name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons July 3, 2020 9:52 PM

The United States Justice Department?
As the U.S. [In]Justice Department plans to bring Wikileaks publisher Julian Assange to the United States under extradition, though he is not a citizen sought for committing a crime on or off U.S. soil, four other people have been identified in a superseding indictment this week. Another element of the persecution is the parallel construction of Anonymous and hacktivism with a conspiracy cooked by the [In]Justice Department claim some association with Anonymous, LuluSec and other quote-unquote hacker groups.

This is a complete fabrication, and as this indictment stems from an illegal action–giving false witness and paid informants–the U.S. is making a deliberate and desperate stretch to make something stick to this group. Now Jacob Applebaum (wla-3), Jeremy Hammond (wla-1), Sarah Harrison (wla-4), and Daniel Domsheir (wla-2) find themselves in the sights of a clearly out of control prosecution as enumerated in the indictment. The story is covered by the reporting of Kevin Gosztola from Shadowproof media this week.

The ties with EARN-IT and Lawful Access to Encrypted Data act, and, the prosecutions of journalists is a concomitant set of actions toward a singular goal. Under state control this is a “closing of the loop’. Consider this as the overt suppression of dissent or expressions of criticism of the state in any manner or form.

zeroID July 4, 2020 1:23 AM

After the rape indictment scenario with the Swedish police was blown, the DoJ need new scenarios. This should be one of those, but I’m afraid that Julian isn’t interested anymore on the outcome…

lurker July 4, 2020 5:20 AM

Another day, another leak:

The usual slavering hordes are baying for blood, but regardless of whodunnit or why, there’s an extremely high probability one fact will be brushed aside as irrevelant. Regardless of what the minions of Redmond would like you to believe, an Excel spreadsheet is not, never was, never will be, a secure database…

Alejandro July 4, 2020 7:32 AM

“Unfortunately, a problem occurred during shipping and we had to cancel your delivery. The package is being returned, and we will issue a refund within 3 – 5 business days …” ~Amazon dot com

Several years ago I ordered a Dahua ip camera. Simply, it never arrived and I had to jump hoops to get a refund. This week I ordered a knock-off Dahua from Amazon which was supposed shipped on 7-3-20 according to email. Literally, few hours later I got the bizarre message above.

I wonder if it has to do with secret-ive govt. program on certain IoT products and manufacturers? More pointedly, is the govt. literally intercepting products in transit? Also, is that a message to Amazon for not playing ball?

True, the stuff of tin hat conspiracies, but this is twice now with a Dahua.

“Chinese surveillance giants blacklisted by Trump’s administration are set to appear at a major US security trade show”

Exclusive: Amazon turns to Chinese firm on U.S. blacklist to meet thermal camera needs

U.S. Blacklists 28 Chinese Entities Over Abuses in Xinjiang

(ps: none of my cams are allowed to connect to the WAN/internet whatsoever by router and firewall rules, the server is also LAN only. That’s all I care to share, which is actually too much anyway.)

Alejandro July 4, 2020 7:51 AM

Something to think about on Independence Day. The new anti-encryption law made it out of committee a few days ago:

The EARN It Act Harms Our Privacy and Security.

Note: My computer locked up on this link. Maybe it will work for you.

Also see:

The EARN IT Act Violates the Constitution

The New EARN IT Bill Still Threatens Encryption and Free Speech

“…the bill still encourages state lawmakers to look for loopholes to undermine end-to-end encryption, such as demanding that messages be scanned on a local device, before they get encrypted and sent along to their recipient.

I am becoming more convinced that so called local scanning of content to circumvent encryption was not the brain child of Facebook at all, but rather a govt. op.

And, likely is the future.

Alejandro July 4, 2020 11:54 AM

For the ‘something new every day’ file:

Message from the Public Library:
“Please stop microwaving your books to get rid of coronavirus”

“You see, every book at that library — and libraries around the country — has a metallic radio frequency identification (RFID) tag that can and will burn in a microwave. The tags can also catch on fire…”

People are returning scorched books. Hmmmm.

Rj July 5, 2020 9:03 AM

No one has so far disputed your main point that covid-19 could be an immunodeficiency disease. The dispute relates to the length of your post. Since you did indeed post your article on another sight in a pdf (I think it was a pdf), it would have been fine to make a short post here with a link to that article. I have already forwarded a link to that article to a friend of mine for his review, as I did find it interesting. I also found that format to be easier to navigate.

Unfortunately, your attitude and reaction to the complaints about your post have seriously degraded the credibility of everything you have said here. Too bad. 🙁

Tatütata July 5, 2020 5:19 PM

This was from back in 2016, I don’t know if it was ment to be funny at the time as it was posted on April 1st, but…

I thought that Encrochat’s service was only messaging only, not voice.

But seriously, a lowly SIP/VoIP server? How do they expect to remain accessible from all networks, especially mobile ones, when many providers still routinely block VoIP access through port blocking or deep packet inspection.

I notice that their Certifying Authority is in Panama.

The three IP addresses mentioned in the Medium article,,,, route respectively to Vancouver BC, Kuala Lumpur, and Britain, but none seem to be active at this time.

Anti July 5, 2020 10:20 PM

Dear Jon, you obviously don’t know the Lord Christ Jesus as you personal savior. We are all born into sin. The only way to redemption was the sacrifice of blood shed on the cross, asking him for forgiveness and acknowledging him and believing in his resurrection and in him as you savior. For there will be a day when you will be faced with a decision to accept the mandate of which you must do in order to financially buy and sell in your one world socialist government. If you accept you will never be redeemed and burn in the hell which you believe does not exist. Mark these words.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons July 5, 2020 10:49 PM

@ Anti
Having marked some words, “Going to have to go with ‘What is Trolling?’ for five hundred Alex.”

The basis for your assertion to Jon seems to be lacking much in the way of merit. Belief systems oft, but probably always, requires one to suspend reality and embrace a fantasy of some sort or another. I wonder how the “Jim Jones” cadre faired given their Christian predilictions?

Claiming that we are born of sin assumes that the act of birth, a priori during and after copulation, are the sin and it is the woman at the head. I reject your patriarchal “wishful thinking” and what it attempts to impose on others with very little in the way of proven, what could be called, philosophical relevance. For example, what becomes of original sin when a human is born from a test tube?

There are many that believe Buddha, Allah, or some other mono-theistic god head is at the center of the Universe. Yet, none of these belief systems has ready proof or substantial and undeniable evidence to support such beliefs. Again, a belief system requires suspending rational thought. How can so many of the over four thousand religions be incapable of substantial proof of their deity and origin stories.

SpaceLifeForm July 5, 2020 11:08 PM

If you don’t understand Brownian Motion today, you will in a week or so.


SpaceLifeForm July 6, 2020 2:03 AM

@ name...., Jon

I think it’s a bot which has failed the Turing Test.
Or maybe just like the person in the link below.
It’s difficult to decide, but I think bot.

Incidently, CloudFlare is having problems dealing
with the load on this (switching thru 9 pages).

This is a human bot that fails. It’s actually very indicative of what is happening to brainwashed people.

I had no idea that Target had such a selection of masks.

By now, I’m sure it is over a million views.


Anders July 6, 2020 3:17 AM

Since here is lately so few security news, i add this.

But this is not only a drone hacking framework. This can be used literally against ANYONE. It’s possible to fly behind his/her window, hack into the WIFI network and do your evil stuff – hack into the other networks, including govt, plant child porn, make a bomb threat, make an assassin threat on some high level individual (president etc).

Clive Robinson July 6, 2020 6:27 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm, ALL,

If you don’t understand Brownian Motion today, you will in a week or so.

Not just that but other laws of nature…

As I’ve said before on more than one occassion,

If the laws of nature alow it, then it will happen.

Because “Probability alows it to”, so “It’s not a matter of ‘IF’ but ‘WHEN'”.

Oh that Gardian piece is a terible read, I don’t know where they got their quotes from but one very important thing everyone should know,

As far as the physics are concerned, vapour, fog, mist, aerosolised particls, and dropplets and even rain etc are all the same,

    Collections of molecules that are in the liquid phase state that can have non liquid phase state molecules trapped within them, suspended in other molecules or mixture of molecules that are in the gas phase state and tgus subject to gas preasure, temprature, evaporation, and gravity.

That is aerosols and droplets are just different in physical size thus mass so,

    What laws of nature apply to droplets ALSO applies to aerosols.

Thus what makes the difference is how the environment affects the application of the laws of nature. With the environment ranging from things like holes in materials used in filters and masks all the way up to the dilutory effects of winds in open spaces, sunlight, temprature, surface absorbancy, etc.

All of these can be modeled and most reproduced in “physical science” laboratories.

For some reason unknown medical laboratories tend to assume differences, I’m guessing from available equipment limitations rather than any real physical difference. Thus people have to remember,

    Incorect assumptions kill.

Winter July 6, 2020 6:49 AM

“What laws of nature apply to droplets ALSO applies to aerosols.”

Yes, but what is a stake here is whether the infectiousness of an RNA virus inside a droplet depends on the size of the droplet. It is well known that SARS2 RNA has been found inside aerosols that could travel many meters. What is not know is whether these RNA containing particles are still able to infect humans.

For obvious reasons, this has not been studied in human subjects.

Swd Contra July 6, 2020 7:52 AM

@ name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons

Re: Dept. of “that word doesn’t mean what you think”

Just a point of correction, your characterization of the Christian doctrine of original sin is not accurate. Whether you accept the doctrine or not, for an argued, authoritative, and readable account, of this and many other topics, it would be hard to do better than Thomas Aquinas’s “Summa Contra Gentiles” [1], [2].


  2. Handy English translation

Rj July 6, 2020 8:35 AM

@name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons et al:

So I guess Euclidean geometry is a belief system then.

There are many empirical reasons for a person to “believe” in it:
1. It has a firm logical foundation.
2. It can be developed using the Aristotelean logical method.
3. It matches well with one’s own personal experience with the way the world seems to work (at least locally!).

