry, information security experts HATE javascript-only sites. Redo your questionnaire without javascript and I might even answer.

SpaceLifeForm January 8, 2021 5:31 PM

@ Apple

Again, do not remove Parler App. People need to have somewhere to go as Twitter is house cleaning. Thank you!

htt ps://

After close review of recent Tweets from the @realDonaldTrump
account and the context around them we have permanently suspended the account due to the risk of further incitement of violence.

Charles Todd January 8, 2021 7:49 PM

This bonus security story also mentions squids on a Squid day as well as something good that the NSA did for the security community.

Speed runners playing for 100% completion of the Gamecube/WiiU game “Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker” (preview) have been irritated for years about a Battleship-like minigame called “Sploosh Kaboom.” The game is hard because it has been extremely difficult to predict where it will place “squids” on the board. Three squids of various sizes are hiding on the board and the player has a limited number of tries to find them all. Fortunately a large squid is four horizontal or vertical blocks long, then three, and then two blocks for the other squids. Since the game awards winners with items like a treasure map, these completionists are compelled to win multiple times. The randomness of the layout could make or break a speed run record.

Using the NSA reverse engineering tool Ghidra, they discovered that the game PRNG has a hard-coded seed to an otherwise decent algorithm. As the PRNG advances three to four times per frame, most people considered it impossible to predict the layout of Sploosh Kaboom since it appears a full 30 minutes into the game. As it turns out, the game has a limited number of board layouts which, with some careful work with statistics and the fact that these are speed runners who count frames, you can actually narrow down the selection of boards by quite a bit. So they built a “Sploosh Kaboom Probability Calculator” to throw out possible boards.
The Zelda Dungeon has another short write up and a link to an extraordinary video with some excellent visualizations of tough statistics. Linkus7 also has other videos about how they’ve analyzed the PRNG for fun and adventures.

I used to think that only state actors would take the time to do things like poison an entropy pool, but even hardcore gamers are in on the PRNG action.

counter January 8, 2021 7:59 PM


@ Apple
Please do NOT remove the Parler app from the App Store.

The Wednesday events were planned in social media. Any one supporting a channel of voice for those characters should be responsible for their actions.

Freedom of speech does not equate responsibility to provide a channel for the speech. Let them build their own channel.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 8, 2021 8:43 PM

Does anyone get the eerie feeling that you’re trapped in a time machine and have been taken back to 1933 and are standing in front of the Reichstag?

The ability to remove the article one branch of the U.S. government almost became a thing…there is no question what is the target. Do congress persons and Senators understand where they stand, doesn’t matter what party, congress was targeted.

What is the better part of valor?

JonKnowsNothing January 8, 2021 9:45 PM

@Charles Todd , All

re:Games and PRNG

Not too long back there was a very interesting exchange about RNG/PRNG.

Video Combat MMORPGs are based on PRNG exchanges. Their formats inherited from paper games like D&D.

In paper games, each player has a set of multi-sided dice. Dice rolls are used to determine the actions and play. The various sided dice and rolls determine success/failure and all states in between of play. (Roll 20)

In computer games the PRNG does all the work and all the calculations. Large scale games include other aspects besides just combat, like crafting and the PRNG determines critical success (bonus hits).

There is always a discussion about the validity of the PRNG outcome.

In some cases it’s because the players may think the rolls should be cumulative (they rolled 100 times and had no bonus hits). In other cases it’s about the values of the PRNG and sub-actions in a single action. Often times players do find there’s a logic flaw in the maths but it’s nearly impossible to determine the true value of the PRNG roll.

Lots of high level players just record the entire combat exchange and use provided combat logs to back-in the numbers. On more complex encounters with 6,12,24+ players they record many views and reverse engineer all the scripted permutations.

PRNGs are not RNGs and are not truly random.

One aspect that can be noticed is that N-Players doing the same action in the same area all end up with synchronized movements. Such movements can be part of how the client server system transmits the frames to each player’s view.

The calculations are happening much faster than the frame rate and it’s not uncommon for player with slower graphics and connections to “still be fighting” when the Boss is already dead.

Reverse engineering game play is common and scripted responses are also common.

PvE = Player vs Environment (Server)
PvP = Player vs Player (Dueling)
CvS = Computer vs Server (scripted hands off play)

note: There are many sorts of scripts, most are used for repetitive actions like pressing Enter 100 times. Advanced Scripts can automate complex actions or combat. When included with OCR and screen scraping, Lua and others script types, can make games easier for disadvantaged players or can complete entire multiplayer raid sequences Hands Free.

Such actions and the increase use of AI/ML in Chess games is causing some serious reverberations for game play, including tournament level.

Clive Robinson January 8, 2021 10:34 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm, ALL,

Google removes Parler App.

When you have a dangerous and virulent pest like killer wasps at the bottom of your garden, it’s often best not to attack the nest when the temprature is high and the wasps fractious. Because they tend to swarm out and mob every living thing around.

The general solution to such problems is to wait untill the temprature drops and they draw deep into the nest. Then seal it in before burning it down. That way the wasps do not spread out and your problems are thus not multiplied.

SpaceLifeForm January 8, 2021 10:56 PM

Chances are, that if you reply to @TwitterSafety, and complain about twitter banning, using the Twitter App, you probably live in St. Petersburg.

Broken irony meters abound.

SpaceLifeForm January 8, 2021 11:13 PM


Please listen to this if you can. It’s uplifting. It’s where we are.

ht tps://

Clive Robinson January 8, 2021 11:13 PM

@ name.withheld…,

Does anyone get the eerie feeling that you’re trapped in a time machine and have been taken back…

Beer Halls have been a traditional place for insurection to start.

Simple logic would suggest closing them would stop the spread of the virulence they belch forth into the night. Unfortunately such noxious effluvia does not respond to simple logic, as has been demonstrated. So they simply go to ground, and head for places unseen such as underground.

The way to deal with such pests is to drive them into the light, where they can be seen and quarantined.

Remember that it was not the rats that killed people, it was the plague they carried that spread faster than it killed the rat.

The way to stop the plague they carry, is to keep them in one place till the plague they are infested with eradicates the rats or burns out so they nolonger carry it.

Out of sight should never be out of mind for it is out of sight that the rot spreads and brings down the entire house.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 8, 2021 11:37 PM

@ MODERATOR: EDITORIAL DISCRETION ASSUMED (Just don’t turn off my tweeter account, please! I’ll read from the teleprompter, okay?)

Rambling, incoherent stream of ethernet frames that may contain some discernible TCP packets. Skip to ignore, or read on and beware.

Given that occupation of Michigan’s capital by fascist anti-masker types; some would later plot, plan, and execute operational preparation to kidnap and murder the Governor, it seems that the movements against elected officials is
a non-organic militant movement. There seems to be a parallel in the objective goals in separate incidents around the United States at both the state and federal levels of government.

Based on propaganda fomented and forwarded by those in the Federal government that have either hold political office or have become engaged (Powell and Rudy) are complicit participant on someone’s payroll attempting to enrich themselves with undue authorities and power. The identification, codification, and knowledge required to ascertain political folly attempting to mascaraed as a patriotic movement does little to quell the stupidity and absurdity that engulfs too many other non-tards. Answers, resounding and competent must step up and in to this maelstrom that is of agent orange’s making.

Corporate organizations, such as Ruppert Murdoch’s Fox News, have enjoined in
a conspiracy against the social order that goes well beyond anything a
tweet storm can accomplish. Zuckerberg isn’t nimble or dumb enough to pull this off, but he does make a great tool. Over the last five years the country of the United States has become captive to the ignorance that willfully embraces falsehoods and lies spread to the degree that “trial by combat” is a method of protest with the support staff is provided by a malignant narcissist. U.S. Senators, congressional house members, and other public officials have tied their wagon to the funding mechanism that exploits the fools too ignorant to know they are being played and calls this winning. If that’s so, call me a loser…I’m out. You with me Lindsey Graham?

The players, too stupid to understand history and the abject hubris in their breath, journey to the center of hell, a hell of their own making. Flouting their bits of grandiosity to others with care, until the veil covering the mirror is removed…how can we be so ugly, a horrid and vulgar reflection of what was crafted in our image? Vanity born from the unwillingness to know truth, resistant to movement and exploration, is something that has perverted the landscape such that all is laid waste. You fools, you’ve sent everything to /dev/null.

The corporate and the hopeless are married by a ceremoniously simply process, it is an act where one being the pied piper and the other the rat. Their common paths, bely not their station nor their status. Both are contemptuous of the other, not trusting nor virtuous in any matter or manner.

The years of vitriol, Newt Gingrich started it, and the debasing of the political environment to nothing more than a poorly officiated rugby match has resulted in laying waste to the polity available to all. We are all victimized by this virulent and steaming stew of fecal soup served us by all that have bought into “poverty politics and despair”.

Poverty; the place where the mind, body, soul, and music of humanity lies today.

SpaceLifeForm January 9, 2021 12:02 AM

@ name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons

I had to LOL on first two paragraphs. But then I immediately left the beer hall.

I bow. I’d give you all of my mod points, but I put them into bitcoin.

JonKnowsNothing January 9, 2021 12:35 AM

@Clive @name.withheld..

re:Beer Halls and noxious effluvia

There was that charming dude who pe-ed on a memorial to a decorated officer killed during a terrorist attack in the UK. Some not very romantic images of his backside while he relieved himself while protesting something… maybe not enough pissoirs.

he was not aware of the memorial’s presence or its significance.
He said he had drunk 16 pints over Friday night.

Courage in 16 pints…

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  A far right protester urinates on the memorial to PC Keith Palmer outside the Houses of Parliament.

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Keith David Palmer,[1] GM (3 October 1968[2] – 22 March 2017) was a British police officer who was posthumously awarded the George Medal, the second highest award for gallantry “not in the face of the enemy”. Though unarmed, he stopped a knife-wielding terrorist from entering the Palace of Westminster during the 2017 Westminster attack; he died from wounds he received in this attack.[3][4] He had worked for the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) for 16 years, and had joined the MPS’s Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection Group in April 2016.[3]

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Hansel and Gretel and Ted and Alice, an opera in one unnatural act, S. 2n-1

* Aria: “I am a quaint old innkeeper”
  “You can’t keep drinking beer all day,
  And keep it to yourself.”

SpaceLifeForm January 9, 2021 1:00 AM

@ Clive, name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons

Anyone noticed that for years that Fox never experienced an outage?

Anyone have any idea how that magically could happen?

Has anyone noticed this besides me?


Oh! My bad. It must have been a DOS attack.

h ttp s://

SpaceLifeForm January 9, 2021 1:56 AM

Cosmic level backtrolling in action. Unreal.

Account created about 7 hours ago. 4 tweets now.
Already over 240K followers. Growing fast. Probably will be over 500K when I check later after sleep. Cosmic.

hx tps://

Curious January 9, 2021 2:47 AM

Off topic:

Reading a recent article about how Julian Assange is recently denied bail after a UK court or somesuch is not allowing an extradition to USA from UK, I am reading this paragraph below in the news article, which is a little true and very false at the same time, being misleading because it is inherently disingenous, and therefore wrong because it isn’t factual. Facts are best understood within a context or several, which is why we like to think of facts as truthful and meaningful I would argue, and so facts are not statements that you can derive truthful statements from. Facts matter because that is the only thing facts do. Much like opinions, the making or claiming of facts ends up being unpersuasive arguments without a proper context, like making a generalization for no good reason (or possibly for a bad reason). So if media wants people to think of JA as a potential sex criminal, making such generalizations is imo the same as a character assasination of JA.

“Assange’s legal troubles began in 2010 when he was arrested in London at the request of Sweden, which wanted to question him about allegations of rape and sexual assault made by two women. In 2012, to avoid being sent to Sweden, Assange sought refuge inside the Ecuadorian Embassy, where he was beyond the reach of U.K. and Swedish authorities — but also effectively a prisoner, unable to leave the tiny diplomatic mission in London’s tony Knightsbridge area.” (bold text formatting added by me)

So, the fox news text makes the reader think Assange fled from rape charges (UK high court, as I remember it, imo oddly concluded something that an investigation of a person having made a crime, was equal to being ‘charged’ for(?) a crime for the purpose of extradition. There are obvious two errors here it seems to me. It has been a while now since JA was in Sweden, and it is difficult if not impossible for me to keep track of everything I read, but I think I do remember some things from back then.
On second thought, rewriting this text, no wonder perhaps if a UK court deem early on that an foreign country’s investigation into a person was equal to charging that person, then that in turn could perhaps have been used as the same rationale of sorts for extradition to USA from whatever country JA would be in I am thinking now.

1) Even in this time where it must be obvious to everybody that USA demand having Julian Assange extradited from UK, Fox News like other media, afaik even local media where I live, seemingly claim that Julian Assange fled possible rape charges in Sweden. If one acknowledge that USA is indeed requesting an extradition from UK, then one shouldn’t keep pretending that JA had been fleeing Swedish prosecution re. rape allegations, something which also obviously wasn’t true either, or being more like wishful thinking at this point.

2) When Fox news makes the reader think that JA was facing rape and assault allegations by literally two women, thinking back on what I read, from what was written about this years ago it should be obvious that it was not the intent of the two women to go to the police to press charges, the motivating factor for starting an investigation of possible rape and assault charges seems to be entirely at the very discretion of the Swedish prosecutional power. Reportedly, the Swedish prosecutional power initially closed the investigation, but was renewed later by some other prosecutor, obviously because they wanted to try prosecute JA for sexual misconduct or crimes by their own discretion.

3) The optional interpetation of the media in general, which seems more like a character assassination of JA at this point, is that because the bar is so low in Sweden for possibly running afoul of sexual crimes, media is biased towards the wishful thinking that JA was alleged to have raped and assaulted two women. What is missing is the context for all of this, and so instead of being factual media end up like with something that looks like a character assasination, which news is never supposed to be.


(I don’t like reading Foxnews (or I don’t trust them) but ever since Jon Stewart made such a mockery of Foxnews on occasions, I thought I’d keep an eye on them. I thought it was interesting at first how they generally seemed to have video snips for every news article, but now it seems they just rerun the same video across various articles with no relation to the video.)

Tatütata January 9, 2021 3:02 AM

Seen a few minutes ago in The Guardian’s running COVID ticker:

Fraudsters are targeting elderly and vulnerable people with a fake vaccine, the UK’s National Crime Agency (NCAA), has said.

Officers warned that the scammers are demanding bank details or cash payments for access to a jab – something the NHS would not do when administering a legitimate dose.

The National Economic Crime Centre is working with government and law enforcement to urge people to remain vigilant and follow basic advice in relation to the NHS Covid vaccination programme, which will always be free.

The NHS will never ask for payment for vaccines or bank details.

In the UK, coronavirus vaccines will only be available via the NHS […].

Tatütata January 9, 2021 3:08 AM

(This is my third, updated and condensed, attempt)


The German Chaos Computer Club traditionally holds its congress in the closing days of the year at large venues such as the Messe Leipzig.

This year, events obliging, it switched to a virtual online format (with the title appropriately modified to “Remote Chaos”). Participants were able to register for free (but donations were encouraged) in order to watch presentations live and eventually intervene.

The media are available for viewing here, with dubbing available if needed:

Even though there is that somewhat depressing Zoom/Skype/etc. feel to the thing, the subjects covered are as diverse and topical as ever. At the last count, there are nearly 165-170 session recordings (they continued to trickle in after the even ended).

JonKnowsNothing January 9, 2021 3:22 AM


re:Tweets a Twits

While the mini-mice are fleeing, there are some larger Rattus Rattus that have been making lots of simulated coins over the last nearly 4 years (or more).

These larger Rattus Rattus realized that they are now in Full Public View, something no Rattus Rattus would normally enjoy. Some swift re-direction is needed to avoid being noticed.

Most of the mini-mice got something they wanted: a load of pardons, a (dishonored) medal, loads of cash, swanky digs and sleaze.

The larger Rattus Rattus, now pretend to be something other than what they are. If a Rattus Rattus can go from “Do Not Be Evil” to “Be Evil” and nothing happened; why not pretend the reverse? It worked for Roy.

ht tps://

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The unitary executive theory is a theory of United States constitutional law which holds that the President of the United States possesses the power to control the entire executive branch. The doctrine is rooted in Article Two of the United States Constitution, which vests “the executive power” of the United States in the President

(url fractured to prevent autorun)

Curious January 9, 2021 3:23 AM

To add to what I wrote:

I had forgotten something or some things when I wrote my comment above.

Hm, I still think the Fox News article is wrong, but I realized only now that I obviously had sort of forgotten that USA afaik already has made ‘charges’ against Assange (even if thought of as bs); but I still think that if the USA charges if somehow later found not credible or something, then imo UK should not consider enabling extradition of Assange to USA like they did for Sweden by claiming that Assange was effecitvely ‘charged’.

I am now trying to think of why Assange was never extradited from UK to Sweden, and I guess the reason for that never happening is because UK arrested Assange at the Equadorian embassy so that he could be extradited to USA (and no longer Sweden).

JonKnowsNothing January 9, 2021 3:38 AM


re:Why not Sweden?

Swedish laws are much different than the assumptions made by USA relating to the “charges”,”assertions”, and “allegations”.

Part of the entire fiasco, was the refusal of the Swedish Prosecutor #2 to interview M. Assange while M. Assange was in the UK (this is way before Ecuador granted him asylum). There was an insistence that M. Assange should go to Sweden for the interview, but the Swedish Government would not guarantee that M. Assange would not be renditioned to the USA.

The Swedish Prosecutor #2 claimed that the interview had to be done In Sweden, hence the first set of trials. It turns out that the Swedish Prosecutors came to the UK often for such interviews and there was no impediment at that time for a meeting.

Swedish Prosecutor #2, ran down the clock on those allegations and let the statute of limitations expire.

The legal problems are complicated and many and others may have better memory and insights.

David Rudling January 9, 2021 4:43 AM

Our host has COVID-19 as a valid tag for his blog so I make no apologies for this post being only at the fringe of the main Security topic.

I found the bulletin in the link very interesting. As the blurb states “Contributors to this issue are drawn from a range of fields, from the actuarial world to catastrophe modelling and medicine.”

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(fractured to prevent autorun)

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 9, 2021 5:24 AM

What the heck is the congressional leadership thinking, “Oh, it’s the weekend and we will be back on Tuesday for regular order.” How incompetent and clueless are the people in DC? It must be a requirement to not score above 100 on a standard IQ test.

Delay equals death, have you not seen the morgues, chiller trailers, and hammered health care workers and systems all to make room for more dead people. Not even when the fascist come from your own backyard think it is cool just to go home and have an ice cream. Others will be looking in the bins for food that might have been thrown out…lucky citizens.

Who’s running this clown car?

Clive Robinson January 9, 2021 6:21 AM

@ Curious,

With respect to JA and the two women, there was never any allegations that relationships had not been consensual. Apparently the Swedish law invoked for “sexual integrity” does not even “translate” into other nations legal systems.

There are copies of the Swedish documents on,

It’s all very murky, apparently both women knew each other and both had with the knowledge of the other pursued sexual relations with JA, and the charges only came about weeks later… After the relationships ended with one of the women talking the other into going to the authorities.

Read the charges and make your mind up but to be quite honest they read as though there is no physical evidence of the claims nore was there a discontinuance of relationships untill later.

Where it all gets realy murky is what happend next. Originally it was indicated that JA terminated the relationships by moving to another country on business that had been arranged quite some time before. Now there is a story from Sweden that the police tipped off JA’s lawyers and that he fled… Which if the latter not the former is true why would the police inform JA’s lawyers rather than just take him into custody or even let him get on an aircraft leaving their jurisdiction?

