Friday Squid Blogging: Good Squid Fishing in the Exmouth Gulf

The conditions are ideal for squid fishing in the Exmouth Gulf in West Australia.

As usual, you can also use this squid post to talk about the security stories in the news that I haven't covered.

Read my blog posting guidelines here.

Posted on November 23, 2018 at 4:05 PM • 55 Comments

Comments

Clive RobinsonNovember 23, 2018 5:59 PM

Jousting or Journalism.

Hands up those who don't remember Bloomberg doubling down and serving up a nothing burger inside scoop, and in the process crashing stock in several tech companies...

The point being Main Stream Media, certainly in the US frequently fail to report tech stories, especially tech security stories either accurately or even close to accurately. I won't say faux news, because I see even the tech trade press getting it wrong, the thing is the subject is well technical ;-)

But joking aside policy makers their advisors and interns don't read the tech trade press let alone the deep down tech blogs, but they do read MSM as their tech espousing often shows. There used to be a department of specialist advisors to US politicians, but it was seen by some as "an expense to far" thus it got the chop and US legislation is all the poorer for it.

Apparently I'm not the only one who has noticed this MSM problem,

https://blog.erratasec.com/2018/10/some-notes-for-journalists-about.html

Whilst Robert Graham gets a point over about Bloomberg what he does not mention and should is a lot of MSM Tech stories are "fed to them" by various vested interests and so called "off the record" sources are shall we say not what they could be in the "honest news" category, axe grinding being what it is. Worse for many stories there is no "verifiable evidence". Sometimes you have to know which way the hot air on "the hill" is blowing to get a "truthiness" rating on it. Oddly for many, it's not how close you are but how far you are that gives the best perspective. It's usually better to have atleast a two thousand mile distant overview of "the hill". It's a bit like understandin brownian motion close up it's chaotic, it's only at a distance does it resolve into a recognisable progression ;-)

It's why I urge caution in atribution, as often it's layer upon layer upon layer of assumptions based on pure hunch based guesswork. A modern example of GIGO in action.

Oh and for the record even the tech press got stuxnet wrong due to those guesswork hunches, even though the clues were there to be spotted...

echoNovember 23, 2018 6:33 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/23/sajid-javid-abandons-plans-to-ban-50-calibre-military-grade-guns

Sajid Javid has quietly abandoned plans to ban high-powered military-grade rifles after dozens of hard Brexit Conservatives and the DUP came together to voice opposition to the Home Office plan.

Isn't it funny how a well resourced authoritarian police force who ignore their own oblications and trivialise community concerns get so hot under the collar at a theoretical attack against themselves? Meanwhile not a peep from the government about protecting the rights of citizens which has been underpinned by UK membership of the EU. The fact that politicans without pause for breat trade citizens rights for advantage without so much as a democratic discussion would I have thought got peoples attention.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/23/hillary-clinton-populism-europe-immigration

Hillary Clinton’s chilling pragmatism gives the far right a free pass. Calling on Europe’s leaders to ‘get a handle on migration’ is no counter to populists – it’s more like an endorsement.

Yes, a positive and well managed immigration/emigration policy with appropriate government planning is indeed a place we should be. I agree that Clinton's mishandling of the argument is just adding fuel to the fire stoked by the likes of Bannon and Farage and even less polite political extremists. In fact I don't get the whole failure of logic by UK and other politicians in this area. I'm sure short-term triangulation has played a big role in explaining why we are at where we are today. It is as any decent philosopher or marketing expert knows a load of rubbish.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/23/catholic-priests-issued-with-photo-cards-to-confirm-their-identities

Catholic priests in England and Wales are being issued with photo cards, ending the days when a dog collar and an air of piety were enough to confirm their credentials.

I have no idea if this will change anything important in practice.

Clive RobinsonNovember 23, 2018 7:07 PM

@ echo,

I have no idea if this will change anything important in practice.

Actually it might do but in an odd way.

Currently being a religious worker even if paid is regarded as "a calling" thus exempt from much employment law (as several Salvation Army personnel have found). Giving them identity cards that have any meaning will open the way for those in the Catholic Church to claim "employment" in a similar way to Londons "Pimlico Plumbers" and private car hire company "Addison Lee" workers.

Such things have a habbit of becoming more important as UK society moves towards being more progress/liberal rather than repressive/catholic.

I've been of the view for quite some time that religion should not be exempt from taxation automatically. If they want charitable status then they have to establish it just like every other organisation with the same rules applying. Likewise if they want access to minors they should follow the same "vetting rules".

HypoNovember 23, 2018 8:45 PM

"Apparently I'm not the only one who has noticed this MSM problem,"

Anyone who says "nothingburger" about an ongoing story simply isn't practicing what they preach above.

WeatherNovember 23, 2018 8:45 PM

Clive
The haweri phone functional was better,like those light on the HDD,compared to Alcatel were I need to hack the phone(power off at night), saying that the former was $250 the latter $120

echoNovember 23, 2018 9:02 PM

@Clive

My sense of humour imagined Catholic priests practicing being authoritarian and flashing their badge in the bathroom mirror before duck rolling across the floor shouting "We're going dark!!!" and jamming their breakfast cereal box over their head.

On more level ground there are establishment type people who do use ivory tower loopholes as you suggest to enhance status and power and lack of accountability. There is I suspect more than one C of E priest who has openly declared believing in God is not necessary to be a member of the church.