What then do we say for Lobachevskian and Reimannian geometries?
Points 1 and 2 above still apply.
Point 3 seems weird, until you consider the limiting cases of only a small local region, where the geometry becomes “almost” Euclidean.

Which on is “right”?

It all depends on what you are looking for!

vas pup July 6, 2020 12:25 PM

Robotic scientists will ‘speed up discovery’

“”We’ve had a lot of interest [in the robot] from labs that are doing Covid research,” he told BBC News.

“Covid, climate change – there are lots of problems that really need international co-operation. So our vision is we might have robots like this all across the world connected by a centralized brain which can be anywhere. We haven’t done that yet – this is the first example – but that’s absolutely what we’d like to do.”

Two short and good videos inside. Enjoy!

vas pup July 6, 2020 12:47 PM

From programmer to gangster boss: The unbelievable story of Paul le Roux

See extract below related to blog’s subject and enjoy reading the whole article

“In 1984, only a short time after the end of white minority rule in modern-day Zimbabwe, le Roux and his adoptive parents moved to South Africa. The family settled in Krugersdorp, about 25 kilometers (15 miles) northwest of Johannesburg. There, the teenaged le Roux became an introverted outsider.

“He hated being in South Africa, he hated his peers,” explains Ratliff. It was during this time that le Roux turned to the world of computers and eventually dropped out of school so he could focus entirely on programming.

Le Roux spent the 1990s in London, Hong Kong and Amsterdam, where he made a name ===========>for himself as the developer of the open-source encryption software E4M. E4M is regarded as the basis of the encryption program Truecrypt. Whistleblower Edward Snowden claims that even the US secret service NSA has had problems with the software.

However, le Roux did not succeed in turning his groundbreaking developments into cash. Following a dispute with his former employer, he went underground in 2002.

when handing down le Roux’s sentence[25 years], the judge declared: “I have before me a man who has engaged in conduct in keeping with the villain in a James Bond movie.”

SpaceLifeForm July 7, 2020 4:20 AM

@ Clive. MarkH, Anders

As I concluded nearly a quarter of a nano-eon ago, there is no immunity.


“And immunity to this thing looks rather fragile — it looks like some people might have antibodies for a few months and then it might wane, so it’s not looking like a safe bet,” he said. “It’s a very deceitful virus and immunity to it is very confusing and rather short-lived.”

Jon July 7, 2020 5:06 AM


I owe you an apology. I thought you were name.withheld.

I was wrong.


Clive Robinson July 7, 2020 6:44 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

As I concluded nearly a quarter of a nano-eon ago, there is no immunity.

It’s something I’ve been concerned about since the stories of people getting quickly reinfected started in both China and South Korea.

It looks like this one is going to prove nasty, because if people do not retain immunity they will need constant shots of either a new vacine or synthesized immunity cells (assuming the transfution of imunoglobulins works, which is still under testing I believe).

The upside is it’s way way easier to change RNA vaccines to keep them effective than DNA vaccines.

Unless various people get together to stop it Big Phama will soon be more powerfull than Big Petro by a large margine.

Further those distopian movies where you have to pay hand over fist day after day for medical implants and the like will almost certainly come into play.

Thus you loose your job and you don’t get that new $3000 vaccine shot you need every six months… You are going to die early, very early maybe early fourties…

The amount of power that will give employers and managers will be worse than that they had under the National Socialism Work Camp system of the 1930’s. As for the disabled, infirm and sick, they will just be “road kill” on the way to more profits…

rrd July 7, 2020 8:58 AM

@ name.withheld… & Jon

Those who fail to understand Dunning & Kruger are doomed to unknowingly demonstrate it in Internet forums.

Clive is a domain expert, therefore he understands D&K, therefore he teaches with his silence.

Me, I’ve learned some things because I’ve been open to new ideas and I am a critical thinker who has sought for a long time to determine and live a perfect ethos.

That’s why my wife and I are still in love after all our years together.

That’s why my teenaged daughter respects me, for many reasons, but an important one being that I respect her and her mother and care deeply for their happiness; another important one is that I’ve taught her brother to treat her with respect.

My children do not fight or argue ever, they do not browse the Internet, they watch very little popular fiction for we have no TV and pay for no media channels.

We live in harmony because we are each careful of how we treat all other human beings. It is the reason we are so happy in these unsettled times.

There is the pinnacle of selfless, compassionate love for all human beings and then there are many lesser attitudes and behaviors, some downright evil.

One set of fiction we do have and our children may watch freely is the excellent set of Grenada Sherlock Holmes series(es) from the 80s and 90s, starring the incomparable Jeremy Brett. Adhering to Doyle’s original stories, they are very instructive in the specific kinds of evil portrayed (and shockingly modern and applicable in 2020).

This passage from “The Naval Treaty” is my favorite, where Holmes says (the show’s lines are slightly different (yet still great); these are from the book):

“What a lovely thing a rose is!”

He walked past the couch to the open window and held up the drooping
stalk of a moss-rose, looking down at the dainty blend of crimson and
green. It was a new phase of his character to me, for I had never
before seen him show any keen interest in natural objects.

“There is nothing in which deduction is so necessary as religion,” said
he, leaning with his back against the shutters. “It can be built up as
an exact science by the reasoner. Our highest assurance of the goodness
of Providence seems to me to rest in the flowers. All other things, our
powers, our desires, our food, are all really necessary for our
existence in the first instance. But this rose is an extra. Its smell
and its color are an embellishment of life, not a condition of it. It
is only goodness which gives extras, and so I say again that we have
much to hope from the flowers.”

You see, an open mind can even learn from fiction. It helps to have learned some deep wisdom first, however; its light showing the cracks and/or beauty of the art.

Sadly, closed minds not only refuse to learn but tend to fit themselves quite clearly into the overconfident-yet-underqualified bin of D&K’s landmark study.

Newton asked it differently, “Do you suffer from painful illumination?”

Most people reply like the knights in Monty Python’s “Holy Grail” when faced with that horrible, horrible bunny rabbit of “foreign” information: RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!

And so they run back to their society’s prejudices, the comfort of not risking rejection by their majority, the ease of willful ignorance where they already know everything and their attitudes and behaviors are beyond suspicion. That, however, is not the attitude of a scientist.

You question why we need a “personal relationship” with our Creator.

The answer is simple: because we must utilize our free will to create that connection, to humbly ask for help from our absolutely Unfathomable Creator to transmute our vices into their corresponding virtues. We come into this world as merely the most supremely talented mammals, with an as-yet-unfulfilled potential for that connection and its resulting guided moral self-evolution. Only by seeking, learning and then utilizing true wisdom can we begin the process of transforming our being towards enlightenment.

As all spiritual growth is a personal affair, our connection with our Creator is necessarily a personal affair, due to the simple fact that all our choices are always our personal responsibility alone. We cannot blame our societies or the books we read for our failure to learn how to be better and then manifest it. As proof, there are former KKK members that now include black folks as their most respected friends. That’s because we not only have the ability to choose new paths, but we have a mind capable of considering other points of view and critically comparing them against our own. As well, we have an adaptable moral compass, however ossified, damaged and out of use it may be.

It all starts with humbly seeking different points of view, humbly admitting when we “KnowNothing”. Only with the “true facts” (that’s from “The Second Stain”) can our deductions yield useful results.

Don’t believe for a second that the Trumpers and mask-refusers are the only people on Earth who manifest harmful willful ignorance. Willful ignorance comes in many flavors. I promise you I haven’t finished stomping all of my own out yet, either.

Finally, don’t let the person who attacks someone physically with a hammer lead you to question the motives and purpose behind hammers. Let it instead lead you to reflect on how human beings can twist anything into whatever they want, via their desires, prejudices and self-justifications. And then let that insight lead you to question your own “facts”, attitudes and behaviors.

D&K also demonstrated something deeper than most people appreciate: all the experts self-evolved themselves from newbie to expert by humbly seeking perfection in their application of their craft. It is shown by their later underestimating their expertise even when they have it in abundance. Those without humility not only never progress to become an expert, they are stuck at a sub-optimal level because of their lack of humility, yet their egos don’t give one whit and therefore their egos grow out of proper proportion to their capabilities.

Wisdom is an expertise that directly follows this template. That’s why there are so few with it.

MarkH July 7, 2020 10:50 AM

@SpaceLifeForm, Clive et alia, re. immunity to Covid-19 acquired via infection:

  1. Antibodies ≠ Immunity

Antibodies are one of several components of the human immune system. That they appear to be fading so quickly is alarming, but not conclusive.

Only what scientists call natural history studies — in this case, observation over time of persons who were previously infected — are likely to show the true persistence of any naturally acquired immunity.

  1. Vaccination ≠ Infection

If naturally acquired immunity is of short duration, that fact would not necessarily doom vaccine protection to be equally fleeting.

In principle, vaccines might be tailored to stimulate the immune system for more durable protection.

Luckily, the comparatively slow evolution of the virus (as observed so far) gives basis for hope that any eventual vaccines won’t be impaired by the “moving target problem” which limits flu vaccine effectiveness.

The ground truth of the matter is that 6 months into the scientific study of SARS-CoV-2, much about it remains unknown.

Maximum July 7, 2020 12:47 PM

Obviously there are:

52762 Characters (without Blanks)
and 12774 Lines

How Cool is that:)

Maximum II July 7, 2020 12:52 PM

Obviously there are:

12.774 Strings
52.762 Characters (without Spaces)
65.535 Characters (including Spaces)
and 12.774 Lines

How Cool is that:)

JonKnowsNothing July 7, 2020 1:35 PM


re: There is no such thing as a FREE COVID19 test…

Some interesting flares are starting to show as the neoliberal economists try to figure out how to impoverish more people.

In this case it’s considering COVID19 Testing provided by employers as a “taxable benefit”. When you get anything from an “employer” it is generally taxable in some form or if it falls into Retirement Accounting, taxation is deferred until you start withdrawing money.

