Schneier on Security

Bruce must have been impressed! He actually said that 'wow' out loud...

:-)

Seems like basicly the same idea as pointing a laser beam to a window, but using RF instead. Sounds feasible, ofcourse. There's endless possibilities, atleast in theory, when transmitting either a laser beam or RF and then checking what reflects back.

What else uses those frequencies? Couldn't anyone detect it or listen in?

How does closing the blinds defeat a laser mic? The blinds are generally on the inside, and not sound-proof.

Still, a neat trick. Probably easy to pick up on with the right equipment though, and easy to jam.

Didn't russians offer a gift comprising a hollow metallic sphere to the US embassy in Moscow, then irradiate said sphere with a microwave beam to listen in with that same technique some twenty years ago ? With the embassy personnel frequently getting leukemia as a result...

@obd

http://www.spybusters.com/Great_Seal_Bug.html

Interesting. I guess NASA's search for intelligent life continues.

I've found it quite amusing lately to run interference with all the wireless signals I seem to be constantly bombarded with. It started with simple curiousity about stopping rogue WAPs from broadcasting WiFi into my private space...and I've found it quite trivial to disrupt other signals and render data useless, and not much harder to choose a signal you want to specifically target (let alone source).

I wonder if NASA's listening/cleaning is able to handle intentional signal tampering.

So Now we must ALL learn sign language!!!

I couldn't get the above link to the New Scientist to work, but this one seems to go to same story:
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8208

Davi,

Rogue WAPs? Do mean your neighbor's wireless networks? Are you are jamming your neighbor's wireless networks just because the signals are bothering you?

@ Jake

Actually, if it was just the neighbors I might go over for a hot cup of cocoa and discuss our signal to noise ratio.

But it's becoming quite clear to me that people on the street are sophisticated enough to broadcast bogus access point beacon frames into my internal airspace. This is quite a bit more disturbing that the usual null probe traffic because it means someone may be masquerading as a WAP. I've also seen a spike in suspicious associations, to the point where it looks like poorly-crafted attempts to saturate APs.

I guess you could say those activities bother the people who may potentially have their wireless network hijacked or disrupted by interference.

In terms of the NASA listening technology, I assume they haven't had to deal with hostile aliens trying to disrupt and jam their antennas (and if they did, they'd prob just say "Eureka!").

So they might turn on their microwave emitter and know how to interpret water-vapor and vibrations of things in room, etc. but what if some wiseguy is manipulating an internal microwave/PIR to generate noise to disrupt listening?

Incidentally I don't think drawing the curtains *inside* gets you much in terms of a laser detecting vibrations off a window. Outside shutters would do the trick, but if the window is exposed it can still be read like a resonant barrier.

@obd
The Russians did offer gifts that were good at reflecting microwaves. One of the better ones is where an American embassy was made with local bricks, and the bricks had small aluminun cones mixed in. The walls were the microphone. I'm pretty sure you could use a frequency hopping xmitter to cloak your self. If the reciever is pretty good and sensitive, or the room just happens to have good reflecting materials in it, you can beat frequency local radio stations against the reflected signal.

Oops. A response in the /. article mentioned the bricks thing.

Anyone know here I can get a "Cone of Silence" ala "Get Smart"?

@RvnPhnx
"So Now we must ALL learn sign language!!!"

lip-reading will do.

Que? How exactly is this news, or patentable? In "Spycatcher", Peter Wright discussed doing this in the 1950s! The first publicly known version, as someone noted above, was the Russian bug in the Great Seal, which used a specially tuned resonator, but once Wright had figured out how the basic idea worked the British quickly extended it to stuff like the sides of filing cabinets.

The one surprising thing to me is that these researchers claim that the human chest provides an adequate reflector. BTW, contrary to the NS summary, they do NOT claim that cloth provides an adequate reflector, and unless it was metallised I would think it would be just about the least useful material.

@David:
"what if some wiseguy is manipulating an internal microwave/PIR to generate noise to disrupt listening?"

