echo August 14, 2020 4:27 PM


blockquote>The US is threatening Germany with crushing sanctions if it continues with the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline. How bad are relations between the two sides?

Comments by Kirsten Westphal of the German Institute for International and Security Affairs: “Extra-terratorial sanctions. US applying domestic law outside its own borders. Going too far in both legal and poltical terms. Geo-economic rivalry with an ally. Causes damage to the energy markets and creates a loss of credibility.”

Erik Kirschbaums’ of LA Times comments about only “three senators” (from three oil states) missesthe point that US politicians at a state level have unlawfully influenced US financial regulators to apply pressure making life impossible for American women to by abortion pills. He is also missing how the US used this same mechanism to indirectly apply threats during trade negotiations with Far-Eastern countries in a previous decade and also apply pressure on third party countries to block their lawful trade with Iran after the US broke the nuclear agreement.

Michael Thumann of Die Zeit flip flops…

echo August 14, 2020 4:56 PM

Almost seven thousand people have been detained since president Lukaschenko claimed electoral victory – and sparked public anger. Now, thousands of people are back on the streets of the Belarusian capital Minsk – for a fifth day of protests against a violent crackdown on demonstrations. It follows the disputed presidential election on August 9, 2020. In many parts of the city, protesters formed human chains, filling squares and lining avenues. These post-election protests in Belarus were also at the top of the agenda at talks between the German and Norwegian foreign ministers in Berlin today.

If there’s one thing I can’t stand it’s men wearing cheap suits and bad architecture. Blaming “criminals” and the unemployed seems like a rather weak response for a “tough guy” dictator.

US Presidential hopeful Ron DeSantis in Florida doesn’t seem too many steps removed from this scenario himself.

The UK has its share of thick as mince Tory “tough guys” too like IDS.

As for Poland…

Britain’s most unflushable war buff has taken to the beaches on a one-man mission to drag No 10 further to the right

This is probably the sharpest and funniest takedown of the toad faced Nazi fluffer.

Downing Street is pressing ahead with a radical centralisation of communications that will hand unprecedented control to No 10 and could lead to hundreds of job losses.

Down Street is trying to create a “Whitehouse” style press office to size even greater control of the narrative. I’m sure lots of “gravel voice of authority” and that standing shoulder to shoulder schtick at the podium will be on offer. Downing Street and our own very dodgy Attorny General have been manipualting and deleting and handwaving hard not only to maintain control of the narrative but I’m sure dissappear a few things and lazy the ground behind the scenes for their own legal defences as and when inquiries or court cases begin.

SpaceLifeForm August 14, 2020 5:51 PM

Memo to US voters:

Do NOT vote by mail. Do NOT REQUEST a mail-in ballot.

If you do request a mail-in ballot, but never receive it, you may be disenfranchised at your poll station.

Unless you live in Florida, Texas, Arizona, or Kentucky.

The mail sorting machines ALSO apply the POSTMARK.

Tatütata August 14, 2020 7:52 PM

Scientists have edited the genome of the Doryteuthis pealeii squid with CRISPR. A first.

Squids should enable UEFI at once. 🙂

The mail sorting machines ALSO apply the POSTMARK.

I bet there will be an order to immediately destroy all manual franking tools around October 15th, in case anyone tries to remit their ballot at the postal counter…

The US is threatening Germany with crushing sanctions if it continues with the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline. How bad are relations between the two sides?

To top this up, the new ambassador to Berlin, a former general, is a USDA Choice fruitcake.

OTOH, the Nordstream project is a bad idea on many levels, and there are plenty of reasons to reject it, but the US motives probably have very little to do with them. I think it has a lot more to do with the flagging fracking industry…

US foreign policy seems to have taken a scorched earth slant in the last months, the pipeline story isn’t the only example.

JonKnowsNothing August 14, 2020 8:05 PM

The fun one can have with Google Translate

Although it’s better than it was, Google Translate or any translation system that uses open-ended language as input-output is bound to have some serious problems.

Real Life translators can get into the deep end quick and many years ago, a US President was visiting one of the old line countries and the translator made a hash of “America Loves You” as “America Lusts After You” (which is actually a better version of what was meant) and it got a big laugh.

However, making a gaff with Google isn’t too hard. Some recent examples of Failed AI in Action.

A twitter war erupted with insults flying fast and landing far from the target over the translation of:

Olé tus cojones
Oler tus cojones

Sean Hannity proving again that US Education does not follow the European Classical School but the USA Liberal Arts Method. US Schools have not taught Latin, Greek or Cursive Writing for a long while. Rome will recover her Eagles and Greece will restore the Golden Fleece before that changes.

Hannity’s book featured a Latin subtitle:

vivamus vel libero perit Americae

supposed to mean

“live free or America dies”

but actually translates to

“Let’s live or he … passes away from America for the detriment of a free man”

It was pointed out the incorrect Latin had been arrived at by putting “live free or America dies” into Google Translate.

Hannity attempted to fix this with

“Vivamus liberi ne America pereat”

which ends up as

‘Let us live free so that America will not die’

With two strikes on the count, Hannity removed the Latin subtitle from the book.

And then there is the grammatical error in the Trump Family plus the issue of the Oxford Comma and the Guardian Editorial Style Guide of Covid-19.

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name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 14, 2020 8:35 PM

@ All
Just wanted to score one more in the gray and bearded column for those keeping track/score. If wisdom visits any of us we are indeed lucky (not in the random chance type, the rarity form). The proof is provided all around us, in far too stark and vivid detail–makes one feel less well then one would hope.

Sherman Jay August 14, 2020 11:44 PM

The fun one can have with Google Translate

A year or two ago, there was a website where you could key in an english phrase and it would automatically run it through g00gle translate turning it into a foreign phrase and then it would turn right around and run that foreign phrase back through g00gle into english. The results were scary and hilarious!

Also, regarding Arizona vote by mail, from personal experience (oh, oh, I’ve now given away my location, help, the gestapo is coming for me!):
the pre-addressed postage paid blank ballots are sent through the usps. They arrive without any postmark. When you send your ballot back in the postage paid envelope it probably also doesn’t get a postmark. And, a usps office manager said to me: when ballots are sent in to the election office in plain envelopes, in the interests of the success of the system, they will deliver it even if it doesn’t have the correct postage.

And, Oregon has all by-mail elections. When we lived there that worked beautifully.

And, both states have an online system where you can key in the unique ballot code and verify it has been received and counted (but no vote results or other personal info is included).

Also, in the u.s. it is a terrible rats’ nest of ancient electro-mechanical optical scanning machines, lever-pull machines and touchscreens. Most have poor security measures (if any at all). And the most voter fraud has been from manipulation of the voting machines (either on site or when data is transmitted to the central election office. However, the biggest fraud was accomplished by the court system when they prevented the florida count to complete and caused Al Gore to lose the presidential election.

Sherman Jay August 15, 2020 12:02 AM

RE: security of u.s. elections:
the biggest current threat is that the ‘orange menace’ has been putting vicious destructive gnomes in charge of the usps. They are removing sorting machines from usps offices, have ordered 1st class mail to take a back seat to amaz0n mail, have cut all overtime, etc.

The usps would be making a profit except that a couple of years ago u.s. congress mandated that they ‘pre-pay employee pensions’ for many years into the future.

The ‘orange menace’ and the corrupt congress critters want to privatize the usps (giving it to the for profit carriers whose service already sucks and is not secure.) And, the ‘orange menace’ said he wouldn’t sign a recovery bill that included money to save the usps. Then, more recently he said he would — but that is deceitful, since the senate is in recess and no bills will be sent to him to sign for weeks, at least.

The security of our societal systems is being compromised in all respects. People are losing their jobs and can’t afford food or rent, crowds are running rampant with no social distancing or masks. There is no real leadership, all the governers are making things up as they go. The mainstream media makes everything a matter of ‘opinion’ while distorting Science and medical facts. There is no leadership at the federal level just insanity. People I know are now as afraid of the militarized police and their militant violence as they are of anything else.

JonKnowsNothing August 15, 2020 2:14 AM

@Clive @MarkH @All

re: Pan-Famine Pork Chops and COVID19

In previous posts there are discussions about the various fatal diseases of pigs which are causing large problems in pork production cycle.

One of the bad-3 is African Swine Fever virus (ASF/ASFV), which is a hemorrhagic fever and entire populations of pigs must be immediately culled.

In March 2020 one outbreak in China “hit 40 million small-scale pig farmers” which are traditional suppliers of extra protein. Millions of pigs were culled and small scale pig farmers did not recover from the financial impact when compared with the large scale industrial government backed farm systems.

One of the concerns about ASF is that the pathogen remains viable for a long time in the environment and outbreaks require full mass culls. Large scale producers with access to modern veterinary care sometimes can deal with basic issues that a small farmer cannot. However, ASF when it hits a big scale farm, means millions of dead pigs and dealing with the environmental hazard that scales up with the size of the production plant.

COVID19 also adds another factor when abattoirs/slaughterhouses become infected and close down or reduce the daily kill rate. Modern farm producers time delivery to slaughter within a few days. Most are contract farmers who do not own the animals or the feed and are paid like Gig Economy workers to raise the pigs and feed them according to a set schedule. When delivery time comes the feed is gone and the animals are supposed to be gone too. When the slaughterhouse shuts down, the entire production run and timing back up and deliveries are halted. The farmer has no food and doesn’t own the animals and it remains the corporate owner’s decision what to do. In the USA one farmer built a portable killing unit that he hauls to neighboring farms when the slaughterhouse refuses delivery and the owners order a cull.

Such shutdowns have happened and are happening as COVID19 pounds the dense working conditions in meat and chicken production lines. A current shutdown in a packing plant in Victoria AU is likely to result in a large scale cull of pigs, chickens with lamb and beef to follow if the shutdown lasts too long.

What that means is: that meat does not make it to market. There is a time-delay in animal production from months to years depending on the animal. There is no make-up production.

Lamb slaughter:
  five year weekly high: 220,000
  last week: 98,000

China has proposed a massive investment in industrial pig farming in Argentina.

$3.5bn (£2.7bn) investment that will generate $2.5bn in annual pork exports

China hopes that South American pork can make up for its bruising losses after the recent spread of African swine fever (ASF) through its own hog herd, killing millions of animals. A survey of 1,500 Chinese pig farms last year showed that 55% had abandoned plans to raise pigs again because of the risk of future disease.

China is outsourcing the risk of a repetition of such outbreaks by moving production offshore

Because ASF remains active in soil and contaminated feed and production areas for a long time, farmers in China risk having repeated ASF outbreaks and culls. Moving the entire operation overseas to a “clean area” with the export going direct to China is an economic win for China, but a potential environmental hazard for Argentina.

An example of how a simple quarantine slip can make for disaster both for COVID19 and the global food chain, a cargo ship with 58,000 sheep was rejected by the importer and 3,000 sheep died from starvation and thirst when the boat was sent back to the exporter.

Prior to export, the sheep are inspected by a veterinarian and certified that they have the proper health and vaccinations required. Some of the sheep did not have the required vaccinations and had Rift Fever a contagious disease in sheep and humans. These animals were pulled from the pens and were not to be included as part of the export cargo. Some of the excluded animals were removed from the quarantine pens and transported to the destination anyway.

Once at the destination, it didn’t take long to find that the sheep did not meet the import requirements and the entire load was refused. The ship did not have enough food or clean water for the animals to make the return trip and at least 3,000 died from deprivation.

Such exchanges are not unknown in the live-animal transport business and there have been attempts to limit or halt live transport but currently it is still an allowed practice.

The dovetail problems of COVID19 and food shortages caused by poor farming practices (small farm or industrial behemoths) and the issues of workplace safety for food production workers and harvesters globally has impacted most countries that rely on large scale production, import and export.

Existing warehouse surplus can make up for some things in the short term but the long term outlook may not be as rosy as governments claim.

@Clive and others have many good suggestions on how to stock up and how to make do with less when there isn’t any to be found in the markets. You cannot eat what you do not have. If you have more than you need you can donate it to someone who can use it or the local food pantry. If you never need it, you can still give it to someone who will be more than grateful to have a meal they would otherwise not have at all.

China is not spending $3.5bn (£2.7bn) to build pig farms that will generate $2.5bn in exports (to China), increasing the Argentine pork production by an additional 200,000 tons a year because they have a surplus of food. They are spending it because they have a shortage and they can no longer farm pork reliably due to continuous outbreaks of diseases.

You might want to investigate your local zoning ordinances on having 1 or 2 hens as “pets”. Many locals will allow them as “pets” and having a source of eggs is a good reason. Many jurisdictions do NOT allow chickens, which are considered livestock-poultry so before you buy or invest, make sure you know the rules.

As the pandemic rolls along the effect on world wide hunger will increase and exposes our reliance on rigid inflexible and vulnerable farming and growing systems

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name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 15, 2020 4:07 AM

To man -S 1, or not to man -M /usr/share/man/man1. That is the question.

Under Mac OSX two man pages in section 1, man1, within the sub-section STANDARDS seems odd; one is for the date command and the other is for the OS plutil command executable.

For Section 1, sub section STANDARDS for OS executable /bin/date :
The date utility is expected to be compatible with IEEE Std 1003.2

For Section 1, sub section STANDARDS for OS executable /usr/bin/plutil :
The plutil command obeys no one’s rules but its own.

Is there an inherent bifurcation or schism in the application of standards, within standards; “obeys no one’s rules but its own.” Somewhat weak QA and manual review process, or, doth protest too much.

carrie August 15, 2020 5:21 AM

As DEC machines and their eastern clones were mentioned on last week’s squidd here some trivia and a request:

In the 1980ies DEC hardware was also directly sold into the USSR via the Vienna Austria DEC branch. There was a scandal when a container with several VAXen was discovered in Sweden (source: some older Bamford). At the same time the early versions of VMS had a particular security bug allowing program access to the SYSUAF.DAT user authorization file even without proper permissions: Even when the open call returned an error the file was opened and a file handle assigned. (FI of the later born: this was the times when OSs were properly developed and tested BEFORE delivery and security updates were a rare exception). All references to this bug seem to have vanshed from the internet so can the old foxes please provide some additonal information and (citable) references?

myliit August 15, 2020 6:09 AM

@Wesley Parish

“This just popped up on Slashdot today:
“You Probably Won’t Catch the Coronavirus From Frozen Food”” [1] [2]

Thanks for that post. I have enough to worry about, as do others on the blue planet. I hate to worry about my smoothies. [3]

[1] NYT headline
[3] my unscientific wild assed guess (USWAG) is to be most concerned about airborne transmission and being indoors with other people

myliit August 15, 2020 6:40 AM

Found on @emptywheel this morning:

“Russia seems unpersuaded by
@IgnatiusPost’s tough talk.

‘Frank Figliuzzi
· Jul 31
“Trump is ours”: Russian Media Is Giddy at Chaos in the USA, Claims ‘America’s Dying’ ⁦ ‘ and

“ The LAT has a big scoop [ ] on some criminal referrals the Senate Intelligence Committee made on July 19, 2019. The biggest news is that SSCI referred Steve Bannon for his unconvincing story about his Russian back channel — though it’s likely that Bannon cleaned up that testimony in January 2019. …”

Curious August 15, 2020 7:51 AM

I guess it isn’t a surprise to me, but still, I thought it was interesting how new cameras for photography, afaik, not only have a wifi feature, but I think can/will upload each photo a couple of sconds after the a photo is taken, to some storage device. Maybe it is just me but, to be designing a feature like seems like an obvious privacy issue, and more importantly, I think one can imagine how a government might want to design snooping/surveillance stuff based off merely such tech existing/being used, if they have a propensity for just “collecting it all”.

Having said that, I don’t have a good idea if this kind of feature with automatic uploading of photos to a storage device by wifi is truly a novely or not, so maybe old news.

Clive Robinson August 15, 2020 7:55 AM

@ echo and the usual suspects,

As you’ve probably worked out I have an interest in our solar system as it relates to the Earth and in particular how it effects society in it’s function and security.

What many do not realise is just how odd space in the solar system is. That is most have heard “the vaccum of space” and assume it’s kind of empty…

Some are shocked to learn that there are flecks of paint whizzing around up there at speeds where the impact energy would be sufficient to punch through the side of a family car or worse.

Then when they learn about cascade effects of objects in space breaking up many think well atleast it can not get to us down here as it will “burn up in the atmosphere” along with shooting stars… They then get a further shock when they get told just how much actually does make it down to earth and that there’s probably some up on their roof or in their garden (but don’t tell them about the tardigrades 😉

But few I suspect know anything about “Space Weather” and that in reality the solar system in which we orbit is actually in the Sun’s extended atmosphere. It’s actually space weather that should “scare us” more than microscopic or large lumps of matter hitting the ground, because generally we will get more than sufficient warning to be able to “react” in time to some largish lump of matter. Not so space weather where if we are not “proactive” much of our society in the first world and most especially North America will get critically effected.

A little over a century and a half ago when Victorian society still more or less ran on “horses and coal” Space Weather came a knocking with what is now called the Charrington Event. The little electrical technology that was in use in society the “telegraph” got quite baddly effected and that was just wires and batteries… It’s been said in recent times if we had a Charrington Event today the result would be,

    We would be thrown back to the early Victorian era, but without the horses or steam engines.

There are few people who can actually realise what that means for society, put simple modern cities and towns would become death traps within a few days without power and communications we would not have gas or water. Old diseases we thought were only “third world” would be back with us along with starvation and much worse, that would make our current serious COVID issues look trivial.

Anyway the UK’s Royal Institution famed amongst UK proto-geeks for it’s Christmas Lectures also gives other lectures,

This one from Dr Lucie Green of University College London’s (UCL) Mullard Space Science Laboratory about Space Weather is an introduction to what is a very new and rapidly evolving field of science,

For those that think Space Weather might not be relevant to ICTsec, a little fact for you, Space weather effects not just power and communications networks it also effects satellites quite strongly. Amongst which are the various Global Positioning Satellite Systems that appart from telling you where you are and what direction you are heading which is kind of useful to aircraft and ships if you don’t want them crashing into things also provides the technological world with time references. These time refrences actually underly many of our security standards, protocols thus systems we rely on not just for the internet and phone systems but also so our food etc gets into shops money into banks etc…

echo August 15, 2020 11:23 AM


Yes, the whole space ecosystem is a bit of a thing. I did post a video which explored preparation from the next Carrington event. This hit the ground with a thud…

Some problems back then don’t exist while others do. In some respects it’s a big deal in others hardly noticeable. Some countries have made some preparations while others haven’t. It’s all a bit ad-hoc. Someone somewhere needs to do a risk analysis but we how how tardy the government is with equality impact assessments and trying to do things on the cheap.

The exercises have been done and proven society would break down in three days after loss of electricity and water supply and food supplies. I suspect if it was really bad and no preparation had taken place lethal force would be authorised before the end of the first week. It would be the quick way out.

Vote nasty stupid Tory, get nasty stupid Tory.

echo August 15, 2020 11:41 AM


I guess it isn’t a surprise to me, but still, I thought it was interesting how new cameras for photography, afaik, not only have a wifi feature, but I think can/will upload each photo a couple of sconds after the a photo is taken, to some storage device. Maybe it is just me but, to be designing a feature like seems like an obvious privacy issue, and more importantly, I think one can imagine how a government might want to design snooping/surveillance stuff based off merely such tech existing/being used, if they have a propensity for just “collecting it all”.

Having said that, I don’t have a good idea if this kind of feature with automatic uploading of photos to a storage device by wifi is truly a novely or not, so maybe old news.

Not every camera has hardline connectivity and some professional photographers love instant wifi uploading.

Yes there are security and privacy issues but this is one reason to visit a proper professional with something to lose and study the contract carefully. It also helps if enforcement and legal system support human rights properly. There’s nothing new about any of the problems really other than the instant thing and scaleability of pain. It’s a problem which only used to effect the rich and famous now effects the rest of us.

You can prosecute or sue miscreants in foreign jurisdictions in the English courts and in some instances punative measures may be available via the ECHR or ECJ. I have no problems instructing lawyers to press for closing down social media or random website or sanctioning a particular country until they behave. No problem at all. Any politician who obects is out of a job as far as I’m concerned. Of course making this happen is another thing but none of them are bullet proof.