At the moment, many countries are providing COVID19 treatment, testing and rehab without specific personal charges, although some eyebrow levitating bills/statements have been received. Governments, particularly those that adhere to Herd Immunity Policy (aka The Swedish Treatment) and neoliberal economics are already making appropriate AHEMs about the costs. New Zealand is handling their in-bound citizen quarantine costs but as countries look to expand and open their borders the costs of quarantine (@$2500-4000USD with all negative tests) are going to have to be paid for by “someone else”.

If you are going to be traveling for business or staycations and your employer pays for the cost of the quarantine, it might not qualify as a “business expense” but fall into “employee benefit” like a vacation or personal time off (PTO).

Being able to accurately account for this in either form is going to require some additional database processing for individuals and corporations. In the USA companies and providers supply a Tax Document 1099, that shows taxable and non-taxable earnings from different sources (1099r 1099int 1099misc etc.). Individuals may have to supply a 1099 to household help, caregivers, in home child care and anyone paid $600USD or more.

Part of the fight in the USA over the gig economy is who qualifies as employer vs employee vs independent contractors and who has to provide the 1099 details. If you are self-employed you have to track all your own income. If you are an employee the company gives you the required tax document. If you are a supplier you might get a 1099 from your customers. There’s a whole list of tit-for-tat on who has to keep track. It costs money, labor and material. The rules and thresholds change often and there are different forms needed depending on where you fall, employees get a W2, others get a 1099.

Given the chaos of world wide closures, re-openings, re-lockdowns, deaths, illness, long term health issues, government stipends of various sorts, support programs and services not only tracking these details but getting taxed for some of them before-or-after the fact may lead to more dismay, disillusionment and despair.

Not only will the taxes be on 1 COVID19 test but every test you have to have, normally 2 if you are negative. If you travel a lot and you get tested twice at each destination, you are going to rack up a large taxable event as some have been charged $3500USD for 1 test. If you work in health care or perhaps at the White House where you get tested several times a day that’s a lot of tax income.

Governments are already in the process of re-classifying items and they are going to need more computer resources to do it.

frontline workers to pay income tax on Covid-19 tests purchased by their employers

Guidance published by HMRC states: “Coronavirus testing kits or tests carried out by a third party which have been purchased by you to provide to your employees, are treated as a taxable benefit in kind on the employee.”

Benefits in kind are those which workers receive from employers which are not included in their salary, such as cars. Employees have to pay income tax on these benefits; the tax is calculated based on the benefits’ value, then deducted from wages through PAYE.

ht tps://
(url fractured to prevent autorun)

FA July 7, 2020 2:25 PM


65.535 Characters (including Spaces)

which is of course 0xFFFF or 2^16-1

So it seems the comment entry form is limited to this size, a wise precaution.

Weather July 7, 2020 2:52 PM

@Maxium two
You’ve got a off by one bug, a format string bug and a divide by zero bug,
You arnt a security coder ,but you got to start some were 🙂

Weather July 7, 2020 3:19 PM

A divide by zero bug is like
Unsigned into one =1000,two =2000
Printf %d one
It will show zero because the Seh handled the thing.
Seh has two weakness, one call [eax] which gets its value from 0x7ff0040 kernel32.DLL which is rw , the second is call [ECX] which goes down the stack check return pointers, when you use call or a function in c it does push ebp ,moved esp,ebp. That later gets pop ebp ret,
If you modifier a ret and later continued the program as usual and crash later with div 54 0, you will can control.

Not sure about the new thing Intel is adding to there processor to stop rops but at least its moving forward.

lurker July 7, 2020 4:30 PM

@Jon…, All, re “free” Covid tests
Well, somebody has to pay eventually. Some governments believe testing is a public health good, and pay for it from taxation. This also allows them to believe the testing is auditable and reliable; when an individual can pay for a test, can they also pay for a result of their choosing?

Clive Robinson July 7, 2020 4:42 PM

@ MarkH, SpaceLifeForm, ALL,

1. Antibodies ≠ Immunity

It depends on what phase of an infection or immunobuilding process you are in. In essence both the IgM and later IgI antibodies are “sterilizing” that is running around mopping up any last viral reminents and preventing any short term reinfection. Long term immunity is derived via IgA and T-Cells.

However the length od that sterilizing stage is an indicator of other longer term effects. Only some of which are known currently.

2. Vaccination ≠ Infection

The problem with vaccines is not making them but the cost of what to make. Corona viruses are RNA based and for various reasons evolve very slowly (over simplisticaly RNA is closer to the error correction mechanism than DNA and does not alow certain defects to occure). So whilst other viruses might mutate every year many times (eg swine flu), it could take a corona virus half a century or more to mutate to that level of change. It’s why we know that SARS-Cov-2 although from bats has been hanging around in another mamalian reservoir for a decade or more and not of necessity near the native haunt of the horseshoe bats in China (and might explain Barcelona).

But even so we may have to go through many vaccines of gradualy increasing efficacy each one requiring costly testing under current testing protocols.

As you can appreciate “where there is cost there has to be compensation” and that almost invariably involves a profit. You can be sure that certain people in Big Phama are salivating at the thought of how to exploit this hence the more than 200 teams world wide looking for a “money shot” and “stock options etc”.

Which also explains why the South Korean Government has done what they have done with regards a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine which is not just pool knowledge, but in effect open source it and underwrite the costs.

@ ALL,

If you think that people would not try to deliberatly profit out of human missery, think again. Psychopaths / Sociopaths have no empathy and as with Narcissists they care only for their own desires. Further repeated investigations have shown that those who run companies tend to have significant indicators for both Narcissistic and Psychopathic personality disorders and lack empathy, however those who rise to the higher ranks, tend to have learnt early how to suppress the more visable effects of what might be called vindictiveness / spite that generally acts as the self destructive downfall for other psychopaths. In effect these people are the “Hawks” and the rest of us the “Doves” in the makup of society.

Clive Robinson July 7, 2020 5:18 PM

@ Weather,

Please do not take this as an attack but as a hopefully helpful constructive critisism and suggestion of a remedy.

You tend to do two things,

1, Type from a concious train of thought you’ve had for a while.

2, You tend to be too brief in what you type.

Not everybody has the same or even close thought streams that you have, thus when they see one of your brief comments they have neither background or introduction to help them get not just onto the same “wavelength” as you but also “upto speed” with you.

Whilst some will take the time to get to grips with your brief comments many won’t, even though what you are saying might be highly relevant to them.

Try first writing a sentence as introduction and a second sentence to paraphrase what it is you are going to detail along with a a sentence or two that acts as a high level conclusion of the effects/risks.

As I’ve said please do not take this as being a personal attack it’s not, I’ve suffered from the same problem myself in the past all to frequently, and the fact that my message was not getting through ment needless harms happened. However, for years after I “over compensated” and became to verbose, which made other people think I was trying to be superior or in some way thought less of them and their competences. This is especially true of management who tend to “care not a jot” about the “how of problems” only if there needs to be “solutions” and “what the solutions”[1] are. Hence the suggestion of what to preface the “how of the problem” with, they get a “heads up” quickly without having to read the rest that somebody involved with the solution phase would need.

[1] Hence the cry of,

    Do not bring me problems, bring me solutions.

Which gave rise to the –now seen as harmful– “Make it So” culture that arose from StarTrek Next Generation (yes managment consultants steal, to make profit at others expence[2]).

[2] The same is true but more obvious of “self help gurus” who come up with some silly phrase then write a book about it to try and make it look like it’s nonsense has “a deeper meaning to success”… They then try and lead a jetset / Rockstar lifestyle running seminars in all the nice places they’ve wanted to vist…

JonKnowsNothing July 7, 2020 5:26 PM

@Clive, MarkH, SpaceLifeForm, ALL,

COVID19 has already has several strains. There is the initial strain from China which migrated to Australia and New Zealand. There is a different version that traveled to Europe and then to the USA. The virus acquires genetic material as it infects a new host providing a “family tree” traceable heritage.

In the outbreak of COVID19 Mink to Human in Europe, COVID19 had the local national lineage of Belgium and the Netherlands, indicating the cross over to Mink and back to Humans took place in those countries. (1)(3)

Some of the contact tracing in Melbourne, AU and the many clusters found showed family cross infections. Reports indicated that they could identify (mostly, sometimes, partially or not at all), local-case 0 because that genetic sequence was found in other members of the cluster.

So far, such changes have not altered the main infections part of COVID19, there is still only one but with differing history chains.

The new bad-virus on the horizon is a variant of H1N1 in Pigs-Humans.(2) This variant is called G4 EA H1N1 or G4. It is currently “contained” in China.

human influenza vaccine strains do not provide immunity against G4 viruses

G4 H1N1 swapped 2 parts of their structure, with the G4 variation being much more virulent and now dominant version.

When multiple strains of influenza viruses infect the same pig, they can easily swap genes, a process known as “reassortment.” The new study, published today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, focuses on an influenza virus dubbed G4. The virus is a unique blend of three lineages: one similar to strains found in European and Asian birds, the H1N1 strain that caused the 2009 pandemic, and a North American H1N1 that has genes from avian, human, and pig influenza viruses.

Ferrets (related to mink and weasels) are used often in Labs because they get similar respiratory illness responses as humans.

G4s have become adept at infecting and copying themselves in human airway epithelial cells. The viruses also readily infected and transmitted between ferrets.

H1N1 has a reverse mortality index than COVID19.

The 2009 outbreak of a new strain of swine flu killed between 157,000 and 575,000 people worldwide … Eighty per cent of the fatalities were estimated to have occurred in people younger than 65 years of age.

1. The COVID19 chain was Human-Cat-Mink-Mink-Human
2. The H1N1 G4 chain is Pig-Pig-Human
3. 600,000 minks destroyed and 200+ farms to be permanently closed in the Netherlands. Denmark, China, USA and other mink producing countries are monitoring the situation.