As for a "calling" I never heard anything so ridiculous in my life to excuse decency and human rights. IfI have my common law right "religion has no place in English law" and "emotions arenot valid legal argument" so which esteemed alumni of Eton thought this one up?

The issue of charity and tax is an old one. As well as being abused by freeloaders and tax dodgers there is also the problem of government avoiding responsibilities and foisting them on to charities. Maybe it's just me but I personally believe people who raise money for hospital MRI scanners and similar are well meaning but naive or gullible. It plays into the sainthood of a self gloriying profession who take no shortcuts when it comes to their occasionally abusive union representation and lets often shortsighted accountants and poor quality managers off the hook.

Clive RobinsonNovember 24, 2018 2:47 AM

@ Hypo,

You appear to be a new handle, freshly minted, but why is the question? After all you say nothing of substance,

Anyone who says "nothingburger" about an ongoing story simply isn't practicing what they preach above.

But even that single comment fails you...

Two points of note,

1, Incorrect quoting.
2, On going by whom?

The first puts you up for membership in the "Bloomberg tech reports club".

But after a month of no comment by anybody in what might be regarded as the US MSM the second point becomes of interest?

Perhaps you should read this,

https://kevtownsend.wordpress.com/2014/02/07/rumbled-by-robert-graham/

But you probably will not, your handle suggests you are a "passive voice" type hiding, hiding hiding...

But you might also want to consider this[1] on the Bloomberg story,

    The article does not give any actual technical details, publishes no sources, and relies on anonymous information almost entirely. Furthermore Apple [2], Amazon [3], SuperMicro [4], and the Chinese government have all published scathing denials of the story. The FBI [41], DHS [45], CSE [43], and NCSC [34], all organisations tasked with identifying this sort of thing, have all publicly stated they are unaware of any such hack.

So "Hypo" an interesting choice as it means "under" as a prefix, but also a name for "sodium thiosulphate" used by developers as a "fixer". Are you an "under" achieving "fixer"?

[1] https://www.nccgroup.trust/uk/about-us/newsroom-and-events/blogs/2018/october/much-ado-about-hardware-implants/

MarkHNovember 24, 2018 3:43 AM

.
Rowhammer Exploit Works Against ECC

arstechnica article

Short version: "Rowhammer" is a serious exploit of a vulnerability that exists because almost all presently manufactured computer RAM chips are inherently defective.

Manufacturers of these known-defective products proposed the use of internal error correction (long available on more expensive DRAM) as a barrier against this attack. Note well that this is palliation of the defect, NOT remediation.

A security research group in the Netherlands has developed a practical exploit to carry out the Rowhammer attack against DDR3 with ECC, achieving success against several types.

To this old engineer, the Intel/Microsoft "we can sell it bugs and all" mindset is of a piece with the present world of "alternative facts," a broadly pervasive system of non-values.

Clive and I can remember when some component manufacturers would correct or withdraw types that didn't function as advertised, at least in the face of public exposure ... shame has died.

AndersNovember 24, 2018 9:19 AM

@Clive

Same thing is in Estonia.The biggest telco Telia has choosen
Huawei central equipments for the FTTH solution and telcos hardly
toss away their investments and carrier grade equipment overnight.
Huawei has proprietary encryption, so in case of GPON Telia uses
Huawei EchoLife HG8010 and that's the only option for the customer.

echoNovember 24, 2018 1:19 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/24/natwest-close-branches-after-housing-benefit-protests

Housing activists have forced NatWest branches across the country to close as part of wider actions attended by hundreds protesting against the bank’s policy of discriminating against renters claiming housing benefit.

No DSS. This is as bad as "No dogs. No blacks. No jews." or "Let one it let them all in." or "The only good N word is a dead N word."

For a start as the article argues this is a blanket ban and a breach of the Equality Act. secondly, I believe this restriction is unblawful or has been ruled unlawful in the past. This raises interesting questions about the nature of discrimination and how covert fine print organisational driven law subverts democracy. The prejudice of the rule makers becomes the rule and all the robots follow it. Even where such fine print does not exist it is known that administrators hiding behind the badge and processes make decisions which are wholly unblawful when considering the actual mechanics of decision making and due diligence. Following orders is no defence and according to case law employees can be compelled to bear witness against the company.

There is also the very pernicious issues of "following orders" and "learned helplessness" and a "toxic environment".

The CEO of the Royal Bank of Scotland group, which owns the bank, expressed the bank’s “extreme disappointment” to MPs over the way the landlord’s case was handled in a letter on Tuesday.

Ross McEwan wrote: “In line with a number of other lenders … our mortgage policy for landlords with smaller property portfolios … includes a restriction on letting to tenants in receipt of housing benefit.

“This reflects evidence that rental arrears are much greater in this segment of the market and we are satisfied that this restriction does not contravene equality legislation.”

I am really staggered how people who claim to be so senior and so skilled and so knowledgeable suddenly lack reason and thoroughness when it comes to some decisions. The whole system is rigged with direct and indirect discriminations which create the appearance of legitimacy but heap a huge discrimination problem and undue burden on people this forcing the costs onto the potential tenant and the courts and society. In some extreme cases this can result in additional costs such as reinforcing domestic abuse or causing someone to fall back into drug addiction or place someone in a position where they cannot get a job and all the poor health and financial impact this causes. In a small number of cases this may result in avoidable death.