On the flipside being an invisible nobody helps too.

Jon August 15, 2020 12:08 PM

@ Curious, @ echo

One major advantage of the near-instant upload is preserving the camera – and the shots – in the event that the authorities suddenly notice and decide to seize the recording device.

Back in the day, if the goon squad saw you taking pictures, they’d just grab the camera, ruin the film, and ruin your day. With near-instant upload, even if they ruin the cameraperson and/or their equipment, the pictures remain.

(Of course, if this became a problem, various goon squads have no problem with running WiFi jammers, too…)


Sherman Jay August 15, 2020 12:14 PM

Workplaces are now mandating unaccountable spyware for workers:


New workplace surveillance tools being used by employers to track and trace employees in an effort to combat COVID-19 institute dystopian mass surveillance, a new report suggests. Conducted by Public Citizen, the report found these apps pose a threat to employees’ privacy.

More than 50 apps, wearables and others marketed as workplace surveillance tools since the start of the pandemic, a press release stated. With more than 32 companies currently using one of these technologies, there are currently 340,000 employers forced to “either accede to dystopian levels of surveillance or risk losing their jobs.”

Some are even bypassing the requirements of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act’s (HIPPA) health information privacy provisions.

No matter which technology, Public Citizen warns against workplace surveillance threatening employees privacy. According to the report, some of these privacy-violating features include: PLEASE read the article for the frightening invasion and violations.

Makes George Orwell a prophet (again, some more)

XYZZY August 15, 2020 1:44 PM

In the 60s “they” really did not like you photographing “them”. It helped to have keys to most everything, be a runner, and have a long lens. I remember someone taking pictures of the photographers that were always well dressed and in strategic locations, then running to the computer center to hide behind the tape racks. It never impacted someones security clearance years later.

Clive Robinson August 15, 2020 2:00 PM

@ Jon,

Amateur radio operators have paid attention to “Space Weather” for decades.

Mostly those working the bands below 100MHz, though you do get some sporadic E etc in higher bands. I once had the fun of working Auroral-E but that was when I was fitter younger and my blood thick enough to withstand being in the very high latitudes.

But people also sometimes forget it’s the earths tilt and the weather that causes gives Tropo and Ducting in the VHF and UHF bands, working very long distances at UHF is fun when normally being heard across town can be hard.

But I miss “misty mornings” and “foggy days” where you realy did get oddities in the VHF and UHF spectrum.

But some fun can be had with those lumps of out of space muck that burn up in the atmosphere a couple of times a year creating short lived ionization trails that reflect RF inmuch the same way aircraft contrails reflect sunlight at the ends of the day.

But whilst bouncing off the moon can be fun, bouncing off of Venus via a borrowed radio telescope was a day to remember.

For some it’s the technical side of the hobby that is the best bit, and a Nobel Laureate agrees 😉

I’m still trying to get permission to send broad band DSSS through QO-100…

vas pup August 15, 2020 2:26 PM

@Bruce – thank you for the article related to gene editing.

As a tool, CRISP-R has tremendous potential (as good and bad). By the way tool (as best of my memory) was developed in China which is usually accused of stealing everything. When you are first at something, then where you do stealing from?

China will not disclose research on gene editing, and I see many surprises in the future related to gene editing. Unfortunately, some could be dangerous – that is very strong security vector, but we bombarded from the outer space with potentially dangerous bio materials. By the way octopus has DNA not matching any other bio objects on the Earth. I posted on this respected blog in the past link to the video related.

Just recently it was disclosed that (not in China but on cable TV – I guess Science Channel) about modified gene of goat with gene of spider and then you get very strong thread out of goat milk. Cats with gene modified by gene of jellyfish, so cats is glowing in the dark. That is amazing!

vas pup August 15, 2020 2:41 PM

The Hague: Dozens arrested after several nights of riots

“The mayor of the Dutch city had issued an emergency order after scores of young people took to the streets, pelting police officers with stones and fireworks.
===>Social workers cited “coronavirus boredom” as the motive.

Rioters pelted stones and heavy fireworks at police officers, wrecked police cars and ignited fires. A building that stores sports equipment in Jacob van Campenplein was burned down.

Those arrested are accused of rioting, public assault, threatening behavior and violating the emergency order put in place to prevent further unrest.

There was confusion over the motive for the unrest. The neighborhood has been the scene of frequent riots in the past and is one of the poorest in the Netherlands with a high immigrant population.

Some reports suggested that the riots were fueled by the decision by water authorities to prevent children from opening fire hydrants to cool off during last week’s heat wave.

The Hague youth ambassador Aad van Loenen hinted that residents were often the victims of racial profiling by authorities. He told Dutch broadcaster NOS that “young people of color in groups of two or more people” are often questioned by police in the area and treated with suspicion, making them “feel no longer welcome.

“They were waiting for someone to have the guts to start,” Arma told NOS, adding that young people then started destroying cars, throwing fireworks, petrol bombs and pelting officers.

====>Van Loenen told NOS: “If you close schools for months, hardly open any swimming pools and chase young people away from Scheveningen {seaside resort}, then you get this.”

!!!====>Van Loenen said that as long as there will be COVID-19, more riots are likely to take place. He called on the Dutch government to provide young people with more activities to add “structure” to their lives.

At the same time, he said young people should be given more responsibilities in their neighborhoods.

“If you are responsible for something yourself, it is more difficult to destroy it again.”

I hope information starting with !!! and to the end of quote has very good idea what ACTALLY should be done rather than usual political blah-blah-blah.

echo August 15, 2020 4:07 PM


One major advantage of the near-instant upload is preserving the camera – and the shots – in the event that the authorities suddenly notice and decide to seize the recording device.

Back in the day, if the goon squad saw you taking pictures, they’d just grab the camera, ruin the film, and ruin your day. With near-instant upload, even if they ruin the cameraperson and/or their equipment, the pictures remain.

(Of course, if this became a problem, various goon squads have no problem with running WiFi jammers, too…)

Ooh. I forgot about all that!

Or simply be a middle class lady with a broach camera. (I’ve found if I wear the right stuff cars actually stop, yes, stop to let me cross the road.) I’ve actually been meaning to buy a broach camera and lapel mic for ages. Thanks for the reminder! Clutch my pearls and look a bit lost and the cops would probably give me a free car ride home. Another thing is with 4K cameras (which I don’t have the money for) they capture an insane amount so you can reduce image size for quality or gain optical zoom which buys you some distance.

@vas pup

!!!====>Van Loenen said that as long as there will be COVID-19, more riots are likely to take place. He called on the Dutch government to provide young people with more activities to add “structure” to their lives.

There’s plenty they can do if they put their minds to it. Arts and crafts, DIY, gardening, coding up a game or faffing with some level design, learning Chess, foreign languages, exercise, food preparation and cooking, and a bazillion other things. I know it’s a bit old school but they can exist without their noses in their phones for more than ten minutes. Not only does it give people something to do but it’s also useful “reputation management” and helps change perceptions as well as being satisfying. If they’re going to loaf about in hoodies with their jeans hanging around their ankles they shouldn’t be surprised if they’re stopped.

echo August 15, 2020 5:17 PM

You Probably Won’t Catch the Coronavirus From Frozen Food

Reports that the virus was detected in a trans-continental shipment of frozen chicken wings sparked concerns online. But experts aren’t worried.

A good reason to maintain good hygiene practices and no need to run around with arms waving in the air.

Chinese hackers have pillaged Taiwan’s semiconductor industry
Operation Skeleton Key has stolen source code, SDKs, chip designs, and more.

Not unusual. I’d be more surpried if nobody tried. Of course those dodgy ne’er do well Rooshans at Kasperksy deep in hock to the scary Putin state blew the whistle on this kind of activity a few years ago.

I have noticed though with Intel trying to talk up its new processes this week they are basically trying to drown out TMSC and Samsung who are making more progress than Intel are. Not to mention the next generation of sub 3nm manufacture which Intel has no signs of making progress with. So this and the other scare story this week about the Russians and I’m wondering how much is a genuine alert and how much is simply just a marketing exercise to put the wind up people so they fall in line with US policy dogma (hello University of Texas looking at you) and buy American.

Another thought is why does nobody shut about people pinching stuff off the Russians or Chinese? Somebody somewhere must be trying to pinch their stuff. They do have stuff people want to pinch, surely? Or are the “good guys” just better at it?

echo August 15, 2020 6:07 PM

Martínez rejects the argument that, as a variety, the blackfoot pig can’t be protected by a denomination the way champagne and parmesan cheese are, pointing out that the Japanese wagyu enjoys just this sort of protection.

However, the US has tended to be cavalier about such things. Parmesan cheese technically has to be from Parmigiano-Reggiano but under the name of parmesan it could be anything, and in the US it’s as likely to have come from Peoria as from Parma.

As the US never ratified the 1919 Treaty of Versailles, under which champagne became a protected brand, until recently American wine producers have been able to play fast and loose with the term. Now, it seems, what is sold as jamón ibérico may well originate in Dallas or Macon rather than Badajoz or Salamanca.

On top of my posting the other week about Americans and Australians counterfeiting Japanese wagu beef it looks like counterfiet Spanish Iberian ham and counterfeit French champagne is an issue. By counterfeit I mean Americans selling a cheap knock-off of premium foods Chinese stylee.

This weekend I am making Neopolitan style pizza. (I wouldn’t touch New York pizza if you paid me.) “Neopolitian style” is fine but to make a genuine Neopolitan pizza you need to adhere to certain rules. It’s not just a matter of respect but a “Neopolitan style” pizza and Neopolitan pizza are not the same thing. Once you begin to slip you end up with New York pizzas which are quite frankly ghastly things orginally made as “fuel” for immigrant manual labourers and “made to a price”. Even within New York restaurants which specialise in “New York pizzas” standards can slip even lower.

To add a touch of balance some British famers have been able to sucessfully produce wasabi. Apparently, their powdered wasabi is 20 percent wasbi which is the highest available and UK based Japanese chefs buy their wasabi. Now to be fair to America and Australians they did shake up the wine industry andgavethe French, who had been getting lazy and dumping third rate wine on the English, a kick up the rear. But these other lazy knock-offs I’m not in favour of. They don’t just steal jobs but destroy culture and excellence.

echo August 15, 2020 6:54 PM


I flipped through the video. The first thought which crossed my mind is I don’t like “vox pops” and one persons subjective opinion. The other fragments I caught about framing and timeliness is nothing new. I have no interest in videos full of people being “emotional” or “earnest”. The subject matter itself is old and been done much more soberly years ago and is a staple of “media studies” or journalism or sociology courses and the like. I doubt the video would say anything I didn’t already know.

I have no idea what the main message of the video is about and had no interest in watching it through if its going to put my emotions through the wrangler. If it’s one overwrought side pointing fingers at their respective boygyman I’m definately not interested.

The other week I stumbled across a youtube channel which wrapped itself in sober “thinktank” style airs and graces while being full of shrill and alarmist Alt-Right nonsense.

Youtube seems to be a breeding ground for extremist channels hiding behind the language of legitimacy and air of authority to con the ill equiped and gullible into whatever their propoganda mission is. I see no reason to promote them.

There’s a lot of money behind these channels and you have to wonder where it’s coming from.

I will add that I think your language is questionable.

Clive Robinson August 15, 2020 8:06 PM

@ Sherman Jay,

New workplace surveillance tools being used by employers to track and trace employees in an effort to combat COVID-19 institute dystopian mass surveillance, a new report suggests.

There is a quote for this,

    “Never waste a good disaster.”

The second most important mantra of the brain washed MBA’s in the neo-liberal canon. It comes right above “don’t leave money on the table” that has given us all the supply chain issues that have fed this disaster in the first place.

As was once pointed out to me back in the 1980’s over what became “Business Process Re-enginering”,

    “You can make a bell out of glass, but do you want it as the fire bell?”

Thus indicating there is a lot more to resilience than appearences and check lists, such as experience and the inteligence to learn from it.

Clive Robinson August 16, 2020 12:26 AM

@ Anders,

The “Russian SIMs” article might be new to some people but it’s kind of “old hat”.

The article also has some mistakes in it…

A mobile phone in use effectively has two electronic serial numbers one each for the phone it’s self and one for the SIM.

As many are aware you can go into quite a few phone shops and buy a phone with cash.

Some phones have “dual SIMs” as standard others have other interesting featurs as well via the likes of “test mode codes” put in to make re-manufacturing costs lower etc. So if you know which brand to buy you can change the phones electronic serial number from the keyboard amongst other things… This has been long known by “phone thieves” who change the phone serial number to get around the anti theft “number blocking” that you used to hear about, then they ship the phones abroad and sell them very profitably to locals. Obviously changing the phone serial number is also known to terrorist organisations as well and they have used it in the past to avoid drone strikes etc.

There are “sideways load” apps that will do it for you along with keeping a little databse of numbers like a reverse “phone book”. Whilst this is not illegal to do most places in some it is certainly frowned upon for a whole host of reasons some of which are technical only. Thus some phone service providers “lock” a SIM and Phone serial number pair together for “security reasons” whilst others do not (it is after all not a crime to use a SIM in a new phone, at best it’s a breach of contract).

Thus quite a few “Chinese phones” are like those old NE2000 10bT network cards you could set the MAC address to what ever you liked (BADBEEF being popular in technical books, How-Tos etc). Eventually this ability got used for nefarious purposes such as spoofing thus getting around “idiot designed” security protocols that assumed MAC addresses were “indelibly fixed”. It became a standard “Pen-Tester” technique. Well some of the more knowledgable Pen-Testers know all about “spoofing” phones as well to get around “idiot designed” security protocols. It can even “amplify” social engineering after all “This is mike in tech support, Bill’s told me to use his phone to call you” kind of works like a charm…

What these Russian cards are realy doing is no more than people running call centers do which is changing the “Caller ID”… Well there are already lots of ways to do that… There are Internet VoIP to POTS bridging sites that do that for you and they’ve been around for getting on for two decades. There are also “Virtual Office” companies that do similar in that they provide a “receptionist” who takes incoming calls and redirects them to your mobile phone, but also when you dial in will forward the call to any number you ask for, they’ve been around since the 1980’s to my knowledge and probably a lot longer. You can also set up PABXs to do dialin-dialout which back in the days of “Phone Phreeking” in the 70’s/80’s used to get charities and such like huge phone bills. Similar tricks could be done with those “Dial Cards” back in the 1970s/80s for traveling business men to get around expensive hotel phone bills or use phones where international calls were bared. You would dial a local number belonging to your chosen service provider give them your ID and PIN number and they would forward your call and bill you at the end of the month. There are even 0800 numbers or fixed rate numbers now whereby some operators will use the complicated inter operator tarrifs to route a call internationaly and still make a profit…

But there was one thing in the article that did make me smile,

    You can’t just tell a device not to connect to a strong tower. That’s what the device is designed to do. Find a strong signal. Latch on and use mobile data,” the source added.

Not at all true, it’s at best a 20,000ft view of how mobile phone services work.

More correctly the behaviour “the source” from the article describes is driven by software in the baseband unit under control of the SIM which is “default behaviour” but obviously the software “default behaviour” can be changed etc, often it’s built into the phone as part of the user interface if you know where to look… Sony for instance has had it on android phones for over a decade.

If you know you can buy “dual SIM” phones that can use a choice of service providers “towers” after a moments thought it’s obvious that one tower may be stronger than the other but it does not stop you chosing which one to use. Likewise you can go on line and find lists of “prepaid” SIMs and who’s network they run on so you can make a choice of one that works well in your area. Such lists are also made by people who do a lot of outdoor activities like walking and mountain climbing so they can have a number of prepaid SIMs for their “Emergancy Phone” and even “Preppers” of all flavours have such lists. There are also apps you can now get for Smart Phones that not only produce an “on screen map” of all the towers in range of the phones along with their relative strengths and who the operator ID’s are but also which tower you are connected to. Some you can use to build up a “waystations” NEMA database like those fitness trackers for runners and cyclists, which is a great tool if you do any kind of comms engineering or are a Pen-Tester. But also if you run the same route every day, you can write a fairly simple Python script to look for daily differences or new cell towers etc which could be a lot of use in certain security efforts such as “close support detail” etc. I’m sure that some apps which can show DRTboxen, ISMI catchers and similar up for what they are is purely an incidental side effect (oh there is an app writen in Java that runs on a laptop or SBC like a Raspberry Pi with an SDR card that also shows the ID’s of phones as they communicate with towers if the encryption is turned off, kind of usefull if you are looking for people following you and you use a little lateral thinking with other SDR tools that make femto-cells and the like 😉

If you are sufficiently technically minded you can also build a “Test SIM” or aquire one for next to nothing, these enable the user to see all towers in range, and specifically select and use a chosen tower even if there is one 70db (10,000,000 times) or more stronger.

None of this informarion is in any way “secret” and is known by lots of people even if they do not know the value of it.

Remember a lot of those covert IC, Federal and even LEO flights with DRTboxes aboard got found out by people using easily available SDR devices and antennas and ADS-B decoding and display software. Their darn peculiar flight paths atracted attention and thir take of and landing fields made it almost certain, a little sluthing in public records gave up the names of the shell companies they were run through and thus “the gaff blown”.

All of this is what “Open Source Intelligence” is all about and what the likes of investigative journalists and intelligence analysts have been doing for decades, it’s just got a lot easier now these things are “On Line”. Some IC organisations are getting a little angsty, as they are starting to realise that those “collect it all” drag nets they are running is based on agnostic technology, and that their “assets” are the “small fry” that also get caught in the net… But it’s now a little to late to try to get it back in the bottle, because even one man band hobbyists are becoming “Inteligence Sources” that other individuals aggregate and then “publish” their findings.

I think it was Al Gore who first tried to raise the issue of aggregating unclasified (open source) information into actionable inteligence many years ago when he was vice president back in the 1980’s, but got ignored by the legislators etc. I know he certainly found legislators to be “sleepy” when he warned about Artificial Inteligence and Fiber Optic networks which gave us the Internet. Funnily enough he’s lived to see all three warnings come to fruition, along with one or two others as well.

WmG August 16, 2020 12:58 AM

@ echo

Are you my Aunt Margaret? 🙂

You certainly have a number of her strategems, even quotes from the Bard. Women can get away with things that few men can.

“ Or simply be a middle class lady … Clutch my pearls and look a bit lost and the cops would probably give me a free car ride home.”

Exactly right.

Aunt Margaret never let anyone put anything by her. Strong mind, iron will, wonderful smile. She never had a driver’s license due to short eyesight. She carried what looked like a purse, but was in fact a suitcase. When asked for ID, she would of course, say, “I’m sure it’s right here somewhere.” So many things, more then the people in the growing line could imagine, were produced while searching.. “Oh, here’s my Library Card! Will that help?”

“Well, yes, that will be just fine, Ma’am.”

She would have loved the broach camera. Her broaches tended to the large.

SpaceLifeForm August 16, 2020 2:00 AM

“Cosmic Rays Solar minimum is underway. The sun’s magnetic field is weak, allowing extra cosmic rays into the solar system. Neutron counts from the University of Oulu’s Sodankyla Geophysical Observatory show that cosmic rays reaching Earth in 2020 are near a Space Age peak.”

MarkH August 16, 2020 3:32 AM


“name.not.provided” above commented with explicit bigotry. I suspect it’s the same troll who has been making similar comments for awhile under varying names.

The Red Squid of Passion August 16, 2020 5:07 AM


Any comments on this?
Open source software has become pervasive in data centers, consumer devices and services, representing its value among technologists and businesses alike. Because of its development process, open source that ultimately reaches end users has a chain of contributors and dependencies. It is important that those responsible for their user or organization’s security are able to understand and verify the security of this dependency chain.
Open-source software is inherently community-driven and as such, there is no central authority responsible for quality and maintenance. Because source code can be copied and cloned, versioning and dependencies are particularly complex. Open-source software is also vulnerable to attacks against the very nature of the community, such as attackers becoming maintainers of projects and introducing malware. Given the complexity and communal nature of open source software, building better security must also be a community-driven process.