Anyway which ever way you look at it apparently JA does have a way with women both before and after the Swedish incident (his two young sons).

Even though the Swedish authorities have supposadly stopped the investigating on more than one occasion apparently the time limits have since passed.

What will happen next will depend on who takes up the seat in the DoJ now that William Barr has vacated it. There is a quirk in US legislation that prisoners to be held in “Special Administrative Measures” are held under the sole control of that “political office”…

Bob January 9, 2021 8:58 AM

People will never know the truth when they gleefully call for censorship. No speech should ever be banned; free speech is part of a free people. Bad ideas or comments need to be countered with good ideas only. Just like erasing history does not change it; it only causes people to more easily repeat mistakes in the past. Sadly the people cheering for free speech to be squashed are cheering for an evil thing. It is sad to see my fellow Americans not understand they are becoming the thing they profess to hate. Also, history shows us that calling people animals, or, insects, is meant to reduce people to a sub-human, so that extermination feels justified. Many are becoming the evil they profess to hate, and my heart is sorrowful.

Winter January 9, 2021 9:10 AM

“No speech should ever be banned; free speech is part of a free people.”

I think organizing an insurrection to murder elected politicians is not “protected speech”.

Also, the one thing Trump has tried to do since day one is silencing those who disagree.

Bob January 9, 2021 9:39 AM

Did you watch the speech from the president? I am afraid you are peddling conspiracy theories with your accusations. Interesting how Trump has not called for anyone to be banned, but those who oppose him have. Ironically, those calling for censorship have somehow been brainwashed into thinking censorship of anyone is a solution, but alas the island of those who require censorship will become larger and larger. Next, the ones we disagree with will be dehumanized, and than a purge is “ok”. Have we ever see this occur before in history?

Winter January 9, 2021 9:56 AM

“Did you watch the speech from the president?”

Meaning derives from context. Speech is not writing. In the context of the March, But Trump senior and junior told the protesters the future of their country was in their hands and the politicians in the Capitol were destroying the country.

As a consequence we all saw protesters yelling death threats, bombs were placed, and a police officer was beaten to death.

Put any linguist on the speeches, and she will explain in excruciating detail how well chosen the words were to incite the murderous insurrection.

” Interesting how Trump has not called for anyone to be banned, but those who oppose him have. ”

I will gracefully assume you have lived under a rock. But Trump has tried to withdraw broadcast licenses of unwelcome stations and he has called for buying up newspapers to change the editorial policy. Scientists who work for federal institutes were gagged.

Nick Levinson January 9, 2021 10:22 AM


You’re posting in the context of the insurrection, so you may be arguing for free speech protection to apply to private hosts (viz., Twitter, Facebook, Google, and Yahoo). That is at their discretion and is not Constitutionally protected, and that is appropriate. They, too, have free speech protection, which includes being protected from having to say what they don’t want to say, including carrying other people’s comments on their platforms. I do not have to advocate for National Socialism or Stalinism or astrology if I don’t want to and I am Constitutionally protected in that decision. If hosts are not protected, then Constitutional rights would be in conflict between hosts as speakers or bullhorns and guest speakers. If you’re a car company’s employee and you’re in their factory, you don’t have a right to say the cars are all lousy and the company should go out of business; you can be fired for disloyalty and a court won’t protect you.

If a host is a government-run host, that would be different. In general, if a Federal website under statutory control had user-editable content, the users would have free speech protections against the host. But I don’t know of any Federal website offering a user that option. Not many Federal hosts would care to have “Overthrow the government!” on public display.

Sancho_P January 9, 2021 10:38 AM

@SpaceLifeForm, re parler, twitter and the croc

True American heroes:
Pay homage to an idol and kick at the idiot when it falls.

Mind you, in any democratic state with independent justice a court order would have stopped the slandering many moons ago.

It’s wrong to suppress the voice, you have to silence the man.

Sancho_P January 9, 2021 10:41 AM

@Bob, re not banning speech:

+1, and:
“Free speech” doesn’t mean “no liability”.

Matrix January 9, 2021 10:50 AM

Great talk by Andy Müller-Maguhn from Chaos Computer Club on CIA and also british security services covert and overt surveillance tactics employed agains’t him:

http s://

It details an advanced hardware bug introduced on his cryptophone where the audio signal path before encryption was tampered with and being stored on 16 GB flash. This was a passive system triggered by HF and recordings would be transmitted in the 800Mhz band. There seems to be some crypto chips involved in the bug design (maybe used in the data-exfiltration path, HF CC commands???).

It also talks about overt surveillance. I find somehow that some technical terms actually serve the purpose of minimizing the true evilness of such procedures. Overt surveillance should be called by what it really is. Psychological Torture/Character assassination and that’s exactly what Andy, Julian Assange and many others are target of.

I would just like to end with a word of incentive to Andy. Keep strong man and keep being open/documenting all the tactics employed against you and other. Best way to fight darkness is with light. Keep strong man.

JonKnowsNothing January 9, 2021 10:58 AM


re:No speech should ever be banned; free speech is part of a free people.

This is not true in the USA. We have “free speech” within limits. The US Supreme Court (SCOTUS) has on many occasions ruled that “free speech” is not “unlimited speech”.

Additionally, the USA does have laws about “advocating the overthrow of the government”. Pretty much every country has such laws. These laws have also been well tested and the laws apply to both Speech and Physical activities.

Add to this, are specific laws that apply to anyone holding public office. There are additional constraints both to speech and physical actions.

re:Bad ideas or comments need to be countered with good ideas only

Noam Chomsky is the recognized expert of this area. Bad or Good ideas are rejected regularly depending on which way you “see” the idea presented. Ideas are thoughts or concepts. Discussions are reviews these thoughts.

There are some ideas that are rejected outright by governments, political parties, organizations and individuals. This doesn’t mean the idea is “good or bad” it means that the idea does not “favor” those groups.

When governments, ad agencies, high tech promote a particular view this is called “propaganda” and the arguments are selected to score points with a particular supporting section of the population.

BREXIT is a particularly extreme example of a long term propaganda process that has been successful in achieving the primary stated goal. No one knows if it will achieve any other of the stated goals but it’s already certain one goal did not happen: “£350 million a week for public services” did not happen and the money did not go to support their Health Service.

Within the range of competing ideas, there is also the gatekeeper of “access”. What gets reported, where and why. With the decline of printed newspapers and internet funnel-tunnel which pushes people into more restricted circular connections, there is an amplification of self-confirming views. If all you read, listen to, watch are the same propaganda concepts these become more amplified as the rate of exchange increases.

The USA has had many groups like the ones we saw in Washington D.C..There is a “romantic” view revolving many of our National Myths. Unfortunately, some people are unable to determine where fantasy stops and reality starts. Propaganda blurs the lines.

SCOTUS approved Citizens United which allows those with more dollars to buy more access to the Market Place of Ideas. The teeter has tottered to such an extent that competing voices have little access unless they also obtain enough dollars to buy similar access. With the funnel-tunnel of the internet, targeted access is much easier and propaganda can be directed to those most receptive to a particular view.

Facebook is a success not so much because it provides a market place to exchange ideas, but because the market is manipulated by psychologically designed practices to induce continuous use and continuous revenue.

All high tech companies do this. They have all taken up the mantel of propaganda publishing because it makes money for them.

It’s not about the ideas, It’s about the money.

President Trump threatened the money stream. This is why he has been sidelined.

His ideas are not new and they are not his either.

John Yoo will likely walk away, back to his position at a Respected University. M. Yoo should have been dealt with long ago but he was useful and provided legal cover for ideas already determined to be illegal and abhorrent and allowed reactivation of “prohibited by law” practices. M. Yoo provided the methods and legal “thinking” then, and he provided the legal thinking now.

Presidents, like Kings, Queens and Dictators are all captive to their advisors. They all have idiosyncrasies which sycophants, hangers on and manipulators use for their own personal agendas and profits.

M. Yoo provided “The unitary executive theory” as the fantasy to someone who has difficulty with reality.

It’s not a free market, it never was. It’s not free speech, it never was.
It’s controlled markets and controlled speech.

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Bob January 9, 2021 11:00 AM

@Winter & @Sancho_P
I think you said it best – “It’s wrong to suppress the voice, you have to silence the man.”

When the ovens are lit, and the people are being forced in, we can rest assured that only the “sub-human”, under-a-rock-living, insects should be exterminated. And we can rationalize this using linguists that really understand what the messages are!

JonKnowsNothing January 9, 2021 11:15 AM

@Nick Levinson

re: If you’re a car company’s employee and you’re in their factory, you don’t have a right to say the cars are all lousy and the company should go out of business; you can be fired for disloyalty and a court won’t protect you.

In California, USA this is not the case. California passed “At Will” employment many years ago. An employer does not need an “excuse” to fire anyone. Employees are not required to give 2 weeks notice either.

In Silicon Valley they can and do, tell employees to pack their desks and leave by end of day or sooner and set Security Guards to watch you pack up. They can also “escort you off the premises” immediately and pack your stuff for you which you will be allowed to pick up in a few days.

Employees don’t often leave without notice because it looks bad on their Linked-In profiles or gets them on the private black-lists that float around different industries. Employees who “down tools” are often labeled by various epithets, ignoring the legal “At Will” ability to stop at any time.

Loyalty has nothing to do with it, in California.

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In U.S. labor law, at-will employment is an employer’s ability to dismiss an employee for any reason (that is, without having to establish “just cause” for termination), and without warning,[1] as long as the reason is not illegal (e.g. firing because of the employee’s race, religion or sexuality). When an employee is acknowledged as being hired “at will,” courts deny the employee any claim for loss resulting from the dismissal. The rule is justified by its proponents on the basis that an employee may be similarly entitled to leave his or her job without reason or warning.

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JonKnowsNothing January 9, 2021 12:04 PM

@David Rudling

Actuaries determine Life Tables and other statistics, which are used by many governments, science and health organizations. They are very detailed and location specific.

They are important in determining many government economic policies and determine future economic goals or incentives.

What will be interesting is how these tables will alter over the duration of the pandemic and the global economic fallout.

The new N501/B117/South African COVID-19 variants infect 20yo and under, much more than D614G variant.

D614G affects older people more.
N501 affects younger people more.

The actuarial tables will change a lot by mid-year.

  • D614G replaced the original COVID-19 virus and is the one that spread globally. N501 variants are now replacing D614G and will become the global variant.
  • Only countries that maintain extreme and rigorous quarantine border controls have a chance to keep N501 from over running their countries. Current report have shown 10-14 day quarantine is not sufficient in keeping N501 outside the borders. People are testing positive to N501 many days after leaving quarantine.
  • Quarantine testing protocols vary. Some quarantine systems do not require a negative test before exiting if the person spent the full required number of days in isolation. These rules only work for Pre-symptomatic persons and ignores true Asymptomatic carriers who never get sick but are contagious.
  • N501 virus has many changes not yet understood or documented. There are other odd aspects being noted as it spreads. More studies needed.
  • Life Tables are a significant aspect in TRIAGE/CRISIS CARE/CARE RATIONING.

Faustus January 9, 2021 12:15 PM

I have a hard time seeing a big difference between the Capitol riot and the “BLM” inspired riots earlier.

I put BLM in quotes because I do not hold the movement to protect black people from police violence responsible for the riots in their name.

I both cases people were hyped up over political issues. In one case the treatment of black people, in the other case electoral integrity.

In both cases the protests devolved into riots that had little to do with the original legitimate concerns.

(I do think election integrity is a real concern. Our voting systems do not seem to be auditable against all insider attacks. And the media introducing censorship in the midst of an election definitely hobbled one side in an unprecedented manner. And I know personally and from contact with police officers that black people are often treated very aggressively and unfairly.)

In both cases innocent people were hurt. And some less than innocents were hurt.

In both cases some polticians and media signalled in advance that a little violence might be justified.

In the aftermath, the Republicans pretty unanimously decried the violence.

Democrats and the media often justified the “BLM” related violence.

I personally hold the media largely responsible for the capitol violence, although the individual actors remain personally accountable for their stupidity. By treating the earlier left violence as justified and even laudable, they gave some dim bulbs on the right the idea that their violence would be similarly welcomed and justified, at least by their own media and Republicans in general. This was not the case.

The capitol has seen violence before. Usually left wing: Puerta Rican nationalists shot members. The Weather Underground set off bombs. In the area of the Capitol, “BLM” related riots set parts of the city on fire in the last few years. The Lincoln Memorial and others were vandalized.

A question stands out:

Is political violence wrong? Or is only wrong if you disagree with the politics of the perpetrators?

The answer to this question is the choice between evolving democracy and chaos.

Winter January 9, 2021 1:00 PM

“I have a hard time seeing a big difference between the Capitol riot and the “BLM” inspired riots earlier.”

It is a special person who cannot see the difference between street protests and a violent attempt to prevent the lawfully elected president to be confirmed in parliament.

Hot, the latter is called a coup d’etat and is high treason.

JonKnowsNothing January 9, 2021 1:19 PM


re: [BLM vs Trumpists]… both cases people were hyped up over political issues. In one case the treatment of black people, in the other case electoral integrity.

  • The treatment of BAME is not “political” it’s physical.
  • The concerns of Trumpists is a denial of fact.

There are a number of organizations running side-by-side images of BLM and Trumpists activities in Washington D.C. It’s plain to see, standing there on the steps of federal buildings.

The USA has a very well defined process for evolving democracy.
It’s called ELECTIONS.
It happens every 2 years. That’s TWO as in 1 + 1.

Legally, ANYONE is allowed to participate. (1)

At the local level, it’s much easier to participate and make actual changes in the ground you stand on. You don’t need a Big Dog to bark for you either.

It’s not so much fun to clean the streets, pick up the garbage, repair the schools, provide for the health of the locals, house the homeless and feed the poor, provide for the general well being of the community, to make sure that orderly access does not impede freedom of access.

It’s not so fun to listen to the citizens complaining about what the citizens across the street are doing. It’s not that much fun to listen to them complain that X is getting more than Y. And it’s not easy to listen to and explain the Laws, as enacted by the people complaining.

The USA has a very well defined process for this too.
It’s called ELECTIONS.
Locally it happens much more often than a 2 year cycle.

Additionally, local city councils have regular Public Open Meetings. You can get up and have your 5 minutes of fame, formatting your ideas and concepts that Go On The Record. Put in your 2 cents. Lots of folks do it. Lots of folks do it regularly. Try it, you might like it.

It’s a well defined process too.

1, Unfortunately some SCOTUS rulings and other impediments have been placed so that “Anyone” cannot participate easily. You have to join a Big Dog and you have to do Big Dog stuff and you have to do what the Big Dog says. Sometimes ANYONE escapes, and wins outside the controls of the Big Dogs.

Czerno January 9, 2021 1:27 PM

Covid vaccine : H.M. the Queen of England and her Consort had an injection today, according to Press reports. I have searched and couldn’t learn if their Graces received the one from Oxford or else the Pfizer-BioNtech frankenvaccine, Maybe one of our British regulars will know for sure?

Clive Robinson January 9, 2021 2:15 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm, ALL,

Anyone have any idea how that magically could happen?

It’s a question that has three parts in any answer,

1, Finance.
2, Technical.
3, Politics.

As I’ve mentioned befor with “defence spending” it is in effect a curve with a lot of hysteresis and unknown points of inflection. Or put more simply “You only know when you’ve spent to little, because a ways down the time line you are attacked”.

Even when the attackers are rational actors the lack of perfect knowledge makes the actual curve indeterminate, as does unforseen andvances in technology.

On the technical front capabilities tend to increase with time and they tend to favour the attacker not the defender. The likes of insecure very high bandwidth IoT devices gave attackers the ability to block the entry bandwidth of any site and many service providers. Whilst there are ways to deal with this they all break the assumptions on which the Internet was based. The fact that they still happen can be seen as a consequence of the gulf war and the fact that Iraq’s C2 systems survived where modern networks can only fail. It is possible to add robustness by upgrading the Border Gateway Protocols (BGP) which is something long over due. However politically such changes would not be popular as SigInt agencies of all colours find the weakneses in BGP usefull. Thus any attempts at more robust protocols are going to be got at by the usuall Five-Eyes “tag teams” on international standards bodies who will put in backdoors for “health and safety” reasons in voice/video communications. Technical backdoors that effect the standards and weaken the roots of trust such as the NOBUS digital random number generator rammed through NIST that gave the game away. Then there are attacks on protocols by introducing incompatibilities that require methods like fallback / degrade for the protocols to interwork, which make MITM attacks oh so much easier. Then attacks on implementations such that what appears secure in theory is in practice due to the way people implement things not secure at all due to various types of side channel that leak privileged information to the network. This little trick the NSA pulked on NIST with the way they rigged the AES contest. Whilst AES is under current theory very secure “for data at rest” it’s structure positively encorages insecure programming practices that open up glaring time based covert channels. By emphasising “speed contests” and all source code available the NSA new darn well that bad code would be produced and that because it was “fast” it would get put in just about every product… With the result there are a lot of on-line “connected” AES syetems that are grossly insecure.

But politics works at many levels from International down through national, regional, organisational, organisational entity through personal and “influencers” of various forms some less visable than others.

A prominant organisation with clear political bias is always going to be a political target. Less obvious is any organisation in a given market can be seen as a minow or a shark. The first unwriten rule of Capatilism is “Profit comes from Chaos” thus inflicting chaos on an organisation opens up profit potential.

But such profit does not have to be directly fiscal in origin. The US have a lot of “Religion for Profit” ministries with their own broadcasting networks. It does not take an unbiased observer long to realise that such organisation are using monies they raise not just for grand lifestyles for “the elders” but more recently more and more overt political manipulation.

Thus “pick your choice of attacker” as no mater who was responsable they were probably not “The Directing Mind”. Modern Directing minds rarely have direct involvment the Koch Brothers make but one of many examples to study in this respect. That is things are orchestrated through others call them lobbyists, intermediaries, cut outs, useful idiots or fall guys, the purpose is to maintain not just distance but often to hide the true intent of the Directing Minds objectives, that can be the opposit of what the front line actors actually think they are.

But one point to note, the short term thinking of corporate executives are a guarenteed way to ensure that the organisation gets attacked, their attitude is whilst physical security is a cost to bare as a necessary part of doing business, information security is a hinderance to profit, not just directly in terms of direct cost of staff and systems, but also in what the likes of mantra trained MBA’s etc believe are “lost opportunity costs”. This is because InfoSec is seen as a barrier to the MBA’s etcetera extreamly blinkerd vision. They might say they are “Mission oriented” the reality is they are sociopaths who care not a jot for the consequences of their actions as long as they have moved on when the brown stuff hits the fan as it almost always will do…

The only reason they get away with it is that the organisations they are actually damaging are “In a target rich environment” thus in the short term probability works in their favour…

So you will find the answer you seek in the above, provided you can get an objective look… Which is the last thing either the attackers or the defenders managment want, which is why “Ransomware is booming” and more and more attackers are entering what is in effect an “easy money game” as the low hanging but plump and ripe for picking targets currently out number the attackers. But as that changes and it will the probability will drop and those sociopaths will find that the time intervals will reduce to the point shoet term thinking will be longer than average attack time…

Faustus January 9, 2021 2:29 PM

@Winter @Jon

It sounds like you can’t articulate a distinction between the capitol riots and the “BLM” associated riots. “Well, it’s obvious!” is not the answer of a serious person.

The idea that the capital riot was an attempt at a coup makes as much sense as saying that a “BLM” inspired riot was an attempt to kill all police.

The capitol riot was a protest about the vote so it went to where the vote was being processed in the way that many BLM protests went to police stations.

The rioters had control of the capitol. They largely won. But they didn’t try to stay in place to continue blocking voting. They were there to protest. They in no way were prepared to do anything more.