Ross McEwan is disappointed? Disappointed??????? HE is disappointed? Breathtaking...

Human rights are not for sale. Period.

PeaceHeadNovember 24, 2018 2:43 PM

Here's something of an old entryset on a current topic:

"Alternative Internets(!)":

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/mediapolicyproject/2014/11/24/alternative-internets-what-are-they-and-do-they-have-a-future/

https://en.crimerussia.com/gromkie-dela/russia-and-china-working-on-alternative-internet/

https://www.dailysabah.com/technology/2018/07/02/russia-cooperating-with-china-to-build-alternative-internet-report-says

Personally,

I think there ought to be several separate internets based solely upon function and intended audience. Here's a rough incomplete idea:

Each independent internet would ONLY carry it's specific type of content and no more and no less. Also, critically, each internet would be established upon it's own servers, cabling, physical connections, protocols, and devices. Each separate internet backbone and path from sources to destinations would be deliberately designed to block compatibility with all other independent internets. The purpose of this would be to reduce cross-contamination. Think of this how nowadays we don't mix and match audio and video cables haphazardly with electrical power cables and signals (lest somebody gets electrocuted!).

Yeah, I know it's a fantasy, but please bear with me...

* an independent internet solely for hackers and anti-hackers
* an independent internet solely for video uploaders and video downloaders
* an independent internet solely for rated PG image uploaders and rated PG image downloaders
* an independent internet solely for rate XXX image uploaders and rated XXX image downloaders
* an independent internet solely for scientific info uploading and downloading
* an independent internet solely for (so-called) news as text
* an independent internet solely for (so-called) news as video
* an independent internet solely for (so-called) news as text with images
* an independent internet solely for emails
* an independent internet solely for instant messaging
* an independent internet solely for computer dating
* an independent internet solely for civic government use
* an independent internet solely for military use
* an independent internet solely for intelligence use
* an independent internet solely for diplomatic use
* an independent internet solely for advertising and product placement and discounts
* an independent internet solely for bartering and exchanges
* an independent internet solely for search engines
* an independent internet solely for artificial intelligence "stuff"
* an independent internet solely for social networking

ETC.... I hope you get the idea.
Please think about it as a starting point for brainstorming.
The current status of the internet is just plain unacceptable to the likes of me anymore.

Sincerely,
PeaceHead

P.S.-If anybody misses my old, former webpage, I might be able to re-establish many of the popular (and unpopular) tunes and maybe some images. But this won't happen until I can get a stable internet connection and an email addy/account that doesn't get stolen in less than 6,5,4,3,2,1 months/weeks/days/hours/minutes/seconds/milliseconds/picoseconds.

Alyer Babtu November 24, 2018 3:18 PM

@echo

government avoiding responsibilities and foisting them on to charities

Government’s only real responsibility is justice. It has always done damage when it acts in other areas. They are far better left to charities. The incentives are then aligned also. But not everything claiming to be “charity” is such. Reason can be used to discern whether it is. Today however this is dangerous because we have drifted far from wholesome ethical starting points under enlightenment teachings.

Sherman JerroldNovember 24, 2018 4:57 PM

Security is not just digital --

replying to Alyer Babtu
'Government’s only real responsibility is justice.'

and @echo
'government avoiding responsibilities and foisting them on to charities'

The unites states constitution requires 'providing for the common welfare'
without this, the current state of wealth/health/housing inequality murders people. And many studies have shown that the pitiful amounts of private charity are meaningless. The security of our country relies on an informed populace voting intellegently and diligently.

Security in the digital world is also a matter of grave inequality. The 'allegedly' most secure computers are apple and microsoft. Broadband in the united states is spyware and more expensive than in any civilized country. So, to buy and securely use these vital resources is beyond the financial reach of a huge segment of the populace.

Men in BlackNovember 24, 2018 6:07 PM

https://seekingalpha.com/pr/17315500-transunion-expands-footprint-government-sector-new-fedlink-contract-award

TransUnion, the consumer debt collection agency, has a new contract to provide information management and other services to the federal government, including the U.S. court system.

A huge conflict of interest.

A party to a debt collection, or a firm whose primary business is collecting debt, cannot be claiming the debt in court as party to a suit at the same time it is managing the information systems of the court, e.g., to control what the judge and attorneys on the respective sides are able to see about the defendant, or to deny the filing of pleas or affidavits or other papers, which one side or the other would find convenient to have disappeared.

echoNovember 25, 2018 4:30 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/25/revealed-faulty-medical-implants-harm-patients-around-world

Patients around the world are suffering pain and many have died as a result of faulty medical devices that have been allowed on to the market by a system dogged by poor regulation, lax rules on testing and a lack of transparency, an investigation has found.

[…]

In the UK alone, regulators received 62,000 “adverse incident” reports linked to medical devices between 2015 and 2018. A third of the incidents had serious repercussions for the patient, and 1,004 resulted in death.

Systemic failure including arbitrary political priorites, mismanagement, and paranoia are creating a broken ecosystem which results in the avoidable deaths of over 1000 people per annum. This is simply due to one class of technical failure and does not include other failures or other deaths in the total.