Sheilagh Wong August 16, 2020 6:40 AM

Here’s an example of why computer security desperately needs to be re-engineered. We have to give tax information to the government, but if the information can’t be secured by the government it becomes a human rights travesty. Blaming the citizen is not an option. A population includes all sorts of people; we can’t expect them all to be able to manage user IDs and passwords.

Clive Robinson August 16, 2020 6:44 AM

More on NZ COVID cluster.

As I understand it there are now thirty six cases two of which are 200kM from Aukland but are epidemiologicaly related so it is in effect a single cluster.

Apparently –I’ve only a single source of info currently– NZ has carried out philogenetic analysis with the following out come,

1, Not related to previous cases so not something that has been hiding in the community.

2, Not related to any people that have come into NZ and have been or still are in quarantine.

3, There have been more cases linked ti the cold store.

What has not been mentioned but is still a posibility all be it quite a small one is human-animal-human transmission, with a disease reservoir in the animal population

We know this is possible from mink farms in other countries and it’s the one that realy worries the heck out of me.

Because most CoV diseases in animals are not respiratory in nature but gastrointestinal. Which makes it more likely the animals will survive as well as pass it on to other creatures through their scat.

We know that felines and rodents can and have become infected with COVID but I’ve seen very little information about the progress and outcomes in cats and rodents. This is because the little information there is has been about test subjects that get euthanized soon after infection so that results can be collected.

So, bad as it might sound to some, lets hope it is the cold store at the center of this cluster. Because bad as it sounds that is controlable, where as infection in an animal population especially a wild animal population is very difficult to impossible to deal with.

Clive Robinson August 16, 2020 6:45 AM

@ echo,

By counterfeit I mean Americans selling a cheap knock-off of premium foods Chinese stylee.

As a matter of historical note a “Cheap Chinese knock-off” actually refered to products from independent Taiwan not the Chinese mainland.

Which is why the comment about China swiping the Taiwanese Tech Industry IP has a certain wry humour to it.

As for Russia and China having IP things to steal, yes they do and yes it is happening.

Russia for various economic reasons has managed to do some quite remarkable things in science mathmatics and software much of which the west especially the US has filched in one way or another. With the US doing it’s best to stifle anything the Russians do with sanctions export controls and the like. A prime example would be the AK47 arguably the most reliably made gun in the world, you can see parts of it’s design turning up in the products of UK and US arms manufacturers.

China is a more recent entrant in the IP swiping game, but has progressed through it rather rapidly. More than half the noise being made by the US about 5G is about Chinese IP. Basically the US wants to freeze china out of international standards for various reasons…

Not least is if you put in technical input into international standards, the standards bodies insist on you signing a wavier with regards fair and unencumbered access to the IP. Unsuprisingly US courts do not support the waviers in their decicions thus alow US companies to use the technology for restrictive trade practices, that they do not alow non US companies to do to US companies. Thus the 5G fight is realy about forcing American exceptionalism into the rest of the world, which I suspect is no shock to you.

As a matter of historic note the biggest misappropriators of technology for over a century is without any doubt the USA. It even prompted one investigator of this to comment about the period “The only thing the US invented was condensed milk”. Actually there is some doubt that the US invented even that as “industrial archeologists” have evidence the process was in use in other parts of the world prior to that, most notably Nicolas Appert in France and Peter Durand in Britain both had patents for the preserving. But the actual condesing evaporation process has been found in the likes of India and other South Asian countries as has the adding of sugars, and in Europe with certain types of curd and fudge making. After all the sane process of reducing fruit juices and adding sugar as a preservative goes back quite some time and is arguably way more popular (ie Squash).

myliit August 16, 2020 8:31 AM

re: Snowden, From @emptywheel [1]:

“Back in September 2016, I wrote a “Cosmopolitan Defense of Snowden” that talked about how any pardon of him would tie into the ideology that undergirds our (increasingly eroding) hegemony.


I said in that that [2], intentional or not, a key effect of Snowden’s leaks would be a vacuum where US power used to be that will be filled by strongmen. Which is the real reason Trump would consider a pardon.


I’ll also add, with the hindsight of 4 more years, Snowden’s leaks ALSO undermined one principle he claimed, in his book, motivated him — to help Iranian dissidents.

The most direct effect of his 702 leaks was the balkanization of the Internet that has made [imperfect] US tech tools (Facebook, Google, Twitter and their related services) less accessible to people in authoritarian governments.

At that level, Snowden’s most famous leak (which didn’t actually reveal much new that wasn’t obvious from a close reading of then-public documents) backfired. Badly.

We’re still stuck with Facebook’s faults but people in authoritarian countries get little of its benefits.

Addendum: Snowden’s most famous leak was probable 215 dragnet. Instead of that, we now have 12333 dragnet (plus whatever Billy Barr, who authorized the predecessor program, has reinstituted). So we’ve made less than no progress.

I have learned as much from the declassified Yahoo challenge to PAA (including that current WH Counsel John Eisenberg exhibited the same lack of candor with FISC that Barr is criminalizing w/Crossfire Hurricane) as I learned from the Snowden 702 deck.


[2] 2016

Who? August 16, 2020 10:41 AM

@ IQ Tester

Intelligence test, I guess. If you send them bitcoins then you had learned nothing from the recent twitter phishing attack. 🙂

Why taking the effort to run a credible phishing attack when there is so many low-hanging fruits?

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 16, 2020 11:12 AM

The Story Yet Written — 16 AUG 2020
One, two, five! No, three sir. (Formerly: Hold my Beer)
The third indictment delivered to court, stating involvement in assisting administrators, Snowden in particular, that support is criminal regarding Hong Kong flight in another attempt to put the Assange case outside the context of journalism or publishing. The Just-US department sees no problem in shamelessly using whatever process, rule, law, or procedure in executing a slow motion death sentence applied to Assange. In fact, there is demonstrated evidence of procedural malfeasance and malevolent prosecution (exercised as persecution) and a complete disregard for ANY jurist prudence. This should alarm everyone. It says, that even in the most visible case, the US will do ANYTHING it pleases to ANYONE for ANY REASON at ANY TIME. Every person that gives a damn about a social cohesion, efficacy, fairness, or just plain common courtesy should realize that this is “Lord of the Flies” meets “Mad Max” meets “Dr. Strange Love”.

Unholy Hand-grenade
Prosecution concerned about his health, an excuse, but want to violate the process and since 2018, changes the nature of the answers that a defense team would have developed to present at trial. Barrister is not going to do anything to fix the failed deadline and due process rights. Defense wants it thrown out, abusing the process. Judge said if you want to make it an issue then bring it up under the September 7th hearing. The judge is deliberating misleading the defense team as any answers required by the defense will be thrown out as irrelevant to the matter before the court. There is also information that Assange will be “re-arrested”. Wait, he’s not been formally arrested–how can he be “re-asserted”? This person sits in prison, without charge, without procedural remedy in any way, shape, or form.

The February hearing was held under the previous indictment which represents a legal reversal. still not entertain the authority of extradition and court and the US have reframed the charges to dismiss all the defense arguments. The deliberate reset is undermining the process is both a punitive and legal fidelity. Again, Assange, is being held as a prisoner without and process–not just due process but any process. How do you hold under arrest without any formal charges, without any charges to remand Assange under bail. This is not a court room proceeding, it is an illegal court structured prison system. We have re-entered the dark ages.

I Q Tester August 16, 2020 11:45 AM

@ Who?

Yes, low hanging fruit yield money for scammers. Obviously, high level targets warrant and get special spear phishing tactics.

But why post such stuff here? Not really the right (low intelligence, low knowledge, poor impulse control) demographic. That’s puzzling.

Is it a signal?

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 16, 2020 11:47 AM

@ myliit

So we’ve made less than no progress.

It’s worse than you think it’s bad…

What about the 2014 IAA (Intelligence Authorization Act), the FISA Amendments Act (FAA), and a host of Defense Appropriations Acts that have essentially hollowed out the Bill of Rights–in a meaningful way. Meaningful in this case does not imply good, it implies effectively–in real life not just on paper. Which is ironic, as defenders of these programs argue that the constitution is just a piece of paper.

At this point I am starting to understand that the observation is correct, it has been rendered as “just a piece of paper”.

To f(x) with these neo-kleptocratic-theonomic-fascists.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 16, 2020 11:59 AM

@ Clive


On RT and S390 AIX, ‘DEADBEEF’ was a kernel exception trap address.

Oh the stories I could tell about OS400…shhh.

Curious August 16, 2020 12:43 PM


I too am following what keeps happening with Assange and I think it is blatantly wrong to treat him this way, and I am being very nice here in hiding my disgust. I was greatly annoyed the other day about Courage Foundation’s apparent non functioning message form, not working in any of my browsers, so I can’t complain about how a recent video of theirs on youtube, included a panel discussion with this old man in a white shirt and glasses, that annoyed me by arguing that the trial wasn’t about Assange, but about press freedom, and they let him have the last word. The trial is obviously about Assange, to outright dismiss that basic thing in some cheap rhetoric is bs and just wrong. If he wanted to proclaim press freedom as important, that man should have done so in some other way. The one man that made good sense to me in that dicussion was the British ‘comedian’ (his profession afaik).

Having said that, presumably, by ‘postmodernism’ (one word) you could be alluding to society at large having become dumb (as in clueless) and stupid (as in stupefied), otherwise I wouldn’t know what you meant by ‘post-modernism’. If you for example thought of society in general being ‘bad’or ‘terrible’ in ways, then surely there must be proper words to used to describe that. If treating ‘postmodernism’ with ironic distancing, I think you sort of end up fooling yourself and others, and becoming a parody of yourselves or nonsensical. I guess I can also accept ‘bizzare’ as a way of loosely characterizing ‘postmodernism’ in general, as if we somehow passed or skipped ‘modernity’ and suddenly ended up in some crazy world, but academics out there might think less of me I suspect because of the lack of nuance in thinking of postmodernism that way.

I already dislike how people tend to talk about a ‘surveillance state’ as an idea, but somehow the notion of a ‘police state’ is perhaps sounding too harsh to people and to me it would then seems like ‘ironic distancing’ (as if mincing word in decribing something that would make you uncomfortable), as if the world would benefit from, I guess, having ascribed this word ‘surveillance state’ to some kind of trend in technology, but holding back on any of the negativity that comes with such bad trends like a surveillance state. I think ‘surveillance state’ sucks as a noun for a real thing in the world, I don’t like itt.

I for one think of state surveillance (presumably including hacking, and tampering with computer hardware, monitoring of communications and movement, and other privacy violations), not really being a modern concern which would have only come with all the technological development for a variety of consumer technologies, as if maybe the political motivation for such was just pragmatic or incidental even, I think such policies has more to do with malice and I think that would be something obvious. Something obviously corrupt would be what I think of as being ‘absolute corruption’, meaning, where corruption is a choice or policy being made for the purpose or desire to gain new benefits and maybe from new power(s)), or I guess perhaps just try maintaining old types of policies in whichever way possible.

Btw, I remember commenting in one of the Brexit subreddits on reddit a year ago, or maybe it was a year before that again, commenting on Brexit and probably announcing my annoyance and disgust at how the world is run, and I don’t know if John Berkow (today a former speaker of the house of commons in UK parliament) perhaps read what I wrote in my upvoted reddit post (40+ upvotes isn’t bad I think for such a long text), but I realized the other day, that Berkow then when seated in UK parliament, had announced on his personal behalf I guess, having said (paraphrasing off my memory) “democracy is the best government form we have”, such would be a rather meaningless statement if also ignoring a desire for improvements. As if you had a brother with terribles shoes and you said to your brother, “you should get new shoes, because those are terrible for you”, and he would then reply “these shoes are the best I have and so I don’t care for getting new shoes”. And, before you guys try to correct me: the parallel of government form vs shoe item, isn’t interesting, what is interesting is that the guy appear to be happy with the current state of things, that is what I think is wrong.

AL August 16, 2020 12:46 PM

Election rules vary by state. Here’s a state-by-state guide.
In my state, I’m eligible to vote in-person absentee at an earlier date. The post office fiasco is only one way that they’re suppressing the vote. Another way is reducing polling locations. So, anyone who can vote early should do so to reduce the crowds on election day. And remember, those who don’t want us to vote, don’t support democracy. And also don’t forget, a lot of the suppression is occurring at the state and local level.

echo August 16, 2020 1:02 PM


Speaking of exceptionalism “processed cheese” is not itself an American invention nor was it invented by James L. Kraft. His particular patented method was a variant of “fuel produced to a price” (see also chlorinated chicken). While a success it essentially went nowhere until branded as “American cheese”. Thus, receiving the “America First” exceptionalist nationalist seal of approval. Americans also ripped off higher quality English cheese generically referred to as “Cheddar” with their lower quality product which they also branded as “Cheddar”.

The term cheddar cheese is widely used, but has no protected designation of origin within the European Union. However, in 2007 a Protected Designation of Origin, “West Country Farmhouse Cheddar”, was created and only Cheddar produced from local milk within Somerset, Dorset, Devon and Cornwall and manufactured using traditional methods may use the name. Outside of Europe, the style and quality of cheeses labelled as cheddar may vary greatly, with some processed cheeses being packaged as “cheddar” while bearing little resemblance. Furthermore, certain cheeses that are more similar in taste and appearance to Red Leicester are sometimes popularly marketed as “red Cheddar”.

Source: Wiki

Before WWII England produced more varieties of cheese than the French. However, the need to avoid food wastage resulted in the effective closure of the artisan cheese industry to be replaced by mass produced “cheddar”. The cheese industry never recovered and only now at the pheriphery has began to develop new cheeses to replace the over 300 varieties lost.

For various historical and geographical and seasonal reasons English cuisine was never considered “fine” although for quite some time English cakes and sweets were considered the very best surpassing even the French. English cooking wasn’t utterly horrendous but as it had barely moved on from the medieval boiled beef to the new fangled novelty of roast beef Mrs Beeton and her book “Mrs Beeton’s Book of Household Management” single handedly destroyed the tastebuds of generations of English. The effect was so complete that with the EU driving greater openess within Europe that frozen lasagne and antifreeze laced third rate plonk and glorified sugar water was all the rage. We laugh now but at the time it was quite the fashionable step up along with double glazing and the quaintly named continental quilts and the Roman like imperial decadence of central heating. It is only now a few decades on that English cuisine can be competitive.

echo August 16, 2020 1:23 PM


I don’t know if John Berkow (today a former speaker of the house of commons in UK parliament) perhaps read what I wrote in my upvoted reddit post

I know from personal experience that politicians do rip people off but also synchronicity and parallel invention is a thing so you need to be careful. I have a few examples myself which I have found grown enough to go full cicle and you, actually, have buried in your text one such fasionable example. I could if I wanted to dig up original source as its in plain view but I can’t be bothered. The second example I’m thinking of, a specific antiquated phrase, and its rise to popularity was actually later the subject of a Guardian article by someone I knew previously. Memes are another thing which have been studied and due to the social media effect the cycle has definately shorted.

As for the “stupidocracy” it’s one of those self-fulfilling illusions. This has been manifested post broadcasting industry liberalisation with a drop in average quality across the board. It just happens when you have a curated environment versus anything goes. Some experiments in crowdsourcing have pretty much confirmed “wisdom of the crowds” is a nonense.

The likes of Camridge Analytica and their ilk are just a very clever and cynical abuse of all this.

Sometimes the world can be a very small place…

echo August 16, 2020 1:46 PM

Facebook’s algorithm “actively promotes” Holocaust denial content according to an analysis that will increase pressure on the social media giant to remove antisemitic content relating to the Nazi genocide. An investigation by the Institute for Strategic Dialogue (ISD), a UK-based counter-extremist organisation, found that typing “holocaust” in the Facebook search function brought up suggestions for denial pages, which in turn recommended links to publishers which sell revisionist and denial literature, as well as pages dedicated to the notorious British Holocaust denier David Irving. The findings coincide with mounting international demands from Holocaust survivors to Facebook’s boss, Mark Zuckerberg, to remove such material from the site.

The rest of the article is worth reading as it digs a little further into mindsets and the mechanisms by which Alt-Right style influences works and the loopholes they use to get away with it on social media in general.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 16, 2020 2:40 PM

@ Curious

as if we somehow passed or skipped ‘modernity’ and suddenly ended up in some crazy world, but academics out there might think less of me I suspect because of the lack of nuance in thinking of postmodernism that way.

How is this not true? Nuanced or not, there is a neo-kleptocratic-theonomic-fascism that is taking hold and it is troubling, to say the least. And, any academics that are exercised about the use of postmodernism, or post-modernity, might consider Shira or Christian law as contemplative–it is not. We have yet to exercise the boundaries of sentient thought and organization let alone discovered any truths that are meaningful (take quite some time to explain) but I am getting WOT.

This is not about your response @ Curious, it is about OUR circumstances. You expressed yourself well and there are many that know what you speak of but not enough in the right places and time. There has been a need to reestablish the lines of civility and governance (in even a minimal form of something resembling justice), let me continue…

You understand that there is a subtext to my writing, few catch it. The post-modernism is more appropriate given the understanding of epochs and anthropology that is absent in the U.S. civic mind–where it even exists. Again, a whole thesis is wrapped up in this so let me analogize…

First, if you understand the subtitle of the piece, a quote from Monty Python’s “The Holy Grail”, a priest consults the Holy Book of Armaments. This scene encapsulates so much, from the “Some call me, Tim?” to “That rabbit is dynamite!”, “I did it again. ” from Sir Robin. The conceptual framing of the “Rabbit” is a perfect metaphor for power and the abstraction that is understanding how it works. How “Tim” laughs his ass off as one of the Knight’s head is bitten off by the Rabbit. Much of post-modernism is about the curators of cultural under the mindful attendance of purveyors of intellectual patriarchy–the new form of patronage. Ironically, that form of patronage is giving way to POST-POST-TURTH. This is a most unpredictable environment, a leader under some such scenario I would argue looks like the caricature of Trump.

We are in the most dreadful of times, the people actively asserting control to the helm of the ship “global hegemony” have entered into the final stages of assertion and attainment. The people involved have not advertised their presence or intentions and those that understand what is at stake and to whom the spoils are reserved are few and far between. If I were to re-illiterate the subtitle it would have been POST-POST-TRUTH…going back to the rabbit.

The Dark and middle ages of Europe in the 11th to the 15th century (many say it is 9th to 14th century based on post reformation and pre-enlightenment) are seeming more nuanced then the contemporary political devolution of thought, theory, and practice. I expect to wake up tomorrow and see the Statue of Liberty (thank you France) as it was portrayed in the last scene from “Planet of the Apes”.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 16, 2020 2:59 PM

@ Clive
There is some research about infrastructure issues related to the next “Carrington” event. (Notice I said next.) There are some objects out in the universe that are galaxy sized weapons–can you imagine a neutron star traveling and near light speeds?

A friend of mine, a high energy physics scientist, did some work a few years back. As one area of related research in UWB weapons, the types of failures are significant and have cataclysmic results in periods of weeks and months. The types of UWB radiation that can come from a number of sources capable of significant de-population are of concern, and have defeated almost all attempts to mitigate in real-time.

Who? August 16, 2020 3:02 PM

@ I Q Tester

You are supposing scammers are clever than the people their phishing tactics are targeting. Hopefully it is not true in every case!

P.S. I am not considering myself clever, at least not as clever as most people in this forum. It is great having an opportunity to learn from true experts, and listening to their advice.

Clive Robinson August 16, 2020 3:42 PM

@ echo,

Americans also ripped off higher quality English cheese generically referred to as “Cheddar”

The reason the name “cheddar” was “generic” is that it became the name of the “proces” –cheddering[1]– by which the cheese is made quite a long tine ago thus it spread out. Even though there is a place called Cheddar.

You can see this “oddity” with Stilton Cheese, because stilton is the name of the cheese and not the process it can and has been protected, even though it’s made in Melton Mowbray[2] which is nowhere near any place called Stilton (the story is long and dull).

But yes WWI and WWII whilst generally raising the economic and living standards for many and killed off many “servant” jobs did destroy much of the English and Welsh cuisine, though Scotish faired a bit better.