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JonKnowsNothing July 7, 2020 5:59 PM

@Clive @All

re: COVID19 Surging in California, Arizona, Texas, Florida and other locations.

Things are getting rather grim in some places and the results of the Mask-Wars are about to land in the mortuaries.

A very good MSM article on TRIAGE rules in place might give some pause to think about what actually is going on during the overload. Pretty much most hospitals world wide will have similar rules in place which are not easy to find because they would scare anyone with sense. The article is about triage in Arizona.

There are also 2 pdfs from Los Angles California giving some interesting insights. One is a slide deck with their C19 modeling on 06 29 2020 of the oncoming juggernaut of cases, and the other is the order to start implementing triage when systems are overloaded.

Here is a synopsis of the Triage Rules for AZ

Triage is called Crisis Standards of Care (CSC). It is based on a SOFA Score.

SOFA (Sequential Organ Failure Assessment) is a scoring method for 6 major organ systems:
   lungs, circulatory, heart, kidney, liver and neurological

Here is the Arizona Scoring Method:

  1. They score points for each of the 6 systems. 4 points is worst case number.
  2. They add 4 points for subjective assessment of survivability
  3. They add 2 points if the expected mortality death is within 5 years (even if they can survive COVID19)
  4. They add 4 points for anyone with life expectancy is 1 year or less (even if they can survive COVID19)
  5. They add up the numbers and the winner (who gets treatment) is LOW SCORE
    Scoring is supposed to be neutral of all bias except a large part of the population has medical issues
    because of existing economic and racial bias
  6. SOFA Scores are poor predictors for COVID19
    SOFA Scores are not suitable for restricting care for acute respiratory failure.

Zho… Here’s what the tally sheet might look like / scores 0-4 / 4 being the worst case

Lungs           4
Circulatory     4
Heart           4
Kidney          4
Liver           4
Neurological        4
SOFA 6 Subtotal         24

Survivability 4 5yr Expect Death (2) 2 1yr Expected Death 4 CSC Triage Score 34

The Expected Death value likely comes from mortality actuarial tables called Life Tables. Your personal Life Tables are based on the year you were born and would vary by country. The USA Social Security posts these tables and has them for years 2017 – 2004.

A sample from the 2017 list of additional years of life expectancy:
   eg if you are USA M 68 your future expected life time is 15.77 years.

Current        Expected
    Men         Women
Age 0   75.97       80.96
Age 55  25.50       28.81
Age 68  15.77       18.07
Age 87  5.08            6.01 
Age 89  4.37            5.16
Age 96  2.64        3.09
Age 98  2.36        2.73

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   Michael Hiltzik LA Times June 30 2020

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   note: this is a PDF 06 29 2020

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   note: this is a PDF 07 04 2020

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SpaceLifeForm July 7, 2020 7:11 PM


“Those who fail to understand Dunning & Kruger are doomed to unknowingly demonstrate it in Internet forums.”

The Poster Child for Dunning-Kruger can sometimes be located at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Clice Robinson July 7, 2020 7:28 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing,

The new bad-virus on the horizon is a variant of H1N1 in Pigs-Humans.(2) This variant is called G4 EA H1N1 or G4. It is currently “contained” in China.

I’ve mentioned this a few times with respect to stocking your freezer with “protien” especially Pork whilst it is still cheap. Pork is the major protien source in many nations especialy in East and South Asia and the West. Major production of Swine and Fowl flesh is in the likes of China, and this is now the third season where production is down.

To things to note,

1, The swine virus is not “contained” in China it’s poped up in Eastern Europe (Poland etc).

2, There are signs that a new avian virus infecting meat fowl is occuring.

Thus something like 2/5ths to 7/15ths of the worlds population will be going into animal protien deficiency.

The solution to this would normally be to increase the less usefull “plant protien” as a replacment. But as you might have heard there has been a significant losses due to a mixture of flooding and locust swarms…

So the actual basic supply side is having major issues (over fishing etc here we come).

But the supply side is a longish process and SARS-CoV-2 is “highly opportunistic” and it’s close relatives are known to remain viable even after freezing, so it’s best to assume SARS-CoV-2 is likewise. As I’ve mentioned before the supply process is just a SARS-CoV-2 disaster waiting to happen at many levels, and importing frozen meat from abroad is going to be an “open borders invitation” to SARS-CoV-2 and it will take it. Then the further processing in “meat packing plants” and “butchers” will inject it directly into the community.

But you might have heard meat is going into “funeral pyres” and “land fill” by the thoudands… The reason is that with meat packing plants closed the animals have no profit in them and even with their existing sunk costs culling to waste is less costly than keeping them alive. But this has knockon effects it takes 18-36 months for a generation of livestock to make it to the abattoir thus move on to meat packing and shop shelves. With no incentive to breed stock currently we will soon have insufficient live stock to come back quickly, and if it goes on just a little longer there will be a knock back into land managment, not just for the livestock to “roam” but also in the animal feed supply, which will cause grain mills etc to close and they are probably not economic to “mothball” even for a very short period of time. Thus capacity will be lost which will further slow down or actually halt the recovery of livestock for meat consumption. This will have similar effects in the dairy industry thus removing chease as a source not just of fat and protien but a more efficient way to store it.

Then there is the oil industry, not many people realise just how much oil the production of essential fats and protiens take. As we know the oil industry is going through it’s own issues at the moment…

So my advice is still for people to “Stock up whilst protien and fat is still low cost and apparently plentiful”. Likewise if you have the space then “Dig to plant for survival” other food stuffs are also dependent on oil etc thus are going to get expensive.

Spending wisely on food now could quite conservatively show the equivalent of a 15-25% yield over the next year or two –some think food prices will tripple or more– which is most certainly not going to be met by wage rises or even employment for a decade or three if those that pay politicians can stop it. If you look at shop shelves you will find that “canned meat” has already had more than a 25% increase in price, plus the quality has significantly dropped in that more “scrap meat” such as large blood vessels and joint jelly etc –that would have gone to livestock feed– is in the can as well as fat… Likewise there are less “drained weight” vegtables and fruit in cans…

Clive Robinson July 7, 2020 7:44 PM

@ ALL,

As hospital triage has been mentioned, there is something else you need to remember.

    Triage can be ongoing.

That is, if you get treatment because you pass entry triage that does not mean you will not get “triaged to death” later on.

I can understand if you do not want to think about this or read on about the reality of this which has already happened and is almost certainly being practiced where healthcare resources are getting stretched.

In Spain it is known from distraught and traumatized healthcare staff that patients on not just ventilators but even assisted oxygen who had a good chance of survival got taken off and subsequently died all because a younger person or one with less co-morbidities or estimated to need less time on them came along. If they were concious they were given not just “end of life coctails” but were put into drug induced comas which effectively alowed them to be druged to death.

I suspect that this “peacefull death policy” will be practiced in all places where healthcare becomes saturated or even the likes of oxygen or even prophylactic antibiotics become scarce.

rrd July 7, 2020 7:48 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm

The Poster Child for Dunning-Kruger can sometimes be located at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

@Clive nailed it with his paragraph on “Psychopaths / Sociopaths”, and Mary Trump, clinical psychologist, is about to detail his training. I believe Hitler said something like, “Give me the children until they’re five years old…” or somesuch.

Related original thought: For multi-generational families of wealth that wish to compete against others from their station, ruthlessness for greed is a required competitive advantage, i.e. generosity or adherence to the law are a distict disadvantage.

DJT is a perfect American storm of negative influences, from his KKK slumlord father to one of the most evil Americans to ever live: mob lawyer Roy Cohn. No hyperbole there, either.

His true believers sure do give him a run for his money on the D-K scale, though. They have truly abandoned all rationality, if indeed they ever had it.

I seriously wonder if we don’t have widespread heavy metal poisoning here in America. His followers don’t seem like they’d spend their money on water when the tap’s right there. And I’m leary of trusting our governments to either test or not fudge the results.

The free water testing kits available at Home Depot explicitly preclude renters from submitting them. Curious, that.

Clive Robinson July 7, 2020 7:56 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

You forgot numbers 10 and 11 Downing st as well.

Though the occupant of No 10 is lacking in the brains department, in effect his higher functions lead an independent existence, known as “The Cummings” etc. Which even though a Judge has barred it from office, it addvises, but has been caught breaking “social distancing” and other preventative measures. Because it is obviously “exceptional” in it’s own thought parameters, which is kind of the very essence of what Dunning-Kruger were pointing out…

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons July 7, 2020 9:29 PM

@ All, and especially Bruce
Apologies for the tangential sawtooth wavelet that brought a disturbance to the force. Felt like Stanley Millgram experiment, the knob was there…

JonKnowsNothing July 7, 2020 9:54 PM

@Clive @All

re: Food shortages and animal culls

There are 3 types of “swine flu” on the loose. Some have been around for centuries. The 3 swine diseases often get mixed up so here is a short description of each of them. It may be academic because they all can cause massive swine deaths from disease or cull so the pig is dead.

The ones that are zoonotic and transfer to humans can be just as bad for humans.