While many readers of this blog arefamiliar with CPU and communications security issues few realise that academics prodcuning papers on medical industry issues use the telecommunications industry as a model as the two systems are very similar in practice. I contend that this opens the door for security experts to comment on the medical industry and provide technical advice and support to promote "best practice" and protect human rights and equality and, of course, sufficient critical resources to prevent the medical equivalent of a major terrorist attack EVERY MONTH OF THE YEAR.

VinnyGNovember 25, 2018 4:50 PM

@Peacehead re: segregation of internets by content - one issue is whether this would make it easier to identify and eliminate content deemed "subversive" by TPTB. Or there could be a 'net for subversive content only

VinnyGNovember 25, 2018 4:57 PM

@Men in Black re: TransUnion contract - look for the IRS to farm out collection to TU juice men. Invest in kneecap protectors...

Men in BlackNovember 25, 2018 5:22 PM

@VinnyG: ... the IRS to farm out collection to TU juice men ...

The tax return you could have sworn you filed for that one year, and you had a copy in your records? It's all gone, and now you're accused of a crime in tax court. Guns are banned, and those nightmare scenarios will become more and more frequent as the U.S. continues to descend into fascism, Nazism, tyranny, and totalitarianism under total consumer information awareness and control.

Clive RobinsonNovember 26, 2018 1:46 AM

@ echo,

As I mentioned the other day, I've just had an "upgrade" on what's in my chest from a "reveal" that has now been explanted to a "pacer" that has been implanted, and currently has given me a bump the size of half a goose egg in my left shoulder right where the straps for my "every day" back pack go[1] :-(

As some one who knows a little bit about RF and Communications issues I did a little digging before I alowed either device to be put in as there are multiple problems with them.

You will find over the years I've mentioned my concern over implanted medical electronics and it's issues on this blog. Importantly the at best "security by obscurity" approach by certain US medical electronics manufactures, and I kind of broke the "St Judes" story here when a US stock adviser basically said "don't touch them" as they believed they were ripe for class action issues.

Well as I said in the opening chat with my Cardiologist "St Judes is not on the pacemaker yes list" he did not bat an eyelid and mentioned that they prefered other sources...

Well guess what,

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/25/faulty-pacemaker-nanostim-raises-concerns-medical-device-testing

St Judes is about to get multiple class action hits real soon now...

So anyone who is offered St Judes or it's new parent company Abbotts Labs[2] products should have a think about it and based on the little I currently know[3] ask what the alternatives are.

But I'm also quite aware of the issues behind this story,

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/25/hernia-mesh-implants-cost-top-british-athlete-five-years-career-dai-greene

And all I can say is Dai has got of lightly compared to others...

[1] My back pack is not a "vanity item" as it is with quite a few people. Because of other medical problems and surgery cock-ups I get around on crutches which means both hands are used on the sticks. Thus are unavailable to carry a briefcase or trundle an airline hand luggage style hard shell wheelie bag around.

[2] Abbotts Labs paid $25billion in cash and common stock for St Judes back in Jan17. In theory to give then greater product diversity in cardiac, nurostimulation and other implant products. If I held stock in either I would have dumped it by now, personaly I don't see good times for either brand for quite a while. Which means that share hawkers are likely to do a bit of manipulation, especially as Abbott have had around a 3% drop in market value over the past few days...

[3] As the article you link to points out due to industry lobbying it's difficult approaching impossible to get the information you need to de even minimal research on medical implant organisations and the rate of new products with no or insufficient trials is rising exponentially whilst the agencies responsible for monitoring and safety are getting decimated by politicos who are also beong lobbied by the industry...

echoNovember 26, 2018 4:58 AM

@Clive

My personal feeling is a lot of medical practice and admin and other issues are being given the soft focus treatment and medical suppliers and private sector are taking the blame for problems. Fault lies where fault lies and the medical industry as a whole has issues with admitting this as well as other agencies more indirectly involved with healthcare. My case files which I'm trying to get legal representation for make hairy reading.

You can always try a sling backpack.

My current bottomless pit carries everything I may want to lug but not appropriatefor all situations. I have been shopping for a new smart handbag. Every one I like costs silly money or has some detail I don't like. I also carry in my handbag a zip wallet style fold out bag and a pull out of a plastic container over the shoulder bag just in case (which has enough length in the strap to go double shoulder if the apocolypse arrives and I need to hike).

The Stewart Golf X9 Follow is a robotic golf caddy that uses bluetooth to follow you around. I'm sure you could rustle up something cheaper yourself. There's a DIY project which is similar. (Seelink.) The British army recently tested something similar in concept for deploying supplies during the weapons exercise?

Al Queda were amateurs so their similar front gate penetrating contraption to deploy exploisives on a British military base was not successful. Drones of course were an idea waiting to happen at any public event attracting large numbers of world leaders. I can also think of worse things to deploy than radioactive material or bioweapons.

https://www.pocketmagic.net/make-the-robot-follow-you/

CassandraNovember 26, 2018 10:39 AM

@echo

Unless it has a multitude of feet, unlimited capacity, does my laundry, and is carnivorous when necessary, I don't want luggage that follows me around.

Cassie

(Althought Terry Pratchett didn't cite it as a probable source, the backpack carried by Rufo in Heinlein's Glory Road has some obvious similarities.