We lost amoungst other things cheeses as you mentioned, charcuterie, and much in the way of pie making. It’s sad to say that this sceptered isle which was a place of pies and puding both sweet and savoury lost a lot including regional biscuits and cakes. Whilst I’ve an interest in charcuterie and pies and some pudings the real killer of these dishes was an American called Ancel Keys who invented the empty calorie food for soldiers known as the K-Rashion which probably killed more American soldiers prematurely thanthe enemy did. We still live with the high salt and sugar low fat disaster that is type II diabetes, high blood preasure, plague in blood vessels, and damages if not destroyed nerves in fingers toes and eyes.

Sugar Pure white and deadly especially the likes of fully skimed milk, which is actually a waste product from the dairy industry that got incorrectly rebranded as “healthy” when in fact only milk over 4% fat is benificial as science shows.

You can live without simple carbs that is all the sugars and some startches without any problem what so ever, but cut out fats or proteins and you are heading for a world of hurt. Likewise this notion again from the US of “grazing” this causes high blood sugar levels all day which taxes you pancreas and gives you Syndrom-X. The scientific evidence has been in for years intermitant fasting and only one meal a day on days you eat is actually good for you and can undo what the medical proffession still thinks can not be done. Which is to reverse type II diabetes if it has not gone to far, and also help you loose weight naturally and permanently unlike other diets…

I could go on especially about “food security” especially as things on the protien front are heading for a quite rocky road ahead. But hey I’ve already mentioned it already a few times recently. If people are not getting the message “whilst the getting is good” so be it.

[1] Cheddering is a way to extract more whey from the curd and make a tighter firmer cheese. Like most cheeses the curd is cut into small pieces so it has a larger surface to volume ratio thus more whey will come out. However in chedering the cut whey is cut a lot more to effectively produce a crumb that is pressed into layers that then get stacked upon each other thus extracting more whey and binding the crumb tightly to form loaves. The acidity is monitored as is the fat content in the whey at an appropriate poibt the loaves are cut then milled and salt is added to stop the acidity changing sufficiently to impart a bitter taste. Obviously in the chedering process the flavour gets changed, but it tends to lack depth, which happens as part of the aging process.

[2] Melton Mowbray has two claims on protected food names, Stilton Cheese and the Melton Mowbray and the raised hot water crust pork pie.

echo August 16, 2020 4:38 PM


There is some research about infrastructure issues related to the next “Carrington” event. (Notice I said next.) There are some objects out in the universe that are galaxy sized weapons–can you imagine a neutron star traveling and near light speeds?

Blackholes and neutron stars are one of those things which give me panic attacks and keep me awake at night although I think I’ve been getting over it lately. That’s before reflecting too deeply on this slightly wobbly house of cards called evolution and environment we exist on like bugs clinging to the habital zone between volcanic pipes and the deep dark and cold ocean. Then there is all this played out against a modernistic tapestry of mediocrity and inertia and careerism and empire building and nationalism and atrocities and bleak austerity and the haves and have nots and casually indifferent security apparatus and impotent power. Andrew Hunter Murrays’ bestseller “The Last Day” touches on some of this.

Rambling on conciousness is quite an odd thing and much misunderstood. The centre of conciousness itself leaps about from one part of our brain to another constantly. Then there is the issue of cognitive reasoning playing catch up with the middle brain and the constant “wagging the dog” by the reptile brain. Dogmas and illusions aren’t far behind along with security blind spots and evasion technques labelled “ghosting”. It’s always the bullet you don’t see coming which gets you.

According to reports the Russians are taking this kind of threat relatively seriously. I daresay national prestige and attempts to play marketing catch-up and perhaps even the odd institutional brainfart may be motivating them but it is certainly a none zero existential threat.

echo August 16, 2020 5:23 PM


Melton Mowbray which is nowhere near any place called Stilton (the story is long and dull).

Yes, I read about all this. Personally I find it to be one of those interesting snippets which may turn up useful on day. In fact as I was writing my first comment on the subject I remembered I had a fairly large and cheeky Melton Mowbray pie in the fridge whose days instantly became measured in minutes. Melton Mowbray pies achieved protected name status and have to be made within ten squaremiles of Melton using the traditional recipe. Now I have quite the fetish for these things and have been bending the ears of my local shop to get them in along with a lecture on why they are better than the cardboard slurry containers they usually stocked. Alas they are of imported stock who don’t listen to women until a man says it but thankfully I managed to find a retailer who delivers these along with other fresh meat and fish so that’s me happy.

Now they’ve been getting Fray Bentos pies in again (a childhood favourite) after much ear bashing and some men (grrr) asked them to supply them again. Fray Bentos pies, as we know, are not actually made in Fray Bentos, Uraguay and not even England anymore but Scotland. Yes I know Fray Bentos pies are not Michellin starred but they are bullet proof and have a place in my emergency food cupboard. The best tinned stewed steak was produced by an Irish manufacturer who has since been taken over by Princes who subsequently closed that brand down. The alternative brands are pretty cack. At a pinch Fray Bentos pies contain a fair portion of protein without being too fatty so can be oven baked “as is” or scooped out for a casserole. Of course if you’re starving out on Dartmoor after the collapse of civilisation or suchlike the whole thing can be thrown in a pot. As for Princess stewed steak I find this and the “Best Buy” can of stewed steak (which is a mixture of axle grease with traces of meat in it) when mixed together is quite workable having tested and compared.

Fray Bentos pies have a reputation for destroying can openers but I found the Oxo Goodgrips can opener, one of two recommended by the manufacturer, to be quite good and certainly good value when compared with overpriced “premium” can openers. I have one of these plus a couple of P51 can openers just in case.

Having just got a kilo (!) of dried yeast in which is now safely sitting in the fridge I only just discovered how to make fresh brewers yeast. Typical.

IQ Tester August 16, 2020 6:53 PM

@ Who?
Good points. It is a Dunning Kruger world.

Agree with your ps, goes for for me too. 🙂

lurker August 16, 2020 9:11 PM

@echo, re

Facebook’s algorithm “actively promotes”…

see also:

Facebook, Instagram and Twitter are just some of the places where information is shared, but the big platforms seem to do little to moderate.

I remember coming to usenet well over 30 years ago. Flame wars were becoming a feature in some groups. The simple tin reader had a user configurable filter that would block presentation of posts from named trolls.

Mr.Z is too young to remember usenet, and he has never displayed any enthusiasm for unfriending or validating known “good” sources. I suspect his lawyers don’t want to tell him the First Amendment is not generally applicable outside of the USA

myliit August 17, 2020 3:03 AM

From a fascinating New York Review of Books article about “a trio of new books on disinformation.”:

“… The most vivid example remains the intervention by Russian intelligence in the US presidential election of 2016, in which 126 million Americans saw Facebook material generated and paid for by the Kremlin. But the phenomenon goes far wider. According to Philip N. Howard, professor of Internet studies at Oxford, no fewer than seventy governments have at their disposal dedicated social media misinformation teams, committed to the task of spreading lies or concealing truth. Sometimes these involve human beings, churning out tweets and posts aimed at a mainly domestic audience: China employs some two million people to write 448 million messages a year, while Vietnam has trained 10,000 students to pump out a pro-government line. Sometimes, it is automated accounts—bots—that are corralled into service. The previous Mexican president had 75,000 such accounts providing online applause for him and his policies (a tactic described by Thomas Rid in Active Measures as “the online equivalent of the laugh track in a studio-taped TV show”). In Russia itself, almost half of all conversation on Twitter is conducted by bots. Young activists for Britain’s Labour Party devised a bot that could talk leftist politics with strangers on Tinder.

Still, Howard writes in Lie Machines that the place where disinformation has spread widest and deepest is the US. He and his team at Oxford studied dozens of countries and concluded that the US had the “highest level of junk news circulation,” to the point that “during the presidential election of 2016 in the United States, there was a one-to-one ratio of junk news to professional news shared by voters over Twitter.”


In rich detail, Rid walks us through a hundred years of political warfare, recounting the exploits powers both major and minor inflicted on one another via the disinformation units of their intelligence agencies. Some of the stories are hair-raising. We learn of Operation NEPTUN in 1964, in which Czech intelligence dispatched a team of underwater divers to Bohemia in the dead of night to drop four chests to the bottom of a lake, each one full of what purported to be Nazi documents. The boxes had been suitably treated to appear aged by twenty years of corrosion; inside were blank sheets of paper. The plan was for those to be replaced by authentic Nazi-era records supplied by the KGB from Moscow, where they had been held in state archives, along with “two or three forgeries” that would compromise several top officials in West Germany by apparently exposing them as onetime Nazis.


What, then, can be done to arm ourselves against the next decades of informational war? There are some mechanical steps worth taking, which sound almost too basic to spell out. One can only admire Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign, which, alert to the threat of foreign hackers and their interest in his choice of running mate, devised code names for the potential candidates and communicated only via computers unhooked from the Internet. US election officials at the federal and state levels would be wise to regard 2016 as a trial run for the mayhem Moscow might be plotting for 2020, viewing the various attacks on voting systems four years ago as, in the words of Franklin Foer in The Atlantic, “casing the joint.” Some rudimentary electronic defenses are missing and need to be put in place.

That is especially true given the nature of the incumbent. It is surely not wise to assume that Trump would take defeat gracefully, quietly packing his bags and waving farewell from the South Lawn. Trump is bound to claim that the vote was rigged, that the ballots were unsafe, and that the result in battleground states was void. With that in mind, the sage election official will look to ensure a verifiable paper record of all the votes cast. Not that such a precaution would restrain a president so determined to cling to office that, as some fear, he would invoke emergency national security powers, claiming a foreign adversary—say, China—had meddled in the election. In that scenario, a confected Department of Justice investigation into foreign intrusion might just offer a way for Trump to swerve around the electoral college and throw the election to the House of Representatives where, because the vote would be by state delegation, with one vote per state, Trump would be likely to win. In such a situation, a documented record of votes cast on November 3 would at least be a powerful exhibit in the court of public opinion. To ensure such a record, the most obvious mechanism is not so much low-tech as no-tech: a British-style ballot paper marked by a simple cross, with the papers counted by hand. No voting machines, no hacking.

Failing that, mail-in ballots would not only present an obvious remedy to the conundrum of holding an election in the era of social distancing, they’d also promise a measure of protection against a repeat Russian effort to swing the 2020 election: mailed votes automatically provide their own verifiable paper record. Hackable machines would still have to count them, of course—and a committed election-wrecker could always try to ensure that some ballots get “lost” en route or, no less damagingly, claim that they had—but for all Trump’s drum-banging about the risk of fraud, absentee ballots do at least offer the basic safeguard of a documentary record of a voter’s choice. It’s wearily predictable that a president who has never taken the threat of Russian interference seriously—who indeed is affronted by the mere mention of it in his presence—opposes even the modest precaution of absentee ballots.

Perhaps this debate has come too late. There are alarming signs that election supervisors across the US haven’t left enough time to protect themselves—a situation not helped by Senate Republicans’ refusal to pass a bill that would have afforded some protection against a Moscow offensive, replacing it with legislation that funded new voting machines but did not insist on security measures. In truth, and more broadly, if US elections are to be regarded as safe, they need to be put on a radically different legal footing—one that would overturn the Citizens United judgment that allows the funding of political campaigns to be so easily kept mysterious.


Nevertheless, the only true protection against active measures, whether by Russia or anyone else, is to deny them the openings they rely on. Those 2016 attacks were devilishly ingenious, driving wedge after wedge into America’s most seismic fractures, but none would have worked had those divisions not been there, ready to exploit. A democracy such as the United States will always be divided—of course it will. But Americans’ best defense against foreign enemies might be to stop seeing political opponents as domestic enemies. Russia’s exploits work because Americans are too quick to turn viciously against one another. The culture war has made the country vulnerable in the disinformation wars. Working for a truce in the one might be the best hope for victory in the other.“

Clive Robinson August 17, 2020 4:42 AM

@ Singapore Noodles,

With regards,

    seaweed extract outperforms remdesivir in blocking-covid-19 virus in cell studies

Remdesivir at best shortens your recovery tims, but at a price a very high price for the majority of people, who thus have the “death or eternal debt” choice.

An already existant drug Interferon Beta used for MS sufferers has gone through an early stage trial at Southampton hospital, works far better. Also it costs only around 150-200USD based for a course of treatment based on current UK pricing… But importantly it frees up ICU/ITU more quickly with a six day average not nine day average. Thus alowing around a 50% increase in patient through put which is important when you want to save as many lives as possible. But also the cost savings of which way more than easily ofset the drug cost even if it was only half a day saved in ITU.

As for heperin, it’s a drug with an even lower price and is already used in the UK, to try and stop the early blood clotting which necesitates oxygen therapy.

So if heperin does “double duty” and is already an “on book” medication, using it prophylacticaly as patients enter into the healthcare system may make one of the greatest savings not just in money but lives.

echo August 17, 2020 11:02 AM


Reading through those extracts I’m struck with the impression the problems are more on the US side than anyone elses side. I’m also rather fed up of hearing about the US. Yes I know Schneiers blog is American but can the US change the record? To say I am developing a tin ear for Americas problems is a bit of an understatement.

US hens have half the living space of UK birds and are dipped in chlorinated water after slaughter to kill bacteria growing on them as a result of the birds “literally sitting in each other’s waste”, according to a new video being launched today by the RSPCA.

Tut, tut.

Aiming to highlight the welfare differences between US and UK farm animals as trade talks resume between the two countries in September, the UK’s largest animal welfare charity is taking the unusual step of releasing a video that “exposes the realities of animal welfare” and warns consumers against US dairy, egg and meat imports.

Examples of US-UK welfare differences identified by the RSPCA include the absence of US federal laws protecting chicken or turkey welfare, US egg hens having only about half the living space of UK hens, and only 5% of US laying hens being free range compared to 52% in the UK.

For pigs, the UK banned sow stalls in 1999 while major US pig producing states still use them. “Sow stalls leave pigs very little space [and] prevent them from even turning around,” the RSPCA said, while US beef cattle “can be treated with hormones which have been banned by the EU.”

The 2019 UK Conservative party manifesto pledged it would “not compromise” Britain’s “high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards”. In June however, Downing Street was accused of reopening the door to imports of chlorinated chicken and hormone-treated beef, after a leaked memo instructed ministers to have “no specific policy” on animal welfare in US trade talks.

As far as I’m concerned the current government should be in jail for human rights abuses and fraud, and I would also prefer it if the current government were not behaving like “agents of foreign powers” whether they be Russian OR American or anyone else. As for the “dark money” funded neo-liberal cesspit of a so-called “think tank” in Tufton street…

I remain of the opinion that the general election and Brexit referendum stinks to high heaven. It was and is a coup using extremely suspect “appearance of legal” means.

I do not believe the current or former Attorney General has acted in the “public interest”.

Bent judges don’t help either.

Not my government.

Not my country.

echo August 17, 2020 11:33 AM

In the letter, Silva claims that the code places free services — like Search, Gmail, Youtube — “at risk”, seemingly implying that these services will be affected or may be discontinued if the draft code goes through.

So? People did without them before.

This isn’t the first time a tech company has tried to mobilise their large user base. Uber famously called on users around the world — including in Australia — to lobby politicians to change their laws to become more rideshare-friendly.

My local private hire compamy has a telephone booking line and an app and is cheaper than Uber or not more expensive enough to make a difference. Sorry but I don’t support business, especially large VC driven foreign business, when it is full of unethical tax dodgers driving the so-called “gig” economy or outsourcing costs. Uber can, quite frankly, swivel on it.

myliit August 17, 2020 12:49 PM

“It’s worse than you think it’s bad…

What about the 2014 IAA (Intelligence Authorization Act), the FISA Amendments Act (FAA), and a host of Defense Appropriations Acts that have essentially hollowed out the Bill of Rights–in a meaningful way


To f(x) with these neo-kleptocratic-theonomic-fascists.“

“(Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the state of being governed by God”

Or at least get the dummies to vote for me even, though I don’t give a sh!t about their religion. Start a war with Iran? Have another bible waving event? … (May have been heard in the vicinity of our President)

Sherman Jay August 17, 2020 12:56 PM

This has been discussed some before, and many are aware, but I think it is worth remembering:
Your computer isn’t ‘turned off’ as long as it is plugged in! (that’s why I use surge-suppressors with a power switch)

from Distrowatch:

DistroWatch answers: The Intel Management Engine (or Intel ME) is a special feature built into Intel processors which is designed to run autonomously from the rest of the machine. The Management Engine runs its own operating system (based on MINIX) and can continue to function even when the computer is shutdown, assuming the motherboard can still draw power. In theory Intel ME allows administrators to remotely control the computer, however there are a number of security and privacy concerns surrounding having a separate, always-on processor built into the hardware that is able to bypass the computer’s build-in firewall.

An another topic, even though I live there, in the words of my cousin, ‘capitalist greed has made The united states the most powerful, yet corrupt, third-world country on earth’

echo August 17, 2020 1:09 PM

A first-hand account of Britain’s role in the 1953 coup that overthrew the elected prime minister of Iran and restored the shah to power has been published for the first time.

Interesting… Nothing new, of course, but to say the Americans weren’t “all in” on this is probably not quite right. It really was a case of who was in charge on the American side and waiting until the wind changed. There’s quite a long read on the Atlantic, or somewhere similar, giving all the grisly details.


blockquote>“I really do believe it because Mossadegh was a fairly weak character,” the British intelligence officer said. “[O]nce you get highly trained members of the communist party in, it doesn’t take long. We didn’t share the American view that he was acting as a bulwark against communism … we thought he would be pushed by the communists in the long run.”



The Tory party and Brexiters are currently in hock to a network of ex Revolutionary Communist party journalists and lobbyists not to mention Russian money and Koch industries and people like Bannon and his ilk. Brexit has long been a dream of the hard left and hard right. Wedgie Benn who was an embarassment and too extreme even for the Politburo hated the EU and it’s quite ironic how Thatcher turned against the EU at least as far as the Social Chapter went when one of her Chicago School economist advisors whispered in her ear that the French were pursuing a “socialist” programme.

It’s all a bit of a mess.

myliit August 17, 2020 1:48 PM

Oh well, that didn’t last very long

@Sherman Jay, All

re: Apple ARM desktop and laptop hardware

I wonder how soon people might be able to run Windows, BSDs, or Linux(s) natively on it?

How good will the virtualization options be? VirtualBox, Virtualization built into OS (Parallels?), and so on

What threat models will that new Apple hardware be compatible with or help with?

Run TENS or Tails from CD or DVD or from iso file through virtualization on it?

Pros and Cons of it?

SpaceLifeForm August 17, 2020 4:45 PM

@ myliit

There is nothing that says that the duly elected President must reside at 1600.

You may have missed my hint that that the public can turn the Whitehouse into a prison.

Re: mail

The “chain of custody” does not start with your mail carrier, or the person that picks up from mailbox,

The “chain of custody” does not start until it is POSTMARKED.

Note: A stamp cancel is NOT the same legally as a POSTMARK. A rural carrier can hand stamp cancel in order to deliver down the road to a miles away neighbor. But that is not a POSTMARK. It does not convey any “chain of custody” in a legal sense.

See the problems?

Clive Robinson August 17, 2020 5:06 PM

@ echo,

With regards “Chlorinated Chicken” there is actually no need for the use of chlorine near any live stock alive or dead. A safer and more easily available disinfectant which breaks down in the environment safely is hydrogen peroxide (the waste of which is oxygen and water and what’s left of the pathogens etc it’s oxidized).

But there is also a major difference in hens eggs…

In the UK the eggs are “wiped not washed” in the US they are “Washed and god alone knows what else”.

The upshot is there is a protective layer on a hens egg put there by the hen which keeps the nasties from going through the porous shell. In the UK it remains in tact with the result that eggs do not need to be refrigerated (in fact you should never refrigerate eggs[1]) and they are still safe to eat after a week or more neither of which is true for US “washed eggs”.

In the US there are two ways you can preserve shop purchased eggs,

1, Powder them.
2, Freeze them[2].