Does anybody really believe the transparent propaganda about an insurrection? Are people going to join politicians in pervasive cynical lies?

Based on the discussion in this group I think there is plenty of reason to fear that voting can be tampered with. It is a concern that Democrats have brought up before:

Does anybody think that our voting system IS secure, in general? My impression is that the answer is no. I really hope people try to increase security so voters will be confident in future results.

Jon, your extended diatribe against protests applies to the BLM as much as the right. I myself find protests tedious as people descend into synchronized oversimplification. But they are a constitutional right, and they seem to be a popular way of airing grievances.

Dancing On Thin Ice January 9, 2021 3:15 PM

Social media companies took action this week on actually removing content.

It is very likely that officials will revist Section 230.
Completely eliminating protections will favor a few huge platforms that have more resouces to police.
Newer ones as well as comment sections like this may disappear.

So far, big social media’s weakly worded caution lables have been met with calls of censorship.
Their pre-emptive action this week in response to violations of their own rules they have ignored for years may have been to mitigate being required to take a more active role.

Up until now, testimony on the rule has centered around tech CEOs more interested in their bottom line.
What suggestions from those in the trenches of what can be done to modify the statue to strike a balance between censorship and accountabiity?
I’m hopeful the new administration will get some advice from Andrew Yang (Although he also was a CEO.)

Clive Robinson January 9, 2021 3:17 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing, David Rudling, ALL,

The new N501/B117/South African COVID-19 variants infect 20yo and under, much more than D614G variant.

As I’ve mentioned before I’ve been given quite a bit of anecdotal evidence of this.

Also that it is far from surprising.

We have restricted older people that were the target for D614G varient thus it had trouble finding hosts and was thus in decline.

The B. varient discovered in Kent UK[1] has developed to favour children. The reason is simple due to “education” and the percieved nature of COVID from D614G children were basically exempt from segregation and quarantine. Thus the B. varient had easy access to hosts.

People might have wondered why I refered to the policies as turning children into “Granny Killers”, well now you have one all to predictable result, one of several that will appear unless the idiots in charge especially The WHO wake the ****up and stop playing stupid politics.

This is without doubt a very clear case of “Evolution in Progress” and there are several more things that people shouls realise…

The most important of which is that a race has started between vaccination and mutation…

If we are slow to vaccinate and we very surely are, then SARS-CoV-2 will mutate around the vaccines…

Something people realy should get their heads around and fairly quickly. Because we know from other winter seasonal diseases it will mutate, and when it does it will almost certainly become a fixture in life such as flu, or the common colds or pneumonia. Which can only have three outcomes,

1, Extinction level event.
2, Permanent change to human DNA/epigenetic make up.
3, With luck a new vaccine to stop the first two events

There are no plucky runners up in this race, so playing politics such as France most certainly is and both the FDA and EDA are giving full signs of is not an option.

If people do not like my reasoning or the logic behind it feal free to sing out with your own reasoning based on logic. And please no “God/Science will provide” reasoning “faith” is neither valid reasoning or logic.

[1] The UK with a population of ~68million does 45% of the genotype testing in the world by numbers of tests. Which with a world population that was heading for ~9billion tells you something important. It does not matter where a varient occures if it travels internationaly the place it is most probable it is going to be discovered by a very very long way is the UK. The fact it was discovered in Kent where much international travel arives from Europe by vehicle and from all the way back to China through Russia, Asia, Middle East, East Europe, Central Europe and Western Europe and quickly mixes with the population for Fuel, Food and other “sustenance” tells you why the probability is it was an “import” not “home grown”. The reality by numbers suggest it might well have originated in the US arived somewhere east of the UK and was spreading since before Sept 2020, when it was first detected in the UK in Kent. The fact it then followed the main lorry driving routes up into the West North West of the UK towards Birmingham and then spread out sideways, should tell the people at both The WHO and Politicians in general a very important message… Which so far is being ignored.

Clive Robinson January 9, 2021 4:23 PM

@ Bob,

People will never know the truth when they gleefully call for censorship.


Are you sure on that?

So, how about someone telling a child to point a gun at someone and squeeze the trigger?

Is that the free speach you think is fine?

Because that happens all the time in “gang culture” almost as an initiation ceremony. But mainly because the child in legal theory is not capable of assuming legal responsability for the crime thus they don’t get prosecuted…

JonKnowsNothing January 9, 2021 4:35 PM

@ Nick Levinson

re: we don’t disagree on the At Will Law (in California)

Loyalty is not required, it’s not a defense in court in California. Loyalty to an employer or product or field has no standing in the law here.

You can you fire someone but you do not need to state or provide any reasons for doing so, in California. Stating you are firing some for X,Y,Z is unadvised because you might trip over an item on the “forbidden list”.

In California, no lawyer will advise you to state a ground unless queried by an agency, such as the unemployment benefits department. They have a slightly different list and if an employer wishes to challenge the former-worker’s application for benefits (the funds which are marked against a pool collected from the employer in taxes) the employer must state their objection. Loyalty is not a valid objection.

In some countries loyalty is required. Some people have to bow, kowtow, bend the knee, salute, take their hats off, stand at attention, pull a forelock, look away, pound their chest, cheer, or throw roses when the boss goes by.

Not in California.

Bob January 9, 2021 6:34 PM


I see speech much the same way I see a weapon like a firearm. In the hands of a good person it is wielded as a shield of protection, recreation, or a general force for good. In the hands of a murderer, it is used to commit an atrocity, and an act of evil. Banning the firearm will not change the heart of man, for he will choose another item to use as a weapon if he acts on his dark heart. There are many things that have corroded men, and the speech and hate that comes out of many is vile. Name calling, and putting people down is beneath all of us, and Clive, I have seen your thoughtful posts over the year and know it is beneath you too. We crawl before we learn to walk or run, and now is the time that each of us should be extending care and understanding and not closing down pathways of communication.

Based on what I have seen here and elsewhere, I imagine that most people are still looking for a man-made solutions to hate, as over the centuries they have. I imagine that my perspective is likely in the minority.

Cheers, and happy new year to you, and the folks on this forum. Bruce; it is nice to have discourse here without you deleting the posts so far… Please don’t talk with the legal departments of the the tech elites. 😀

Anders January 9, 2021 6:36 PM


If you have wasp nest in your garden, the best
way to resolve the situation is with vacuum cleaner.
Works every time 🙂

SpaceLifeForm January 9, 2021 6:44 PM

5 Years Ago Today

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SpaceLifeForm January 9, 2021 6:59 PM

@ Clive

Re faux

It was rhetorical question. But I know you know that. So, I thank you for your dissertation for future readers.

Your PhD is in the mail via USPS.

Bob January 9, 2021 7:17 PM


Link to the declaration of independence.

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SpaceLifeForm January 9, 2021 7:21 PM

@ Anders

My internet connected smart vacuum is down due to DDoS. I’m confused. Nevermind, I’ll ask someone on Parler. There are smart people there. They will know what to do.

Something, something, about self-dox.

It’s so confusing.

JonKnowsNothing January 9, 2021 10:11 PM


re: the declaration of independence.

You are no doubt aware, that the declaration of independence is not law and it is not part of any legal system created since its signing. It is a statement of intent.

The declaration says many things, many of them are untrue. They were untrue then and they are untrue now.

Your god is not the only god and your view that the foundation of the USA is based on a god, particularly your version of god, is slightly faulty.

Keep digging backwards I’m sure you will find some more interesting bits.

To find the foundations you need to find out what you didn’t learn in school, reading the:

  approved texts, vetted by approved views, approved curriculum
  as defined and approved by parents, who don’t particularly like it
  when you ask “WHY?”.

ymmv I’m sure you will have a good trip none the less.

SpaceLifeForm January 9, 2021 10:24 PM

@ Clive

Fresh parchment. But, BOD disagreement over 1149 or 2549.

May have to transmit via alternate channel. hiccups ://en[.]

May require stockholder vote.

Your bandwidth may not vary.

Nick Levinson January 9, 2021 11:26 PM

@Clive Robinson:

The thesis that U.S. for-profit corporations owe their primary duty to shareholders, long and widely believed, has been refuted in a short book by a law professor in the last few years; I don’t know about other nations. According to that author (name and book title forgotten), the shareholder-first argument came mainly from economists, not lawyers, and the economists misunderstood the law. They based it on one case that was decided by a Michigan state court, but most major corporations are incorporated in Delaware, thus the case does not apply to them and Delaware does not have that law. Nor does the case say what the economists thought it said even for Michigan corporations. Someone had bought stock in Ford’s car company and planned to use the dividends to build a competing car. So, Ford decided not to pay him dividends. Since, according to the author, this was a case not of all shareholders’ rights but of minority shareholders’ rights, I think what happened was that the Ford family was still going to get dividends but the competitor would not. The author pointed out that a corporation can agree to a shareholder-first obligation in its charter or similar binding document but higher law does not require it. It’s also good business practice; giving no advantage to your investors usually gains little in subsequent investment, but that’s a business decision, not a legal requirement.

On section 230: Imagine one Mafiosi writing a letter to another proposing to kill a random person for fun, one flies to meet the other, one emails a plan to the other to rob a bank and kill someone and they do so, and they go to a hotel room to count the loot, wash their bloody clothes, and brag in the lobby, should we argue that the Postal Service, an airline, an email service provider, a phone company, and the hotel be liable for the Mafia’s acts (even alongside the criminals)? In national politics, the argument won’t get far. Maybe social platforms look politically relatively weak, but many email service providers and hotels are probably even weaker, and yet the argument has not much arisen.

@xcv & @Clive Robinson: I hope the ACLU is not arguing that the law requires the platforms to give equal access, and I’m not sure it is. If it’s not, the argument, coming from the ACLU as a litigator testing law, doesn’t have much weight. If it is, it’s problematic. Does an anti-minority website have the right to ban my pro-diversity views? Yes.

lurker January 9, 2021 11:49 PM


1, Extinction level event.
2, Permanent change to human DNA/epigenetic make up.
3, With luck a new vaccine to stop the first two events

As a devout fence-sitter I sometimes have difficulty drawing such stark conclusions. So for 1, above if, and it’s a big wobbly if, there was political will to do it, the virus could become extinct. But the reality surrounding us demonstrates a marked lack of political will to do anything sensible, so it’s us to become extinct? Think on’t…

Goat January 10, 2021 12:14 AM

I had to purchase DRM restricted classes for my studies, It’s all about tradeoffs they say..

@All,this made me think if I was a teacher what would be the way out for me. What should I do to retain my revenue while not using DRM?

The answer many give is to make it free, but that leads to populists making a lot(in ad revenue) and others left feeling cheated.

Now I am a practical person so I won’t say that they shouldn’t have to earn this much, and this question pretty much extends to artists and the like.

While I know that DRM software comes with a lot of insecurity, proprietary lockins and a host of other problems.

JonKnowsNothing January 10, 2021 12:43 AM

@Nick Levinson

re: The thesis that U.S. for-profit corporations owe their primary duty to shareholders

Corporations owe their duty to their shareholders does in part come from economic theory. However, the legal end comes from the SEC, IRS and GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles).

If you are able to overthrow these entities and get them to restate that the duty of corporations is not to their shareholders, nor to the trading of stocks in market exchanges, nor to providing traceable transactions to the IRS, there are quite a few people who would be wildly cheering you on.

You could start with the case of Autonomy… it touches on all your points. There’s 8.8B USD involved, shareholder suits, SEC, IRS, fraud claims, due diligence failures and much more on the table.

There are various assertions about what such a change would bring to the USA and you had best have some deep pockets to wing your project to the Supreme Court on every possible challenge. Wall Street will not be amused.

It should be noted that this definition is for the USA. There are some countries where the rules are already: None of the Above, much as you describe.

ht tps://
ht tps://
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(url fractured to prevent autorun)

Goat January 10, 2021 1:00 AM

Addendum to my DRM Q: What can be the solution? Can cryptography enable some less draconion way around the issue?

Clive Robinson January 10, 2021 1:09 AM

@ Nick Levinson,

The case was the Dodge brothers against Henry Ford. In essence Henry Ford decided that paying dividends to people who were his competitors was a bad idea so he did not.

The brothers felt they were being cheated and took action. They basically had to show two things,

1, There was a surplus.
2, There was “bad faith”

Henry Ford’s public comments made both those points sufficiently plain that the judge had little choice but to go against Henry Ford.

There have been other cases since (quite a number) and they pretty much turn not on showing bad faith, but the company showing reasonable reasons for their actions, with quite some leeway given on what “shareholder maximization” means (think short and long term returns as being just one of many trades).

More than one academic has pointed out that a company is in reality the product of it’s contracts. Whilst these contracts may differ they almost never indicate any other action than maximizing shareholder value at some point in time. Thus the reason for a company to exist is the legal requirment to maximize shareholder value.

But at the end of the day the shareholders are the residual claiments in the company and as their risk is the highest they get voting rights. Thus unless something extraordinary is happening shareholders own interests are best satisfied by voting for maximising shareholder value in some form, most usually by payment of dividends. Thus the question then disolves into terms of when, for how much, and at what risk. All of which you would think would show a broad set of interests. But it rarely does, and it’s nearly always short term maximization with no interest in future existance of the company etc.

There are several reasons academics in law suggest not teaching Dodge-v-Ford but many indicate that “bad faith” is to subjective and difficult to prove. So why keep teaching it, some put it down to tradition, others due to the simplicity it gives to explain the function of a company. Others in effect claim whimsy.

Take your pick as to which reason you like / prefere.

Nick Levinson January 10, 2021 2:13 AM

@SpaceLifeForm: I don’t remember the name, but I doubt he’s the one. The plan was not to make just car parts but entire cars. Also, I don’t rely on Wikipedia.


My claim does not go that far. They have some duty to shareholders, but not primarily to shareholders. They have some duties affecting trading of their stock, such as in statements they make about their future prospects. The traceability of transactions has nothing to do with what I was saying. Accounting principles do not specify that they must pay dividends rather than wages but how to account. For example, a company may set up a reserve fund without saying why. If they have to choose between paying dividends and debts, debts come first, even if that means no dividends will be paid. They may opt to invest in research even if that means the stock price does not soar.

I don’t rely on Wikipedia but I’ll take its word arguendo here. The Autonomy case is off the point I was making. Fraud remains illegal. The company had duties to its suitor, such as not to misrepresent certain data about itself. The subsidiary had duties to its parent. And once it became a subsidiary the parent could impose a policy of profit maximization, which usually means doing so in certain areas where the principle seems to have been weak or absent earlier compared to other areas. Those points are separate from what I said about shareholder primacy. To clarify: Corporations still have duties to shareholders; the misunderstood Michigan case did not wipe out all duties but made clear that minority shareholders had rights, and they still do, and the inapplicability of Michigan law to Delaware corporations does not leave corporations outside of state law, never mind Federal law. Delaware may be a nice place to incorporate, but I doubt it allows fraud.

@Clive Robinson:

Being the product of contracts so as to maximize profit does not mean that the legal duty of a for-profit corporation is to maximize profit any more than it means that its duty is to fulfill contracts even if it has to be permanently in debt to do so. It has to fulfill contracts but can go bankrupt and terminate if it has too much debt. It will usually want to maximize profit in order to improve shareholder value and attract more investment and other capital. But some businesses don’t borrow money even though they could; yet you can’t sue them for a failure to borrow simply because they could have made more profit had they done so.

I’m not sure shareholders’ risk is the highest, if you’re comparing to all other stakeholders. An employee who operates hazardous machinery and could suffer grievous lifelong injury with high out-of-pocket costs may have more risk than an owner with limited liability (as when a corporation owns another). Shareholders with the right class of instrument are owners; that’s why they get voting rights. That is reflected in board composition and the board chooses the CEO who chooses people below, and through that chain the profit motive is passed along. We hear often of short-term interests and they often dominate but major companies and their boards and owners usually do have an interest in long corporate lives, precisely because that usually helps profitability. A vendor likes knowing that a company has been around a while, as that it implies it pays its bills, which expands the choice of vendors, improving the company’s economic capabilities, helping boost profits.

If the Dodge case is the one and if it’s still useful to teach it, it might be as an example of the principle, but if that leads graduates to believe that the Michigan case is more than persuasive but is binding precedent across the nation, they err. Economists do valuable services, but representing clients in court is not usually one of them.

Goat January 10, 2021 2:23 AM

@Nick re:” I don’t rely on Wikipedia.”

Wikipedia isnt a source, it has citations that you have to rely or deny. Though many of them are good I would agree that biased media often pollutes the articles.

Nick Levinson January 10, 2021 2:57 AM

@Goat: Yes; I chose not to spend time following the citations or looking for other sources. Whether media bias is the problem is an open question; in the sense meant by Trump’s followers and some others, I don’t believe the media are that bad and think many of the mainstream media and some specialized media are very good, often excellent. Wikipedia says of itself that it is not a reliable source and says the same of any user-editable source (, thus my caution.

@JonKnowsNothing: To distinguish: A Delaware corporation sometimes has to obey a Michigan law; for example, it might have to pay a tax on Michigan real estate. But not all Michigan law applies out of state, absent nexus.

Lawrence January 10, 2021 2:57 AM


I’m in NZ so if it is a geo-location issue it isn’t aimed at everyone outside the US. Does this link work for you?

If so go Education/Terrorist Groups/
click on Violent Far Right Terrorism them the submit button. The paper is on page 2.

Following the cricket?

JonKnowsNothing January 10, 2021 4:01 AM

@Nick Levinson

re:Delaware corporation

Corporate Taxation, Sales Taxes, Value Added Tax (VAT) and more sub and local taxes than most people see on their property tax statement, can be part of any corporation’s legal requirement for filings and to the IRS.

Corporations that are not listed on the stock exchanges have fewer rules for disclosure and primarily must comply with IRS state and federal rules as applied in their state of incorporation and the states in which they do business.

Somethings may be taxable and somethings are not.

If you are following BREXIT you might notice a complex system of taxation that now doubles up the requirements for filings. In addition, new demands on sharing of Global Wealth are beginning to gain traction and early views are that international corporations will be complying with tax rules in every country in which they do business without bypassing local rules or using tax haven redirection ones. For more gusto, the off-shoring of assets in hidden structure tax dodge havens is getting more scrutiny as is the popular dodge of buying extensive and expensive real estate that is neither rented nor lived in.

Whether an entity has to file and disclose their business depends on the business. The Pentagon rarely discloses much other than the gross price. The USA Black Budget is never disclosed willingly to the Citizens of the USA. People using CenterLink type systems are required to provide up to 30 years of back pay stubs to avoid being auto-booted off the system (Robodebt).

Separate from Taxation Issue and Separate from Corporate Responsibility to Shareholders in the USA every state has the right to enact their own laws. Michigan, Delaware, California are all different. They may have similarities but these are separate courts, and rules. Every state also has their own Tax Codes and Enforcement requirements. GAAP has a lot to do with that and provides the evidence of compliance.

Goat January 10, 2021 4:33 AM

@Lawrence Thankyou probably the server was temporarily down or I just copied and typed wrong twice. Both links are working now.

re:Following the cricket?
Not really..

Winter January 10, 2021 9:03 AM

It seems Parler will be kicked off AWS:
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People will be all in arms (pun intended) about their social media speech being silenced. But if you are planning an armed rebellion, and are actually on record for “returning with guns” to the parliament, you should not be surprised.

Nobody is legally required to help you start an armed rebellion in general, or and armed rebellion against a lost election.

If you want to start an armed rebellion, you literally are on your own.

PS: Starting an armed revolution without actual support by heavy guns and planes is foolish.

Clive Robinson January 10, 2021 9:27 AM

@ JonKnowsNothing, MarkH, David Rudling, Winter, ALL,

The anecdotal evidence about the young being increasingly infected by SARS2 and taking back to parents etc.