Rufo's baggage turned out to be a little black box about the size and shape of a portable typewriter. He opened it. And opened it again. And kept on opening it and kept right on unfolding its sides and letting them down until the durn thing was the size of a small moving van and even more packed. )

Even this is prefigured in the Norse sagas, with the ship Skíðblaðnir being able to be folded up and put in a pocket.

Clive RobinsonNovember 26, 2018 3:49 PM

@ Cassie,

Terry did share a story about where the idea of the lugage came from. But I have to excercise caution because Terry like Douglas Addams could sometimes let reality take a back seat to what it should have been ;-)

In essence Terry had reason to go through an airport where a large woman (assumed US citizen) had a large piece of luggage on a teather and like the famed "shopping trolley" of the wonky wheel very much apprared to not just have a life of it's own but an entire seperate exisyance in a potentially alternative plane of existance.

Needless to say Douglas had a simillar issue with his backpack taking a different route around Europe to him which was his excuse for being laid out in a field suffering the "merry go round" effect with a student travel guide acting as protection for his eyes due to absent sun glasses... It is apparently this that gave rise to the notion of Hitch-Hikers...

I likewise have had a moment of time standing still whilst watching an American lady and an overly large handbag of such magnitude it was difficult to decide which was bigger than the other. The lady was obviously taller, but the bag of such volume it might have seen secondary service as an emergancy shelter for two or more close acquaintances. A young and obviously inexperienced customs officer called her across to have the bag checked, she went across all smilles and lightness and put the bag on the table where I could swear micro gravity effects were causing not just the dust in the air but other things to start forming orbits around it. On looking into the bag it was obvious from the customs officers face that he now realised he had made a frightful mistake as he reluctantly moved a few items at the top. The ever chearful lady with an excess of happy helpfulness that as we were to discover knew no bounds said "No honey yer need to do it like this" and inverted the bag and it's contents onto the counter and lifted away the bag. Which now behaved like the cornucopia of life and issued forth a monumental cascade of items that quickly formed a mountain. One item like the legandary meatball made a bid for freedom by rolling down the mountain, across the counter top hit the ground and made a frantic skittering run for freedom. Alas the lady spied the object and with unbelievable energy bounced after the object and managed to grab it before it's bid for asylum could come to fruition. With a shriek of delight and a face beaming and more radiant than a WWII anti-aircraft search light she returned to the counter and anounced to the now hushed and mesmerized hords "Gee I've been looking for that for six months". Such an irresistible force of nature could not be resisted and the poor customs man bowed to the inevitable and just helped her ladle her items back in the bag, where upon the lady beaming happily still holding the object lightly bounced out of customs and on her way without a care in the world. The spell lifted and time and the crowd that had just stood still resumed as if nothing had happened and the magic of the moment was replaced by the dreadful hum drum monotony that is the normal state of such places.

No doubt there are others with their own memorable moments in time where the gods appear despite all else to smile down on an individual who then radiates it out to all around like the sight of winter sunshine on freshly fallen snow.

WaelNovember 26, 2018 8:10 PM

@Rach El,

Glanced at the link. Didn't know what to make out of it.

what's the metric version of Inch'Allah?

French spelling, eh? Short explanation: It's been used for a couple of meanings:

  1. Old times: I'll do it, for sure. So long as God wills it (I don't die, get sick, or some other good reason to stop me from fulfilling the action)
  2. Modern times (not infrequent use, especially among the uninformed, unfortunately:) I'll do it when I get to it. Read: Not in your lifetime. And that's the metric version you're looking for -- as opposed to the imperial one, so to speak.

So in modern times the term has been unintentionally misused. The detailed explanation will take a page and a half or so. It's a profound question, really :)

Ad nauseamNovember 26, 2018 8:40 PM

"You will find over the years I've mentioned my concern over implanted medical electronics"

In addition to everything else you can relate to yourself, yes.

Rach El November 27, 2018 1:05 AM

Wael

what a delightful response. Thanks very much. I enjoyed reading.

French spelling indeed hahaha. I thought something must be wrong. It's how
it appears on English subtitles when watching something French native. Invariably there's an Arabic speaker in the mix (this being France and all). Probably a native French speaker doing the subtitles. Actually I should know better given my copious experience with the word but glad you grabbed the pun and ran with it in a very meaningful manner.

Aside from any potential enjoyment you glean from the new spelling of my name, it's the only way I can get through the spam filter,strangely, more recently


Rach ElNovember 27, 2018 1:07 AM

Ad nauseam

You are right. Thanks so much for reminding us how fortunate we are to have Clive here. Appreciate your affirmation, thanks so much.
here's some big love and a hug your way xoxoxoxo

Clive RobinsonNovember 27, 2018 3:05 AM

@ Ad nauseam,

New bottle same old sour wine, is your life realy that sad?

With regards,

In addition to everything else you can relate to yourself, yes.

You can not even get that right can you...

I have been talking about the lack of security and vulnerability to attack of not just smart meters and medical implants for many years. That is long long before they related to me in a personal way.

Or are you trying to claim I can acurately see into the future?

If so are you hoping I'll say something about your future?

But then do I need realy need to?

I think most will be able to make a prediction on your behaviour that would be somewhat accurate. Thus it's probably best all round if I don't and likewise you stop with your obviously failing recollections... So a suggestion instead, go and do something more worthwhile with the time you have remaining to you.