Both require you to expose the contents of the egg to what is growing on the egg or what chemicals you’ve used to kill the pathogens on the egg. Oh if you do go down the freezing route, check your freezer because the old “star rating” before it got userped for energy efficiency told you what temprature it got down to you realy need it to be below -18C if you want to keep eggs frozen for more than three months.

In the UK we have both of those options and quite a few more, including wet preserving in “water glass” and dry preserving in “salted sand”, straw etc. This is simply because in the UK and other places we do not wash away that protective layer…

Oh and folks remember the way to tell a good egg from a bad egg is to pop the uncooked egg in a bowl of cold water. Like a witch is supposed to float if bad and sink if good the egg only floats when gas builds up in it (ever seen a hard boiled egg with a bit missing at the pointy end? Well that’s where the gas was. Whilst you can boil turning eggs they are the ones that crack most easily. If it’s a US “washed” egg I’d chuck it in the trash as it’s probably got lots of lovely little pathogens in it, UK etc “wiped” eggs are probably still safe to eat if you are healthy as the gas is due to natural break down rather than being infected with pathogens.

Likewise if you crack open a good egg the yolk forms a good rise and the white is quite thick, a turning or bad egg will have a flat yolk and the white will be quite thin and watery/runny. Whilst a turning “wiped” egg is likely to be safe to eat a washed one should be heading for the trash. On cooking programs you will see experienced chefs/cooks breaking eggs into a cup before frying etc. Often you get told that is incase a bit of shell gets in. Well whilst that is true it is not the real reason, which is to see how good the egg is. In a dinner or such like if you order sunny side up with a runny yolk, then they can not use a bad or turning egg, if you order scrambled or easy over then you get the bad or turning egg, it’s only if the cook smells sulfer do they chuck the egg. So remember when ordering eggs for breakfast asking for runny yolks will not only get you a good egg, it will give you something to dip your sausage in (many of the nicer creamy sauces are made with egg yolks, which is why dipping your sausage or smoked salmon in them makes them taste oh so much better).

[1] putting eggs in a fridge or taking them out again causes “thermal shock” and it has the same effect on eggs as it does on very thin glass, that is they crack. Such cracks are a “fast route” for pathogens to get in and breed like crazy thus your breakfest egg becomes “salmonella central”…

[2] It’s fairly easy for most people to freeze eggs when they know what they are doing. Simply, you get a load of ice cube trays and steralize them, you then break the eggs one at a time and seperate the yolk from the white. The yolks go in one ice cube tray the whites in another and keeping then level you put them in the freezer. Then when properly frozen glaze the eggs before you put the egg cubes in plastic bags[3]. Often you end up with more whites than yolks so you can make meringues with them that can be stored in air tight containers with oxygen absorbers for upto six months or more.

[3] Ever heard of “freeze drying” well even when frozen harder than wood water will still come out of meat and other foods, whilst still safe to eat[4] it neither looks as good or tastes as good as you might like. It’s why they mention in some books about the “freeze dip/spray freeze” cycle. In essence when you’ve frozen food down to the lowest temprature you can you then “glaze” it either by quickly dipping it in ice cold water or mist spraying it with chilled water. This ice glaze acts as a sacrificial evaperator preserving the look and taste of the food for far longer. So foods that are rated for three months can be made to last six months to a year. Oh one advantage of freezing meat is that it sort of tenderizes so rather than “hang game” you just leave it in the freezer for half a year or more. I used to have two chest freezers that were full of rabbit and other game and even goat (which tastes like realy good “weather mutton”).

[4] Most solid food stuffs are sterile on the inside. Our ancient North European ancestors knew that in the air a leg of deer etc would fairly often rot[5]. However leave the hide on, char the outside at the tops of flames in a fire tie a rock and a length of “rope” to it and chuck it in the bottom of a cold pond, stream or even river and it would still be safe to cook and eat upto two months or more later, longer in winter. Yes when you pulled it up you would have to skin it which as the hide would be a bit unpleasent and slimy/smelly would not be the nicest of things to do, but wash the meat off and then slow roast it next to a fire and you would have a good feed. Wild pigs hogs/boars being high in fat towards the end of autumn would be a prize catch to “put by” this way, to see you through the winter. Although the fat breaks down faster than the muscle[5] the energy content is way higher, at some point somebody discovered that drier berries and nuts if mixed with rendered down fat would last for weeks if not months, thus such mixtures would get put in the likes of cleaned out hides and even entrails.

[5] Fat or it’s abscence is why you can “hang game” for quite some time. However at some point man discovered that hanging a leg of meat in a tree in the right way in autumn it “air cures” as the moisture effectively gets fast evaporated out by the wind. Such curing which can take a while is what gives us the likes of Spanish and Italian hams, few actually realise that those delightfully tasty thin slices are actually uncooked by heat, it’s the air curing process that breakes the protiens down in a similar way that heat or “nitrate curing” does[6]. It’s also why we have hot and cold smoking as a way to preserve meat and fish not only does the smoke add flavour it kills surface pathogens and limits the processes that make things go manky.

[6] Nitrate curing is fast, but realy bad news as far as human health is concerned. In the US nitrate “pink salt” curing was very nearly baned. But guess what the food industry lied to politicians with a concocted story about “food safety”. Oh and if you read the back of packets in the US looking to avoid “nitrates” the food industry again effectively lie to you, if you see the word “celery” on a cured meat product then guess what, that realy means “nitrates” in quite large quantaties… If you want to see the meat industry perpetuating their lies read one of their hide the truth articles,

The first paragraph is a compleate nonsense “air cured” hams do not need nitrates, and often not even ordinary salt (NaCl). Which should warn you of the bunkum that’s comming next…

The reason for the USDA “cured” lable nonsense is because that is what the food industry lobbied for not as they attempt to portray it as the USDA’s oppresive and incorrect rule making. Oh and the last paragraph repeates the lie that stoped the use of nitrates being baned. That link at the bottom goes of to more bunkum and half truths they have concocted. Science has shown a definate causal link between nitrates and some forms of cancer, and the research papers are not hard to find.

The real reason for this bunkum is that using “nitrate bath/injection” they can cure a ham in less than three days without aby spoilage. Traditional curing takes upto 180days sometimes more and there can be spoilage upto about 30% which is why those genuine air cured “Jamon” are so expensive. Thus the profit of nitrate curing and then hidding it in the labeling is eye wateringly large (oh nitrate injection and baths also add other chemicals that hold water in the meat, there is a product called “York Ham” that is upto 50% injected water by weight similar is true for bacon that “sizzles” when you fry it and it gives of steam and shrinks, traditional dry cure does not, as for smokey bacon don’t ask liquid smoke is used and some of that is just manufactures chemicals).

Clive Robinson August 17, 2020 5:14 PM

@ Sherman Jay,

Your computer isn’t ‘turned off’ as long as it is plugged in!

You forgot to mention that “laptops” and “Smart Devices” etc that now compleatly out number desktops and thats before you –include mobile phones– are always powered as long as there is “juice in the battery”…

SpaceLifeForm August 17, 2020 5:29 PM

@ myliit, moderator, bruce

I believe you, that you did the typo.

I can believe it, from writing style.

But, that is NOT you. You never make such an error. Why would you C+P to do this?

You would not.

The C+P is more work than just typing 4 chars.

But, if the AI is really good, how can your hairdresser really know for sure?

echo August 17, 2020 5:49 PM


While the physics of eggshells is in the same in the UK/EU and US the conditions and processing is not. The law is basically both approaches to egg preservation are legal but once refridgerated they must stay refridgerated. Then there is the issue of long term storage. Unrefridgerated eggs can go straight into a box of slaked lime which due to the wonders of chemistry keeps the eggshells and their protective layer intact. Because of this slaked lime is slightly better than other preservation methods including boxes of straw. The thing to watch is eggs with traces of chicken poo on them as this allows bacteria to cross the shell barrier. If I recall it’s not so much a build up gases in old eggs which causes them to float more the breakdown of the shell allowing pathogens and air to get in?

My eggs go straight in the fridge as I have nowhere else to put them.

It’s best to put warm food in the fridge to cool down before transfering to keep the freezer temperature as low as possible.

If you want to freeze mushrooms slice them up and put them on a tray to chill for half an hour before bagging and freezing so they don’t stick together.

Personally I’m not worried about washing meat and fish under the tap. Most of the “offical” advice seems to be a composite. If people are splashing water all over the place and not washing their hands before handling something else it’s no surprise people catch something. I’m more concerned about people not closing the lid on the lavatory before flushing it so it ejects a mist of bugs and fungi into the atmosphere. As for old towels and computer keyboards and carpet they’re crawling. One of the bigger risks is cross contamination between people. We tend to evolve our own ecosystems and its third parties introducing bugs from wherever which can be a risk hence me getting snotty about towels and closing the lid before flushing. If people knew how much poo was on a three day old towel…

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 17, 2020 6:12 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm

But, if the AI is really good, how can your hairdresser really know for sure?

Now that’s funny!

How about “A little dab will do ya.” Or, “What AI doesn’t know cannot hurt you.”

I know, lame–but am capable of so much less.

SpaceLifeForm August 17, 2020 6:22 PM

@ Clive, MarkH, ALL

Entropy, Random, Information, Philosophy, Insanity



But the one position that doesn’t survive the analysis is to have no position, says another co-author at Griffith, Eric Cavalcanti. “Most physicists, they think: ‘That’s just philosophical mumbo-jumbo,’” he says. “They will have a hard time.”

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 17, 2020 6:24 PM

@ Clive, @ Sherman Jay
Sorry to be so informal with your handle Mr. Robinson, but I feel I have the liberty but may lack the respect. I’m joking of course, loads or respect and fealty in your direction. And apologizes to Mr. Jay, I appreciate your participation and have not had the opportunity to engage you in Socratic dialog.

Of power supplies, the modern switching power supply has for the last twenty years represented a real problem to me. One, state is maintained between the host main system board and the power supply. Two, a uProc on the power supply with a communications channel, SPI or SMBus typically, and the lack of a method to forcible synchronize the two elements that share a common control plane. I’ve seen systems become unbootable due to a logically failure on a power supply. I remember the day when a switch meant that the system was not energized, it was between the power source and the first stage transformer coil. It also allowed the power cord to be an effective antenna.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 17, 2020 6:33 PM

@ myliit
You’re catching on–in my original statement the identity and source are left vaguely expressed. As a true believer (hint, sarcasm) I must allow the righteous the opportunity to rule over me…please tell me what to do and think as I am weak and incapable of defending myself from mediocrity.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 17, 2020 6:34 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm
Of course there is always superposition, just had to isospin that one up.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 17, 2020 6:42 PM

@ echo

Blackholes and neutron stars are one of those things which give me panic attacks

Anytime I see an object in nature that demonstrates a high level of symmetry I get anxious…there is a large black hole about 300,000 parsecs from here that has a very scary sphericity, the curvature is so perfect, so smooth, that it immediately suggests trouble.

Clive Robinson August 17, 2020 7:04 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

Entropy, Random, Information, Philosophy, Insanity

It’s not just the quantum world it’s the macro world we live in as well.

I’ve pointed out on a number of occasions that for any observed event there are N+1 “truths” that is each of the N observers see the event from their “Point Of View”(POV) and they are all slightly different. The +1 is what you might call the “real truth” which nobody can see because there is no “Universal POV”.

However if I understand the article –I’ve not read the paper yet– then the +1 is infact not the “Real Truth” but a supposition of “all potential truths” about the event (it sounds in effect like the many universes idea in different clothing).

Clive Robinson August 17, 2020 7:27 PM

@ name.withheld…, echo,

there is a large black hole about 300,000 parsecs from here that has a very scary sphericity, the curvature is so perfect, so smooth

There is a school of thought that says that it could not be perfectly spherical even if it were not spining…

The simple fact is that whilst we’ve been often told “nothing can escape a black hole”[1] it does not mean the black hole is uneffected by the rest of the universe. Thus it will be distorted by not just matter falling into it, but also by gravity from the rest of the universe.

Thus the question arises as to what happens if two black holes moving at a sizable fraction of the speed of light pass each other. Conventional non relativistic mechanics suggest that they will infact orbit each other even if it’s not a closed orbit. Chuck in relativity and things get a little weird, in that there is a possibility they will make each other oscillate as a quadrapole, which means in effect the black holes will change shape getting fatter in one direction whilst getting thinner in the orthagonal direction and then back the other way again. That is the black hole will behave like a quivering water drop in free fall…

[1] Steven Hawking actually showed that the statment eas probably false with “Hawking Radiation”. But there is also a thought experiment using two entangled particles that lets information escape.

echo August 17, 2020 8:24 PM


Here’s a light article giving an overview of US style chicken production from pre-WWII to the modern day and beyond.

There’s a fascinating series on Youtube by “Glen and Friends” (a Canadian) on his attempts to reverse engineer KFC. He explains all the whys and wherefores in his videos for picking KFC, the changes which took place from the beginning when Colonel Sanders first began making pan friend fried chicken through to him selling the US operation and disputes over food quality after this point and the whys and wherefores of KFCs changing recipies and production and differences of KFC sold around the world.

In the UK it seems many people don’t realise or don’t remember exactly how much as a percentage of earnings food and fuel used to cost. I forget the number but on average it was 30% or more of average earnings. The price of electrical and electronic goods has plummeted too. A lot of changes in income distribution happened too with the super rich effecively paying no tax as they wangled both higher incomes and lower tax to inflate their way to the top which basically meant a currency devaluation for the rest of us. Women also have more career choices today. Well within living memory it used to be nursing or admin or the kitchen sink for a lot of women unless they were lucky. As for clothes and so on the price of this stuff has plummeted too and choice has exploded. My head is spinning just thinking about it. So how come we have stupid property prices and the “gig” economy and people queuing in foodbanks during a pandemic? Something doesn’t seem right about this.

echo August 17, 2020 8:34 PM

I am genuinely interested in what quantum physicists would make of bureaucracy if they applied the same reasoning as they did with particles and quantum stuff and black holes. There are philosphies, mostly Doaist but others too, which attempt to derive truths from observing the natural world. This makes me wonder what truths in physics may be derived from studying bureaucracy.

There’s also interesting comparisons to be had with “security” going overboard and becoming bad and the way the #metoo and #blacklivesmatter campaigns spilled over and were disowned by their creators.

Sherman Jay August 17, 2020 10:31 PM

@Clive Robinson
RE: Your computer isn’t ‘turned off’ as long as it is plugged in!

Thanks for the amplification. Of course, you’re right. Every processor that has any power avail. is ‘on’. Even Television sets need to be ‘on’ to respond to a remote control command.

I regularly go into computer settings for clinic clients and turn off booting from any network connection, PXE boot, and also disable ‘connect remotely’.

I even tell people about the fact that if they have dozens of ‘wall-warts’ for powering and charging devices, they consume a small amount of electricity as long as they are plugged in and that can add up when plugged in 24/7. It’s interesting to note how ‘warm’ a ‘mains’ power adapter gets when plugged in with no load vs. when the device is connected and active. Some are quite efficient (true Dell A.C. adapters). But a guy gave me a cheap (chinese) knock-off adapter and it gets almost too hot to handle when powering a laptop.

Also, I remember on a relative’s farm, they knew about the protective coating on hen’s eggs. If they needed to keep them for a while they would not clean them off but would coat them with ‘sodium silicate solution’ also called ‘egg keep’ in those days.

Sherman Jay August 17, 2020 10:47 PM


The first personal computers I worked with (mid 1980’s) had a power supply with an actual ‘big red’ on/off switch. I was curious and put a milliamp meter in the power cord and the switch actually cut all power. What a novel idea. /s

The switching power supplies of today do have a lot of ‘voodoo’ going on. Much more that just +/-12V +/-5v. I once tried to use one to power only a very small 5vdc motor, but it would not put out any voltage at that tiny current draw. I’ve not looked into it, but the auto low voltage of some power supplies for the CPU is strange compared to the early motherboards that had voltage adjusting jumpers. Ahhh, I’m a dinosaur!

Also, forgive me, I must be very tired, the mention of socratic dialog brought to mind the irreverent but hilarious ‘philosopher’s song’ ‘Oh, Emanual Kant was an old piss-ant’ and on.

echo August 17, 2020 11:09 PM

Chinese “century eggs” are another preservation method. A modern method is “…soaking raw eggs in a solution of table salt, calcium hydroxide and sodium carbonate for 10 days, followed by several weeks of aging while wrapped in plastic,…” I wouldn’t want to eat one but they are popular in China, Taiwan, and elsewhere in East Asia.

Sodium carbonate (a.k.a soda crystals) has a lot of household uses.

Sodium percarbonate is a useful organic bleach and the active ingredient in products such as Oxiclean (which also contains enzymes). It’s relatively cheap when bought in bulk on its own and good for cleaning towels in the wash and other whites.

Hydrogen peroxide is cheaper when sourced as a hair product than from the pharmacy. Meanwhile, very high grade olive oil used in top end makeup cleansers (which also contain percentages of the very unglamorous surficants, emulsifiers, and anti-oxidants and plain old rosewater as popularisd by “From Russia with Love”) are ruinously expensive but the exact same stuff can be found in (still very expensive but not stupidly so) premium olive oils sold for cooking. DHC cleansing oil works out at £100 per litre…

echo August 18, 2020 12:21 AM

Novelty aside, the foundation said there were important practical considerations behind the unusual toilets, which it likened to a “curious piece of playground equipment”.

“There are two concerns with public toilets, especially those located in parks,” it said. “The first is whether it is clean inside, and the second is that no one is secretly waiting inside.”

Using new technology, the foundation said the cubicles’ glass outer walls turn opaque after the door is locked, allowing prospective users to survey the interior before spending a penny.

“At night they light up the parks like a beautiful lantern,” it added.

JonKnowsNothing August 18, 2020 2:12 AM

@Clive @MarkH @All

re: COVID-19 Human-Mink transmission

Reported 08 17 2020: 2 Mink Farms in Utah, USA have COVID-19.

  • Five infected mink have been identified at two large farms in Utah
  • The farms reported unusually high mortality rates
    After unusually large numbers of mink died at the farms, the Utah Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory completed necropsies on several of the affected animals.
  • The Department of Agriculture began testing the farms reported high mortality rates
  • People who had contact with the animals have also tested positive
  • There is currently no evidence that animals, including mink, play a significant role in spreading the virus to humans
    note: This is not the finding from the outbreaks in Europe and Spain where Human – Mink – Human transmission was detected and the cull ordered to prevent further Mink-Human transmission.
  • The farms “will be composting” the affected mink on site “so these animals would not be leaving the farms where these infections have broken out.”
  • There are no plans on mass culling as in Spain and Europe due to claims that the Utah farm layouts have better “biosecurity” than in Europe.
  • Utah is one of the top mink breeders in the USA

Generically, if you cannot keep COVID-19 from slaughterhouses, packing sheds, harvesting teams and other shoulder-to-shoulder work situations, you won’t be able to keep humans with COVID-19 from infecting mink.

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Plus other MSM reports, USDA, World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE) and other world/government portals.
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Clive Robinson August 18, 2020 2:33 AM

@ echo, ALL

    “At night they light up the parks like a beautiful lantern,”

That made me laugh, speak of cultural difference oppsies[1].

There is a now quite old uper middle class expression for working class drunkards and their florid faces with Rudolph like noses,

    Oh look a pisspot all aglow

[1] Oppsies are little ammusing and quite forgivable etiquet mistakes often caused by a non native speaker not knowing a local colloquialism. Faux pas however are etiquet mistakes mostly by native speakers and generaly not acceptable, such as telling a ribaled joke in mixed company. The title of one of his informal books was a hostesses reply to his oppsies and Faux Pas “Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman!”.

Clive Robinson August 18, 2020 3:01 AM

@ JonKnowsNothing, ALL,

This is not the finding from the outbreaks in Europe and Spain where Human – Mink – Human transmission was detected and the cull ordered to prevent further Mink-Human transmission.

One of the things I’ve been woried about since this pandemic was first muted was human-animal-human transmission with the animal not being badly effected by the virus, thus acting as longterm disease reservoirs.

We now know that members of the cat and rodent populations are actually susceptable to the virus and some have suspicions about other animals that come into close contact with humans such as ruminants or porcines.