Put simply the UK Intensive Therapy/Care Units are maxed out even compared to the first wave. The most obvious problem is a lack of trained staff. In part because the numbers were not there to start with but due to stress / illness / etc the staff there are, are burning out and arr not available (I can not imagine just how harrowing such work can be as well as the increased arduousness die to patient numbers).

The average age of ITU patiants has dropped to a little under sixty and the trend is still downward. Thus those in their 40s and 50s are increasingly susceptible on top of the 55% increase of susceptiblity of the B. varient.

Other things to note, the UK ITU death rate is around 3 in 10 and 3 out of 4 survivors of ICU are longterm disabled due to various factors such as muscle wastage, reduced lung function and degraded functions in other organs.

Hopefully many will recover but the older you are the harder it is to regain muscle mass, which is essential not just for movment but protecting and supporting other parts of the body. So if you fall which is more likely anyway due to loss of strength/support the more damage you are likely to do. Worse the longer that will take to heal as the bodies recovery processes are equally as compromised. So it’s a tripple whamy.

If you needed an excuse to get fitter this year then I’m of the view an ounce of prevention now is worth a hundred weight of cure later…

Apparently the CDC has released figures indicating 6 out of 10 people are infected by asymptomatic or presymptomatic people. If they move around with the new varient then their chance of being a super spreader is significantly increased… It’s a case of “The enemy you can not see” unlike SARS1, those IR temprature tests do not pick up asyptomatic or presymptomatic infection carriers.

Thus the only sensible defence is to assume everyone is the enemy and defend appropriately.

Especially as there is some evidence that 10day hard quarantine has failed with the new variant. So back to 14 or maybe even 21 day quarantine or harder issolation is required.

Whilst “Quarantine Hotels” may not be “floating petri dishes” like the cruise ships, there is now the possability that the new variation may just turn them into “petri dishes” anyway due to incresed infectivity. And for similar reasons as the cruise ships (lack of ventilation common cleaning/serving/cooking staff).

Also assume under a simplistic first order approximation that,

1, 2m seperation should now be 2.5m or a little over 8ft.

2, The effective still air suspension infection times have gone up from 30min to 45min.

3, Infection contact time of 10min is now down to 6min.

As a minimum back of an envelope second order calculation suggest that being more cautious is advisable, but needs further work due to nonlinear effects.

Winter January 10, 2021 9:39 AM

This translates into “stay away from other people”.

And go out walking a lot, alone. Try to stay sane until you get vaccinated.

Clive Robinson January 10, 2021 10:07 AM

@ Winter,

It apears that several people do not realise that “Cloud Providers” are by definition privately oened spaces so can not be assumed to be “Public Town Squares”.

Even though the cloud providers are in part protected by §230, section §230 says it can not override federal legislation…

So as arguably as what may well be the FBI’s most used add on of the felony of conspiracy has happened, and the cloud providers, now their attention has been drawn to it, have no real choice…

So the answer to “Who closed down Parler?” is effectively “Lin Wood”…

The rest of the nonsense she and others are spouting is “Sound bite dressing”.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 10, 2021 10:14 AM

@ Clive, JonKnowsNothing, SpaceLifeForm, the usual suspects,

I hear you, the best we can expect that those for whom truth is a hindrance, the expectation that somehow buffoonery equates to achievement, makes apparent, the folly.

Goat January 10, 2021 10:20 AM

Re:”I don’t believe the media are that bad and think many of the mainstream media and some specialized media are very good”

@Nick, media articles are often quite good but I have seen them cited for technical details on wikipedia, that is my concern. Trumpery(pun intended) provides its own definition of fake news, they would probably cite tweets(or parleys ?)

Anders January 10, 2021 10:23 AM


Very interesting development.
Is Russian VKontakte accessible in US?
Maybe Putin offers its access to Trump?

Bob January 10, 2021 10:35 AM

There are many words, but I see very little grace, patience, love, and understanding extended here to our brethren. Evil acts are plainly being welcomed and suggested “for the good of the people”, by those that it is obvious feel they are more intelligent and better, and not equal to other men. May we truly all be shown mercy.

— Job 28:28 “And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord is wisdom, and to depart from evil is understanding.”

Winter January 10, 2021 11:04 AM

“There are many words, but I see very little grace, patience, love, and understanding extended here to our brethren.”

I do not see much need to extend grace etc to people who want to prevent the lawfully elected president to take office by all means, guns included.

Also my empathy for people who want to deny the majority of the population their rights to fair elections based on fairy tales and fabrications is very limited.

Winter January 10, 2021 11:31 AM

“Maybe Putin offers its access to Trump?”

I suspect that protests might spill over to Russian people appreciating that protesting against your leader might be effective. That is not something the Kremlin would stimulate.

But some bulletproof hosting solution for Parker or a similar provider in Russia with some official deniability is certainly likely. Surely, some rich sponsors could be found somewhere.

Nick Levinson January 10, 2021 11:32 AM


On the essence of what I was saying, I don’t think we disagree. My statement was narrower than you may originally have thought. A wide range of legal obligations remain despite the limitations of that case law and new ones may arise.

The Pentagon is a government agency, not per se a business, and comes under different rules. Many of its contractors are businesses; they’re different from the military itself, even if they employ many former servicemembers and are militarily monitored. The Black Budget may or may not be a single document with that title; I doubt it is. I don’t know if any private business is both doing exclusively secret business with the military and publicly traded; that might be too difficult. We agree on GAAP in your more recent sense.

I don’t know much about Centrelink or Robodebt and, if Australian, they probably don’t bear on this point of U.S. law.

Clive Robinson January 10, 2021 12:15 PM

@ name.withheld…

the expectation that somehow buffoonery equates to achievement, makes apparent, the folly.

As is sometimes said in England, “Oh if only you knew”…

Pierrot never was a happy chappy[1].

As the “ultimate white man”, clown with his head in a cona[2] with a couple of open hands of slap, to his cheeks his face white as lead, he was suppodadly “too naive and is seen as a fool, often the butt of jokes, and too trusting of lies told to him”. As with all clowns he hides his hurt and anger behind empty smiles he shows to the public…

[1] Pierrot, is a character for whom the song “The tears of a clown” by Smokey Robinson and Hank Cosby was written about. Pierrot was a “Pagliacci” (italian for clown) and he appears as the central character in the Opera Pagliacci. Whilst those who know the opera are not that great in number, most know “Put on your costume” where he sings about how as with all performers the show must go on, he has to make the audience laugh, even though the pain of betrayal burns in his heart like poison,

[2] A cona is both a hat and a rude word in some South American Portuguese speaking countries, which causes some ammusment when Brazilians pretending to be Europeans find it is also the name of a manufacturer of coffee machines. As a hat most native speakers of English would see it as the cone shaped “dunces hat” naughty children supposadly had to wear when standing in the corner. The rude word however derives from the old meaning of the French word “connaître” meaning “to know” some one usually in refrence to a woman in the biblical sense. Cona is also a common Italian family name, and it does not take great logic to work out why in Portuguese it is thus a rude word.

Anders January 10, 2021 12:20 PM


I think Putin will very much like the mess (and possible
civil war) in US. NATO is then effectively castrated and
Putin can move on with his annexation plans, first finish
up thinks in Ukraine, then Belarus, then Baltics. Without
US there’s no NATO.

Putin can control his own people easily, remember, he is
ex-KGB. Small victorious war is sometimes all you need to regain
support of the people. And everything depends how you present
it – it can be viewed that elections were stoled from rightful
leader by opposition falsification , so this can be tool
against opposition in Russia. KGB was master in manipulation.

Winter January 10, 2021 12:23 PM

@Clive and others
“It apears that several people do not realise that “Cloud Providers” are by definition privately oened spaces so can not be assumed to be “Public Town Squares”.”

Either social media are private companies in an open market or they are utilities supplying a community function, like a Public Space.

If they are market parties, they are free to set their own rules and terms of service. If clients don’t like them, they can shop elsewhere.

If they are a utility serving a community, the community sets the rules. If clients do not like them, they have to emigrate.

In neither case will calls for armed insurrection be allowed nor tolerated.

JonKnowsNothing January 10, 2021 12:23 PM

@Nick Levinson

re: Centrelink and Robodebt in USA

In the USA, we have similar schemes in many states. We call them by a variety of names and with different laws as enacted by those states. The names are of less importance than the substance of what takes place.

In summary:
These laws are premised on the idea that everyone who applies for State or Federal financial, food, shelter assistance is a fraud. That anyone who makes a claim for benefits, which are delineated in various programs, is a liar and a cheat.

In order to recover these “stolen funds” from these “cheaters”, a “secret algorithm” is created by governments (actually by tech companies under contract). This algorithm is then applied to all possible cases on file, which is 30 years for some databases. The algorithm used in Australia was an illegal accounting practice barred long ago (not GAAP).

The intended results of the scan, is to “recover” over payments made during any period in which a person received benefits. As the algorithm applied is illegal or Not GAAP and secret, the outcome is that a large number of people get a claw-back demand were there is no true liability; the people are not liars, cheats or frauds.

As the process is all run by computer, there is no person to talk to. Functions are automatic. As countries move to a “cashless” benefit card, cutting off funds is very simple. This is the enforcement aspect; the government computers simply cut off the funds.

You might consider this to be a “social services” problem but in reality it’s a very high tech problem. All of this is based on AI/ML, contract tech, big corporations selling big systems and big software, integrated communications systems, financial institution processes and more, to make such a program work.

In nearly every case, these programs targeted legitimate benefits legally applied for and legally granted. They returned little or no funds and cost millions to create, they have also been subject of law suits and court findings and court awarded settlements far exceeding any value.

The corporations who make these systems, deploy them in the USA, using the same faulty logic and the same faulty process with the same faulty outcomes.

But as the saying goes: It plays well in Peoria.

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JonKnowsNothing January 10, 2021 1:01 PM

@ Clive MarkH Winter ALL

re: Distance Protocols for N501/B117

Query: What can a worker do to protect themselves?

While speaking with a healthcare worker who works in a private office in a non-hospital setting, we were reviewing what procedures/processes they have in place to protect people in the building.

The Health Care Group, uses Ultra Violet Light to sanitize the air circulating through the building. They use this same system in the Hospitals.

It would appear that there is still some problem in the application because the hospitals are beyond overrun with internal infections.

So, we were considering what specifically could the HCW do to reduced possible exposure from the A/C system even though it’s supposed to be cleansed by Ultra Violet Light.

  • Would placing a consumer level HEPA type filter system in the path of incoming air flow do anything?
  • Would a personal UV Panel placed in the path of the airflow do anything?

We could resort to shamanic practices and use sacred sage but the smoke detectors are a problem.

It’s not good here:

ht tps://

‘A mass fatality event’: California struggles with backlog of bodies of COVID-19 victims

ht tps://

California struggles under a staggering 2.5m coronavirus cases
  Hospitals are overwhelmed with 22,000 patients as officials
  warn hospitalizations could reach 30,000 by February

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Winter January 10, 2021 1:24 PM

“Putin can control his own people easily, remember, he is
ex-KGB. ”

The position of Putin is much weaker than most people realize.

Many dead bodies and poisonings are a sign of weakness. He has no money to invade other countries outright. There is a lot of dissent and protest in Russia, especially in the outer provinces.

The most dangerous fact for the Kremlin is that there is no future for Russia and no successor for Putin. If Putin fails or dies, it is over.

And what is the road forward for Russia? What are the plans for a better future? There is nothing, not even hope.

Faustus January 10, 2021 2:15 PM

@ Clive

“Grow Up!” is not an argument. It is the admission of defeat on your part. When you can’t even justify your own words, I am not the one who should be called stupid.

No one considers the solicitation of a specific criminal act to be free speech. If that is the best you have, you have nothing.

Clive Robinson January 10, 2021 4:25 PM

@ Faustus,

“Grow Up!” is not an argument. It is the admission of defeat on your part.

It’s nothing of the sort as anyone can tell by reading the comments above so now we know you are actualy stupid.

You raised a strawman about a hostage situation that I had excluded before you even made it.

So I called you on it, and you have not the courage to admit it, or even mention you were called on it. SO in denial then or just trying to channel @rrd?

So just to reiterate I said

“What “hostage situation”, you pulled that one out of your backside. Go back and read what I read and then apply a few grey cells to the matter, you will realise I ruled out that.

As for the rest of your nonsense,


But what is “the rest of your nonsense? It clearly refers to something after your pathetic failure of a straw man attempt. So what was it you also pratteled on in a very childish fashion… And I realy do mean childish. Well here we go to quote you,

Double points for bringing the child in for appeal to emotion! Bravo!

Is that what we do here? Employ transparent propaganda strategies?

As the golden emperor would say: “Sad!”

When will I be able to use the word “sad” without being reminded of that huckster? Or even just read this site?

So not just childish but truly pathetic.

So as before,


name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 10, 2021 5:10 PM

What the heck do people in congress think is appropriate as a course action in responding to the following:

A hospital administrator is telling the public that use the hospital as patience that doctors and nurses are euthanizing patients entering the hospital. Media is carrying the acquisitions as water, social media is replete with “stories” of these killings. The hospital administrator is asked by reporters what evidence of the deliberate killing of admitted patience. The administrator responds to the reporter by stating, “It’s obvious, the majority of doctors, nurses, and orderlies do not like or respect me.” He followed that by saying, “I have more patients visit my office than an other person in the hospital.”

After months of the administrator repeating this lie, the local residents rise up and gather at the hospital asking for the employees, doctors, and nurses to leave their jobs or risk their ire. The employees explain that there is no data available that shows that the hospital is experiencing any unusual deaths and in fact is performing a bit better than a hospital in another county.

The administrator accuses the staff of lying about the number of deaths, even though the country coroner’s office reports that there has actually been a drop in deaths for years. And, other similar counties are experiencing more deaths, suggesting that there is not an attempt to kill locals at the hospital.

The administrator calls for the firing of the coroner or find 11,780 extra dead bodies.

Tatütata January 10, 2021 5:33 PM

I have a silly and rather impertinent question: what problem is supposed to be solved by this ineffective censorbot?

JonKnowsNothing January 10, 2021 6:07 PM

@Clive Winter MarkH SpaceLifeForm ALL

re: TRIAGE Crisis Care coming soonerish

Back before Wave 1a in California, there were discussions about TRIAGE rules and how they would be applied in California and Arizona as directed by the Health Authorities in each state.

TRIAGE rules are on the immediate horizon in California for Wave 1b.

An MSM report reviews the rules and issues.


  * ETA Soon / Before EOM Jan lasting through Feb

  * County Hospitals will have rules / Private Hospitals are on their own

  * Ambulance redirects or no-transport directives in place

  * California Department of Public Health uses SOFA scores /
     Public Health Directors say SOFA is too rigid

  * Goal is saving as many lives as possible /
     Who’s life will be saved is the argument

  * Shifting care from one person to another is subjective and biased.

  * No MDs or ethicists in US have found a suitable methodology
     to determine COVID-19 survival outcomes.

  * AGE as a determinant Y & N
     80yo vs 20yo? / 20yo wins
     80yo Dr Fauci vs 20yo? / 20yo loses

  * Chance of Recovery = Beneficial Care =
     reject Extraordinary Measures == reject “futile care”

  * is a ventilator an Extraordinary Measure = Y

  * SOFA not recommended because of too many Score Ties.

The rules are just as fluid as they were in Wave 1a and the normal Crisis Care Protocols do not supply effective guidance for COVID-19 outcomes.

There’s no room in the hospitals, there’s no room in the ICUs, there’s no room in the morgues, there’s no room at the funeral homes. There is just no room.


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rrd January 10, 2021 6:11 PM

@ Tatütata

what problem is supposed to be solved by this ineffective censorbot?

I have had zero problems or even delays posting yesterday or today.

Personally, I don’t find even attempting to obfuscate my location from Bruce to be a sound use of my or Bruce’s time or resources. That is because I trust him, even if I don’t always agree with him.

I can only imagine that any modern comment filter would rely on needing to train itself (to whatever extent) using your route’s characteristics before you were considered for whitelisting. But that’s just a WAG.

Regardless, no difference whatsoever from my endpoint. Besides, Bruce knows your OTP, so what are you worried about? {wink}

As to effectiveness, unless you have the logs for what his filter has caught and rejected, I’d say you assume much. If you have watched the various floods of bad messages here, I’m sure you understand that some heavy cat and mouse must be getting played behind the scenes. File it under “Intense Fun with Honeypot, 2021 Edition”.

Clive Robinson January 10, 2021 7:48 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing, ALL,

I’ll be honest and say health care triage sickens me to my very core.

I do not believe others who have taken up a vocation to help any and all others should be put in the situation where they are forced to make choices about who they should care for and who they are effectively going to have to kill.

I’ve mentioned a member of my family is a specialist health care worker in London. They have decided to transfer across from their specialist duties to giving vaccinations.

Why? well firstly although there is a need for the specialism, London hospitals have been forced by numbers to “meat ball” type medicine of “Just keep em alive any which way you can” as you stack them up almost like cordwood where ever space for a bed can be found within the reach of falling numbers of healthcare workers. There is no time or space for specialisms even though it is badly needed as internal organs are damaged and start to fail. It’s known but not talked about that not having the specialist care effects the recovery time of those that survive. These survivors will in effect be disabled for two years maybe more, and life expectancy consequently down graded.

As a result of the move to vaccination they are meeting ITU and other staff from several hospitals and these staff are clearly shell shocked and visably sick and clearly physically ill from stress. They have passed a tipping point, thus now it’s not “Will they break?” but just “When?”

I dred to think what the long term outlook is for the mental health of these staff. Even in normal times health care workers are at high risk of premature death as far as life insurance is concerned. Likewise eating disorders and what would be called alcohol and similar abuse.

COVID is not just killing people now, it will directly kill more over the next half decade. But there is a secondary effect, it’s destroying the healthcare systems, they will probably take a decade or two to recover if they ever do. This will result in many “hidden deaths” at COVIDs door. We are talking a very significant percentage of the population loosing years of life they would otherwise have enjoyed.

And it need never have happened, we know this, there are examples of countries that acted correctly on well known information. Their health care systems are OK, their economies are OK, their social/family lives are OK their only fight is keeping SARS2 out. Thus people in the West should ask “Why are we different?” and “Why are we going to be facing five or more generations of hardships and very much increased poverty?”

So everyone should ask “What can I do to help?” well in the UK we have a saying “Charity begins at home”. Well when you think about it your,


Is the best form of charity starting at home and helping everyone, including the many yet to be born.

So please everyone where you can follow that advice, and when you do have to go out “plan it” so you get the maximum done for the minimum time in the danger zone that starts at your front door.

I’ve got my “out in the danger zone time” down to less than 4hrs every week and a half (10days) and I am physically impaired, so it should be easier for the more able bodied. Yes I do go out at times when people are not around to get excercise usually in the early hours of the day, if I can not get out because people are about, I excercise indoors.

This reaky realy is not the time for currently healthy people to excercise what they see as their personal rights over their responsability to society.

Put simply every person who does not become a patient that goes to hospital, means one more person that does not have to be triaged into a freezer truck. That is somebodies mother, father, son, daughter, loved one, friend, or colleague will be going home, because you stayed indoors and stayed well.

The ITU’s in London have patients with an average age of just under sixty and it’s falling week by week. This means that by far the majority are people in there are of working age. Many are those that had to go to work, you may not know them but frequently the effects of what they do effect your everyday life. Each one of those not working or worse makes your life a little bit harder in some way. Why would you want to make life worse for yourself?

So, give yourself a chance by giving them a chance and,


blockquote>GO HOME and STAY THERE!