Dramatis Personae:

  1. African swine fever virus (ASFV) (not influenza)
    African swine fever virus (ASFV) is a large, double-stranded DNA virus in the Asfarviridae family.
    It causes hemorrhagic fever and death in pigs. It is highly contagious to pigs.
    It does not cause disease in humans.
  2. Classical swine fever (CSF) or hog cholera (not influenza)
    Classical swine fever (CSF) or hog cholera is a highly contagious disease of swine (Old World and New World pigs). It is mentioned as a potential bioweapon.
    The infectious agent responsible is a virus CSFV (previously called hog cholera virus) of the genus Pestivirus in the family Flaviviridae.
    Swine fever causes fever, skin lesions, convulsions, Splenic Infarctions and usually (particularly in young animals) death within 15 days. Eradicating CSF is problematic. Current programmes revolve around rapid detection, diagnosis, and slaughter.
    Severe cases are indistinguishable from those of African swine fever (ASFV).
    It does not cause disease in humans.
  3. Swine flu virus (SIV) (yes influenza)
    Swine influenza virus (SIV) or swine-origin influenza virus (S-OIV) is any strain of the influenza family of viruses that is endemic in pigs. SIV strains include influenza C and the subtypes of influenza A known as H1N1, H1N2, H2N1, H3N1, H3N2, and H2N3.
    G4 EA H1N1, also known as the G4 swine flu virus (G4) is a swine influenza virus strain discovered in China. The virus is a variant genotype 4 (G4) Eurasian avian-like (EA) H1N1 virus that mainly affects pigs, but there is some evidence of it infecting humans.
    The virus is related to the H1N1/09 strain responsible for the 2009 swine flu pandemic, and also distantly to the strain which caused the 1918 flu pandemic (both are H1N1 flu strains).
    It is endemic and contagious to pigs and may infect humans.

Current World Status

  • African swine fever virus (ASFV) has major outbreaks world wide.
  • There have been outbreaks of Classical swine fever (CSF) or hog cholera.
    While there is a vaccine for CSF, there are side effects that limit its use.
  • Swine influenza virus (SIV) H1N1 G4 is on the rise.

That’s a lot little piggies not going to market.

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*please note my handle / I am not the other poster.

SpaceLifeForm July 8, 2020 1:57 AM

Hmmm. Was German seizure of BlueLeaks server related to what fell out of Operation Venetic?

Six men have been arrested in the Netherlands following the discovery of seven shipping containers converted into cells and torture chambers.


Officers found handcuffs attached to the floors and ceilings of the structures, which had also been soundproofed.

In one container, they also discovered police clothing and bulletproof vests. In another, they located pruning shears, scalpels and balaclavas.

Weather July 8, 2020 2:15 AM

That is sick, don’t post that shit.
Second half, technical detail? You still have to following the law.

I’ve done something in the past that could be called that offences,
But you judge for yorself

Clive Robinson July 8, 2020 3:10 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm, Bruce, ALL,

You forgot to mention the all important part of the report that indicate it’s “very useful” in the current battle of the Crypto Wars in the US.

From the BBC Report,

    “The containers were located in Wouwse Plantage, south of Rotterdam, after French police cracked encrypted phones used by criminals.”


    “The suspects were arrested on 22 June following a Franco-Dutch operation to infiltrate the EncroChat encrypted phone system.”

Thus more “EncroChat” fallout.

Have you noticed how these news reports are happening just whean EARN-IT and LAED are going through the US legislature process on “greesed goose” process?

Also that they are “fear crimes” of a “think of the children” magnitude?

They will be greasing the wheel of “political persuasion” and beating down opposition. Thus is being “very useful” in the current battle of the Crypto Wars.

Thus I’m suscpicious of the timing of these releases to put it mildly.

Clive Robinson July 8, 2020 6:30 AM

@ ALL,

For those thinking seriously about managing compexity in security by segregation / seperation techniques you need an understanding of various graph theories.

To get you into the idea nearly all logical structures can be usefully encapsulated as nodes (vertices) on a graph with directional lines (edges) indicating Shannon Communications channels[1] and their main / assumed information flow (from source to sink).

This is kind of like a “flow chart” –most people studying software or engineering etc get taught, early on– and it enables you “to see” the complexity and more importantly how it clusters. Thus it aids you in finding where you need to put your segregation points and “mandated and instrumented choke point communications” that can be where to place Secure Data Diodes, as well as also reduce the number of states in state machines etc.

In effect you build “black box” charts where you do not need to know how a node does what it does but is fully characterized by it’s input and current state (ie state machines).

However most humans have trouble with more than around ten nodes on a graph especially with complex information flows (see the state diagram of a Turing Engine to see this).

Well there are algorithms that alow you to reduce clusters of nodes into supernodes and likewise reduce the communications paths to see the danger points.

This article is a nice quick intro to get you thinking and seeing the possabilities via “Kosaraju’s algorithm[2]”,

As well as give you a pointer –Tarjan’s Algorithm[3]– and thus into further thinking.

[1] As you do more indepth analysis you will find that all Shannon channels become nodes in their own right. But importantly for security the directed paths become bidirectional thus unless specific precautions taken get split into two paths in opposit directions thus the Shannon Channel becomes a node with two inputs and two outputs connecting the original source and sink nodes.



myliit July 8, 2020 10:16 AM

Clive Robinson, MarkH, SpaceLifeForm, etc., on solitude, Karens, or Kevins

@Clive wrote ( ):

“… Some people can not stand solitude I guess because they have to live in others heads like moths to a flame. I am quite content with solitude as long as I have things to keep me busy in my own head, and luckily I’ve a sufficiently varied past that I have the skills to do the “good life” thing and live quite comfortably off of an appropriate plot of land and enjoy it. Sadly as the old saying has it “Whilst the spirit is willing the flesh is weak”.

I can also quite happily do without many of the foibles of modern “sharing culture” we call social media/networking. I’ve never found the sort of mindless sharing we see to be either wise or cathartic. Such sharing either has to be totaly vacuous of personal meaning or it almost certainly will come back and haunt people in the future if they start to become successful. The problem with success often is that it is little diferent from fame in some peoples minds and that creates jealousy all be it the low level of the “Karens phenomenon” of passive agressive red flagging co workers through to out and out doxing and pathalogical stalking be it cyber or physical. …”

@SLF’s Karen link(s) were strange to page through, but I have a different concern. Karen/Kevin links can be habit forming, based on my experience of visiting a half dozen KK websites, to look at.

While our President continues to throw turds against the wall to distract us from his, imo, lies and failures, we may want to focus on what shiny objects are worth time or bandwidth on this blog.

OT Chicago Police and the torture of suspects, etc., in the USA, From the New York Review of Books:


“… The corruption and incompetence that Gessen condemns in this urgent book have killed tens of thousands of Americans, many of whom may have felt themselves immune to the violent chaos that Trumpian politics has unleashed since 2016.

Gessen’s credentials as an observer of autocracy are impeccable. Aged fifty-three, they (Gessen identifies as nonbinary) spent their childhood in the Soviet Union and the US, then moved back to Russia in 1991 to work as a reporter. In 2012 they were fired as the editor of a popular science magazine for refusing to send a journalist to cover one of Vladimir Putin’s more ludicrous publicity stunts, flying a wobbly motorized hang glider to “lead” a flight of Siberian cranes on their westward migration. One of the few out gay people in Russian public life, they became a target for homophobic politicians. In 2013 they left Russia after the passage of legislation against “homosexual propaganda” opened the possibility that the state would take away their children.

Surviving Autocracy contains much that will be familiar to anyone who has followed the news over the last few years, but there is something about seeing all this in the aggregate that sharpens an edge of disgust lately blunted by relentless use. The book is a snapshot of how far American public life has been degraded, how the vaunted democratic system of checks and balances has collapsed, and how the conventions of journalism and policy debate have hampered the task of holding power to account. To frame their analysis, Gessen uses a schema credited to the Hungarian sociologist (and former minister of education) Bálint Magyar, coiner of the term “mafia state,” described by Gessen as “a specific, clan-like system in which one man distributes money and power to all other members.”

The Trumps are nothing if not clannish. It’s now apparently unremarkable that in the Trump White House, the president’s demands for personal loyalty should supersede outmoded notions of service or patriotism. His family identifies its own interests with the national interest, and appears to see the presidency as a monetizable asset, or at least as a kind of force multiplier, a way to extract maximum profit from its existing portfolio. Judging by figures produced in a report about the security costs of their travel, the president’s adult children appear to be busy people, flying …”

myliit July 8, 2020 10:24 AM

ps. From Riana Pfefferkornon Earn It Act (all caps headline in footnote):’t-fix-it

“ [1] On July 2, the Senate Judiciary Committee held a full-committee hearing at which it made significant changes to the pending EARN IT Act bill, S.3398, about which I’ve written extensively on the CIS blog. While many Americans (myself included) were out on vacation for the Independence Day holiday, Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who chairs the SJC, introduced a so-called “manager’s amendment” that largely overhauls the version Graham introduced in March. The Committee approved the manager’s amendment unanimously, and also approved an amendment by Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT) that modifies the manager’s amendment to provide some protections for encryption. The bill can now proceed to consideration by the full Senate. You can watch video of the hearing and read all the amendments here.

EARN IT is among a bumper crop of bills introduced in this Congress that would amend Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996, which largely immunizes the providers of online services (think: email, social media, websites, apps including messaging apps, you name it) from liability for the actions of their users on their services. That immunity, as relevant here, bars most civil lawsuits as well as prosecutions under state criminal law; it does not bar enforcement of federal criminal law. (Techdirt has a terrific Section 230 explainer for the uninitiated.)

The current rash of bills varies in how they would affect providers’ Section 230 immunity. EARN IT specifically targets providers’ immunity (against state criminal charges and civil lawsuits, that is) for a particular class of user content: child sexual abuse material (CSAM). In January, when analyzing an early version of this bill, I wrote a lengthy post about providers’ existing duties under federal statutes to report such material when they find it on their service.[1]

The July 2 manager’s and Leahy amendments attempt to respond to some of the concerns that I and others have raised about EARN IT. But they perpetuate the basic underlying problem: if passed, even in this amended form, the bill would still pose a serious threat to our freedoms online, especially freedom of speech. That threat is inherent to this legislation; no amount of amendments can fix it. And here’s the kicker: it still won’t guarantee children’s safety online.

What’s Changed in the Bill? …”


rrd July 8, 2020 11:57 AM

@ Clive

re: Graph representations of system data flow

However most humans have trouble with more than around ten nodes on a graph especially with complex information flows (see the state diagram of a Turing Engine to see this).

It then proceeds to get much worse very quickly when the nodes themselves encapsulate entire sub-graphs full of internal connections, as our modern machines do, deeply.