Clive RobinsonNovember 27, 2018 4:18 AM

@ Rach El, Wael,

French spelling indeed hahaha

It's odd but "metrification" and France have poped up twice in my life in less than 24 hours...

My son was asking what a "gon" was and why it existed[1]...

I explained it was also called a "gradian" and originated in France along with the advent of metrification. That is rather than be happy with 360 degrees in a full rotation that the Phoenicians bequeathed us for sound reasons. As part of their "a hundred for everything" quest, the French wanted 100 gradians in a quater rotation... And it was from "four lots of a hundred, hundred, hundreds" of the distance around the equator we got the decametre...

He then asked the obvious question that reminds my of the Monty Python sketch[2] of "Yes, but whats it used for?"...

I confidently started explaining a couple of things before realising both were very lame,

1, That although the decametre is very rarely used, it's realy quite common being the aproximate width of most surburban house plots, which are two poles or perches of 16.5 feet or 1/320th of a statute mile...

2, At the equator --only-- one gon is one hundred thousand metre which is important to modern surveyors as well...

Realising my "Old Fart" status was being rapidly buttressed I switched tactics and used the modern parent "Trump Card" to end all such problems of "Go and look it up on Wiki!"

The result being son consults smart phone pauses and says "Dad" in that dread monotone befor a plaintif "It says my calculators so out of date it's from the 1980's" before returning to the gon with "Yes, but what's it..."

Life can be so unkind to parents, especially those that were out earning money as a qualified proffessional in the 80's using that very usless unit of measure as well as a couple of rods, poles or perches...

[1] Thankfully about the actual unit of measure not it's "gawd awful" name which arose from Greek. But... because of other names and words that had "e" in them in various languages etc etc... In other words "A compleate pigs breakfast" of a mess.

[2] The infamous "Yes, but what have the Romans done for us?" meeting of "The People's Liberation Front of Judea" where they debate in the style of a 1970's English "Union meeting".

WaelNovember 27, 2018 6:35 AM

@Clive Robinson, @Rach El,

My son was asking what a "gon" was...

Good thing he didn't ask about 'Slugs'. My physics teacher once said: "No work in Slugs" :)

Clive RobinsonNovember 27, 2018 10:09 AM

@ Wael, Rach El,

Good thing he didn't ask about 'Slugs'.

Aghhhh Noooo yer raising a sweat, but no matter how hard yer pounds are, they lack force ;-)

And other such jokes I'm sure your teacher would have apreciated.

For those that don't understand the Americanisation of Imperial Measurments that originated out of the Holy Roman Empire, when back in the old days of long ago a "force" was a "body of men". And a pound be it dry or wet weight was a "weight" of which the fundemental unit was a hens egg[1] 8 eggs giving the Imperial pound and ten eggs the Imperial pint.

The reason for this was the kitchen recipe was generally the only thing that required small and reasonably precise measures, and most such recipies contained eggs... Which is why if you get into historical recipies use eggs as your datum to calculate the other ingredients by as that way it will come out right.

So the Imperial pound was a measure of "weight" then "some idiot" despite what the church was saying about don't do it, started to think more about what weight realy was, and that as the old joke has it "Was when the trouble started". The next thing you know the Earth is nolonger the center of the universe and the church was thus in a spin and had a bit of fudging to do ;-)

But what the heck people still had trouble with the whole notion of "not hanging on by your fingernails" when you went over the edge of the Earth. Not that an honest christian could find the bl@@dy edge anyway, it mysteriously kept moving away from the God Fearing so no probs there then 0:)

All of a sudden weight was not weight any more but some mass times force thingy you could not see or touch, but oh boy did it make your back ache after moving heavy things around...

So you had one bunch claiming a pound was now a mass multipled by a mysterious force in pounds, thus what was this mass thingy and force anyway? Well a "slug" is a pound now called a mass, and that mysterious force well that was 32feet per second per second acting on that slug to give us 32 pounds of weight on earth... Easy huh?

The other bunch took a hunk of platinum gave it a polish stuck it under a glass dome and locked it in a safe...

Even though we should now all be talking about mass in Kg, force and weight confussingly both in Newtons, because weight is now an acceleration even though the lump of mass may not be moving :-S

Any way both the brain and eyes are bending under the force of insomnia catch up so time to calculate a few things in z's ;-)

[1] No I joke with you not, hens eggs were once the fundemental unit of weight and volume... A large hens egg from a young hen just past "double yolking"[2] being a couple of ounces (around 56-60grams) and a couple of fluid ounces (around 58-62ml).

[2] Male chickens are roosters and usually are grown as meat birds and get the chop early on when weighing two to three pounds, only some lucky few will be kept to become cocks or roosters. The realy unlucky ones get castrated early on to grow faster and get called "capons". Meat birds both hens and cocks are named by weight as "boiler" "fryer" and "roaster" with young roosters sometimes calked "broilers". A female immature hen "pullet" that is grown for meat gets the chop around six to nine months is a "boiler" and may be an egg bird that has not started laying properly. The egg birds start irregularly with a mixture of small fairly usless eggs and large eggs often with double yolks around twenty to thirty weeks depending on age and breed. They are then called lays. I will spare you the biological details of double yolk eggs as it's no doubt "food time" as you are reading this. When a hen has stopped laying double yolkers they lay the largest of normal eggs usually six days a week depending on the breed. As they age first the size then the number of eggs decreases. About the time the furious layers have got down to only 150-180 eggs a year or four small eggs or three eggs a week, they are considered economicaly past it as egg birds and can be brought to market for others to "grow on" into meat birds or "garden birds" as combined layers pest control / pets. A hen will usually lay for upto five years thus can get to quite a size in the process. When they stop laying they are called "spent" or "biddies".