Clive Robinson January 10, 2021 8:05 PM

@ Tatütata,

what problem is supposed to be solved by this ineffective censorbot?

I’ve noticed that many of the problems have now effectively gone. Though there is the occasional unexplainable blockquote blowing up.

What I saw could be explained by,

1, An unknown but short length limit.
2, Some kind of naughty word list.

And yes the triggerd persistance did appear to be based on some kind of fault found and importantly “remembered”.

I’m not seeing the faults now, so I’m assuming the detectors I have seen have been replaced.

Any way nearly time for my stroll or more correctly gimp/crab around the park to go scare the wild life.

AnyOne January 10, 2021 10:17 PM

I just discovered a python library called pearly while browsing codeberg, It seems very useful but the version is strangely starting from 3.0 on pypi, I don’t know why.

It simply takes the rss urls and replaces them with chronological post links, the example shows usage of it to play mpv subscription feeds but I think it may be useful for my OSINT.

I installed it from pypi and it works like a charm.. Probably the dev couldn’t count…

ResearcherZero January 10, 2021 10:30 PM

The Antifa Theorem courtesy of ‘The Big D’ comes straight from the Russian playbook, and straight into their hands. From the 80’s onward they were no longer hanging out in or infiltrating socialist and communist meetings, as they were populated by intelligence people from internal security, and had moved into the far right organizations, Neo-Nazis, etc. It was where the money was being directed through shell companies, set up by Right Wing pundits with an axe to grind, and those groups were far more organized, pliable, and likely to carry out effective destabilization or armed violence to obtain their goals.

The kind of politics in Far Right groups aligned with the aims of the same crowd Putin moved in. If they wanted to bring about the downfall of the United States and other Democracies, then they were not going to achieve that with politically unorganized marginal groups with no serious financial backing.

However, to achieve their final aims they would have to also penetrate the structure of government departments themselves. Health, education, the police, and most importantly, the legal system. Own a few judges, a couple of prosecutors in each state, then you can get your people out of trouble and easily go about corrupting the working culture within. Subversion 101, intimidate and compromise law and order.

Tear down communities from within, disintegrate family units, then, pump up the drug supply, then set everyone against one another. Always maintain the most important rule, encourage a societies own mistakes, or it will never tear itself apart…

No one could possibly believe it, until it’s too late, and they see it for themselves

Goat January 10, 2021 11:00 PM

re: unexplainable blockquote blowing up.

@Clive, Are you sure you closed it using / this behaviour may result from unclosed tags

Clive Robinson January 11, 2021 12:58 AM

@ Goat,

@Clive, Are you sure you closed it using / this behaviour may result from unclosed tag

No, I can’t as by the time I noticed it was to late to back button to check.

But the occasional blowing up of the “blockquote” tags has been seen before by both @SpaceLifeForm and myself. Back then we carried out a few simple tests and discovered that it could be caused to happen by using “blockquote” in one tag and “Blockquote” in the other tag[1]. Why capitalising just one letter should do this was unknown we just logged it as a problem.

There is unfortunately only a very limited amount of testing that can be done even on old pages before it can upset other users of the blog, because it ends up filling the “100 last comments” page some use as their primary interface to the blog.

[1] This is one of those times when a developer says “But why would they do that?” which elicits the “But they didn’t” response from the third line support person… The long answer is “auto-capitalisation” initial letter capitalisation can happen to somebody when their web browser edit function thinks they are starting a new sentence, rather than whacking in a couple of HTML flags before using cut-n-past from somebody elses post when repling to them. So it’s not what you might call unexpected user input, so should be in every developer and software testers check list of things.

JonKnowsNothing January 11, 2021 2:20 AM


MSM report that New Zealand’s Central Bank has been hacked. No official attribution or details on the intrusion.

A third party file sharing service? GoogleDocsInNZ? Discord? AWSInNZ?

A third-party file sharing service used by the Reserve Bank of New Zealand to share and store sensitive information was illegally accessed

Several major organisations in New Zealand have been the target of cyber interference in the past year, including the New Zealand Stock Exchange,

Dave Parry, professor of computer science at Auckland University [said] another government was likely behind the bank data breach.

“Ultimately if you were coming from a sort of like criminal perspective, the government agencies aren’t going to pay your ransom or whatever, so you’d be more interested probably coming in from a government-to-government level.”

I’m not sure what that last bit means… Kiwi Lingo…

ht tps://
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rrd January 11, 2021 6:28 AM

@ WmG

Yeah, thanks a tonne for the link. Did you bother to read the last message (which is from Clive) on that page?

Where he defends his stance that he and his “cohort” should be able to deny religious teaching to other people’s children?

In that post, he is responding to this question of mine:

You think that you have the right to deny a child a religious upbringing. And you claim that I’m the delusional one?

He replied:

Why would expressing a desire that children not be indoctrinated or mentaly abused and suffer life long harm from the indoctrination and abuse of religion cults and other forms of political control be a bad thing?

He is stating his belief that ALL religious education is mere political control, indoctrination and mental abuse, that ALL religions are cults. That is his justification for his fascist stance on religion.

WmG, you have done the Lord’s Work here.

Does anyone here wonder why Bruce deleted that comment? I don’t.

Does anything from Clive’s deleted comment jibe with what he’s trying to say here in this thread?

And now Clive’s lies have been laid bare in his own words for all to see. And no one cares?

I guess that no one really does.

Except for Clive, who piles lies upon lies upon lies, in the vain attempt to obscure the truth of what he is.

Remember: it was Clive that dragged me back into this mess, by lying about me out of nowhere on this page (I think that that comment was deleted). As with all Trump-level liars, every accusation is an admission. Just like Trump, he makes a lot of false claims, provides no evidence, then not only ignores the facts when anyone points them out, but viciously attacks them for doing so, adding even more lies into the mix. Too bad y’all are too busy kissing the ring to see the truth; willful ignorance is your own responsibility, not mine, just like those evil fools who are now showing up here in America’s jails because they glommed onto the wrong fool’s ideology.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 11, 2021 6:52 AM



The next administration, if it is of a quasi democratic republic type, must grapple with the ills that have plagued the United States and its people for more than the years of its founding. And one particular problem, identified with the moniker of the “United States of America during the Civil War” is more than one hundred and seventy years old (editorial note, Civil War–ironic or tragic–what say you).

The failure of the “Uniting the Nation” in order to heal is problematic, it fails to fully understand what actual divides its peoples by way of its promises and expectations. As I see it, the U.S. has several societal ills that will destroy the fabric of the nation if not quickly and resoundingly addressed. The first order of addressing any of these ills starts with understanding the causes and not just focusing on the symptoms. How do you free a people that have been enslaved? Simple, release the displaced people from their slavery. But wait, it wasn’t THEIR slavery.

No academic exercise, say for example coming from the recently endowed research organization in Maine; The Institute for the Understanding of why People are so Stubborn and Stupid that they’ll Repeat the Same Mistakes Over and Over Again to the Point of Exhaustion, or, to Death is sufficient or adept enough to enumerate and identify the number of long term social, political, and institutional disunities between objective goals and measurable outcomes.

I’d argue that the objective goals; Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness is currently just a really catchy song title that the Beatles might have put as the last track of an album. It suffers from being cliché to most people given the depth and context that citizens understand this phrase apply, to them it has little to no meaning. In other words, this song will never be the lead track of a Beatles Album.

As the largest percentage of the population has the least understanding or interest in the history, nature, and character of the democratic republic in which they live, their burden is to be the sovereign from which power is derived and trust is instilled to others. What could possibly go wrong? Well, that is what I am attempting to explore. Doing so is not an exercise, the current slate of political inheritance is bestowed to a new faction in a most tenuous manner during a most tumultuous of times.

Failure is an option, but not a preference. Getting in front of a bullet train, holding your hands in front of you with palms extended and yelling stop…probably not a good idea. I try it anyway.

Czerno January 11, 2021 8:00 AM

Dear All – but especially to the English and British readership :
being preoccupied by the reports of the epidemics getting out of control at least in London and other major UK cities. I read about massive vaccination campaigns in your Country, and that the Queen had let known she took the jab. I would be delighted to hear WHICH vaccine she had, does anyone have a hint ? I searched British online press and no answer came out.

Another question, other than the royals, do “ordinary” British people have a say of which vaccine they’ll be injected ?

Curious January 11, 2021 9:46 AM

@Bob and everybody else

“I see speech much the same way I see a weapon like a firearm. In the hands of a good person it is wielded as a shield of protection, recreation, or a general force for good. In the hands of a murderer, it is used to commit an atrocity, and an act of evil.”

I think your notion of ‘speech’ as some kind of metaphor or a notion for something dangerous as a firearm is seriously flawed.

Most people, or a lot of people are not armed with a firearm, nor are most people acting threatening in any way. Thus, to imply that all people, who obviously all have in principle are fully able to speak as long as nobody is hindering them speaking or writing, that all people are potentially threatening, is imo even more de-humanizing than the idiom commonly found in North America where they say “You are entitled to your opinion”, when it should be EXPECTED that people have opinions as such. So I will insist that to imply that basically all people can be patently dangerous or bad because they voice their opinions, is not a good principle to rely on, because the actualization (the purported understanding of a context or raising of an issue) of a problem of what is dangerous or bad, has basically nothing to do with people having or voicing their opinion, and instead in thinking of a problem or notion of something dangerous or bad is somehow related to the ability to have or voice ones opinion, the relation between something dangerous and the notion of ‘free speech’ seems wholly arbitrary and also not something that would be obvious at all.

This notion of seeking to make an associating between people’s opinions or voicing them, with some type of a general concern or a given problem, in turn makes me think again of how terrible Donald Rumsfeld’s notion of ‘unknown unknowns’, an utter disgrace for the human race, which I think obviously would either have to come to rely on the mythical and impossible claims of ‘apriori knowledge’ or succumbing to wishful thinking for reasons less honorable, like acting out of fear, or acting with a bias, by fearmongering, by racism, or for some other wicked reason. As far as I am concerned ‘unknown unknowns’ would have to be something patently imaginary.

Bob, I haven’t read all you wrote at this point, but I thought I wanted to just go ahead and make my point here, because I thought what you wrote sounded really jarring to me.

As for ‘hate’, as an adult, the flawed ways the word ‘hate’ is used by people in the English speaking world (so let’s forget about anything translated into ‘hate’ into English) has made me realize that ‘hate’ in English is a word either misunderstood or abused. It seems obvious to me that any notions or claims of ‘hate’ becomes paradoxial, when claims of x “hating” y is either not explained, nor proved. As far as I care, there it nothing wrong with “x hating y”, partly because one can expect people to have their own opinions, and partly because the very merit of hatred would in any case have to be based on a particular understanding. If somebody claims to be hating x or y or both, if they claim to be also upset or angry but cannot really explain why (or if their explanations is not believable, or seemingly arbitrary), then it should be obvious that ‘hate’ as such is not the problem. It is then some kind of undefined relation problem, but wait there is more. In trying to define or explain in particular using the word ‘hate’ as a label, as if trying to explain why other people are upset or angry, this too would have to be something paradoxical and doesn’t make any sense if attributing ill will on others by such an understanding; such claims would basically be similar to hate as such, and for anybody to suggest or claim that “x hates y” without merit is automatically void of reason if (as earlier) is not explained, nor proved.

If I told a friend outright that I think pizza is disgusting as a food and that I won’t eat pizza, that itself does not really merit the use of ‘hate’ in describing my relation to pizza as a food, because nothing is known about why I find pizza as a food disgusting.

If a newspaper listened in on the conversation and wrote a story about it with the headline “Man hates pizza”, the reader learns nothing about my relation to pizza, the newspaper would create this idea that I simply ‘hate’ pizza, as if hating pizza was just a thing I am doing on my own free time. I could have one or ten different reasons for why I find pizza as a food to be disgusting, some might be idiotic and perhaps unwarranted and some might be understandable. (As a side note: I love eating pizza, because it usually tastes good and as a food it is interesting in other ways.)

If a newspaper a week later after that writes an opinion piece about “People that hate pizza”, then if just injecting ones opinions, or rants, or anger on some stated group of people now understood as ‘people hating pizza’, if there is no direct substance or stated merit to the accusations, the one doing the hating there would be the newspaper, in arbitrarily attributing ill will to some more or less specific group of people, or their opinions or ideas.

Of particular interest, I also want to point out that I find the idea of ‘hate crime’ to be both wrong and suspect. Wrong, because ‘hate’ as such is not a crime in the general sense, and the application of ‘hate crime’, if relying solely on what it sounds like as if “making hate a crime”, seems something political and unusual, a political tool.

Clive Robinson January 11, 2021 9:49 AM

@ Czerno,

I would be delighted to hear WHICH vaccine she had, does anyone have a hint ? I searched British online press and no answer came out.

Nor should you be able to find out…

It’s private healthcare data that is protected under several sets of legislation.

However you can make an educated guess if you wish to.

Very approximately what vaccine you get by default is based on which center or hub you receive it. This is because of the very significant chill-chain issues with the two mRNA vaccines.

As a very rough rule of thumb your probability of which vaccine you get will depend on how far away your innoculation point is from the nearest cryo-storage. The default choice of innoculation point is the one closest to you geo-logistically to minimise infection risk. This is because from the known data it takes upto three weeks after the first jab to get a reasonable level of efficacy thus if you get infected going to get your jab, you could become very sick or dead…

But as a matter of “efficacy” in reducing sever illness and death from the time of the first jab, the Oxford vaccine is actually better based on peer reviewed and published phase III trial and follow up data (not something the US and German drug companies want widely known I guess, which might go towards explaining the very odd behaviours of the FDA and EDA).

Thus as the UK delayed second jab policy is about keeping people out of in-patient hospitalisation, so that hopefully the harrowing triage that other places have, can be significantly reduced and avoided, and likewise the damage to the most criticall part of the health care service it’s staff, you can make an educated guess from the UK delayed second jab policy as to which would be the favoured jab to give.

That is even before,

1, Basic supply chain issues.
2, Chill chain issues.
3, Administering and administration issues.
4, Patient travel issues.

All of which the Oxford vaccine scores better on than the two mRNA vaccines… and that’s all before the substantial cost differential. The Oxford vaccine actually costs less than the big fat chunk of change the US Treasury takes on each of the mRNA vaccines…

So in the UK the Oxford vaccine is overall going to be as the senior at AZ pointed out “the perfect choice”.

As for,

do “ordinary” British people have a say of which vaccine they’ll be injected ?

The answer to that is as far as I am aware, yes within reason (you can not have what is not available).

Because both vaccine and patients are “assigned” to vaccine hubs and centers based on logistics to get the most jabs done, at minimum risk. The consequence might well be that you would miss your turn or be given a later one. Which when you think about it is a consequence of “Queing System Theory”. That is you would have to be assigned to a different hub or center, so get put at the next “new slot” available which is the equivalent of joining the back of that sites que at the time your choice is registered. Which might mean your slot would come up later if you make your choice especialy if you make it later in time, that is just a concequence of a queuing system optomised for maximum through put with minimum risk.

Goat January 11, 2021 10:21 AM

I am reminded of one quote by mahatma gandhi “hate the sin love the sinner”, it seems to be in full suit on this blog.

The problem is that words here can be ignored, misread and misquoted as it takes a great person to be a good listener.

Clive Robinson January 11, 2021 12:59 PM

@ Freezing_in_Brazil,

It is indeed a highbrow imprecation, since only scholars seem to know its existence.

Interesting, I’ve been told it by a number of South American Portuguese speakers a number of times. I was told of the link to the old French by a linquist who worked as a translator for the UN who was in London studying yet anothe language at SOAS.

As to Brazilians pretending to be European…

I can assure you it very much does go on. Unless you live in the UK or have spent some time hear in the past decade you might not be aware of the political situation which whilst fairly strongly “anti-European” was even worse to other countries…

Those doing “immigration checking” in the UK were effectively “harassing” foreign nationals and I’ve personally seen it at work over in Stratford East London.

In effect the “dual citizenship” was ignored, people would get pulled out and held untill proof of EU residency prior to arival in the UK and as a place to return to on leaving the UK was provided. Various insurance companies were also in on the game as it gave them financial advantage. Likewise employers who could and in some cases could suffer not just repeated interferance but potentially large fines…

So what some dual nationals had done was collectively use an address held by one of their relatives in Portugal as a “Registered Address” and got Portuguese documentation etc to support it in various ways.

It was all quite nasty behaviour by UK authorities and the instructions behind it were political in origin and came directly from not just the then Home Office Minister acting for the UK Prime Minister, but when she was Prime Minister the policy continued if not worsened under her chosen Home Office Minisyerial replacment.

Remember “In the UK you do not have to be illegal to be treated repeatedly as an illegal” and I can only assume it is going to get considerably worse now we have left the UK as the UK does not recognise “Dual Nationality”. But even before that the UK has used “Dual Nationality” as a way to keep even UK born individuals out of the country. Somrbody I worked with who had been born and lived their entire life in the UK and not once stepped outside it got served a notice of deportation a couple of days before their wedding and draged off for “interview” as was his bride to be, and the wedding was stopped by the authorities…

This sort of thing goes on multiple times a day…

rrd January 11, 2021 2:32 PM

@ Curious

Hatred is a vice of the human heart that is manifested as a conscious feeling one has for another human being or group of human beings. Therefore, hating pizza is irrelevant to the notion of hatred; that’s just a figure of speech.

The feeling of hatred is the vice that pairs with love/compassion/Agape. It has been the source of human atrocities since time immemorial.

Your understanding of human morality/amorality is deeply flawed.

Yes, a “hate crime” needs to exist just as “aggravated assault” is different than just plain “assault”.

Always love. Teach to always love.
Never hate. Teach to never hate.

Hatred is the very worst flaw in the human personality matrix of potentials. At any given time, we are either choosing to let it exist within ourselves, or we are not. While we are letting it consume us, we are in the wrong. There is no alternative, but that does not prevent the willfully ignorant from claiming otherwise.

The truth of this is born out by history, and continues to be very problematic to this very day, simply because people have either not been taught these simple facts, or have denied their reality and the necessity of applying it to their lives for the benefit of everyone they encounter.

As well, hatred destroys the person’s happiness, the more and more the person gives in to it. This is not only due to the fact that taking pleasure in hatred is mutually exclusive to feeling happiness, as happiness cannot coexist with hatred, but that’s just an important side effect. The resulting unhappiness is really the result of the universe’s karmic feedback mechanism, where vice results in unhappiness and virtue results in happiness. The polar opposite result can be felt in the positive feedback (happiness) that we feel from performing compassionate acts, as well as those of generosity, kindness, forgiveness and the like. Furthermore, the emotions we choose to let inhabit us have an inertial quality, among their oscillations.

Note that the universe’s karmic feedback mechanism is a minimization function for negative human societal results, such as strife and misery. As such, vices such as enmity, jealousy, ignorance, oppression and hatred lead to a decrease of our happiness. Because we have a completely free free will, these are the universe’s subtle nudges towards positive personal attitudes and behaviors. We are completely free to ignore those nudges and the results of our poor behaviors, but we can never escape the karma we have earned, for we truly do reap what we sow, and yet, we can always change our karmic results by undergoing self-evolution. As such, our karmic “happiness score” really acts like a moving average, where newer attitudes and behaviors are far more weighted than older acts. No one is so depraved that they cannot change themselves, if only they go within and invoke our Creator.

Note also that hatred is very different to righteous anger at injustice, but that’s a completely different — and very tricky — topic.

AndyF January 11, 2021 4:10 PM

Parler has been well and truly hacked, looks like no real security, all the system and user data has been downloaded and spread around. Apparently they didn’t delete messages or uploads from the database/filesystem when the user deleted them, just set a flag to mark them deleted. Also they didn’t scrub metadata from images and have left location information etc intact. Absolute goldmine. Will be fun to watch the story.