All the more reason a great engineer always treasures simplicity.

Personally, I don’t usually find data flow graphs useful because, for all but the most simple cases, they end up looping around in such a way that the overall flow structure is obscurred (if such a perspective can even be found in the mess). That’s why I contend that (per the English language’s intrinsic flow) the only useful flow charts have a baseline left->right top->bottom structure that is then augmented with loopbacks or skipaheads, not that I visually design that way in my work these days nor preclude myself from needing to in the future. (This is likely one result of my training in SE instead of EE; i.e. no formal introduction to block diagramming.)

I’m also quite sure that there are many flows where distilling it down to such a baseline ordered graph is nigh-on imposssible, but (spitballing here) maybe multiple ordered graphs of the same system from different perspectives would be useful. (I remember studying the Windows Driver Model and seeing the plate-of-spaghetti flow for a driver’s potential state changes — eeek!)

My entire perspective comes from my being excited about UML diagrams for about four minutes, after years of designing larger and more complex software systems that inhabited and crossed various domains. I do think the UML sequence diagram is good though (not that I’ve ever used or made one), probably because of my bias towards some kind of baseline directionality in the diagrams I consider useful.

This is really the essential difficulty of info systems design: what appears to be a sensible info presentation to one person (especially someone intimately acquainted with the underlying technologies) can be utterly incomprehensible to someone else, even when both are system designers.

@ myliit

Some people can not stand solitude I guess because they have to live in others heads like moths to a flame.

I don’t precisely know what they’re saying here but I think most people define their self-worth relative to their peers’ approval. Thus they tend to focus on how they look and behave with respect to their peers’ cultural standards as opposed to a more free-minded consideration of what could or should be.

When one is focused on bringing something new into the world, the trappings of a social life and meeting their arbitrary standards become less important as we drift away from our adolescent needs for social approval (and their predilection to denigrate out-groups) for those of us that have some extroversion. At least that’s how I describe my journey to absolutely loving the fact that people aren’t so busy in this world (beyond the fact that our air is now significantly cleaner and the traffic less noisy), and that this is where I’d be anyway.

I’m absolutely chuffed that people have to have the opportunity to sit and think about why they were really all rushing about, leaving our precious environment in their deadly wake. Of course, most people in this lockdownish situation are just sitting at home worshipping their unidirectional infomation rectangle (receive-only) by just binge-watching the same tired, vapid fiction they only ever did. (I have despised cop shows for 30 years now as foul symptoms of a sick society.)

Introspection is the polar opposite of social approval seeking, seems to me. That said, having great conversations with interesting people is very fulfilling. Finding them here in this part of America, another matter completely.

Ultimately, a people’s desire to change the status quo is inversely proportional to their satisfaction with it, their satisfaction usually solely gauged upon the personal benefits they receive.

myliit July 8, 2020 12:18 PM

re: U. S. voters and Earn It Act.

Here’s a clickable link for how you, or other U. S. voters, can reach your, or their, U. S. senator or congressman, or congresswoman, and tell them they should vote no on it. Please spread the word or “thank you in advance.”[1]

More Background: 2 July 2020 30 June 2020

or search: ACLU and earn it act …

[1] iirc, ending an email tyia is supposed to increase the likelihood of an email response, or something like that

Freezing_in_Brazil July 8, 2020 1:52 PM


Those without humility not only never progress to become an expert, they are stuck at a sub-optimal level because of their lack of humility

You’re obviously speaking of the Expert Beginner. 🙂

The Expert Beginner has nowhere to go because progression requires an understanding that he has a lot of work to do, and that is not a readily available conclusion.


rrd July 8, 2020 3:22 PM

@ Freezing_in_Brazil

As the political commenter Machiavelli stated (my paraphrase):

The archer must aim above the bullseye to hit it.

Most people are simply not interested in achieving mastery of their craft, they merely desire to have the level of competance necessary to allow them a satisfying lifestyle, i.e. money. I’m guessing that salary and open positions are the sole reasons why most people major in SE in the first place.

Then they find out it’s the most difficult job on Earth (especially when having to estimate out-of-ones-ass when it will be delivered) and they nope out on upping their skills and focus instead of getting promoted into management, whose only prerequisites seem to be knowing what an SDLC is and a willingness to prioritize money over human beings’ happiness.

My one great manager’s most important skill was that he knew what he didn’t know — cough humility cough — so he listened to us and let us get on with it.

He had been a VP at BoA but wanted to spend more time with his family so he downshifted to a smaller role in the middle-sized company where I ended up. He wrote in my first performance review that I had submitted the best self-evaluation he had ever read, which was solely because I admitted that my ability to multitask and estimate my projects’ completion dates needed to improve.

Such honesty and humility don’t really serve the American worker well; it only worked in my case because I had an actual human being for a manager, of which I have had the one and only one. The rest were a bunch of callous, ignorant bad-words, which is precisely why they were hired for the job.

JonKnowsNothing July 8, 2020 3:29 PM


re: Experts, Beginners, Learning, Ignorance and Wisdom

An old Buddhist parable

The Buddha compared people to four kinds of clay vessels.

  • One type of vessel has holes in the bottom. We can pour in as much water as we like and it runs right out. When this type of person hears the Dharma, it goes in one ear and out the other.
  • The second type of vessel has cracks. Though we pour in the Dharma, it seeps out slowly until the vessel is empty again.
  • The third vessel is full to the brim with stale water–views and opinions. One can’t pour anything new in, everything is already known.
  • The only useful vessel is the fourth, without holes or cracks and totally empty.

JonKnowsNothing July 8, 2020 4:04 PM

re: Can you really remove your “social media footprint”?

In between news of COVID19 surges, deaths and sundry neoliberal reversals of support, there is a “teeny problem” going on in Hong Kong. It’s so “teeny” that it affects an extremely large part of the planet in one way or another.

Some pre-starting points: The Great Firewall of China, Google, FB, M$ and various non-Chinese mega-corps over the years sometimes IN and sometimes OUT, lots of hot tech, new tech, mass tech, spy tech all distributed world wide.

Recently in Hong Kong, new laws were enacted by the governing bodies. Lots of bodies objected but the new order was established and the fallout and falling trees are happening.

One of the aspects of the falling trees, is they are attempting to erase all their previous social media posts in attempts to avoid getting crushed.

Given what we know about the Hay Stacks in the USA and the collection of global internet traffic by pretty much every national security service world wide, it is likely we are seeing prima facie real time application of forever surveillance.

Although, lots of folks have been howling in the wilderness about companies harvesting data and selling it to world+dog the gears haven’t really clicked for many.

Other shutdowns, crackdowns, limits and blackouts have happened at times across the globe and Hong Kong maybe the latest example of extreme application.

People are attempting to “remove their social media footprint”, but I do not think this possible to achieve. At best they can remove their front end accounts and scrub their front end portals but the backend belongs to Others.

Even should social media companies refuse to assist with backend searches, those haystacks are always there, they maybe in different countries with different rules but rules are always in flux like fashion.

MSM Reports:

After the new measures were announced late on Monday, Facebook, Microsoft, WhatsApp, Google, Twitter, Telegram and others said they would not process information requests from the government until they had reviewed the law.
Experts point out that China’s Great Firewall – which allows the government to inspect data as well as block IP addresses and domain names – could not be immediately replicated in Hong Kong
what is more likely is a partial blackout, cutting off access to certain sites such as LIHKG or Telegram.
Others worry the measures could go even further than in mainland China.
The law covers not only permanent residents and foreigners within Hong Kong, but anyone seen as violating the law, regardless of where they are in the world.
The security law may also add to the Balkanisation of the internet

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SpaceLifeForm July 8, 2020 4:38 PM

@ Weather

Yes, it is sick.

But important to put into big picture.

Re-parse my question. Meticulously.

Then research some torture memos.

Is the current stqte of this planet due to Dunning–Kruger effect?

How about the love of money?

An addiction that has no hangover effect other than a depletion of endorphins.

Poverty is the problem.

Everything started going downhill when a father could no longer support a family and there was not a fulltime mother to educate a three year old, to teach boundaries.

Things were going pretty good until 1963-11-22

Singular Nodals July 8, 2020 5:29 PM

Those of you who think you understand Dunning-Kruger are beginning to annoy those of us who do.

rrd July 8, 2020 5:38 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm

Those are truly fundamental, seriously important causes.

As I aged out of the entry-level programmer workforce, we were lucky that my wife could support us as a head-cook/kitchen-manager (committed craftsperson foodies rock!).

That left me alone with the kids and, luckily, I know not only how important the word “No” is, but I have the nerve to say it. My most important rule for raising children is that when the other person says they don’t want you doing something to them, they better effing stop it immediately (15 minutes staring at a wall from a foot away is an interminable, memorable, non-violent and introspective lesson for a youngin), which eventually leads to lessons on empathy. So, that precludes grabbing something from their sibling or even selfishly kissy-facing them because they’re so cute. And my kids obey me, not because of physical threats (I’ve nipped that family tradition in the bud), but because they know that if I promise to thrown or give away their favorite toys, I’ll dang well do it (and haven’t had to yet, thank God).

The price we had to pay was living in the projects.

Anyway, you’ll note that the top tax bracket in the 50s was like 90% and yet the execs still made more than enough money to live well, but not enough for greed (because there never is). That effectively meant the excess profits would go somewhere more worthwhile (more worthwhile by default).

But (IMO) the single most devastating blow to the American Experiment has been the lawyers for the wealthy (both individuals and corporations) writing the laws and dictating how they are enforced. I reckon that that crap’s been going on for — what? — over a hundred years now?

And now the pesticide companies write the EPA’s bylaws.

We have an empty field not more than a few miles from our apartment that has “Coal ash buried here — do not X, Y or Z here” warning signs around it. Just sitting there. No remediation plans, no fence, no concern. Just a couple of signs. (We have a coal-burning power plant across the river from us.)