WaelNovember 27, 2018 11:31 AM

@Clive Robinson, @Rach El,

For those that don't understand the Americanisation of Imperial Measurments that originated out of the Holy Roman Empir

Perhaps you need to clarify it more: The unit of work is Joule (and it's the unit of Energy, too.) Slugs are units of mass, and also are lazy people. So no work in slugs ;)

Oh, The 'blob' is the inch version of the slug... No! not an encrypted blob ;)

Rach ElNovember 27, 2018 1:21 PM

Wael, Clive Robinson

oh dear. I hold myself responsible.

Two inspirations from your wonderful words:

1. a public service inforgraphic demonstrating how a famous and devestating concentrated wall of wildfire could be measured in real world terms. Several examples were given.One was 'if you take a can of preserved food off the shelf at the supermarket 27 billion times, that's one billionth of the force in one millisecond of the energy of the bushfire' I told an engineer about this and he was highly offended. That's work! he screamed. I said it's what? He said it's work!, screaming again. I thought he was mad

2. The periodic table has had many versions. One was a delightful spiral shape, directly inspired by and relatable to the arrondissements of Paris.

i respectfully bow out. LOVE

Clive RobinsonNovember 27, 2018 2:37 PM

@ Wael,

I see from the link that the "blob" was also called a "slugett" at 1/12th of a slug it could be misconstrued as a slugs little sister. In the same way we have Lad and Ladett...

It begs the question of "Just what were these standards idiots upto with their naming conventions?"[1]...

No wonder units based on scientists names quickly gained pre-eminence...

I will now "duck and cover" as I feel that there may well be "incoming" of at least righteous indignation from both sides =:B

[1] Having spent many years of my life trying to make women not just welcome but valued in STEM, finding such things even be they historical makes me want to bang six inch nails into fero-concreate with my forehead...

Clive RobinsonNovember 27, 2018 3:29 PM

@ Rach El,

Viewers will appreciate this.

In my dead tree cave I have a few magazines and journals in amongst the books ;-)

One of which has a front cover with a picture of "Le Grande K" in it's multiple bell jars on the middle shelf of it's safe/vault.

In the same journal is a history of Bryan Kibble and his coaxial watt balance. I briefly met him in the 80's when zooming around NPL Teddington getting under peoples feet and making my presence felt in slightly disruptive but chearfully irrepressible ways[1].

Any way it turns out there is a PDF copy that can be downloaded,

https://www.iop.org/activity/groups/subject/hp/newsletter/file_69250.pdf

[1] Without going into details it's why I know Tim Berners-Lee was not the inventor of what we now call the WWW, NPL had it's own version long befor. But as @echo will be familiar with typical of the "British Establishment" they regarded it as "Oh bits and blather it'll never catch on"[2]...

[2] The same fate happened to the Cambridge Ring I worked on in the early half of the 1980's designing various equipment to connect HP-IB and IEEE interface test equipment to it to make "automated labs" which were kind of important to another Lab "doing important government work". Ironically over in Oxford where you realy would not wish to be in the lab when an experiment was under way as your dosimiter would have a meltdown in around the same time as it would take to fry your DNA...

echoNovember 27, 2018 4:49 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/27/labour-plan-to-give-customers-of-big-firms-vote-on-boardroom-pay

Labour plans to give customers of big firms vote on boardroom pay. Exclusive: measures could include paying execs only in cash and naming staff paid £150k+

I'm not sure what to make of this. There is fairly hard scientific and historical data which allows benchmarks to be derived about maximum pay and poverty and long term investment. If this scheme is simply a shift from one dogmatism to another dogmatism I'm not sure I can support the idea. Going from the UK being run by spivs to "workers councils" isn't my idea of fun.

I personally believe the UK has deeper psychological issues and lacks the insight to reform things whether it's excessive boardroom pay or binge drinking. In fact I believe the two are symptomatic of the same underlying poor governance issues.

echoNovember 27, 2018 5:29 PM

@clive

[2] Male chickens are roosters and usually are grown as meat birds and get the chop early on when weighing two to three pounds, only some lucky few will be kept to become cocks or roosters. The realy unlucky ones get castrated early on to grow faster and get called "capons". Meat birds both hens and cocks are named by weight as "boiler" "fryer" and "roaster" with young roosters sometimes calked "broilers". A female immature hen "pullet" that is grown for meat gets the chop around six to nine months is a "boiler" and may be an egg bird that has not started laying properly. The egg birds start irregularly with a mixture of small fairly usless eggs and large eggs often with double yolks around twenty to thirty weeks depending on age and breed. They are then called lays. I will spare you the biological details of double yolk eggs as it's no doubt "food time" as you are reading this. When a hen has stopped laying double yolkers they lay the largest of normal eggs usually six days a week depending on the breed. As they age first the size then the number of eggs decreases. About the time the furious layers have got down to only 150-180 eggs a year or four small eggs or three eggs a week, they are considered economicaly past it as egg birds and can be brought to market for others to "grow on" into meat birds or "garden birds" as combined layers pest control / pets. A hen will usually lay for upto five years thus can get to quite a size in the process. When they stop laying they are called "spent" or "biddies".