I’ve just realised that there will be dedicated eNodeB within the capital complex owned by the different network operators. FBI only need to ask for a list of phones registered on those sites during the period of interest then ask the operators for the registered owners of the phones. Oops!

rrd January 11, 2021 4:35 PM

@ name.withheld

You said:

I like your first, only goal, not the last one.

I know this site is hosted by the Master of Cryptography, but you’re going to have to give me more to go on than that.

I mean, there’s pithy, but then there’s inscrutable and indecipherable and unintelligible.

A little help, please?

justPondering January 11, 2021 5:17 PM

Does DuckDuckGo depend a lot on Bing? At least their ads seem to all lead to Bing.

Considering that Edge browser is calling to * (as seen on Fiddler) even when you do not navigate to Bing, it would not surprise if Microsoft can figure out what you are searching for on DuckDuckGo…

Goat January 11, 2021 9:38 PM

re:”Microsoft can figure out what you are searching for on DuckDuckGo”

Only if you click on an ad, otherwise the api ensures no data is send. If you click the ball’s out of their court, but the biggest caution is that bangs to !amazon may add affiliate codes leading to amazon knowing you are coming for duckduckgo, your searches are still kept private.

That said no one can verify these claims but it is definately better than google, yandex and bing. If you are DIY person run a Searx instance but that comes with a host of issues I wouldn’t deleve into.

Goat(Gnu oppersion against typists) January 11, 2021 9:48 PM

@name.withheld.. These questions are a work of genius, probably some free speech platforms need this to be circulated.

Wait! They are free speech but they don’t want to hear this 😮 . I am confused. 😉

Donald Duck January 11, 2021 10:01 PM

First parley wasn’t hacked nobody gets hacked.

Free Speech is so deer to me I set fire to silent people, I will answer your questions but please submit to belgium, ICC yourself they aren’t on parley.

350K dead by willful criminal negligence is not enough for you?
The attempt to decapitate the first branch of government is merely a misunderstanding?
There is no first branch of government, there is only Trump
The utter contempt for everyone, except one person, is a stylistic mannerism?
I thought I was the only one that had utter contempt for everyone
What planet are you people from?
Who do you work for?

See you only need these answers since this is the correct one

Winter January 12, 2021 12:01 AM

“The United States presidential inauguration should be moved to an undisclosed location.”

It is a trap!

Winter January 12, 2021 12:51 AM

After being booted from Twitter, where does Donald Trump go to reach his followers?

He became known as a Reality Personality on TV. But can he go back?

The main obstacle seems to be that in any other channel than Twitter, he will have to anser questions, and he cannot answer questions as he does not know the answer to “How?” to any of his policy goals or predictions.

And his adventures in the White House briefing room generally did not go well and revealed the limits of his grasp of policy or current events. One Trump adviser was blunt, saying that the president did not like most aspects of his job, and that included being asked questions for which he did not know the answers.

So when Mr. Trump went to the briefing room for weeks in the spring to discuss the coronavirus, advisers said, he liked the visual aspects of his performance but not the reality of having a back and forth that led to him being condemned and ridiculed for his dangerous statements about fighting the virus with bleach and light and his fact-free assertions about everything getting better.

So, there remains the question: What channels are available to Trump? TV? A new social media platform? Talk Radio?

Clive Robinson January 12, 2021 1:30 AM

@ Winter,

So, there remains the question: What channels are available to Trump? TV? A new social media platform? Talk Radio?

It’s easy to answer, just ask the following two questions of the service,

1, Is it a “broadcast” system?
2, Does it lack “feedback”?

If the answer to both of those is “Yes” then it will fall into his needs.

But he also has “wants” which means two other asspects have to be considered,

3, Is the audiance large?
4, Can he feel the adoration?

It’s that last point that is his Achilles heal, he wants/needs an audience, it’s the responsability he does not want. In essence he want’s to,

“Walk in the theater, wrap the flag around him, shine, bask in the reflected glory, leave to adoration”.

Some people in times past have poured millions of tons of concrete to achive amphitheaters and stadia to this end. With grand center pieces such as a “Cathedral of Light” by Albert Speer etc, where an individual can stand their voice amplified thousands of times and heard miles away.

Winter January 12, 2021 1:34 AM

“But he also has “wants” which means two other asspects have to be considered,”

You forget “low effort, high return” and “fast response”.

Twitter was perfect: low effort, fast, 24/7. What could replace that?

JonKnowsNothing January 12, 2021 2:26 AM

@Winter @Clive @All

re: ex-President options

The US Presidential salary is pretty tiny compared to other professions. It is intended to be a curb against accumulation of wealth in office. Most items given as gifts to the President and Family etc are not theirs and they don’t get to keep them after leaving office. There’s a junk-shop sale periodically to empty the attics.

So the vast majority of Presidents leave office without much money. Some who placed their businesses in trust, had their business into the ground and so effectively ended up bankrupt.

It doesn’t take long to fix the problem and there is a regular system in place on the Talk Shows / Speeches / Appearances Circuit. The honorarium is a very large fee.

ex-President Trump can join all the other ex-Presidents on the circuit along with other “important” government officials and ambassadors etc.

The structure will be setup so that he is comfortable and he won’t be required to do ad-hoc Q&A. President Trump does like to mug for the crowd, so they will be sure to stock the room with happy cheers.

Even if something “disgraceful” is attached to Trump, there are plenty of former disgraced officials roaming the talking circuits. Plenty of them did jail time or had scandals trailing after them. Oliver North is a prime example tied to the Reagan Administration. Bill Clinton, Dick Cheney, Spiro Agnew.

Depending on what happens in the next few days, M. Trump could run for Governor or Representative or even Senator. Unless there is some prohibition prevents this. The intricacies of a potential pardon or other exit clause might not interfere with any future political ambitions he has or plans for Ivanka (rumors are she plans to run for public office). (1)

Marcy Wheeler has been doing some analysis about what is included or excluded in some of the pardons already issued by the Trump administration. It’s all very sticky wicket in the wording.

1, Regardless of what happened or happens to Trump, a large segment of the US population did not vote for Biden. This segment did not vote for the Democrats in the previous elections either. It’s not a new condition; it’s a persistent condition. One not likely to be altered by President Biden.

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Winter January 12, 2021 2:31 AM


Or OAN. But there are serious downsides:
1) TV demands planning and scheduling. They have scheduled times for programs. The Donald cannot just call in at any time 24/7. Viewers will have to know when they can expect their Idol.

2) A higher bar of coherence is required. Not high, but a big leap compared to tweets. TV also requires interaction between the Donald and others.

3) Those making the program have their own agenda. At least they want to be in the picture themselves.

SpaceLifeForm January 12, 2021 2:46 AM

OSINT and Public Pressure is critical

Until in recent hours, as far as I could track, all arrests that have been made public, were all of people that were ID-ed by public OSINT.

Now, I hear of a Capitol Police officer arrest, but not ID-ed publicly yet.

That is just the tip of the iceberg.

Because Parler had such a lame API, a bunch of ‘stuff’ was scraped.

There is a bunch of evidence out there now. People that were in D.C. using Parler will not be able to claim they were not there. Because of metadata from the pics/video.

Importantly, because it is ‘out there’, it will not allow LE/FBI to ignore.

The public may not be able to get the phone records or credit card records, but the EXIF will force the issue.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 12, 2021 4:32 AM

Purportedly, from a recorded conversation between a former military commander, T. McInerney and various trump supporters. The source is sketchy, there is source material but am unsure of its origin and authenticity but given the current environment it must be considered as relevant but not fully sourced. From the recording I listened to, a series of interesting propaganda subtexts emerged and were developed, an illogical or irrational correlation to a particular lie is tied to the previous lie, and out comes a rather incoherent set of “observations” that MAGA can or does use to churn the chum for the chuds.

The operational network for insurgent communications is from a top down, using a QANon type wink and a node by those close to Trump, and reaches out to a 600+ Christian church network. They are advised to share this QANon type/based messaging to their church networks around the country. Apparently Flynn is working to take propaganda and operational coordination under cover by using the old social networking system (church organizations, act as commands) tied to the new social networking participants (unit operatives).

The disinformation network is now claiming that MAGA special operations (say what) has Pelosi’s laptop.

It is looking as if the operational head is between these supporters, retired military, and churches around the country. This is not an unusual place for many white nationalists to operate. If I am reading this correctly, it seems to be a nationwide mobilization, the current word going out is…

“You must stand up, like you are at Normandy because this is a critical time for the world.”

“Tell them to back the President, tell them how serious this is.”

“This isn’t just a fraudulent election, it is changing our life style.” — This is classic trump, change the lie to a new lie.

“It’s Covid-19, look at this. And we think its medical because Dr. Fauci tells us we have to shut everything down.” — This is the transition to the new big lie and injustice brought upon Trump.

“Look at what they done to the world.”

“And look at the Republicans, the depth of this corruption.”

“Comey sold the Hammer and Scorecard system to the Chinese, so we’ve got a problem.”

What concerns me is the the entire framework around this cult operation is that it is more of a military style loosely affiliated command network–don’t appear to be lieutenants or captains. It is simply; General, Field Commandants, with headquarters to radio operators, to combatant commands. Another freaky thing, the group affiliations. The MAGA cult is structured around a very familiar U.S. command structure, like those of Afghanistan and Iraq. There seems to be a very military centric tone to the conversations and there are no questions but a lot of head nodding.

Winter January 12, 2021 5:32 AM

“What concerns me is the the entire framework around this cult operation is that it is more of a military style loosely affiliated command network–don’t appear to be lieutenants or captains.”

Looks like fascism to me. Also, the structure is the same as those used by the Russian lead rebels in Ukraine. Same structure, same tactics.

rrd January 12, 2021 5:32 AM

@ name.withheld

You said:

The source is sketchy,

I knew that before I started reading your comment.

The key to the Capitol riot gang is that they are both ill-willed and stupid.

So many groups are.

Freezing_in_Brazil January 12, 2021 9:16 AM

@ Clive Robinson

Interesting, I’ve been told it by a number of South American Portuguese speakers a number of times. I was told of the link to the old French by a linquist who worked as a translator for the UN who was in London studying yet anothe language at SOAS.

Trust this native Portuguese speaker: it’s hardly ever spoken by the common Brazilian. In fact, most employ even uglier terms. As for its etymology, refer to the Latin cunnus, as I said. The UN’s guy is obviously not a cunning linguist.

I, for one, apologize for the bad behavior of my fellow Brazilian citizens. You are right in that some can be extremely noisy and inconvenient. I retain a dual citizenship and have always been very well treated in Europe. Never experienced what you describe. But then I frequent far better circles.


Czerno January 12, 2021 9:32 AM

@Clive, re: «… the Oxford vaccine scores better on than the two mRNA vaccines… and that’s all before the substantial cost differential. The Oxford vaccine actually costs less than the big fat chunk of change the US Treasury takes on each of the mRNA vaccines…

So in the UK the Oxford vaccine is overall going to be as the senior at AZ pointed out “the perfect choice”.»

Thank you ! Your insight confirmed and amplified what I’d been inferring. Now in my eighth decennial° I’m no great fan of playing guinea pigs for the likes of Pfizer nor Moderna. Fortunately the relevant branch of the European community has just announced approval of the Oxford vaccine, I’ll defer on taking the jab until my country (France) offers it to us.

° Or as they say, decade – though a “decade” should mean a 10-day period properly, not 10 yrs.

Czerno January 12, 2021 9:40 AM

Correction ! I misread a press comment, the European community has not yet approved the AstraZeneca vaccine, it only received an official request for approval today. However they say formal approval could come as soon as by the end of this current month of January.

Winter January 12, 2021 10:34 AM

I am reading about the scraping of Parler. The technology is not very interesting, downloading a website with an incrementing wget script.

What amazed me is that the collective was able to download 56 terabytes of information from Amazon without any alarm bells going off.

Doesn’t Amazon charge by the byte? Dowloading 56 TB must take some time and some bandwidth.

Clive Robinson January 12, 2021 10:44 AM

@ Freezing_in_Brazil,

I, for one, apologize for the bad behavior of my fellow Brazilian citizens. You are right in that some can be extremely noisy and inconvenient.

Apologize for what? A little noisy occasionaly when having fun, but then who is not when they are in their twenties and full of life.

It’s not me and I suspect not most others in London or other UK cities and places that find them “inconvenient” even in the slightest. But unfortunately a certain type of UK Politician, and for no better reason than the foolish political statments they have made they played the covert race card of “immigration” in, and thus have made their own pettard, which they have been hoist by.

The reality is there realy is no “Noble Britain” we are pretty much all mongrels not pedigrees and thus our strength comes from all those different parts that make us what we are.

In Australia there is a song that many think should be their real national anthem. In it is the line,

“We are one, but we are many, and from all the nations of the world we come”

Well that kind of sums up England over more than a millennium. Trade brought people to this island, and some stayed, worked hard got rich and moved outwards from the ports, making way for new generations to come. As they move out their customs traditions food and children mix with those of others. According to various official sources most of the UK population are less than three generations born hear old, or have similar close ancestors.

The idea of some noble anglo saxon standing here for a thousand years or hundred generations etc etc is realy a fantasy in the minds of a few bigots who make false politics with it.

Yes there is racism or similar just as there is football violence, but unlike many places we do talk about it quite publicly, which often makes it look worse than it actually is. But it comes from all sides and it is true of all peoples as it is based on things from our genetic pasts, which is the distrust of strangers to the tribe.

Yet even people of entirely different races, cultures and religions frequently get married and have children inheriting the strengths of both parents. And yes in their turn they will tell their children in effect “you can not go out with X they are not one of us”… It’s just the way life is, as someone once noted “Grandchildren quiet most disagreements”…

lurker January 12, 2021 12:47 PM


A third party file sharing service? GoogleDocsInNZ? Discord? AWSInNZ?

None of the above: It seems Accellion released “mid-December” a patch for a “P0” vulnerability in its File Transfer Appliance software. (Great timing) FTA is described as a legacy product with “less than 50 customers”; how many of those patched promptly is not known. Customers were being encouraged to upgrade to Kiteworks.

I entered the url without the protocol header, but bloggs wants to nice it…

SpaceLifeForm January 12, 2021 4:23 PM

@ Winter, Clive

Well, that did not take long.

Just the first graphic here from the EXIF data tells you the story.

htt ps://

Winter January 12, 2021 4:43 PM

“Just the first graphic here from the EXIF data tells you the story.”

One of the comments reads:
“Boy, guess we didn’t need to put a chip in the vaccine after all, did we?”

This whole “Insurrection” looks like a modern adaptation of “The Pied Piper of Hamelin”, with our Orange Boy as the Pied Piper and the MAGA/Qanon crowed as the rats, or children.

ht tps://

(by the way, after this has all ended very badly, the whole Trump era will be told as a Deep State (=Democrat) conspiracy)

SpaceLifeForm January 12, 2021 4:50 PM

@ Winter

Doesn’t Amazon charge by the byte? Dowloading 56 TB must take some time and some bandwidth.

That is Parlers nickel.

The scraping was Sunday, bandwidth fluctuated, but at times was getting many GB per second.

I’ll note that Bongino is now claiming poverty. Must have over-toked.

vas pup January 12, 2021 5:05 PM

@ALL from left and right on recent events:
The best way to prevent all doubts on results and subsequent protest on 01.06.21 would be actions on the side of SCOTUS:
Not reject claims by 17 States of election fraud on technicalities, but rather move issue to hearing consideration in details in a very speedy way working even on weekends – they are not too overloaded and that was issue of highest priority.

Then agree you or not, SCOTUS decision would be final and remove all doubts based on evaluation of evidence presented, not political preferences.

By the way, POTUS and Vice-POTUS are the ONLY elected officials who represent not particular State, but the USA as the whole.
That is why 17 States claim was rejected without proper justification.

Justification that was provided is very true IF and ONLY IF, that election issue was related to election of Federal Senator or Federal Congressman because they do represent on Federal level their State ONLY. In such case election issues in particular State are not business of any other State.

@Moderator – before You delete this post, please at least let Bruce read it.

By the way, I’d like this blog and posts are as much logical as possible because that it IT and security blog, not liberal arts blog. They do have their own channels to spill emotions, but WE should keep our heads clear towards logic.

Clive Robinson January 12, 2021 5:19 PM

@ Space, Winter,

Well, that did not take long.

Nor did the final “lemings over the cliff fall” of Orange-U-tan’s senior supporters according to another Gizzmo page.

I’m still seeing the irony in “little Gov” types still thinking they have the right to demand that their rule breaking clap-trap still be put out by private corporations…

The sad thing is just how long it’s taken the private corps to do it. In short “Way to little, way to late”.

The other ironic thing is that these people built what they see as their “mission critical servers” on “Cloud Infrastructure”… I think most who have been readers here for a little while just how daft an idea that was…

For well over a decade we’ve been warning “who owns your data” with Cloud services and just about every time the answer turned out to be “not to you”. But to see Pratler users data go to become “owned by everyone” is quite ironical.

Mind you one question arises,

In the US would it be illegal to use the Parler data to “black ball” employees etc?

After all these “little governmenters” wanted employers to have instant dismissal rights with no legal repercussions from terminated employees.

All of a sudden these policy ideas they had are not going to look so good when applied to their followers…

Oh and the likes of “go-find-me” have decided that trips to trump ralies and similar will be removed so the low level grifters are getting the knee cap treatment. And AirBnB are apparently not letting WashDC bookings for the inauguration ceremony time period…

So the question is “How long can a Rat stay alive when seperated fro its cheese?” dors come to mind…

SpaceLifeForm January 12, 2021 5:27 PM

@ Clive

“But it comes from all sides and it is true of all peoples as it is based on things from our genetic pasts, which is the distrust of strangers to the tribe.”

Most of the root cause of the state of Homo Sapiens is non-genetic.

It is because the human brain is plastic.

It is the non-genetic inheritance that keeps perpetuating rascism and ignorance.

Young children learn bad things from parents.

They have no idea that it is bad at that time. Some figure it out, but too many never introspect.

The failure to be able to introspect is likely genetic.

See: fully functional frontal cerebral cortex. Mirror neurons.

SpaceLifeForm January 12, 2021 5:52 PM

Days Late Dollar Short Security Theatre

htt ps://

SpaceLifeForm January 12, 2021 6:03 PM

Functioning Mirror Neurons spotted

h t tps://

SpaceLifeForm January 12, 2021 6:47 PM

Rumour: Kentucky Turtle observed to indicate presense of Mirror Neurons.

Purely rumour at this time.

SpaceLifeForm January 12, 2021 7:45 PM

Parler 32 bit Primary Key

640K was not enough

9 Table Bananapants

htt ps://

SpaceLifeForm January 12, 2021 11:47 PM

@ Clive

The CrowdStrike report on SolarWinds is staying under the radar.

Understandably so, given recent events.

While we can understand the angle (reflections upon trusting trust), I doubt it is the full story. It very well may be misdirection.

Winter January 13, 2021 12:47 AM

“The best way to prevent all doubts on results and subsequent protest on 01.06.21 would be actions on the side of SCOTUS:”

Why do you even believe that people who tried to murder the vice-president and the speakers of both houses of parliament would listen to judges? Especially after all state SCs evaluated the “evidence” and rejected the claims?

That is like asking Flat-Earthers during their gatherings to look at the evidence and agree that the earth is round.