Whilst the US might turn a blind eye for commercial reasons this is most certainly not true of other nations.

New Zealand which has now got a cluster after 102 clear days is investigating quite intently as to why, and I suspect they will be quite open about the results.

The four options were,

1, Contact with someone from abroad.

2, A slow burn “typhoid mary” type spreader.

3, Contact with frozen virus via food stores etc.

4, Zoonotic transfer from an animal reservoir.

The first two have so far been ruled out via philogenetics. Leaving the posibility of frozen virus which although very bad and known to happen is atleast managable, and an animal disease reservoir which would be catastrophic. In theory a disease reservoir in domesticated (pets) or semi-demesticated (live stock) animals is controlable via culling, but if it is in vermin such as rats then it’s going to be uncontrollable.

So as you can imagine I’m keenly awaiting verified news from New Zealand, more in dred than hope.

Clive Robinson August 18, 2020 3:22 AM

@ ALL,

If you thought your politicians were doing badly over COVID-19, here is a partial list of UK political blunders,

I say “partial” because those are only the ones the “bumbling quiff” has done a “reverse ferrit” (U Turn) on.

There are many many more such as paying millions “sight unseen” for test kits and PPE that were useless… Maybe I could sell them the statue of liberty 😉

myliit August 18, 2020 4:42 AM


“You’re catching on– …”

Thanks for the, uh, atta co-person. I may have, vaguely, recognized something , too, related to memories of trying [trying] to inductively prove something as an undergraduate.

myliit August 18, 2020 4:53 AM

@SpaceLifeForm, moderator, bruce

SLF wrote: “I believe you, that you did the typo. …”

I could have been more specific. I hate it when someone, or some bot, says “see above” referring to somewhere in some long document.

myliit August 18, 2020 5:47 AM

@SpaceLifeForm, Bruce

“…You may have missed my hint that that the public can turn the Whitehouse into a prison. …”


“… See the problems? [re:Mail]”

I see lots of potential problems/challenges. But auditable paper, even if it’s on the floor in a post office, appeals to me at present, if mailed early, and receipt verified, if possible …

Maybe Bruce and legal eagle election experts might weigh in on this type of stuff somewhere.

fwiw, a Democratic landslide probably wouldn’t hurt.

JonKnowsNothing August 18, 2020 10:29 AM

@Clive @MarkH @All

re: New Zealand Gene Sequencing COVID19

I am also very interested in what the Kiwi’s find out. Some interesting bits have been dropped; the big one was that the border guardians were not being tested at the rate that the PM Ardern thought they were.

Earlier on Tuesday Ardern revealed that although she thought all border workers were being tested for Covid-19, in reality, less than 40% were.

Mandatory weekly testing for port and border staff has now been introduced


A new case of Covid-19 separate from the main cluster has been confirmed in New Zealand, with the infected person identified as a maintenance worker in a quarantine hotel in Auckland.

the strain of the virus the worker became infected with correlates to a guest from the US who stayed at the hotel in quarantine in late July and tested positive for Covid-19 on 31 July.[in bound returning Kiwi]

There was no evidence the infection occurred through “person-to-person contact”… meaning it most likely spread through contaminated services.

The Auckland outbreak is 69 and appears to be all one group.

Across the water some in Australia they have tracked most of their huge outbreak to their quarantine hotels too.

state’s bungled hotel quarantine program that 99% of all current coronavirus cases in Victoria are linked to outbreaks at two inner-city hotels in May.

vast majority of the cases of Covid-19 in Victoria can be traced back to a single family that returned to Australia in mid-May

[for a second group]12 were linked to a cluster at the Stamford Plaza Hotel, where 46 cases were connected to a man who tested positive after returning to Australia on 1 June, or a couple who tested positive after arriving in Australia in mid-June.

It’s a bit difficult to tell the players without a program however, the big reservoir is in the quarantine hotels. Some reports indicated the NZ worker and some hotel staff were infected after the guests had left and the room had been “cleaned”. The room got cleaned again. The OpSec failures cannot just be Trumpisms, clearly at this point Andres Tegnell’s Herd Immunity Policy Kill Em All Kill Em Faster, can be spotted at work.

re: Andres Tegnell

Andres Tegnell had to cough up his emails about his Herd Immunity Kill Rates, and the reading (via translation) is hardly uplifting.

Sweden’s light-touch approach to Covid-19 has come under renewed criticism after emails show the country’s chief epidemiologist appearing to ask whether a higher death rate among older people might be acceptable if it led to faster herd immunity.

“One point would be to keep schools open to reach herd immunity faster,” Tegnell commented. [Mika Salminen, and the head of the Swedish national health agency, FHM] Salminen replied that the Finnish health agency had considered this but rejected it because “over time, the children are still going to spread the infection” to other age groups.

Finland’s modelling suggested closing schools would reduce the spread of Covid-19 among elderly people by about 10%, Salminen said in the email. Tegnell replied: “10% might be worth it?”

Sweden subsequently closed its schools for over-16s, but kept those for younger pupils open and insisted on full attendance. Families, including those in high-risk groups, have been reported to social services and faced fines for keeping children at home.

For New Zealand they are already prepping a “idunno” response to their source of outbreak.

Health authorities are investigating the ports, the international airport and a cool store that handled freight for clues to where the virus entered New Zealand, but have warned the “index case” of the Auckland cluster could never be found. The cool store facility in west Auckland has been effectively “ruled out” as a potential site of infection.

If it didn’t come from a mink and it didn’t come from another human and their genome sequencing shows up a phantom-gene sequence, there is going to be Trouble In River City – Globally.

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Curious August 18, 2020 1:39 PM

Unsure if something having been already mentioned:

Article date: July 28:
(“Rite Aid deployed facial recognition systems in hundreds of U.S. stores”)

Apparently ‘Rite Aid’ is a pharmacy store franchise or something like that.

“Over about eight years, the American drugstore chain Rite Aid Corp quietly added facial recognition systems to 200 stores across the United States, in one of the largest rollouts of such technology among retailers in the country, a Reuters investigation found.”

“Last week, however, after Reuters sent its findings to the retailer, Rite Aid said it had quit using its facial recognition software. It later said all the cameras had been turned off.”

I think even having tested this and stopping (if true), is unethical enough.

vas pup August 18, 2020 2:47 PM

The algorithms that make big decisions about your life

“In many ways, the insurance industry pioneered using data about the past to determine future outcomes – that’s the basis of the whole sector, according to Timandra Harkness, author of Big Data: Does Size Matter.

Getting a computer to do it was always going to be the logical next step.

=>”Algorithms can affect your life very much and yet you as an individual don’t necessarily get a lot of input,” she says.

“We all know if you move to a different postcode, your insurance goes up or down.

“That’s not because of you, it’s because other people have been more or less likely to have been victims of crime, or had accidents or whatever.”

Innovations such as the “black box” that can be installed in a car to monitor how an individual drives have helped to lower the cost of car insurance for careful drivers who find themselves in a high-risk group.

Might we see more personally tailored insurance quotes as algorithms learn more about our own circumstances?

“Ultimately the point of insurance is to share the risk – so everybody puts [money] in and the people who need it take it out,” Timandra says.

===>”We live in an unfair world, so any model you make is going to be unfair in one way or another.”

!!!Big data and machine learning have the potential to revolutionize policing.

In theory, algorithms have the power to deliver on the sci-fi promise of “predictive policing” – using data, such as where crime has happened in the past, when and by whom, to predict where to allocate police resources.

But that method can create algorithmic bias – and even algorithmic racism.

“It’s the same situation as you have with the exam grades,” says Areeq Chowdhury, from technology think tank WebRoots Democracy.

“Why are you judging one individual based on what other people have historically done? The same communities are always over-represented”.

Earlier this year, the defense and security think tank RUSI published a report into algorithmic policing.

It raised concerns about the lack of national guidelines or impact assessments.

====>”The question is, are you testing it on a diverse enough demographic of people?” Areeq says.”

Yeah, proper planning of feeding diverse testing data is key to get good AI outcomes thereafter.

echo August 18, 2020 2:54 PM


When someone finds something beautiful and it’s lifting their day sometimes trampling all over it is not a good idea.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 18, 2020 2:59 PM

@ Sherman Jay

Also, forgive me, I must be very tired, the mention of socratic dialog brought to mind the irreverent but hilarious ‘philosopher’s song’ ‘Oh, Emanual Kant was an old piss-ant’ and on.

Whew, I thought you were headed in the more nihilistic non-determinism of Nietzsche…I’m better now. I doubt there is much if any of Nietzsche’s work can be put to a song–and am surprised Kant is worthy of lyrical credits for a anything more than a measure.

19th century philosophers get the same respect receieved in the 20th century suggesting that their conceptual philosophies did not hold. There contributions though have led to thought outside the classic Locke, Descrate, and Hume. These later mentioned philosophers are more amenable to a lyrical treatment thanthe former. And as Spinoza’s assertions are in play in much of my writing, with a heavy Paine influence, few contemporaries speak well and effectively to our new amorality…Justice Steven Bryer surprised me last month in his written opinion on the Montana state’s right case respecting religious schools funded by taxpayers.

I guess if you have a case before the U.S. Supreme Court you’ll need representation that has argued before the Spanish Inquisition of the 14th century.

vas pup August 18, 2020 2:59 PM

Germany sees record spike in money laundering cases — report

“Germany’s Financial Intelligence Unit says suspected cases of money laundering and terrorist financing jumped by 50% in 2019. ===>The real estate market is especially vulnerable when it comes to suspicious transactions.

According to an advance copy of the Financial Intelligence Unit’s (FIU) 2019 annual report released to the paper, the bulk of those cases were flagged by German banks and other financial institutions, as well as notaries and real estate agents.

The cases were linked to a total of 355,000 suspicious transactions.

==>”One problem for us is that the prosecution of money laundering in Germany isn’t traditionally well established,” FIU head Christof Schulte told the Tagesspiegel.

‘Extreme vulnerability’ in property market

In its annual report last year, the FIU registered just over 77,000 cases of money laundering and noted an “extreme vulnerability” in Germany’s real estate market when it came to dubious business deals.

German lawmakers passed a raft of anti-money laundering measures in November in an attempt to tackle the problem and bring the country in line with EU directives. Among other changes, the
===>legislation imposed stricter regulations obligating real estate agents, notaries, precious metals dealers and auction houses to declare suspicious transactions.

Anti-corruption group Transparency International had called on Germany to implement reforms after finding that about €30 billion ($34 billion) of illicit funds were funneled into German real estate in 2017. It said criminal networks, particularly the Italian Mafia, had managed to exploit legal loopholes to launder money through properties in Germany.

===>According to the organization, 15-30% of all proceeds from criminal activities are invested in real estate, either through building and renovating, or buying, selling and renting.”

How about our FINCEN on that?

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 18, 2020 3:14 PM

@ Clive
Don’t remember the Royal Astronomical Society or USNO number of the object, discovered in 2011 there was a deep space photograph published that you’d have a hard time splining given the objective sphericity…it is simply amazing. If I can find the object in question I will definitely forward it on. Feel bad about not having ready access to the original publication, I must be getting old.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 18, 2020 3:19 PM

@ myliit

Going to have to get back to you, as your contributions are substantive and useful I need to respectfully dialogue on topic but do not have the time at present. Just want to flush out what appears to be a shared perspective and concern for what has so much in turmoil at this moment. As I said before with Paine, history found him and he was in the moment. I call him the first humanist.

MarkH August 18, 2020 3:30 PM

Re: surface treatment of bird eggs

The discussion has been an eggcellent eggzample of the eggstraordinary breadth and depth of knowledge in our learned commentariat. Truly eggzemplary!

PS my only eggscuse for this comment is “lockdown fever”

JonKnowsNothing August 18, 2020 3:50 PM

re: the high-tech laptop stealing German wild pig

It seems that some are “not amused” by the antics of the wild sow accompanied by her piglets when she absconded with the laptop of an au-natural picnic goer.

The locals thought it a hoot and a great uplift from the doom and gloom with tasteful images of the au-natural gent racing the pig for the laptop. The pig ran faster but dropped the laptop which the man recovered so it was a win-win.

Except the local enforcers of pig etiquette say the pig has cross the boundary of accepted wild pig behavior and plan/intend to kill the offending sow and her offspring.

Elsa and her piglets would have to be “withdrawn as a matter of priority” – a bureaucratic euphemism for killing them.

[A petition to save the] “cheeky but peaceful sow from Teufelssee” had collected more than 5,300 signatures by Monday afternoon.

And this for the official oxymoron comment of the day

Marc Franusch, a spokesman for Berlin’s forestry commission, said it remained uncertain whether and when the wild boar would be shot. “It is the wrong time of year,” he told local media. “Due to the age of young, it is forbidden to shoot them right now.”

There is another unstated problem: African Swine Fever ASF. This highly contagious and fatal disease to pigs threatens global pork production. There have been outbreaks in nearby countries causing mass culls in pig farms there.

ASF remains active and viable for a very long time in the environment and also in pork products that have been contaminated. It doesn’t pose a problem for humans eating a ham sandwich in the park but if Elsa and Her Piglets got some ASF tainted ham sandwiches due to her public foraging for leftovers or unattended food supplies, an outbreak of ASF could happen with ground zero being Berlin all because of a human fondness for Black Forest Ham.

Urban wild pigs are not always so charming or coy. In the last breakout of ASF in the region, all the wild pigs in the area where killed. Even the old bones of dead pigs can start an outbreak.

Aside from the Ranger expecting a nice free three-some of pig carcasses, it really doesn’t look that good for Elsa and her Piglets to remain free in the park.

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weather August 18, 2020 4:37 PM

@vas pup
Policing AI is a self filling prophecy.
The Ai directs more police to a area, they discovery more crimes….
The Ai needs continued training, but how to intupret the data to information is the key.
If you think about other areas in science, technology or health are the current problems because the data wasn’t changed properly? Can you get access to the data they used.

Clive Robinson August 18, 2020 5:17 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing,

There is another unstated problem: African Swine Fever ASF. This highly contagious and fatal disease to pigs threatens global pork production.

Yes ASF appears to be running riot in Poland and China.

As my son pointed out to me this evening whilst we were chatting before supper, China is trying to “out source” it’s hog production to the “Americas” and is trying to persuade Argentina or Brazil to take on the work.

However the Argentinian people according to some press releases are “up in arms” about it because of the dangers of ASF[1] and the Brazilian leaders are currently trying for some reason unknown to get in tight with the USA political leadership.

But the point my son was making was that “outsourcing food production” is the first step on a slippery slope that leads to loss of National Sovereignty. Thus the ASF might be seen in fifty to a hundred years as the defining moment that spells the end of the Chinese Communist Party…

But there is one thing that is going to raise issues. As you note ASF hangs around and Chinese farmers know that they won’t be raising hogs for a decade or so. Hog raising tends to be “land efficient” and hogs can do well on “crop waste” that is they can turn the stalks stems and leaves into not just human consumable protien but useful fertilizer way faster than composting etc. Thus raising hogs is effectively a “cash crop” that makes the Chinese farms sufficiently profitable to carry on producing other non meat food stuffs.

So the usual consequence of a process ceasing to be profitable is it either stops or gets subsidised for some reason (see rice production in Japan for example). Whilst China could subsidize farms for a decade, that is a cost they probably do not wish to carry. So it’s likely Chinese internal food production will fall and that they will “out source” more and more of their food production abroad.

The thing is and it’s something the US needs to be acutely aware of as well, is that once farms close the land goes sour and they tend not to reopen again ever. Because even sour land can be profitably be utilized for other things such as home building, in which case the farms are gone for good.

Why does the US need to be acutely aware of this? Well much of the farming in the US is “meat and wheat” or corn. Currently because of rhe very poor working conditions in meat processing plants the disease runs riot thus many are closed, the farmars can not sell their meat products thus are “culling and composting” which means they are heading for bankruptcy as fast as a runaway freight train. But US meat production is not “grass grown” but fed on feed from millers who’s primary feed stock is wheat and corn. Thus with no market the feed millers will go bankrupt as well. At which point raising live stock on the US will cease to be viable to restart…

Thus between COVID and ASF animal protien is likely to get expensive and not that many in the US can raise rabbits or fowl or other livestock on their land because of Home Owner Associations and regional zoning…

Something will have to give both in China and the US and quite a few other places as well.

Otherwise we might find our populations shrinking. It’s no secret that the Western protien and fat rich diet gets humans up in the high end of the hight range, where as vegitarian often low calorific diets give short stature as well as lower fertility. Both Japan and China have a population imbalance with the number of those retired increasing year by year whilst the age people enter the job market is rising due to extended education. Thus the years of “work place” life is falling as is the tax base derived from personal taxation. This also is a detrimental change that will require something has to give…

Which might in part account for why some people welcome COVID as it realy only significantly effects the old or others that are not gainfully employed due to health or other incapacitating reasons.

Most of us would like to live “full happy lives” well in Europe it actually did not take very long for life expectancy to go from a little over sixty to more than eighty. In the US life expectency was likewise rising but over the past decade it has dropped by a couple of years and looks like it is going to continue on that downward trend for the majority of citizens and is unlikely to reverse for obvious reasons.

echo August 18, 2020 9:41 PM

Researchers have demonstrated that they can make a working 3D-printed copy of a key just by listening to how the key sounds when inserted into a lock. And you don’t need a fancy mic — a smartphone or smart doorbell will do nicely if you can get it close enough to the lock.

Yes, this paper makes sense. Everyone on Slashdot is going “Waaah Lockinglawyer” and “Waaah you only need 1-3 minutes to pick a lock” and “Waaah bump keys” and “Waaah…”

Two thoughts: If they’re so bright why didn’t they think of it? Also successful lock picking requires skill and detection avoidance and effort. There may be no line of sight to photograph keys nor opportunities to acquire an impression. Either of these may place the person needing to open the lock outside of the sweetspot so the lockpicking fails before it happens.

Another thing people forget is it’s not always a person on the outside trying to get in but also a person on the inside trying to get out.

Not all scenarios are as easy as may be supposed… There may be a “golden path” where only a small deviation causes an attempt to fail. Just because someone practicing for 10-15 years makes it look easy doesn’t mean it is. Another thing is just because you know someone on the internet doesn’t mean they will magically spring out of a cupboard when you need them or have a distractions quad on hand or way of getting past the cameras or…

SpaceLifeForm August 18, 2020 11:16 PM

Apologies if I missed this earlier.

Ventilation, Ventilation, Ventilation.

The graphic (2nd link) is helpful.

A research team at the University of Florida succeeded in isolating live virus from aerosols collected at a distance of seven to 16 feet from patients hospitalized with COVID-19 — farther than the 6 feet recommended in social distancing guidelines.

Clive Robinson August 19, 2020 1:24 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

    “… succeeded in isolating live virus from aerosols collected at a distance of seven to 16 feet …”

Colour me unsurprised at this news, previous experiments have shown it’s more than possible but a certain group of “supposed experts” have been naysayers all along and have thus painted themselves into a corner.

To my mind what is of most importance in the article is,

    “Neither patient in the room was subject to medical procedures known to generate aerosols, which the WHO and others have contended are the primary source of airborne virus in a hospital setting.”

Remember that the “supposed” experts have clung to this position it’s already been used to “Kill People” with prisons denying inmates the use of CPAP machines because of the “supposed experts”…

Although these are probably adults and probably have labourd breathing and are laying back at around 45-70degrees thus producing more of a fountain effect than a jet effect the results can be carried forward to model children in a class room.

Whilst we may not be killing many children by sending them back to school at the end of this month we are almost certainly going to cause significant community spread…

But as the news paper found those suposed experts are not going to give up on their notions or if you prefere cognative biases,

    “But other experts said it was difficult to extrapolate from the findings to estimate an individual’s infection risk.”

They are clutching at straws and in the process giving not just “ammunition to the enemy” they are also giving faux excuses for dangerous if not leathal behaviour for those with extreamist views and lacking the mental capacity to see beyond themselves and their own selfish wants.

Clive Robinson August 19, 2020 3:53 AM

@ echo, ALL,

With regards “SpiKey” presented at “HotMobile”[1][2] I’ve been aware of how to do this for quite some time as have quite a few engineers, there is nothing new in the individual steps but the pulling them all together and assembling them into a neat little application and writing it all up in an accademic paper is as far as I’m aware a first.