@ JonKnowsSomething 😉

That teaching of the Buddha is deserving of contemplation (not that I’ve seen one of His that doesn’t). It reminds me of a NT parable about seeds being sown in different places and how it affects their viability.

It just goes to show that all cultures produce wise people, and that wisdom is rather simple on a certain level while remaining deeply profound and mostly ignored.


SpaceLifeForm July 8, 2020 5:41 PM

@ Singular Nodals

“Those of you who think you understand Dunning-Kruger are beginning to annoy those of us who do.”

Ah, I see you are familiar with recursion.


JonKnowsNothing July 8, 2020 5:42 PM


Everything started going downhill when a father could no longer support a family and there was not a fulltime mother to educate a three year old, to teach boundaries.
Things were going pretty good until 1963-11-22

That rather trivializes the problem. Sort of short sells single parent, no parent, and grandparent households; ignores global problems like wars, famines, and pandemics. It ignores the realities of economics and displacement.

It also ignores that the other-half has always worked, gotten less of everything, carried many burdens; and is consistently penalized for “fulltime/part time at home” work while demanding double time labor for it; and it promotes the fantasy of June Cleaver.

It also abrogates the impact of full time wars, part time wars, sometime wars, wars today but not tomorrow, future wars and promised wars. All of which are politically based and the main cannon fodder leaves your fantasy family sans daddy.

Poverty is not the province of male-daddies. It belongs to everyone.

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SpaceLifeForm July 8, 2020 7:42 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing

Valid points.

I was just pointing out when it really started to go downhill fast.

Was not meant to slight anyone trying to survive.

If we do not fix the poverty problem, at some point, there will be a bunch of dumbfuck fascists wondering why they have no food.

That point in time may be sooner than you think.

The love of money is the root of all evil.

@ Clive

Sorry, re: 10 11 Downing St. I did not mean to slight the wankers on other side of pond.

name.withheld.for.obvious.reasons July 8, 2020 7:58 PM

@ Clive, @ Unusual Suspects
There are threads here that are reminiscent of our old friend @Skeptical.

My apologies to MarkH, his steadfast and useful and thought provoking participation is often tested by others, myself included.

If anyone is curious just search the site and you’ll know and understand the recalcitrant behavior of the K&D archetype. Quite a few people here tried to pull @Skeptical along, to provide non-judgmental aid and improve the dialog. Additionally, when discourse requires conscious parties participate in a honest and deliberative fashion, the infrequent demagogues bring a disquiet to Bruce’s humble abode. As a guest here, I must insure that I am not the source of harm, prejudices, or personal vitriol but I must also be vigilant in citing instances where and when this occurs. Denigrating others does not advance a position, only your posture (perceptually).

Several old-timers here, by way of Bruce’s gracious gestures, have witnessed the invidious discourse married with a self-righteousness that does little to advance the efforts or teach and share with others. A more subtle form of caution may be necessary to reduce the amount of disrespectful or harmful interchanges. We are truly fortunate and are the benefactors of Bruce’s efforts and support, I hope to and will strive to respect Bruce’s generosity and courage.

SpaceLifeForm July 8, 2020 8:22 PM

The thumb and three fingers are not missing yet.

It’s just a flesh wound.


Rob Meeplez July 9, 2020 12:42 AM

Earn It Bill and it’s ilk may not be great for the average person, and quite likely national security as well (you have to keep in mind some of the people who get security clearances, some of their shady pasts, and many of the security & tech illiterate fools who make these decisions, despite consistent warnings for decades).

Police departments already have been infiltrated by foreign actors, and sadly the ability to monitor such actors has been demonstrated as pathetic. Members of police forces aren’t just handed spyware, they personally purchase it (from groups like NSO, Hacking Team, FinFisher), regularly abuse spyware, their security is nothing less than awful, and they regularly fail audits year after year that sight the same failures (such as the same terrible password year after year). One could be forgiven for thinking such lack of security was almost intentional, for a variety of reasons other than covering their own behinds.

Although such foolhardy behavior may make you wonder if politicians with no expertise and dodgy lawyers (your children wouldn’t be safe with them is all I’m saying) should be making decisions about national security, any outside actors would be licking their lips. The KGB used to spend 85% of it’s budget on subversion – encouraging it’s enemies to continue making mistakes, recruiting sociopaths as actors in targeted countries to work in such fields as policing (dangerous sociopaths often have no regard for the law, are excellent at charming people due to ability to fake compassion, and often exude charisma in-spite of lacking compassion).

Russian threat actors sometimes recruit from other countries, China for example, and are experts at disinformation and false flag operations. Extortion is often used to exert pressure on people such as people with a history of child abuse, or who covered up child abuse when working in justice. There are many other examples of behavior, drugs, money laundering…

China for instance tests it’s product on captive Uyghur populace and exports those products around the world to over 56 countries. The U.S. is covered in Chinese surveillance cameras, and the Australians even mounted them throughout their parliament before discovering that particular model had a backdoor.

defence contractor Uyghur malware development ties

Wesley Parish July 9, 2020 1:22 AM

@usual suspects re: coronavirus Covid-19

Warning of serious brain disorders in people with mild coronavirus symptoms

“We’re seeing things in the way Covid-19 affects the brain that we haven’t seen before with other viruses,” said Michael Zandi, a senior author on the study and a consultant at the institute and University College London Hospitals NHS foundation trust.


One concern is that the virus could leave a minority of the population with subtle brain damage that only becomes apparent in years to come. This may have happened in the wake of the 1918 flu pandemic, when up to a million people appeared to develop brain disease.

This is quite serious. The second of Dr Oliver Sacks’ books was Awakenings, about survivors of the encephalitis lethargica (sleeping sickness) epidemic. It appears it was the sequela of the flu epidemic of 1918.

Covid-19 is likely to have a very long tail, disrupting things for quite some time.

The emerging spectrum of COVID-19 neurology: clinical, radiological and laboratory findings

This supplies amongst other things, the meaning of the term ADEM:

ADEM = acute demyelinating encephalomyelitis

MarkH July 9, 2020 2:27 AM


The apology you offer is exceedingly gracious, though I don’t see a need for it.

Sometimes I feel frustrated with certain patterns of commenting … I don’t recall you as any part of that.

I learn a lot by way of conversations here. Some participants fail to make factual or intellectually serious contributions, for one reason or another.

I’m getting better at filtering out the background noise 😉

We’re surely blessed with attentive moderation, which prevents the forum Bruce offers us from decaying into yet another internet garbage dump.

Clive Robinson July 9, 2020 3:42 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm,

A couple of well earned +1’s heading your way B-)

Clive Robinson July 9, 2020 4:05 AM

@ Wesley Parish,

Warning of serious brain disorders in people with mild coronavirus symptoms

There has been some talk of people from families where they have had certain types of denentia in previous generations having brain related issues during a SARS-CoV-2 infection.

The symptoms ranging from headaches of migrain or worse proportion, through certain types of visuall and audibal hallucination and through to fitting such as you might see with epilepsy.

I’m not aware of any research or even observational studies yet, but the symptoms in other diseases have been related to the loss of insulative properties of the fatty sheath around individual nerve fibers.

Covid-19 is likely to have a very long tail, disrupting things for quite some time.

In some cases out to forever, where some families with genetic sensitivity are getting decimated. If SARS-CoV-2 becomes persistent their genome will cease to exist within a few generations.

vas pup July 9, 2020 1:48 PM

Severe brain damage possible even with mild corona symptoms

“According to British neurologists, COVID-19 can cause serious damage to the brain and central nervous system, causing psychosis, paralysis and strokes, which are often detected in their late stages.”

Should it be checked for security reason absence of brain damage after recovery out of COVID-19 for people in charge of security sensitive functions?

Weather July 9, 2020 3:57 PM

Can you send a 8 char input to sha256 from 92 keyboard input, I need to test the program blind, just make sure its 8 char long, thanks

JonKnowsNothing July 9, 2020 4:16 PM

@ Wesley Parish, Clive, vas pup

re: hallucinations and psychosis

There have been reports in older MSM articles about people who have been in long term induced comma for COVID19 after recovering having on-going, continuing hallucinations.

These comments were framed as if this was a result of being in an induced comma, not as part of the COVID19 disease process.

So, are there 2 mechanisms in play or one?

A) Are the hallucinations from the induced comma as well as COVID19?
B) Are the hallucinations misdiagnosed as being part of the induced comma protocols but are really solely due to COVID19?

Psychosis a is pretty complex area to pick apart and there isn’t much useful treatment for it.

It took centuries for the USA Medical Insurance Industry to recognize that the brain is part of the body and there are still limitations and restrictions for health access. If Post Recovery COVID19 complications, become labeled as a Mental Health issue, in the USA, future medical care may be in short supply.

USA Medical Insurance Industry still has not accepted that teeth are part of the body too, so very few have dental insurance and those that do find it pays very little of the treatment costs. Large portions of the population cannot get basic dental care, and complex procedures are priced for the 1%.

Having on going infections, abscesses, inflammation, broken teeth and rotting stumps are pretty common because the cost to fix this in the USA is beyond the financial ability for those who are 1 paycheck from eviction and the $400 non-existent emergency fund wouldn’t begin to cover the cost of a root canal and crown, much less implants or dentures.

How existing inflammatory processes, dental or otherwise, plays into COVID19 severity or survivability hasn’t been written up much. It’s all labeled as Co-Morbidity.

rrd July 9, 2020 5:01 PM

@ ALL especially @JonKnowsNothing

I, too, apologize for my attitude and behavior during our mercifully-deleted sub-tree. I will try not to do it again.

My primary mistake was to veer away from ideas and speak directly to individuals, both indirectly and directly. That’s not the way of proper discourse; all I can promise is that I’m trying to learn to be better.

Specifically, @JonKnowsNothing, I apologize for assuming you would lack the integrity such that you would change your name for an argument on the internet. By incorrectly assuming such, my ego supplied the excuses necessary to contribute to my negatively-toned discourse, demonstrating a lack of grateful respect for everyone here.