And it is not the job of SCOTUS to interfere with the elections in the states. The law is quite explicit about the responsibilities of the states in organizing the elections. If the state has followed their laws, and these laws are within the bounds of the constitution, there is no role for SCOTUS. And I have seen no indication the unconstitutionality of the state laws was even argued.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 13, 2021 1:08 AM



You have to wonder how, what appear to be reasonable people, get caught up in some weird non-sensical movement or event. Some seem to come to these moments in an opportunistic fashion, others are there to achieve what the true believers feel is right and necessary. An attempt to codify and summarize the political theory and the uses of a theocratic framework to subvert and destroy U.S. secular democracy is explored. For some background on some U.S. Senators that have made themselves known by their actions, a brief background as to how they have come to the capital in DC.

Two classes of theocratic dominion-based Christianity is present within the GOP, each and every Senator and over 170 house congressional members. In other words, you are either a “true believer” or you’re exploiting the situation for political purposes. Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz are profiles with each providing and example of the pathologies present in “Theonomy” which begins with a God-head. Prior to characterizing the two senators, the background and nature of this theonomic movement that has engender to itself an outsized claim to all aspects of life is provided. First, the claim to absolute truth and power at the god-head, secondarily that and all others will be the servants and handmaidens to their wishes and needs. This claim is not limited to the United States, it believes it has propriety of the world. This is a mad thesis that could only make for a new James Bond film, not a legitimate structure of governance.

It is easy to see how individuals are drawn to “theonomy” or what is commonly referred to as Christian Nationalism. It is in fact a fascist pyramid scheme with a singular authoritarian figure head. The concentration of power is the primary element, the secondary element claims for itself the righteous and noble task of delivering humanity to the “Kingdom of God”.

In a 2017 speech to the American Renewal Project, Mr. Josh Hawley said, “There is not one square inch of all creation of which Jesus Christ is not Lord.” He continues, “We are called to take our message into every sphere of life that we touch, including the political realm. That is our charge. To take the lordship of Christ, that message into the public realm and seek the obedience of the nations, of our nation.”

TBS — If within the context of the current editorial atmosphere, the submission will be broken into parts in observance to site rules.

Winter January 13, 2021 2:10 AM

Are you surprised? I knew this for decades.

What does surprise me a little, but only a little, is that the very politicians who Trump tries to get murdered, e.g., Pence, Mcconnell, still refuse to stop him.

Clive Robinson January 13, 2021 3:41 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm, ALL,

I know many would think “Why go for impeachment again at this late hour” and in many ways they would be correct.

But in one way they are not. As the article notes,

“Even so, conviction in the Senate would prevent Trump from becoming president again.”

I would expect this to get bipartisan support. Because not only would the door hit Trump on his way out it would lock automatically behind him keeping him out for good.

It’s unknown how much his grifters raked in since Nov, but it’s several hundred million and some think it might have crossed the half billion mark. That would form a good “war chest” should he have decided to try again for President in 2024.

So whilst they would keep him from doing that, would they be able to keep him out of other public office… It’s a question that no doubt some are asking and for good reason.

If they get a conviction which is now much more probable, then Trump can not lie about it, he can try but a conviction of “high crimes” is going to hang around his neck like a life sentence.

In a way it would be ironic Obama left with a Nobel prize that will stay with him for life. Trump… Yup I guess soon some might sing that old Scotish Ballad “Loch Lomond” which has the words “you take the high road, an I’ll take the low road”[1].

There are quite a few in Scotland that will be glad to see Trump shamed, and hopefully gone for good, the last thing they want is more of his nonsense in their back garden.

[1] Contrary to what many think the folk song “Loch Lomand” or “Bonny banks of Loch Lomand” is not a “love song” but one of departing. It’s actually about a Jacobite soldier saying goodbye forever to his “brother”. The soldier captured after the ’45 has been sentanced to hang for treason by the Hanovarian government whilst his brother in arms has been released. The “low road” referes to the belief that where ever you die, your spirit returns to your true home. In reality many died before trial and others were deported to colonies.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 13, 2021 3:43 AM

@ Winter
No, not surprised one lick. I have written on this blog that the political idiots that grab hold of the rails of the trump train will be targeted whether they know it or not. The senators you named are possibly ‘true believers” and you are ahead of the series, a multipart paper on the titled thesis. What isn’t understood is how deep and wide the theonomic minions are inside the halls of government and what the operational details look like.

The propaganda networks like faux and limbo have been stoking this thing for decades…including religious networks like TBN and others.

Clive Robinson January 13, 2021 4:03 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

The CrowdStrike report on SolarWinds is staying under the radar.

Not all radar,

Note how they start by observing that few publicly are going with the US Political “T’is Russia wot dun it”. And were provably making false statments when you examin the time line.

Interestingly it’s Russia’s Kaspersky that’s going out on the limb of attributing it to their government…

Speaking of “time lines” at the bottom of the article they indicate that apparently those SolarWinds shares were sold before the company knew what was going on.

Bob January 13, 2021 4:46 AM

Sad to see all of the removed comments here on this forum, and that this representS a specific agenda as well. You are doing well to prop up evil. Out of only pure love and concern, I pray that my dear brothers and sisters reading this (including the moderator that will remove this) reflect on your own mortality and turn to the living God, Jesus Christ before it is too late. May your path be made straight, and may you realize that you are not able to make it so by your own will.

Clive Robinson January 13, 2021 6:30 AM

@ name.withheld…, winter,

The senators you named are possibly ‘true believers”

Or just playing along as the Orange-U-tan is still by Joseph Stalins meaning “a usefull idiot”.

Some are simplyvplaying a longer game than others.

Pence for instance knows what is most likely to tip the scales in his favour in a couple to three years when nomination time comes around. He need’s to keep the alt-religion on board as they are also his base supporters, so as long as they are still genuflecting towards the Orange-U-Tan then he will play at kissing the ring.

Similar can be said of other Republican Senetors and Representatives.

The vote for the second impeachment can only realy happen it his feet are still under the table in the oval office. Which is why the 25th has not been used. If the vote comes up yes then the upper house is going to have real problems. Not all of the Republicans in there have to worry about alt-religion bible thumpers in fact cozying up to them could be considered harmful…

Thus every one of them are going to be fixated on what the Orange-U-Tan is going to do with what could be half a billion in politically ready cash. Whilst the kochs are effectively dead, old man Mercer has “gone fishing” and the Adelsons god alone knows now that Sheldon has died[1]. That bundle of Orange-U-Tan cash is looking very tempting.

Whilst there are other billionaire would be “king maker” power brokers comming forward[2] nobody knows how much “cash they will splash” and into who’s hole[3].

The huffington post indicated that the Koch and Adelson were much closer than many thought[4].

Which effectively means that the only current known is Mercer’s daughter who has taken up the reigns, and they were ardent Orange-U-Tan boosters.

So whilst the Orange-U-Tan is down currently he is not out.

And if it goes to the judges of the upper house then he stands a very good chance of not being found guilty, simply because “money talks” especially when it’s still in the accuseds pocket…

So large amounts of cash and alt-religion still behind him Orange-U-Tan might be feeling fairly safe right now and ready to jump into things in a different way.

But as I pointed out here long long ago he’s not a Republican, people are still making the mistake of thinking he is. The only thing he cares about politically are his own interests which means that cash might look like a rosey red sweet apple, but it’s most likely pure poison…


[3] In California there is a saying about yachts being “A hole in the water into which you pour money”… Politics is bigger than the largest crusie liners thus the hole is not just bigger at the surface it’s way way deeper effectively bottomless and thus needs a veritable torrent of cash.


Winter January 13, 2021 8:30 AM

“But as I pointed out here long long ago he’s not a Republican,”

Actually, he is not a even politician. He is a reality show host, and that he remained all the time he was “in office”.

Winter January 13, 2021 8:51 AM

“Whilst there are other billionaire would be “king maker” power brokers comming forward[2] nobody knows how much “cash they will splash” and into who’s hole[3].”

Trump gets his money from the Saudis
ht tps://

Faustus January 13, 2021 9:00 AM

I appreciate the comments of supporters of free speech and the Bill of Rights in general. In my opinion, the Bill of Rights, inspired by the.Magna Carta, has in turn inspired much of the positive evolution of the world in the last hundreds of years.

It is.sad to see how many people.have lost faith in its principals of free speech and due process. I wonder what they will think in a year or two when it is their ideas and lives being strangled? Because historically that is how long it takes for those that call for the guillotine to face it themselves.

I’m sure the self righteous verbiage will.continue with only minor understanding of the irony.

Hate doesn’t defeat hate. Name one time that it has. Things are what they are. There is no righteous hate, rationalizations not withstanding.

I never really paid attention to Bruce’s Liars & Outliers, but I think it is a very good book for this moment.

I never really thought about how much trust is required in the elections process, especially when each state has its own process. And in the time of covid the security properties of these processes have generally become more lax.

I think a lot of the right were shocked at how open the elections were to influence, and how loose a lot of elections processes are. This seemingly has always been the case. It seems like tampering has always been a distinct possibility. But jumping from possibility to certainty was the insane leap that led to insane actions.

It is a shame that the us federal system requires elections to be run by each state. One consistent system focused on maintaining trust would benefit everyone.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 13, 2021 9:10 AM

I believe the way to oust the tyrant in the White House is to simply change his name:

Donald J. Trump is really Julian Assange and his alias is Edward Snowden.

Goat January 13, 2021 9:21 AM

All those people vetting free speech should know that social media platforms never are about free speech. They are about free beer and dear money..

Speech on these was never free and even current censorship is a sound business decision.

Also fundamental rights are not exclusive they must be viewed as a whole.

Goat January 13, 2021 9:34 AM

@Peter, See it’s all about PR. Mozilla is asking the right questions on it’s blog but it seems that everyone is part of a cult

Winter January 13, 2021 9:45 AM

“It seems like tampering has always been a distinct possibility. ”

Actually, tampering at elections has always been a myth in the USA. A useful myth to disenfranchise large swats of voters, but a myth nonetheless.

It is easy to see. Three decades of frantic searches by the accusers and believers in “Large Scale Election Fraud” has resulted in nothing but isolated, local small scale fraud. And really not for the lack of trying to find fraud.

Rampant Voter Fraud is like witches of foregone centuries. Everyone was sure they existed and did irreparable harm, but evidence was always just around the corner. And like witch hunters did not need evidence to burn witches, Republicans do not need evidence to bar voters.

Winter January 13, 2021 10:02 AM

“Speech on these was never free and even current censorship is a sound business decision.”

Parler has been in the news quite a lot for banning liberals and people with left-wing comments.

ht tps://

I suspect that few Americans actually want Free Speech. Most seem to only want their own speech to be Free and absolutely not hear contrarian opinions. January 13, 2021 2:37 PM

Seems Gab is gaining traction. Also, they won’t ask for your cell no. I just created an a/c with Gab so I can follow the Donald.

As I just read on the screen Soros backed Antifa / BLM are storming the Capitol.


name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 13, 2021 6:16 PM

The a-hat in the White House is complaining about free speech. That is so interesting, the first amendment was written to secure the rights of a citizen, not a President. If you want to reference a grievance that a article II president might have, seek it there.

And, when a president yells fire in a crowded theatre everyday, you must question both loyalty and fidelity to the constitution sworn to defend. The oath of office is clear, and every one in the MAGA cult that is a representative in congress has failed in that charge; both by the spirit and letter of the law. To protect and defend the constitution, not some malignant narcissist. These people do not know how foolish they both appear and are. They don’t understand the conceptual, let alone the operational problem with holding onto power using circular firing squads.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 13, 2021 6:21 PM

@ Winter


blockquote>I suspect that few Americans actually want Free Speech.Have you been to a MAGA leaning blog or commentary site? Most cannot spell “Free Speech”, let alone defend it.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 13, 2021 6:28 PM

I have always had problem with the privatization of rights, for those with the correct address or resource allocation. First, the interpretation that because a corporation as an entity, and for the purposes of this argument let’s assume a corp is directly equivalent to a citizen (if I had my way, they’d be 3/5’s), can enforce its own rights and deny mine. This seems like inverted totalitarianism to me. Let me go down to the store, by the handcuffs, when I get back I will lock myself in the cell.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 13, 2021 6:41 PM


The wake from the Jan 6 insurrection that threatened to dismantle one branch of the government was from more than a wave crashing on the beach, a tsunami’s leading edge just made shore at the capital. The insurrection was not a failure, it was quite successful but not for the reasons one might think. Congress has been endowed with the necessary instruments to provide for the proper representation of their constituents, but has demonstrated that it cannot provide the necessary environment for themselves. As a “managerial class”, congressional members have been exposed as a failure. Congress has been failing and falling down gradually and consistently for quite some time. It is amazing how much fear this class of privileged servants to the public have of the public, and it is understandable, but not justifiable. Nor is the public justified in a taking, grievance must come loudly from the pen and not the sword. But hey, when a “might makes right” mentality dominates the boundaries of arbitration and dispute resolution, one cannot be surprised with the sound of a metal blade leaving its sheath. Our efforts must be to make this sound impossible to reproduce.

One of the major reasons congressional members fail to answer large and ominous national concerns of its people is not rank partisanship, it is the inability to be held accountable to their constituents in taking a vote, even when it is a voice vote. Campbells or Caterpillar has the ability to access all the congressional districts of interest, and those where they are not involved. Corporations are super citizens, the virtues of infinite life, unbounded scope, and unlimited resources make a mockery of representative governance. House members are made servants to these larger forces, not because they want to, but because they must. It is a version of geopolitics where geography plays no part. The framers did not contemplate the ability of AN ENTITY, such as a company or charter, a citizen to all states and congressional districts. No colonial aristocrat held properties and interests in all of the colonies, let alone all fo the congressional districts.

The history of congress abusing its own processes in order to insure political survival has become so common that it is in fact the operable model. It is funny how congressional members will tout about their constituent services, get forms and applications for services filed and routed to the appropriate bureaucrat. This is fine but it is not a legislative function, it is a make work activity. There are legitimate reasons to request such services, but when it becomes a necessity it is no longer a service. Legislative members should focus on the legal instruments that it promulgates. Laws are written without a sense of scope and time, without scope the courts are the arbiters of legal and procedural meanings. This is somewhat inefficient and makes congress ineffectual. Lawmakers like to believe the making either sweeping declarations or monumental legal doctrine, they have succeeded. But like much in law, such as criminal and civil, there is little attention given to efficacy. The relevance of a law contemplates no injury and courts won’t act without one. Government must balance its corruptible tendencies with concrete steps to make corrections from time to time. The slip into this duplicity between power and money must occasional be measured and tested. I suggest a formal mechanism that will not require loading something into a barrel, unless it is a good whiskey.

Party politics only amplifies and hastens the decision by lawmakers to not take one. It is easier to stump from the comfort of inaction then it is in having to explain how and why you came to this/that or other conclusion. This, in part, makes the perceptible outcomes seem silly and trite. Yes, congress can be in all day naming post offices, but cannot solve or address the crimes of crony capitalism, monied access and propriety, and the devolution of political discourse and the social order due to the contemptuous disregard for the general public and themselves. Those with power, political cause, and the knowledge to know better, don’t. Enlightened self interest, the framers believed, along with competing interests serve as a check and balance, causing those in governance to make thoughtful choses. But today, almost no one can explain what enlightened self interest means let alone the context and intent as set to paper.

Paine, Madison, Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, Franklin, Adams, but not Washington, knew what it meant. These well to do colonial aristocrats were more than well read and learned. There philosophies and theories of government were seared into their thoughts by years of volcanic turmoil that was feed by the rock and water of kingly or priestly rule. Never, had any class of western society turned, or even attempted to turn to a self-ruling class of peoples. At the time of the “American Revolution” all of Europe was experiencing peasant revolts and uprisings. Change in the leadership in France came at either the end of a sword, a rope, or guillotine (the French invented such an instrument as the first voting machine).

The cruelty of power in the modern era is still with us but in more subtle and insidious forms. The technocratic shields, not like those of the 15th century, are held by the government when it was contemplated that the citizen would grasp the device. The government instead has the sword and the shield, the citizen is left to the lord’s land but with a shovel and a rope. The shovel is to dig their grave, and the rope is to tie them to the lord’s land. Governors first instruct the subject to dig a ditch 8 feet deep, 2 feet for the ditch and six feet for yourself.

TBS — If within the context of the current editorial atmosphere, the submission will be broken into parts in observance to site rules.

Trump is not my president January 13, 2021 7:07 PM

@name.with… Handcuffs, you can get them online.

Just buy a netflix subscription

SpaceLifeForm January 14, 2021 1:09 AM

@ Clive, JonKnowsNothing, ALL

As I surmised last spring, it is not going away.

ht tps://

Clive Robinson January 14, 2021 2:43 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

As I surmised last spring, it is not going away.

It was the conclusion I had arived at as well.

There are four out of very many corona viruses that effect humans and they give us “a cold” and they mutate.

MERS is still around but it is zoonotic in origin and as such it can be avoided or controlled.

SARS-1 would still be with us if not for a fatal flaw in it’s make up. That is it stimulatrs the human immune system rather rapidly. Thus you become easily visibly sick with feaver before you become significantly infectious. Thus it was relatively easy to stop by individual quarantine.

SARS-2 is different in that respect something like 1/3rd of those who become infected do so with no real symptoms whilst being highly infectious.

We had a window of opportunity to eradicate this virus but short term thinking by idiots to self entitled and greedy robbed us of the opportunity.

As a result we now provably have zoonotic reservoir species that live wild (Mustelidaes). Whilst we can “cull livestock” any one who has kept small agile roadents will know they have the abillity to escape relatively frrquently. We know that mink have and do escape from farms, thus the likely hood of other species in the same genus becoming infected is probable.

We are hoping to “vaccinate” our way out of this, but the reality is it’s another limited window of opportunity that in particular western nations are again letting pass by.

That is it’s a race “between injection and mutation” and the politicians with their self important self interested short sighted donars / lobbyists / industry groups will once again cause the opportunity to be lost. So the probability is that a mutation will arise that some or all the vaccines will become ineffective against.

Oh and remember the reality is that the two mRNA vaccines are the same vaccine (mRNA strand) the difference is in the delivery mechanism neither of which is particularly robust.

For some reason the only practical alternative is stuck in bureaucratic processes in ways that people are begining to think are very deliberate. So questions are now being asked about “revolving door” industry and political interferance.

Again behaviour that is self entitled short termist thinking, that is endangering the whole worlds population.

Because lets be honest, we do not need another “forever” seasonal respiratory disease which appears to be many times mote leathal than each of the existing ones.

Oh and evolution kind of dictates one thing, the mutation process will favour those those mutations that can infect the maximum number of hosts. Now the first mutation is effectively gone, replaced by one that spread faster in older people in care facilities and the like. Untill very recently we were letting younger people not quarantine for “work” and “education” reasons. So this current more infectious mutation effects the next age range down ie those in the 50s and 60s.

It’s not unreasonable to predict that this “work” and “education” policy will give advantage to any mutation that works better in younger people.

This is what some call an “adaptive response” and it’s why CCTV initially works against crime, then crime evolves around it. But the crime does not stop it is endemic. A point I’ve been making on this blog for years.

Well a vaccine is like CCTV it is a “static defence” the virus is like the criminals it is dynamic and evolves around the static defence if given sufficient time…

The fact that idiot politicians can not grasp these simple concepts kind of tells you just how fit they actually are to run a country…

So unless they “smarten up” then one of two things is going to happen,

1, The virus will be eternal, taking a million or so each year.
2, The virus will become more virulent and thus effectively existential to humans who like other spieces before will become extinct.

Winter January 14, 2021 3:30 AM

“It’s not unreasonable to predict that this “work” and “education” policy will give advantage to any mutation that works better in younger people.”

But it will also select for less virulence. The virus is better of if it’s hosts are less sick. But until then, vaccination is the best policy.