To get a grip on what they are doing you have to know some basic facts that don’t come out very well in either the paper or the presentation.


Firstly unlike lock picking you are not “enumerating the lock” you are infact “enumerating the key”…

It sounds obvious when you say it but most lock pickers would be starting in the wrong mind set.

To see why knowing this is important to get SpiKey to work you have to understand that you need to pick the correct degenerate or base model to start from.

Thus a “one ridge key, six pin lock” model will enumerate the distance between the lock pins and give you very little information other than the key insertion or removal speed and acceleration[3]. Thus you need to start with “multiple ridge key one pin lock” model which gives you a crudly aproximate ridge to ridge time function based on the time between the lock pin clicks[4].

However the ridge to ridge time function is “one dimensional” where as the ridge to ridge positions fall on a physical grid that is two dimensional. Thus you need some way to get two dimensional information out of the one dimensional time. Thus you need atleast two pieces of information. Firstly an initial known start direction and secondly a time to hight function. The first piece of information is known from the lock design that is the pin is rising not dropping. The second piece of information is the angle of the key cutting wheel that gives the slope angle. For easy imagining assume it’s 45degrees which gives a simple linear relationship with rise or fall of the pin with time.

However all you get is a relative profile, that does not give the actual cut depths (bittings). Obvioulsly if you can imagine a “cut line” on a piece of paper over which you overlay a transparancy with the grid pattern you can see that it can only fit in a smaller range than the total number of cut hights. Other bitting rules apply reducing this further and both the paper[1] and presentation[2] give slightly different asspects on this problem.

But the real model is “multiple key ridges and six lock pins” this is going to give the base timing you want from the lead pin in the lock plus five other partial copies from the five following pins. Thus you get six clicks from the first pin five from the second, four from the third and so on giving you twenty one clicks in total. How do you clean out the fifteen unwanted clicks to get just the desired six clicks from the first pin. Well it’s a trick known to many engineers that have to deal with multiple echos in ranging systems like radar and from imperfections in transmission lines. The trick is to realise that if you overlay all five delayed click sequences from the five unwanted pins you can do a simple time based subtraction. That is you take the 21 click spectrum work out the delay and subtract the one click delayed sequence from the undelayed sequence and you end up with six clicks of increasing uncertainty in time which you can apply a well known signal processing technique to to clean up.

But the fundemental idea is one I’ve mentioned several times before which is converting a parallel system of information into a serial system of information[4]. This is a very fundemental EmSec or TEMPEST attack technique and it can be very very powerful and it’s very easy for an inexperienced designer to get wrong and as with analysing the signals from a “loop unrolled” AES encryption algorithm takes the analysis required from the M^N down to just N steps of M individual measurments. Thus from 2^128 to 128×2 in the case of AES. Or in the case of a six pin lock from 10^6 or 1million potentially diferent keys down to just six measurments to find the key cut depth.

Thus there are locks out there where this attack will not work. These have been designed with stopping the “serialisation” of “pin raking”, as well as “Newtonian Phisics” issues that “pick guns”, or “lock bumping” exploit. Thus the key has to be fully inserted into the lock “key way” before it can be pushed up against the locking pins.

[1] The paper :

[2] The presentation :

[3] The key instantanious velocity is needed to get precice key cut depth information, but a simple average of key click timings can give you a first aproximation. Then an iterative process will give you a more precise set of measurments. Any one who has written software to decode the data on mag stripe key or credit cards from an inductive “swipe sensor” will know this because you have to alow for “read head bump” as the leading edge of the plastic card hits it.

[4] It’s essential to understand that the first pin in the lock whilst measuring the distance between key ridges as a time function is also “serialising” what is a physical two dimensional model. If the serialisation does not happen then this type of attack can not work.

echo August 19, 2020 4:26 AM


Firstly unlike lock picking you are not “enumerating the lock” you are infact “enumerating the key”…

It sounds obvious when you say it but most lock pickers would be starting in the wrong mind set.

I got this before I read the paper having half noticed it when I was younger. I only casually glanced at the paper just enough to know it was what I thought it was. It’s not something I have need of nor the skills or inclination for. That said it is nice to know years later it wasn’t just a brainfart. What always intrigued me is whether you could do it by ear. Disappointingly probably not unless you’re a Dolpin. Which opens another load of questions…

I wouldn’t be too pendantic about whether it is the lock or key you are enumerating.

Myself I like the mystery and romance of it all and more questions. Reading Slashdots take was a real buzzkill.

myliit August 19, 2020 4:44 AM


Regarding the P68 and from the well written, fun to read, iPod article:

“… My boss was told I was working on a special project and not to ask questions. …”

myliit August 19, 2020 6:03 AM

Two found at @thegrugq (javascript may be required):

“Active Measures — inside the history of disinformation
As election meddling thrives, Thomas Rid shows how political subterfuge is nothing new …”

“The activists who say they posted BlueLeaks tell the inside story of how the massive trove of police documents revealed how cops were tracking protesters


That began the biggest unauthorized opening of police data in history, BlueLeaks, the posting online of 269 gigabytes of hacked data from more than 200 police agencies across the country. That much information could fill about 150,000 books, the size of a city library.


Intercept Editor in Chief Betsy Reed said in a newsletter to subscribers that BlueLeaks “are like the Pentagon Papers for US law enforcement,” adding in a statement to Business Insider: “As the Pentagon Papers laid bare in bureaucratic detail what Americans already knew about the catastrophic failure of the Vietnam War, the BlueLeaks archive provides concrete, detailed evidence of the skewed priorities and abusive practices of US law enforcement agencies.”

Reed said the most important takeaway from BlueLeaks has been evidence that supports the view that law enforcement has “systematically treated peaceful protesters as terrorists.”

Brian Krebs, a cybersecurity expert, quoted Stewart Baker, a lawyer at the firm Steptoe & Johnson LLP, as saying that BlueLeaks data was “unlikely to shed much light on police misconduct, but could expose sensitive law enforcement investigations and even endanger lives.”

Less than a week later, Twitter banned posts about the data, saying they violated the social-media platform’s distribution of hacked materials policy. Reddit followed suit.


The editor in chief of Distributed Denial of Secrets corroborated Best’s account of the events and said the server’s seizure was unfortunate.

“A lot of things happened quickly,” Lorax B. Horne, who is also a freelance writer in Canada, told Business Insider. “Journalists were just getting used to using the database, and it was gone. That was a real loss, especially for small and independent news agencies that don’t have the resources to manage large datasets.” (The raw, unorganized data is available through the DDOS website.) …”

Wesley Parish August 19, 2020 7:01 AM


Judging on the contents of your comment on BlueLeaks

Reed said the most important takeaway from BlueLeaks has been evidence that supports the view that law enforcement has “systematically treated peaceful protesters as terrorists.”

and so forth, I think there’d be a case for arguing that the police (and the recent examples of US Federal agencies kidnapping protestors off streets in US cities such as Portland, Oregon) are acting as state terrorists:

Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.


Domestic terrorism is the unlawful use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual based and operating entirely within the United States or Puerto Rico without foreign direction committed against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives.

If I was a citizen of the United States of America and was exercising my right to peacefully protest something I find intolerable, and I was kidnapped off the street and held incommunicado for several days and weeks without charges being laid against me, while my friends and family held grave concerns about my life, I would think that would fit the FBI’s working definition of terrorism to a T.

It’s just that the US, having spread the news that that sort of behaviour is state terror during the Cold War now seems addicted to it. And so, some of the judgements of the US Declaration of Independence apply:

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

Up to you if you want this sort of thing to go on. But I’d say you’re facing a choice between a known State Terrorist and someone not quite so tainted this coming US Presidential election.

JG4 August 19, 2020 7:34 AM

@Wes – Thanks for jogging my memory. I just got an invitation to an event featuring The Woz. He’s been teaching in Sydney in recent years.

Unveiling the future of coding

Join us on September 17th as we present Augmented Coding, an AI-powered solution that will forever change the software development industry. We’ve created a brand new way of coding that will shake your world and we want to reveal it to you.

In addition to Steve Wozniak and Michael Feathers, we’ll be announcing our full speaker lineup in the coming days.

The Woz has made similar comments to yours in the past. You’re both right.

JG4 • January 6, 2016 4:33 PM

Steve Wozniak decided to move to Australia precisely because he was taught that bad governments spy on their people, torture, assassinate and start wars.

Big Brother Is Watching You Watch

Researchers Can Duplicate Keys from the Sounds They Make in Locks

How Northern California’s Police Intelligence Center Tracked Protests The Intercept

Miami Police Used Facial Recognition Technology in Protester’s Arrest NBC Miami

Facial Recognition Lobby Urges Caution on U.S. Zeal to Regulate Bloomberg

JonKnowsNothing August 19, 2020 8:11 AM

@Wesley Parish

I think there’d be a case for arguing that the police (and the recent examples of US Federal agencies kidnapping protestors off streets in US cities such as Portland, Oregon) are acting as state terrorists

While on the surface such policing policies are stunning, in practice it is quite common. There are so many law enforcement agencies in the USA that for the most part we don’t even know which agencies do what or how.

We have Federal, State, County, City, Regional, Topic/Product, Specialty and Sub-Specialty agencies. The same train is replicated in each of our military organizations. Areas under Treaty Control have different rules. Areas technically controlled by indigenous groups have their own rules. Each group may or may not dovetail into the other groups. Added to this are our internationally oriented agencies and quasi-legal applications (US laws applied in other countries).

We are one big giant police state with a few No-Mask-Nics on “Hardly Wobbles” going for a ride.

Periodically, an eruption of indignation happens when things get too overbearing. It is the primary job of every government to maintain the status quo for the .05%. The next 2.5% get a free coattail ride. The 97% get the shyte kicked out of them if they get out of line.

There’s always someone interested in doing the kicking. With our without pay.

It’s all in histories, It’s repeated over and over. It’s not new news; it’s as old as written and oral histories can make it. It’s just we have a limited capacity to be aware of what happens until it happens to us.

Even so, there is an interesting aspect that shows up. People do not really forget. They remember. Even after years or decades, they remember. The memories of those gone, stolen, disappeared last generations.

Woody Guthrie wrote a song Deportee

Guthrie was struck by the fact that radio and newspaper coverage of the Los Gatos plane crash did not give the victims’ names, but instead referred to them merely as “deportees” [January 29, 1948]

Those people were not forgotten.

Hernandez’s research of the 1948 Los Gatos DC-3 crash near Los Gatos, California [not the city] which killed 32 people, primarily Mexican farm laborers, resulted in his successful campaign to install a monument at the mass grave site. In 2017, he published the book, All They Will Call You, on the crash and the subsequent investigation.

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name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 19, 2020 8:29 AM

Interestingly it is Julian Assange that is the Queens move against the Castle. Internal theonomic fascists are dismantling structural power in the ongoing dissolving of institutions and administration in the United States.

No longer serving a broad constituency, institutions and agencies are being divvied up into the hands of oligarchs that are hiding behind a faux demos and a shadow Republican party wherein it is fully committed to a cause irrespective of the cost or danger to the domestic public or the world.

Not a death cult but a religious cult willing to embrace a vision that includes Armageddon and “end-times”. Meaning, there is a fundamental belief that the hold of U.S. power should be of a Christian God-head. That their religious theonomic state will reshape the world as it is their right and destiny. This is not a theoretical threat to the U.S. but to the world as there is no natural alliances in this Christian neo-fascism. The central organizing political theory is so combative and course that a central theme and a god-head dilemma means that internal struggles are inevitable–highly unstable and ultimately destructive.

Again, there are no limits to the methods as the belief that at the god-head is a flawless leader–there are no errors. This movement is over 40 years old, the decisions and persons surrounding this cult have been working to this end and the visible end-point is too close to be ignored in any sense. There are many U.S. state governments held by persons that identify as the V.P. Pence has said; God, faith, and country — that is the order.

JonKnowsNothing August 19, 2020 8:43 AM


You need to be careful of conflating animal welfare and environmental diversity with scare stories over animal diseases.

You might have missed a few posts…

If you are unfamiliar with farming, ranching or livestock production, you can check out the global picture:

 World Organization for Animal Health
 Various Veterinary Organizations (by country or global)
 The US Dept of Ag (or country Ag Agency or global Ag Agency)
 UN Food and Ag Committee

Here are few links that will point you to a starting area:
World Organization for Animal Health
UN Food and Ag Committee

Human MDs and Health Care workers spend years learning about Humans and their various diseases. Then spend more years specializing in one small aspect.

Veterinarians have to learn all of the above for every other animal, reptile, fish and bird on the planet. They also specialize in things like Livestock or Horses or Small Animals. They can do all the same treatments for animals that humans get. The main difference is size, fur and disposition.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 19, 2020 9:16 AM

A Ruse or Belarus — 19 AUG 2020
Lukashenko accuses foreign actors of funding the opposition. One has to ask where are the other challengers to Lukashenko’s dictatoral gripe on the government?

You get one guess…okay none.

They are in jail and the current challenger is outside the country and her husband is in jail. Funny that Laverfor is concerned that the issues are not about Lukashenko, but it didn’t say what it was about.

Clive Robinson August 19, 2020 10:10 AM

For all those who space effects their lives.

There have been a few sunspots and solar flares over the past few days, and importantly,

    One of these solar storms is partly Earth-directed and should impact Earth late on August 19 or by midday August 20. This storm is the first “fast” solar storm of this new cycle (compared to the slower, weaker storms during solar minimum).

NASA put it hitting about 21:00UTC onwards, but they do that we will see an edge not full on so they do not yet know how much solar debris is going to come down on us or exactly when it will peek and by how much.

What we do know is those who photograph auroras in the lower latitudes will depending on where they are get something to photograph (Norway, Scotland, England midlands and above, North and East Canada, Alaska, North Russia etc).

HF radio propergation will be affected especially across the poles, and into the VHF bands. Likewise GPS is going to see some inacuracies. And background solar noise is going to go up more than sufficiently to effect low link budget communications.

Oh and frequent fliers the radiation level will be up so try not to fly especially if you are pregnant.

Freezing_in_Brazil August 19, 2020 12:57 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm

Re Spooky Action at Distance (SAD)

SAD has always mystified me, and over the years I’ve come up with various thought experiments attempting to deny/invalidate it, at least to myself. Not that I am stubborn or something like that. Only it’s hard for me to let go of my cherished deterministic little world (I’m a Taurean!), but I am prepared for live in this harsh indeterminate existence, if it finally proves to be so. One of the attempt goes like this:

Prepare two particles so that they are entangled with spins up and down. Put each one into a containment boxes and give one box to Alice and one to Bob. Alice and Bob are told that the boxes contain a spin up or a spin down particle.

Alice should take her box to Mars, while Bob stays on Earth. Both make a deal to open their respective box – and measure its content – at 12:00 UTC (or another agreed-upon time) on April 1st, 2023 (time enough to Alice make it to Mars ans settle herself comfortably).

When the time comes, Alice opens her box to find it contains the Spin up particle. On doing so, she immediately – spookily – knows that Bob’s particle on Earth has its spin down.

Voilà! That’s it! There’s nothing to it, right? The SAD has realized itself at this very moment; Alice gets the information well before it could be conveyed by a radio call. The only down side is that she couldn’t use this information for anything[1]. The Universe has retained its classic features while QM has also been satisfied!

[1]One could say that Alice, to take advantage of the situation (20 precious minutes), has been secretly ordered to push a button to fire an orbiting missile back on Earth, towards some enemy of her country, case the particle’s spin turns out to be up. However, I think the possibility of ordering the missile’s launch had already been encoded in the system all along, so no causality has been violated.

Now, I know I ‘m completely wrong and would like to know your insights.


name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 19, 2020 1:13 PM

The Hubris Affair, Blinding Journalists with Incompetence and Arrogance

From Page 19:

“respecting the national defense–namely, detainee assessments briefs classified up to the SECRET level related to detainees who were held at Guantanamo Bay–and with reason to believe that the information was to be used to the injury of the United States or the advantage of any foreign nation.”

This is so tone deaf as to require one to don government canceling headphones.

Wasn’t the U.S. government activity engaged in undermining the “national defense” by running Guantanamo Bay as a torture and penal colony without charge?

Clive Robinson August 19, 2020 1:48 PM

@ Freezing_in_Brazil,

That’s the “sealed orders/book” argument about Spooky Action at a Distance.

There is a counter argument (whixh I can not remember off the top of my head) but many years ago I asked a then well known physicist the following question,

If I created a whole stream of two entangled particles and I sent each of the pair in opposit directions where one went into a suitably placed detector and the other into a black hole what would I see at the detector as the stream went into the black hole?

In effect I was asking if you could do two things, one convey information out of a black hole, and the second effectively image the black hole by sweeping the stream slowly across it like the electron beam in an old fashioned Cathod Ray Tube (CRT) television camera or screen.

The answer that came back was effectively he would get back to me. I did not get to hear anything, however about a degade ago some French researchers anounced they were going to start looking into it, as far as I’m aware there is still not an answer…

Freezing_in_Brazil August 19, 2020 1:53 PM


For all those who space effects their lives.

Good one 🙂

Not the best of times, as far as I’m concerned


Who? August 19, 2020 1:57 PM

Does someone on this forum know how the Ripple20 zero-day vulnerabilities affect old PC BIOS?

I have quite a few “old” computers (e.g. some Dell Optiplex 780 USFF desktops) that, I guess, will not receive a firmware upgrade for these vulnerabilities. Is disabling IPv4/IPv6 network stacks in BIOS enough to be protected? Can someone confirm the low-level TCP/IP software library developed by Treck, Inc. is used ⸺or not⸺ on these network stacks?


Who? August 19, 2020 2:04 PM

On the previous comment… I know there are some effective countermeasures, apart of air/energy gapping these computers. I know a good firewall and a NIDS may help, as possibly disabling the network stacks used at BIOS level, but knowing these BIOSes are not vulnerable would greatly help. Certainly awaiting for a BIOS update for computers that do not receive one since 2013 is not realistic.

Sherman Jay August 19, 2020 2:04 PM



The liveliest state, however, had to be Rhode Island, which declared itself >>>>>>> the “Calamari Comeback State,” complete with a giant plate of fried squid. <<<<<<<<<

Freezing_in_Brazil August 19, 2020 2:08 PM


blockquote>That’s the “sealed orders/book” argument about Spooky Action at a Distance.<

Thanks. I knew it couldn’t be original.

If I created a whole stream of two entangled particles and I sent each of the pair in opposit directions where one went into a suitably placed detector and the other into a black hole what would I see at the detector as the stream went into the black hole?

In effect I was asking if you could do two things, one convey information out of a black hole, and the second effectively image the black hole by sweeping the stream slowly across it like the electron beam in an old fashioned Cathod Ray Tube (CRT) television camera or screen.

The answer that came back was effectively he would get back to me. I did not get to hear anything, however about a degade ago some French researchers anounced they were going to start looking into it, as far as I’m aware there is still not an answer…

Amazing gedankenexperiment. I’m very fond of thoughts that bring up QM and GR. In fact, I like to think that the counter-intuitive quality of both the Quantum Indeterminacy and the Relativity of reference frames give a hint of hope of unifying the respective theories.


echo August 19, 2020 3:54 PM


You might have missed a few posts…

I haven’t missed anything. There are three issues: animal welfare, environment, and diseases. I was very careful to point out the need for sound and reliable systems and mitigations versus the danger of “shroud waving” from the extremes of discussion. Why? Because people and organisations are not rational and can be political and take shortcuts. You have three different policy domains you need to keep happy. There’s more too such as public health and policing and public finance and probably more but lets not complicate things at this stage because they are secondary inputs.

I have already discussed UK policy frameworks from decades back and subsequent realworld results which, yes, resulted in the BSE scandal and yet more legislation to undo the problems caused by earlier changes. And no the abatoir and market system has never recovered to where it was before the meddling. Oh, yes, and let’s not forget the Dangerous Dogs Act and various other knee-jerk social policies to address a “threat”…

That’s how public policy making, or as close as, works in a nutshell.