I believe you have just described the media/social media/blogsphere/academic paper cycle. I have been watching this for months and noticed there is a path stories take as each layer extracts propoganda/advertising wealth from the orginal source material. I'm a bit suspicious of some websites which appear reasonable on the surface but sneak in a feelgood prosperity pitch or alt-right leaning article every now and again. I'm unsure if this is editorially or algorithmically driven. Perhaps both so there is an underlying qausi-hidden index bias similar to search engines driving the attention cycle.

I even caught @Bruce leaping on the monitization cycle. I suspect this may be a seasonal thing too.

Actually, the investigation against Aaran Banks also involves a donation from the Templeton Foundation which was founded by Brad Templetons father. Brad sits on the board of the EFF along with @Bruce.

I have chewed Brad off for not getting social issues only technical issues. He of course disagreed but the sweetie did make a slight attempt a week or so later. @Bruce is getting a lot braver too. I've been trying for ages to join the dots on governance and human rights and security and made a right dogs breakfast of it. I've noticed the UK dynamic is althogether different. Any shift of position is usually done to build an empire or for personal reasons none of which empower communities or give credit it where its due not to mention being a a lot slower.

[1] Without going into details it's why I know Tim Berners-Lee was not the inventor of what we now call the WWW, NPL had it's own version long befor. But as @echo will be familiar with typical of the "British Establishment" they regarded it as "Oh bits and blather it'll never catch on"[2]...

Oh, tell me about it. If there's nothing worse than sleepy establishment it's establishment who are legends in their own minds. The UK consitition is orientated towards institition building which can encourage out of touch mentalities and cosy nests. A lack of can-do mentality really does sap the will. I daresay it's no coincidence that the latest studies indicate that if you are born in the UK in a poor household or poor area your life chances suffer accordingly over the course of your life even if you do make a breakhrough.

God, how depressing.

Clive RobinsonNovember 27, 2018 6:22 PM

@ echo,

I daresay it's no coincidence that the latest studies indicate that if you are born in the UK in a poor household or poor area your life chances suffer accordingly over the course of your life even if you do make a breakhrough.

I suspect it is due not to "lack of oportunity" but "the hidden hand of policy" by unelected entities within government.

It matters not if you call it an "old boys club" or "Stale White And Male" or "PC/NonPC" or even "Militant Feminism" it is deliberate descriminatory behaviour, primarily for self and peer benifit. Which is what you would expect when you call it what it realy is, which is the modern equivalent of tribalism.

Thus we need to ask the question of "Whilst we can take the human out of the tribe, can we take the tribalism out of the human?"...

It's something that has either not been tried --which is doubtful-- or it has sofar failed. Even the notion of "reverse discrimination" or quotas etc is actually discriminatory, thus people will take advantage of it inappropriately. Science has had problems similar to this with experiments involving subjects and experimenters with "intelligent agency". The solution was "blind trials" not just of the test subjects but the experimenters as well. The supposed gold standard is the randomized doubly blind trial. The question that arises is "Is there a way to leverage this to stop discrimination?"...

In theory I can see ways it might be done under a limited set of circumstances, but the ways are almost alien to the way we currently do things...

echoNovember 27, 2018 8:59 PM

@Clive

suspect it is due not to "lack of oportunity" but "the hidden hand of policy" by unelected entities within government.

It matters not if you call it an "old boys club" or "Stale White And Male" or "PC/NonPC" or even "Militant Feminism" it is deliberate descriminatory behaviour, primarily for self and peer benifit. Which is what you would expect when you call it what it realy is, which is the modern equivalent of tribalism.

Thus we need to ask the question of "Whilst we can take the human out of the tribe, can we take the tribalism out of the human?"...

I nearly made a comment about the "old boy network" earlier but then there is the issue of women who profit from this and collude. I've gathered 2-3 links this week on this and instititional brainwashing.

Double blind access to data is actually one thing I wanted to discuss with the last lawyer I tried before they threw a hissy fit. The things is these things are too subtle for none experts and by "expert" I don't just mean someone with a job title. I mean "expertise" which is something else. Oh, my. Does this get legal and other career job titles flying off the handle when I'm trying to patiently explain I am the technical expert and will be supplying the expertise.

In theory I can see ways it might be done under a limited set of circumstances, but the ways are almost alien to the way we currently do things...

It would appearto be so...

OmniquivalenceNovember 27, 2018 11:35 PM

"I nearly made a comment about the "old boy network" earlier"

Pretty sure you did, for all values of "earlier"

echoNovember 28, 2018 10:07 AM

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/22/the-app-destroying-irans-currency/

The App Destroying Iran’s Currency Iranians are using the messaging app Telegram to spread fake news about the rial—and make a profit for themselves.

I was going to post this in the propganda topic before @Bruce closed the comments.

This "fake news" by vested interests is having a negative effect on Iran's currency. This may have economic and political knock on effects including increasing unrest and raising tension.

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