Clive Robinson January 14, 2021 6:57 AM

@ Winter,

But it will also select for less virulence.

That may well not be true.

Firstly we know that a mutation can involve multiple parts of the RNA sequence so of the three things of interest,

1, Infectiousness
2, Virulence
3, Robustness

More than one can be changed for the better or worse.

So it is only if the virulence is such that it causes very short term death that evolution will act against it, but not otherwise for years.

Imagine if you will a mutation prelongs the presymptomatic stage beyond the main viral sheding stage. Evolutionary wise it matters not a jot if you live or die after you cease to be infectious because you can no longer propogate the virus either way. That is you are out of the viruses immediate life cycle as you can not host it any more.

Thus a slow death by organ failure or because it triggers an autoimmune disease makes no difference to the viral evolution in the short to medium (0.5 hunan generation) time.

We know there is an increased probability of triggering autoimmune disease already because of “long COVID”.

So we still do not know the fatality rate of SARS-2 in anything other than the short term. In the UK the official figures are based on a 28day period. But death certificates show that those figures are something like 80% of death certificats that show COVID…

That is some are dying outside of that 28day period, how many and when is not available from the data publicly available.

Winter January 14, 2021 7:06 AM

“That may well not be true.”

Any mutation that leads to more symptoms will lead to earlier detection and more counter measures than mutations that lead to less (severe) symptoms. Over time, that will result in a less virulent strain.

But “over time” might be very long.

There are speculations that the known human coronaviruses that currently are common-cold viruses started out as deadly COVID epidemics.

JonKnowsNothing January 14, 2021 11:05 AM

@Winter @Clive @All

re: App Stores and Apps

There is already a good deal of grumbling about App Stores and the limits of the owners of the stores (Apple, Google) and what is or isn’t in the stores.

There are a good number of legal challenges making their way though the courts.

1) Access to the Store
2) Fees for listing
3) Kickbacks or Rake Offs
4) Tracking embedded systems
5) TOS/EULA challenges
6) JailBreak
7) Side loading

There are a lot of apps out there that are Not In The Store. Having arbitrary service kickoffs without legal recourse or process challenge is going to create more legal suits.

In the USA, unlike other countries, in criminal actions we have the Presumption of Innocence. You are NOT GUILTY until they jury finds that to be the case.

We can all read the chat logs but until those people come to court and are tried, they are Not Guilty.

In the case of corporations exercising their rights of termination of service, this will create a new challenge in the courts. When there are no reasonable alternatives for access to the public market, the courts have frowned greatly on such restrictions. Similar to repressive regimes shutting down newspapers and TV leaving only the Official Channels active.

Courts have previously separated the provider from the content. Challenges can be expected from those affected that are better financed.

SCOTUS is heavily loaded on the Conservative – No Change – Pro Commerce side of the scale. They are not likely to be inclined to make any radical or progress changes in this area of law.

Winter January 14, 2021 12:35 PM

” Having arbitrary service kickoffs without legal recourse or process challenge is going to create more legal suits.”

If companies are forced to carry apps or supply services against their business interests, i.e., they become utilities, then the community must share in the costs and will have to supply the means to enforce the rules.

Obligations come with rights, that holds for companies too.

All those objecting to Big Tech having the last word on who gets access conveniently forget that someone will have to make that decision. If not the companies, then the executive and the courts.

And the law is pretty clear. Inciting to commit violence is illegal.

Faustus January 14, 2021 1:54 PM


As covid lockdown has driven me into the right wing blogosphere I can see there are many levels and a denizen of one may not be aware of the others.

I thought Parler was pretty tame until I typed in #freedom and found myself amidst militias. I shook my head and hit BACK. I’m sure many that stumble on extreme content do the same and further forget they even saw it.

No free speech person I have seen supports direct criminal incitement as free speech, though they probably exist in some layer of the blogosphere. Check out redstate dot com for intelligent right wing articles with correct spelling.

Clive Robinson January 14, 2021 3:13 PM

@ Tatütata,

Large bitcoin payments to right-wing activists a month before Capitol riot linked to foreign account

What is the betting that the source of this money will be shown to have come through a cut-out some how linked to one of the nations on the US Cyber-Existential-Threat list?

This sort of thing was done by Cambridge Analytica when illegal payments were made into certain pro-brexit political fringe organisations, and Russia was initially blaimed.

But as it was being investigated by the UK Met Police, apparrntly so the information at the time indicated they got past the Rissian cut-tout and one of the Mercer Clan (who boosted Trump in the GOP) became on the likely suspect list. Then apparently according to questions lodged in Parliment, the then Prime Minister Mrs May’s government told the Met Police to stop investigating…

It will be interesting to see what pops out of the wood work this time.

MarkH January 14, 2021 3:22 PM

Clive having suggested that gremlins in the commenting function have subsided, I’m giving it a try …

It’s Even Worse Than it Seemed at First

A member of the House of Representatives, Lauren Boebert (who seems to carry a gun on her person at all times) tweeted the location within the Capitol building of the Speaker of the House while the siege was underway.

It’s hard for me to account for this, other than the hypothesis that Boebert intended to assist the invaders in capturing the Speaker either as a hostage, or victim of assassination.


On the day before the siege, member of the House Mikie Sherrill (a veteran naval aviator) noticed groups of people walking inside the Capitol complex who (a) didn’t appear to work there and (b) felt suspicious to her.

There have been no public tours of the Capitol since March as a pandemic precaution. Persons who don’t work in the Capitol can only be admitted by a legislator, or a member of legislative staff.

Sherrill was sufficiently concerned that she had a member of her staff notify the Sergeant at Arms (an official responsible for Capitol security).

The next day, when the Capitol was invaded, Sherrill recognized some of those suspicious visitors among the faces of the attackers.

It’s worth noting here that the architecture of the Capitol has a maze-like quality, and that even veteran legislators sometimes get lost in its corridors. Accordingly, navigation through the building is not trivial.

Some of the attackers seemed to know quite accurately how to get to their target areas. Representative Sherrill’s opinion is that those day-before visits were reconnaissance missions, and necessarily required the participation of at least one legislator or legislative staff person.


There it is. Substantive indications that 1/6 was an inside job — that incitement and support of armed insurrection was not limited to POTUS.

SpaceLifeForm January 14, 2021 3:55 PM

@ Clive, Winter, JonKnowsNothing

A new variant has popped up in Ohio.

Not the same as the recent new variant in UK.

We are looking at a global petri dish, where the mutations will appear in spite of selective pressure.

Because the petri dish is so large, the same mutations will most certainly occur at some point spread over disparate geographical locations.

Eventually, everyone will be infected with some variant. Probably close to that point now.

Eventually, the mutations will reach a global steady state. Every winter springing into action.

I doubt that any vaccine is going to work past a 6 month timeframe.

Your only defense is Vitamin D, fresh air, and restful sleep.

JonKnowsNothing January 14, 2021 4:11 PM


A) If companies are forced to carry apps or supply services against their business interests, i.e., they become utilities,

B) And the law is pretty clear. Inciting to commit violence is illegal.

For A:
As laws vary by country and alter frequently, each country will be looking at how their systems are either protected or not both physically and legally. Some countries have already decided that companies == governments == companies and act accordingly.

The USA has been moving towards this view for some time. This system has an official name which is not used due to historical problems with it, someone will no doubt find an alternative name soonerish.

For B:
Companies are not judge jury or executioners of the law. They may define their rules of business or areas in which they do business or they types of business they engage in. The USA has many laws about such things, what you can or cannot do, where you can do it and where you cannot, to whom you can sell and who you cannot sell to. These laws start at the local levels and move up the chain to national and international levels.

Companies are not judges and companies have no any rights to act as law enforcement, other than when they are under directives of the law enforcement agencies. LEAs can keep an illegal company on-line in order to harvest data for future prosecutions or for kompromat. Companies can be forced to terminate access by LEA directives even if the target has violated no aspects of TOS/EULA or other company dictates.

Ceding Legal Authorities to corporations who’s only responsibilities are to share holders and to maximizing wealth (primarily to the top echelons) would be a very poor trade off in the USA.

The USA will be reviewing both A and B soon enough. I would not suggest you hold your breath for any changes in either areas. It is possible but remote.

xcv January 14, 2021 4:17 PM

@ MarkH

A member of the House of Representatives, Lauren Boebert (who seems to carry a gun on her person at all times) tweeted the location within the Capitol building of the Speaker of the House while the siege was underway.

It’s hard for me to account for this, other than the hypothesis that Boebert intended to assist the invaders in capturing the Speaker either as a hostage, or victim of assassination

The present speaker of the house refuses to support the Constitutional right of ordinary Americans to defend themselves in their own homes.

She cannot expect any aid or comfort from any of us Americans who support and uphold our Constitution.

SpaceLifeForm January 14, 2021 4:32 PM

@ Clive, Winter, JonKnowsNothing

I warned against this security theatre.

That it can be hacked, and be useless.

But, hey, profit!

JonKnowsNothing January 14, 2021 5:08 PM

@SpaceLifeForm Clive Winter All

re:COVID-19 variant alphabet soup

Since folks started to notice that variants make a different, there is an explosion of names used to denote them.

Scientists are allowed to name their variants however they want and they use different names for a variety of reasons. Local naming conventions, research protection, historical naming methods etc.

Sometimes these overlap and one group may rename an area to suit themselves and their research systems.

It is well beyond my pay grade to figure it all out. Particularly since atm, the USA is rather busy-bees putting down putsches and cord wooding the dead.

The best method to sort it out is to find the name of the region that has mutated. B. is not a mutation point, it is a lineage definition and subject to name change.

  453 = hCOV-19 numbering / 440 = SARS numbering == It’s the same spot.

N501 is a mutation point and there are good number of known mutations that happen in this change. But N501 in UK (B1117) has differences from N501 in Brazil.

These sub-differences are what’s making things difficult to follow.

Lineage forks are just like source code forks, they mark a significant shift in the ancestry of a virus. They read Left to Right. B (fork) to 1 (fork) to 1(fork) etc. At the base are nodes (7) indicating there are 6 other variants that share identical heritage up to the last fork.

The DNA shifts are within lineages and this is where things get murky. Exactly which DNA bits do what and why is often a guarded secret at high levels. Sometimes a bit weeps out.

Zho…. it’s not new news but it’s news often kept hidden from the public.

N501 (several versions with different names)
E484K (re-infection mutation)
Y453F (5 versions with names F-spike)

Deletions these together these make the virus more contagious.

and many more.

It’s important to notice that the Letters indicate shifts. E484K is not the exact same shift as E484Q, E484A, E484R. These pesky letters have a lot to do with the impact of the change.

It’s the sub portions that have importance now, there is a section that makes the virus highly contagious, there are A LOT of known sections that make the virus Antibody Resistant, there are some that alter the shape of the spike protein portion which in targeted by the vaccine jabs.

As the global pool of COVID begins to settle into countries, there will be more mutations that are region specific. Once these regional difference become standard it will mean COVID-Forever and your vaccination may or may not help you if you travel out of your zone.

Given that we are still not stopping the planes and there’s a revolt in the USA over wearing a health mask in public. COVID mutations here will be fighting for hosts and the best mutation will win. It won’t be the mutation in Australia, or New Zealand ’cause they don’t have COVID there.

Australia and New Zealand have a serious future problem, one that the two governments have different plans for. Australia is desperate for plane travel and their Australian Open Tennis Tournament is already full of imported COVID. New Zealand may be able to hold out longer as they have a better orientation to what’s at stake, even though they have their own No-Maskers too.

They may find that they will need more than 1 vaccine to protect their country from inbound COVID infections. Perhaps many required vaccinations depending on origination.

  • Reports today are that vaccines are good for @6months, the same duration as natural antibody protections from survival.

lurker January 14, 2021 5:58 PM

Four “renderer” bugs in Google Chrome.
A pair of sandbox escape exploits.
A “privilege escalation kit”.

Way to go, Google…

SpaceLifeForm January 14, 2021 6:01 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing, Clive, Winter, MarkH, All

It’s RNA, not DNA. But you know that. Easy mistake. And it very appreciated that you are staying on top of this.

I sincerely respect your contributions.

It is only thru communication that we can solve problems. Even when one misreads or misunderstands something, if they are willing to look at the subject from another angle, and accept alternate arguments, and realize that they may have misread, and accept that they may have been incorrect, do we make progress.

Been there, done that. Got the T-Shirt.

It really is OK to be wrong but then accept you were misled and admit it.

The main problem is those that are locked into their delusion, and can not even entertain alternate points of view.

Mirror Neurons are really a thing.

SpaceLifeForm January 14, 2021 8:01 PM

@ Clive, ALL

Intent is a thing. Just saying.

Prosecutor: “His car malfunctioned, and he got here late.” (to DC insurrection)

Just google it. Klasfeldreports.

These are the nutcases that have no functioning Mirror Neurons.

Just not thinking.

JonKnowsNothing January 14, 2021 9:30 PM


re: Open Carry Gun permits

iirc The person flapping the gun about in D.C was told they needed a permit for it by the local authorities.

This person made a big hoohaa about having the gun and implied they would take “to work”. Later they had to walkback some of that bluster to say it was for traveling to-from work.

There are lots of rules and carry permits are different in every state and sometimes by location within states and federal. There’s an entire department dedicated to “verifying and authorizing” such permits. It’s not a drive-thru process.

Additionally, if they want a concealed permit, that’s another entire process.

Such permits do not cross over state lines or authorized areas. If you mess up and cross a the line you go to jail big time.

iirc(badlY) A long while ago, a person with a licensed conceal carry permit traveled on the freeway and crossed briefly into another state on the way to elsewhere. It was a short distance to the next border. A local cop pulled over the person and the person readily informed the officer of the concealed weapon and permit. It was not for that state.

The courts slammed the jail door shut with a thud.

I was surprised that the congress person wasn’t picked up immediately.

PSA January 14, 2021 10:36 PM

@ ALL, Clive, Anders, Lurker

From the Department of Redundancy Department.

The FBI does NOT want anyone to tweet information.


One person has already been falsely accused that was far away.

SpaceLifeForm January 15, 2021 12:32 AM


For some reason (cough), Palm Beach County seems to have forgotten about this thing. It’s called Eminent Domain.

Winter January 15, 2021 12:50 AM

“Companies are not judge jury or executioners of the law.”

But when they become utilities are obliged to take all customers whether they want to or not, they will be given the task to enforce the rules (and law).

If you are not allowed to choose your customers, there will be rules what customers can and cannot do. And you are the one selected to enforce these rules.

MarkH January 15, 2021 1:24 AM


I don’t want to get out in front of news reports in which I have reasonable confidence.

Predictions that Agent Orange would not leave office without bloodshed probably predate his election in 2016, but have certainly abounded in the past year. It seems to be just who he is, and it would be surprising had it gone otherwise.

Accordingly, I don’t expect to learn anything surprising about his thinking or intent.

In contrast, the pig’s breakfast of terrorist groups who came to DC, and their conspiracies with government officials, may prove to be complex and intricate.

Fortunately for justice and the prospect of treating this malignancy, the faction allied with these perpetrators — and their alliance is perhaps much closer than most of us can understand today — will not be in control of the processes of investigation and prosecution (thank God for Georgia!).

Further, even those of us who know that such gangsters are on average painfully stupid, are still frequently surprised how acute their stupidity can be.

Quite a lot will become public.

SpaceLifeForm January 15, 2021 1:32 AM

@ name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons, ALL (Yes, ALL OF YOU)

What occurred on 2021-01-06 is tied to 2001-09-11.

Everyone needs to understand that.

Do not believe the misdirection you will hear or read in coming days.

Make sure your Mirror Neurons are functioning.

Vitamin D, fresh air, restful sleep.


Just DO IT!

SpaceLifeForm January 15, 2021 1:54 AM

@ name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons, Clive

A comment I made must have been too on point. Way on point!

I like the confirmation about something I’ve been saying for years.

Arr ess eh is dead.

Got some dummies in IC, and they have reading comprehension problems.

C’mon guys. I am here to help. This is not a Wendys.

(clean your keyboards)

Winter January 15, 2021 2:02 AM

“Arr ess eh is dead.”

Sorry, but your last two comments are incomprehensible (too me). Are these secret messages only intended to be comprehensible for the initiate? Or is this and accident?

And why the mirror neurons? All primates (and at least some birds) have them and they have nothing to do with empathy.

Reflecting January 15, 2021 2:45 AM

@ Winter

Being pedantic here

‘and accident’ should be ‘an accident’

Besides that, carefully re-parse what you already read. One sentence at a time.

(it’s all good, as you are. messing with ai here)

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons January 15, 2021 3:52 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm
Yes, disaster capitalism–when catastrophe strikes, don’t waste the opportunity. The power grab that has been a function of security HORROR theater is but part of a play. I have enumerated the players in the underlying power struggle and their objectives…they are not honest brokers. But I bet that is obvious.

Now for some more treacherous news and analysis…

On the floor of the U.S. House chamber, Boebert gave an incendiary speech and before starting into her tirade, she made a shocking statement, “…it is my SEPARATE BUT EQUAL obligation…” Her comments includes the summation from the Dred Scott decision in the 1850’s and none of the punditry caught it. This was just prior to the invasion of the House by the traitorous mob outside and her disclosures of the Speakers locations. She must be disarmed, disbarred, and disbanded as a member of congress. She has failed to keep fidelity to the oath of office, especially the “without mental reservation of purpose of evasion”.

Wake the “whatever you have to do…” up people. This is not a movement, this is an incitement to the demise of us all. The MAGA chuds don’t understand the ramifications of their actions, will be injured by this fallow 5th century thinking. All of the tyrannical regimes end up consumed by paranoia and psychosis as their ability to discern truth spirals out of control within their own ranks. Having chosen a destructive strategy to hold onto power, that illegitimate act set about by lies and coercion will work to undermine their own ranks. What happens when you put a group of pathological liars into a room with a gun in the center of a table, and lock the door just before turning out the lights?

Clive Robinson January 15, 2021 4:04 AM

@ Winter,

I guess “Speak like a Pirate day” has not made it into continental Europe…

Think “Pirate Speak” where “Arrgh” sounds like “R”
“hesss” sounds like “S”
“Hay” sounds like “A”.

MarkH January 15, 2021 4:07 AM


What happens when you put a group of pathological liars into a room with a gun in the center of a table, and lock the door just before turning out the lights?

Masterfully said!

Even if Boebert is part of a criminal conspiracy, the evidence to prove this to a jury might not be obtainable.

If the DoJ were able to prove such a case, however, expulsion from the House might be the least of her worries.

If she gets marched into a different kind of house wearing an orange jumpsuit and leg irons, I’m afraid she won’t be allowed to bring her guns along.

The reference to Dred Scott is shocking, but not surprising. The FBI identified seven separate white supremacist organizations as having participated in the attack on the Capitol.

Winter January 15, 2021 4:08 AM

“I guess “Speak like a Pirate day” has not made it into continental Europe…”

Not really. But then, I sit at home all day, every day.

Winter January 15, 2021 4:32 AM

“The reference to Dred Scott is shocking, but not surprising. ”

No, it is not. To many on the right, Black Lives do not Matter.

What does surprise me is the stupidity of this uprising.

If you want to overthrow government and install a new President, you should at the least have the support of (enough) of the Armed Forces/Police/Secret Services.

None of this support is even remotely likely.

Anyone dreaming of founding a new dynasty should tighten connections with the important sectors of society, e.g., industry, finance, middle class. But Trumpism almost completely depends on support from the rural lower SES levels (the “deplorables”). Their support in the industrial areas is small.

So, what is their “plan”? Is there a plan?

Goat January 15, 2021 7:32 AM

Wikipedia turns 20!! Let’s help it become even better, make an improvement every time you can.

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