Who? August 19, 2020 4:05 PM

On the Ripple20 zero-day vulnerabilities.

As I said a lot of times on this forum, and will repeat again too many times, corporations should be accountable for their unfixed vulnerabilities. Corporations should be legally forced to fix serious vulnerabilities on two decades old hardware too.

But who cares? Cybersecurity is a beautiful word related to running an updated antivirus on the most recent Windows releases, it has nothing to do with protecting the industry and hardening devices that support our life style and our critical infrastructures.

weather August 19, 2020 4:13 PM

There should be a large earthquake on 25-27th.
What hemisphere did it hit? The quake should be on the opposite.

SpaceLifeForm August 19, 2020 4:21 PM

@ Freezing_in_Brazil

I will ponder your method in madness more, but for now, I would have to question whether Alice and Bob can actually know that their clocks are still in sync.

Personally, my INTERPRETATION of reality is that it is just a bunch of interacting waves. And mostly standing waves. But, they have a special counter-intuitive property:

When an event occurs at some locality on the wave, other events occur at other points on the wave. Immediately. The dog wags the tail.

@ Clive

A twist: Two satellites in exactly opposite orbits around a all-seeing detector. The satellites generate exactly the same signal and at the same time.

What will the detector register?

Will it see simultaneous events?

My conclusion is that it can never occur.

The detector can never catch as simultaneous. Blame Heisenberg.

But, is it possible that the detector never sees any events? Because, the signals cancel out?

echo August 19, 2020 4:26 PM


Voilà! That’s it! There’s nothing to it, right? The SAD has realized itself at this very moment; Alice gets the information well before it could be conveyed by a radio call. The only down side is that she couldn’t use this information for anything[1]. The Universe has retained its classic features while QM has also been satisfied!


@Clive Robinson

In effect I was asking if you could do two things, one convey information out of a black hole, and the second effectively image the black hole by sweeping the stream slowly across it like the electron beam in an old fashioned Cathod Ray Tube (CRT) television camera or screen.

Even quantum physicists have a problem with quantum theory due in part to the way peoples brains process information. This is why some misunderstand or cannot adequately communicate their own theories. You have to understand that neurology and psychology and socioloogy play a role in this, or perception and culture and linguistics if you want to put things another way.

Hacking peoples heads and physics theory and the physics itself are not always the same thing. Also English and French (and American) philosophies and traditions (i.e. modes of thought) are different.

As the evidence for the speed of causality not being broken is extremely high it is more likely there is something wrong with the question and its assumptions.

The photonsphere is outside the event horizon. I suspect this is a clue.

vas pup August 19, 2020 4:30 PM

Apple helped make ‘top secret’ iPod for US government

“Apple helped the US government build a “top secret” iPod with hidden sensors inside, a former employee has revealed.

Only four people at the company knew about the project, according to former Apple software engineer David Shayer.

Two men from a defense contractor had arrived at Apple in 2005, on behalf of the US Department of Energy, he said.

They had wanted help to build an iPod that looked and worked just like a normal one but secretly recorded data using hidden extra hardware inside.

Apple had helped the engineers build a custom version of the iPod software to accommodate the secret device, Mr Shayer said.

“They wanted to add some custom hardware to an iPod and record data from this custom hardware to the iPod’s disk in a way that couldn’t be easily detected,” he wrote.

“But it still had to look and work like a normal iPod.”

Mr Shayer never found out exactly what the two engineers were building but
==>suspected “something like a stealth Geiger counter” to measure radiation without being noticed.”

weather August 19, 2020 4:42 PM

The earth is like a motor, with the mantle the rotor and solor winds the amptuire.
The place were the mantle and crust touch is fought, when the mantle changes velocity the energy is transferred to the crust.
When the solor winds hit earths field 10^30 Neurons of force are applied to the core.

echo August 19, 2020 4:44 PM


blockquote>In that case, all charges against the two men, who have had their UK citizenship revoked, would be covered by the guarantee on no death penalty. If that deadline was not reached, according to the report, they would be transferred to Iraq for trial, with the strong possibility of execution.



Strictly speaking as Saddam Hussein was at the time under the jurisdiction of British control he should not by law have been released to Iraq while the death penalty was on the table. Prior to WWII the international law was that the second war was over prisoners were to be returned to the state and there were no laws governing how they could be treated beyond that point so had to be released even where they would not receive a fair trial and be lynched on the spot. This actually did happen to various camp guards who met with grisly ends while Allied soliders stood by and watched. However, this all changed after WWII so the transfer was unlawful on two counts.

I am somewhat curious how having established these terrorists are under British control and how it is unlawful to extradite to a country where the death penality is a prosecution option that not sending the prisoners to the US will result in them being sent to Iraq for potential execution. This does not seem lawful nor logical to my mind but is potentially now an issue of the UK indulging in state torture. While there is no explicit definition of “cruel and unusual punishment” in UK law an equivalent form of words exists within European human rights law. If I were the lawyers I would be asking questions about the coercion being applied to compel testimony and cooperate with a US extradition.

SpaceLifeForm August 19, 2020 4:58 PM

@ Who?

First, never drink ripple.

If your machine(s) are old enough, they should be deployed as routers.

You do not want newer stuff that has ACPI and especially something like RMM becoming your internet facing router.

If there is a hidden backdoor, that is where to look.

ACPI and magic packets is my guess as to where there be dragons.

Long ago, Microsoft decided to write their own AML compiler, and drop use of the Intel AML compiler.

echo August 19, 2020 4:59 PM

@vas pup

Only four people at the company knew about the project, according to former Apple software engineer David Shayer.

I’m curious to know why the CEO was not read in on this and exactly what policies authorised these executives to go along with this. The question also arises whether it was it an official Department of Energy action too. Why the need for a defense contractor? All they need to know are the pin ins and outs and anyone could do that. How does anyone know they were not criminals? Their ID badge? Like that proves anything. Then there is the cute trick of trying (and failing) to get the replacement firmware signed. I’m somewhat doubtful it was a geiger counter. This could be people putting two and two together and making five.

Or maybe everything is as they say…

echo August 19, 2020 5:09 PM

Except this is not the end. Instead the extremely deliberate marginalisation of parliament under Johnson and Dominic Cummings is emerging into plain sight. The Covid-19 pandemic conceals this, because it is so obviously an exceptional time and because the socially distanced parliament is stuck in second gear. But do not be deceived. We are witnessing the attempted overturning of an established system of representative democracy that can almost be described as a quiet coup.

Yes it is a coup and I’ve had this impression since Cameron got into power.

SpaceLifeForm August 19, 2020 5:16 PM

@ vas pup

suspected “something like a stealth Geiger counter” to measure radiation without being noticed.”

I do not buy that explanation either.

I can come up with other covert reasons.

But, it is a plausible cover story.

lurker August 19, 2020 5:21 PM

@Freezing_in_Brazil, re south-atlantic-anomaly

I was following along, right to the point where they wanted someone to send “huge magnets into space”. Riiight, they might as well have suggested that the weak spot was where virus was falling to earth…

Of course if a Carrington event occurrs during a field reversal, it’s Game Over Man.

SpaceLifeForm August 19, 2020 8:04 PM

@ Weather

Still ticking. Got a time estimate to find ‘Weather!’ ?

My guess for earthquake would be NE China.

It’s weird. Most landmass antipodal leads to ocean. Guessing that mother nature and physics are in collusion.

weather August 19, 2020 9:18 PM

Its normally 5-7 days, based on sitickes instead of fluid dynamic.
The mantle is a verbosity flow, were each layer slowly picks up speed from the below layer and sufes by amount in a direction.
There could be thousands of layer, not referring to core,mantle, crust.
If it hit the southern hemisphere when it was night in new Zealand, yes China, otherwise probably calfiniona.

My dialexesa is playing up sorry.

SpaceLifeForm August 19, 2020 9:41 PM

@ Myllit

He is nailing it.

We all can nail it.

Don’t be one of the approximate third that failed to vote in 2016.

Do not buy the disinformation on Facebook.

Do not let the bots misdirect you!

All Blue!

Build it back better!

Do not let them take away your power!

4 words:

Wear a mask. Vote.

SpaceLifeForm August 19, 2020 10:15 PM

@ Myliit

I thought he (44) nailed it.

Kamala Harris brought tears to my eyes.

Wear a mask. Vote.

SpaceLifeForm August 19, 2020 11:03 PM

@ vas pup

re iPod and Maxwell Smart

maybe Q is involved?


The companies, of course, would be rewarded for their help, with fat government contracts.

He couldn’t give them too much information about his work; it was highly classified, after all.


name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons August 20, 2020 4:14 AM

Con-your-way, twitter feed — A Folk Tale
Trump has a singular performance tactic, an operational set of transactions that look like (sung to the tune of Fiddler on the Roof);

  1. Lie; the story that is to take on the mantle of truth,
  2. Deny; as the lie is laid fallow, deny that is what was said, or what was meant, or that it was a joke,
  3. Attack; An issue that persists, target the naysayers and poor/loser [reporter, governor, senator, business person, camera, tv]
  4. Litigate; delay the truth an additional 6 to 48 months by filing suit claiming some other nonsense.
  5. Liable; don’t take responsibility, at all. Make it someone else’s problem such as the phony/fake [reporter, governor, senator, man, woman, camera, tv]
  6. Confess that you’re a horrible person; man, woman, camera, tv.

And no, I do not have a suggestion on how to get the most out of your clown shoes and Arse-Hat.

Who? August 20, 2020 9:00 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm

I will take your advice about never drinking ripple; but this time it seems we had no choice. 🙂

Sadly these machines would not be great routers/firewalls. These are all-in-one workstations, like this one. With a single network interface and ACPI these are not the best machines to put on a network perimeter. On the other hand, these machines come with Intel ME disabled during manufacturing process (you know what I am saying, one of these Dell workstations with a “Intel ME DISABLED 3” label inside).

These computers are behind a Juniper SRX100H gateway, configured to block all incoming traffic (except the one originated as a reply to packets coming from the internal network), and are running OpenBSD-current. Of course, disabling the IPv4/IPv6 network stacks in BIOS is the first thing I did, as part of the hardening process.

As I understand it, Ripple20 affects network stacks from corporations as Teradici (PCoIP), Intel (AMT), and others. As Dell PowerEdge servers are not affected, my hope is that BIOS is not running the Treck TCP/IP network stack implementation.

myliit August 20, 2020 9:47 AM

re: Bechtel iPod

my guess is that Jobs, or Cook, or etc., knew about the, or probable, custom iPod, but things were structured, or done, to allow for plausible deniability.

Of course that guess could be wrong …

myliit August 20, 2020 11:45 AM

“Note two things about the Bannon indictment. 1. it explains why Trump-Barr removed US Attorney Berman so precipitously. 2. SDNY made case not with FBI, but Postal Inspectors and internal SDNY agents. Open question: did SDNY seek approval for charges from Barr (wd not need to)? …”

@AWeissman_ again: “Looking forward: will Bannon flip? And even if pardoned by Trump (in spite of Trump’s denigrating him), SDNY can then put Bannon in the Grand Jury to obtain his testimony.


Press release on Bannon is revealing: no FBI involved

“ Leaders Of ‘We Build The Wall’ Online Fundraising Campaign Charged With Defrauding Hundreds Of Thousands Of Donors


“Steve Bannon and three associates just got indicted in SDNY for defrauding investors in their We Build the Wall “charity,” from which they skimmed about a million dollars.

The alleged fraud here is pretty garden variety: raising funds to pay for a wall and instead pocketing a good chunk of the money.

But it’s significant because it comes just months after Billy Barr tried to replace then-US Attorney Geoffrey Berman with a handpicked successor. Berman responded by insisting that all SDNY investigations would continue as they were proceeding, and he refused to resign until he ensured that his Deputy, Audrey Strauss, would take over.

No one knew this indictment was in the works (and the arrest, by postal agents, makes the surprise more delicious). Which means the other times that Barr has hastily replaced a US Attorney with a flunky could represent similar cases into fraud well beyond the Russian-related crimes we know about. (Note, the Timothy Shea indicted along with Bannon is not the Barr flunky named Timothy Shea whom Barr installed in DC.)Indeed, Erik Prince was a key advisor to this organization; there’s good reason to suspect that an investigation into him got killed at the same time Barr intervened in the Flynn and Stone prosecutions.

Michael Cohen warned the entire Republican Party. If they didn’t stop hanging out with Trump, they would go to jail. …”

Freezing_in_Brazil August 20, 2020 12:06 PM


Even quantum physicists have a problem with quantum theory due in part to the way peoples brains process information. This is why some misunderstand or cannot adequately communicate their own theories. You have to understand that neurology and psychology and socioloogy play a role in this, or perception and culture and linguistics if you want to put things another way.

Good point, but I’ve always leaned towards the understanding that an “observation” – or measurement if you will – happens anytime two particles interact, since every interaction has the power to collapse the Wave Function [this is also the basis of – or at least implied in – the experiment that brought up this discussion, the Wigner’s Friend argument testing].

I personally have problems accepting consciousness (or sentience – human by definition) as the causation of reality, because it raises more problems than it solves. Also, it does not explain said two-particle interaction and neither the observation performed by simple-brained animals. A squid will recoil (like me) at some perturbation in the water caused by a shark. It seems to suggest that both of us can perform the same measurement, regardless of further psychological/neural considerations.

In fact, faced with the Bell’s Theorem I tend to seek solace in superdeterminism; the idea that all possible entanglements were already encoded at the Big Bang (another point of reconciliation between QM and GR).


Freezing_in_Brazil August 20, 2020 12:12 PM


I will ponder your method in madness more, but for now, I would have to question whether Alice and Bob can *actually* know that their clocks are still in sync.

Yes, fair enough. Still I think that for the sake of this thought experiment that wouldn’t have to be so tightly rigorous.


Freezing_in_Brazil August 20, 2020 12:22 PM


My mention of a squid as simple-brained (above) is something of a faux-pas, and not accurate in light of current science. In fact it could be regarded as an offense in this forum, maybe even resulting in my perpetual banning.I apologize!

Substitute it for a lowly crab. 😉

Freezing_in_Brazil August 20, 2020 1:03 PM


Re South Atlantic Oscillation

I was following along, right to the point where they wanted someone to send “huge magnets into space”. Riiight, they might as well have suggested that the weak spot was where virus was falling to earth…

Sorry. I didn’t vet the article thoroughly enough. I only meant to illustrate my POV. My bad.:)


Sherman Jay August 20, 2020 3:10 PM

from the “security is a fairytale” department:

anyone here use uber instead of cabs?
I just heard on the radio that uber officials have been indicted for paying $100k? to hackers that stole the personal data of MILLIONs of uber customers.

Freezing_in_Brazil August 20, 2020 6:08 PM


Your opinion is much appreciated, and I agree with some of it – especially on we basically have to accept quantum theory works even if we don’t know why nor necessarily understand it fully.

When I say “I have problems accepting…” it is, to a great extent, figuratively. I must accept the empirical evidence of QM for what it is (if empirical is a word that can be used with QM at all). It is clear at the moment that the field is open for debate, exactly as we’re doing here. Some prefer the Copenhagen interpretation; others go with Many Worlds, and still there’s room for relatively new insights like Superdeteminism and Qbism.

We all have our leanings and prejudices, and we try to adapt our views of nature to our preconceived notions. Therefore, as much as I revere Schopenhauer, my materialistic spirit cannot be satisfied with idealist conceptions of the world. That’s where my personal approach to notions as quantum indeterminacy, entanglement, etc., stem from. I’m still in search of hidden variables, and I will seize every opportunity to explore this possibility, until the final word is said. I think we have a long time to go.

*currently I’m exploring quantum computing, hence my interest. I have hopes to prove Bruce wrong about the expensiveness of quantum key distribution. I have many (wrong) things to say about it, and I hope we can engage in further discussions as the time goes by. By the way, Bruce can sleep tight for now, because I’m nowhere near of reaching my goal. 🙂

echo August 20, 2020 6:59 PM


I’m really confining myself to peoples cognitive processes having difficulty grasping their own subject. This is something which holds back increasing understanding both for experts and communicating expertise to each other and the general public.

I’m aware of the broad range of interpretations of theories. It’s not something I give much time to myself any more but I’m not stopping other people having fun discussing it. I’m pretty sure there are hidden variables and there is some scientific reasoning supporting this idea. I simply don’t know enough and lack the sometimes rarified skills to ask the questions let alone come up with any answers beyond blind luck and even then I doubt I’d understand it properly or know if I found anything worth developing. While I’m “done” with this subject, myself, anything new is of course interesting but on the whole the disciplines and creativity of it all have probably absorbed as much quantum stuff as they will take. I’ve reached my personal limits and know it. Now yes I do agree there is a theoretical possiblity Bruce is wrong about the expensiveness of quantum stuff for now the forseeable possibility of this being realised is like expecting a rock to fly.

About 99% of my time is absorbed with other things plus I have a lot of other interests and activities planned all of which take time and money and are a lot more achievable and satisfying for me personally. Yes, party tricks to others with resources and serious intent but it keeps me busy. The “duck and roll” brigade and “infosec professionals” get all the glory and attention but they’re welcome to it. I’m happy with my frivolous party tricks.

SpaceLifeForm August 21, 2020 4:14 AM

@ Sherman Jay


CloudFlare CSO. Former Uber CISO.

Singapore Noodles August 21, 2020 8:18 AM

@SpaceLifeForm @Clive Robinson @echo @Freezing_in_Brazil @Gertrude Stein @ all who may or may not be there if there might be a there there …

Re: quantum

With apologies to whomever for whom Yogi Barra is made a stand-in, in theory there is no difference between reality and theory, but in reality there is.

Jacob Klein Greek Mathematical Thought and the Origins of Algebra MIT Press originally published Berlin 1934 p. 4 “… it is impossible, and has always been impossible, to grasp the meaning of what we nowadays call physics independently of its mathematical form. Thence arise the insurmountable difficulties in which modern physical theories become entangled as soon as physicist or nonphysicists attempt to disregard the mathematical apparatus and to present the results of scientific research in popular form. The intimate connection of the formal mathematical language with the content of mathematical physics stems from the special kind of conceptualization which is a concomitant of modern science and which was of fundamental importance in its formation.”

The mathematical model has some utility in understanding the real world, but there is no argument that all its aspects are real. Even the mathematical physics of Galileo Newton et al. lead to paradoxes if taken too literally.

myliit August 21, 2020 11:16 AM

above (cont.)

“And now onto Cambridge Anlaytica [CA] the other non-GRU influence campaigns.

Let’s start with this hilarious description of an industry that exploits US social media companies. …

This whole description of the shell game behind making SCL American looks very different read the day after former CA VP Steve Bannon got arrested for money laundering via a shell entity.

But I’m sure this kind of corporate shell game is a new skill for Steve Bannon. [ sarcasm? ] …

PsyGroup pitched Rick Gates the day after Manafort formally became the Chair, and Gates asked about two topics that Manafort associate Roger Stone was working closely on. …

One really nifty thing abt Bannon’s continually evolving FBI testimony (which covered all these issues) is he had a near robotic explanation of what happened with social media and fundraising, but no recall of all the other players who pitched him along the way.


Clive Robinson August 21, 2020 3:14 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

CloudFlare CSO. Former Uber CISO.

That says a lot…

Based on the Uber dehaviour / deceit / criminality CloudFlare is not an organisation that anyone in their right mind should have any involvment with.

But then CloudFlare has a reputation for what is effectively dishonest behaviour (the equivalent of opening peoples letters and reading them then using that knowledge to make profit).

SpaceLifeForm August 22, 2020 11:11 PM

@ Myliit, Clive

I’ll just note that EW stupidly bought into CF about 2 years ago.

And I’ll note that anyone can report an email addy to CF, and then that person can be blocked by CF, Trying to comm to any website blog.

Because, if a website hoster, that uses email addys, once you get in bed with CF, you are f*cked.

Everything is MITM-ed, so they become the filter.

Marcy made a big mistake. I was not the only one blocked.

And I can tell you who blocked me. Because I was ‘Mr. Metadata’.

I’m sure you can connect some dots.

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