Thank you for teaching with your examples of how truly excellent internet discourse can be. It is such a treasure. Thank you all also for treating me more than generously, and never the least bit poorly.

@ ALL, especially @SpaceLifeForm, re: COVID-19

While any international organization in such an unprecedented situation is liable to have internal political tugs-of-war, the WHO’s Chief Mr. Tedros seems to have presented a strong bit of wisdom today:

The title of NPR’s article is:

Lack Of Unity Is A Bigger Threat Than Coronavirus, WHO Chief Says In Emotional Speech

“The world’s lack of solidarity — not the coronavirus — is the biggest threat we face, Tedros said, adding that divisions among countries and people give an advantage to a virus that has been holding the world hostage for months.”


Mammals compete against one another in their contrived groups; only self-evolving human beings can overcome our differences to cooperate on ever more comprehensive, useful levels such that misery is lessened while quality-of-life is improved. Callousness to all this misery is one of the major branches of money’s tree of evil.

In theory the UN could be a purely unifying force. In some ways it is, but by far not enough.

@JonKnowsNothing, re: that lesson from the dharma

Upon further contemplation, my essential understanding of that teaching is that only love for others can strengthen our vessel sufficient for it to be able to withstand being completely filled with the dharma. Selfless love for others is its only purpose, the only direction it points us towards. We all have defects in our bowls at the start, some only appearing as the vessel fills, those defects being the most dangerously capable of a catastrophic failure, such is the responsibility for claiming to know.

Once again, it was my childish ego that lead me to adopt my poor attitude and choice of words here. (One heartfelt apology is enough; afterwards, only better behavior counts.)

Appropriately, this is a part of my own medicine, for this is always how my children have had to apologize to each other (so they can’t just blow it off with a weak “I’m sorry” while looking away and going on the the next play activity):

  1. The person in the wrong must say, “I’m sorry for exactly_what_they_did_wrong, and I will try not to do it again.” (This forces them to comprehend their fault by restating and reaffirming the theory behind the rule, then humbling themselves to the person they wronged.)
  2. Then the aggrieved must accept their apology (otherwise there is the possibility for enmity or lingering prejudice).

I’ve seen the difficulty wrestling in their beings when forced to confront the detailed reality of how they messed up and then put it into words, but they have always risen to the challenge, and very rarely need to do so anymore.

I shall endeavor to demonstrate my apology by being better. Hypocrisy is yet another vice that leaks the dharma, profusely at that.

One final thought from this morning:

The primary fault with the people that refuse to wear masks or continue to bar hop is not that they believe lies, it’s that they refuse to believe the truth.

This seems an important distinction to me, for one can never integrate a new truth into one’s personally applied worldview without first accepting it’s the truth.

Wesley Parish July 10, 2020 6:19 AM

@JonKnowsNothing re: hallucinations

What I suspect – though I haven’t seen any of the drs’ reports – is that the demyelination results in crosstalk in the brain. Myelin – the fatty sheathe of nerve cells – insulates the nerve cells; it also operates as part of the driver for electrochemical signal transmission along the nerve.

Consequently, if damaged, the transmission is liable to go haywire.

But that is primarily me guessing. I don’t know enough about induced comas or Covid-19 to give a definite answer. (Result of me not doing enough reading – I’ve got a book on psychopharmacology, but haven’t got around to reading it yet. 🙂

snur-pele July 10, 2020 6:49 AM

If you want to go for noise, or crosstalk, attack the synapses. Good old fashioned shell shock will do.
I guess a virus can attack as well. Plenty of important stuff to disrupt.
Removing the Myelin, to the best of my knowledge, will basically reduce transmission speed from electrical to chemical.

MarkH July 10, 2020 1:40 PM

A little tidbit for those of us paying attention to pandemic discussions …

I just emerged from the office of an otorhinolaryngologist (for extra credit, say that six times quickly).

In the examining room was a gadget obviously intended for air filtration, which I looked at skeptically — is that thing any good against virus?

Whilst waiting for the doctor, I looked it up on my phone. It claims efficient filtration down to 7 nanometers (compare to 120 nm coronavirus typical diameter).

They cost USD 1000, and you can’t get them because demand is so great. I’m curious how it accomplishes its filtration.

vas pup July 10, 2020 2:49 PM

@Clive: you should love this related to acusitics

Hearing beyond ears: Animals and their amazing listening techniques

“Humans lost some hearing privileges to evolution. We can’t hear frequencies as low as elephants or as high as bats, and we can’t move our ears like cats. However, we learned to enhance our hearing abilities.”

There 10 good examples which definitely have utilization potential for security by mapping those features using bionics.

Clive Robinson July 10, 2020 3:05 PM

@ MarkH, ALL,

A little tidbit for those of us paying attention to pandemic discussions …

And in return…

You might remember that I had mentioned Leicester in the Middlands UK was going into “Special Lockdown Measures” due to a very worrying increase in COVID-19 cases.

It is known that two flights a day land in the UK from Pakistan some of the passengers are obviously ill and go directly to hospital, others disappear into the “community” with central and north Leicester having a very high population of people “newley in”.

Well it appears not all of them are coming in for “Healthcare migration” but also to fill vacencies in what have now become sweatshop clothing factories. Even in normal times the factories used to get Health and Safety and Fire warnings about overcrowded work areas and unsafe working practices. But due to the pandemic and online cloths ordering some factories have virtualy doubled their workforce. Such places do not have kitchens or eating areas, as for hand washing some do not even have the toilets they should have,

So not exactly what you would expect for disease control…

MarkH July 10, 2020 3:24 PM


It would seem that the governments of the U.K. and U.S. are in a contest for who can make the most tragically incompetent response to this pandemic.

The four horsemen of authoritarian mindset have all visited needless tragedy on their countrymen.

Meantime, most states with progressive leadership — especially, those led by women — have in most cases done far better.

Chris July 10, 2020 4:56 PM

Hi long time ago i used to have an USB stick that was a Killer

i showed it once to on of my security boss that got shocked

I dont remember the exact details but it was i would say 2007 perhaps even 2008 and it was a hack of a hacked U3 launcher

were you could put any payload you wanted, and there was at that time nothing you could do if the antivirus didnt catch it, it would launch

It was probably similar to this, i havent found my documentation
of that era how i did it back at the time

Anyways, alot is said about these USB sticks in Iran that the Stuxnet blew up, but very little has been said how it was done.
I think personally that this U3 launchpad flaw was used
But ofcouse what would I know…

JonKnowsNothing July 10, 2020 5:09 PM

@MarkH @Clive @All

re: How Ya Gonna Keep ’em Down on the Farm …

I do not think too many countries have successfully maintained “border controls” despite what BorisClaims, even in the most stringent of conditions.

Smugglers are legionary at avoiding borders and if they can’t avoid them they bribe there way through them.

Spy stories abound with heart-bounding details of passing security controls with fake letters of transit or recognizing that the patrolperson cannot read and supplying something that looks officious.

Some humorous, although serious, examples come from New Zealand where folks are fully locked in for quarantine, except when they want to go walkabout.

… a 32-year-old man [left] Auckland’s Stamford Plaza hotel, bypass security guards and walk to a local Countdown supermarket. The man had been smoking in a fenced area when he escaped and was apparently mistaken for a contractor by security staff
…a woman leapt over from a hedge to escape her two-week quarantine. Later she got lost and asked a passing policeman for directions back to her hotel.

For intersting OpSec error

… infringement of stay-at-home directions was discovered after two people ordered about 20 meals at a KFC store … The large order raised suspicion….[and they] notified police of their concern.

Police followed their car to a townhouse in the suburb where they found a group of people who then tried to hide in the backyard, garage and under beds.

[the incident] has led to a $26,000 (£14,360) lockdown fine for a group of birthday partygoers.

Australia has a serious outbreak in Melbourne and has closed the borders between New South Wales (NSW) and Victoria.

The Melbourne Towers out break deserves a bit more scrutiny because of how the outbreak has spread. Currently they have locked everyone inside the towers (a la Princess Cruise Ships) so the transmission path will be completely muddled.

  • 9 apartment towers, college campus, hospital, family clusters, multiple schools(1), hotel, childcare center, business office, transportation company, dental office
  • 3,000+ people
  • June 15, 2020 thru current
  1. School level designations are different in the USA.

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A primary school, junior school (in UK & Australia), elementary school or grade school (in US & Canada) is a school for children from about four to eleven years old.

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an academically oriented secondary school, differentiated in recent years from less academic secondary modern schools. The main difference is that a grammar school may select pupils based on academic achievement whereas a secondary modern may not. … [in USA] grammar school is the magnet school, a state-funded secondary institution that may select students from a given school district according to academic criteria

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“How Ya Gonna Keep ’em Down on the Farm (After They’ve Seen Paree?)” is a World War I song that rose to popularity after the war had ended. The lyrics highlight concern that American soldiers from rural environments would not want to return to farm life after experiencing the European city life and culture of Paris during World War I.

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Clive Robinson July 10, 2020 5:12 PM

@ MarkH,

Meantime, most states with progressive leadership — especially, those led by women — have in most cases done far better.

It’s actually not very surprising when you think about it. As an over generalised rule of thumb women tend to be better communicators importabtly in borh directions.

It’s been kind of noticable in the country with the highest per capita death rate of any major country that “listening” to advisors with any domain knowledge is not a strong suit in particular for “blond blowhards”.

I guess it’s time to repurpose all those “blond” jokes for the “Stale White and Male” leaders…

SpaceLifeForm July 10, 2020 6:19 PM

@ Weather


Oh, wait that is 9

Try this one:


I am guessing you are thinking along these lines…


SpaceLifeForm July 10, 2020 7:36 PM

@ Chris

Hmmm. (opens bag)

Cruzer ring a bell?

I may be looking at the wrong one, but anyway, it is a USB Key that actually emulates a CDROM.

So, if inserted into a Windows box, it could autorun.

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