The "obvious" precaution against that sort of thing is to spread the outgoing beam with a cryptographic spreading code. Similar techniques are already used (with Galois codes rather than cryptographic ones) to eliminate the effects of accidental/natural interference in interplanetary radar and similar weak signal microwave stuff. I would be surprised if cryptographic codes haven't already been used for military radar, as a counter-measure to jamming.

Other spread spectrum techniques could also be used, e.g. frequency hopping, chirping, and ultra-wideband. Come to think of it, UWB would be especially suited here.

"Incidentally I don't think drawing the curtains *inside* gets you much in terms of a laser detecting vibrations off a window."

True, but they may reduce the vibrations in the first place. Bear in mind that for most windows, the strongest impinging sounds are not internal but external (wind, traffic etc.), so anything which reduces the volume of interior noise just in front of the glass will probably make things quite tricky. And heavy drapes can absorb quite a lot of sound. Hanging very heavy drapes one to two inches in front of a wall is already a recommended method to counteract "spike mikes". However much more effective measures quickly come to mind.

@RvnPhnx
"So Now we must ALL learn sign language!!!"

Uh, no. It's already well known that it is possible to locate objects using a technique similar to radar through walls. One interesting use of that is when trying to organize an armed assault on a hostage situation.

The resolution I remember stated for that wasn't enough to read sign language but that was a while back.

@RvnPhnx
"So Now we must ALL learn sign language!!!"

On second thought, if you mean letter signing as opposed to gestural signing, I'd guess you still have some window of safety, still. People had looked like large blurry blobs in the demo image shown in the Internet article.

I don't find the original article, see
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39246
(no images).

And of course even the old standby of a Faraday-cage isn't going to work because the Faraday-cage itself will vibrate and reflect voice-modulated energy.

Methinks the best defense against this sort of technique is to have the ability to detect when your location is subject to high levels of 'unexpected' RF and to move elsewhere.

Hmmm... I wonder if the listening technique can also be used passively - by depending on _existing_ TV/radio transmitters to provide the RF 'illumination'. OK, the frequencies are different, which would pose a problem since the vibration-induced movement would be a _very_ small fraction of the wavelength of a BC-band signal - but given enough signal-processing... ?

Perhaps I am being obtuse, but why not just play a CD of innocuous conversation at normal speaking volume, sit close to your co-conspirator, and speak in a low voice? A CD (perhaps a book on CD?) and boombox would be a lot easier to explain to the secret police than a Faraday cage or other EM interference/attenuation device. A bit more portable, too...

@lawsea

Whispering while listening to loud Music, TV, etc. will probably make eavesdropping more difficult. That will work regardless which technique is used (Laser, RF, good old Bugs, ...).

But Music is predictable, an attacker can use the same CD to recover your whispering. So better add some random noise like letting the shower run.

We are coming up with a kevlar helmet with lead lining for when they develop a brain wave eavesdropping technology.

Better safe than sorry

Shoelover

A Faraday-cage should be sound-proof on the inside... or why not detect the frequency and modulate white noise onto it? Or the latest chart hits?
Does anyone know how hard it would be to detect these signals (even if they use frequency hopping etc.?)

Reminds me of what the Soviets did to bug the American Embassy in Moscow. They embedded a microwave reflector in the Great Seal in the conference room and bounced a microwave beam off it. Only now, the listener never has to enter the room to plant a device.

I think for my grandchildren, "privacy" will be nothing more than a quaint historical notion.

An interesting quote from the above mentioned spybusters.com article:

"The wife of the Italian ambassador in Moscow during 1927-30 said: 'Spying on the part of the authorities was so common as not even to be thought of as spying.'"

How quickly the world and the U.S. inparticular is moving in that direction.

"the best defense against this sort of technique is to have the ability to detect when your location is subject to high levels of 'unexpected' RF and to move elsewhere."

I suppose, but that's the 'blacklist' model, which is far more costly to maintain, with higher risk, than a 'whitelist'.

Moreover, as Roger pointed out, the laser method is susceptible to noise on both sides of the window. So if you attach something to the windows to make them vibrate irregularly (foreign language recording through a cheap diaphram taped to the window) you will probably raise the cost of effective laser eavesdropping beyond even sophisticated spies.

Microwaves seem to be defeatable in a similar fashion, through generating sufficient interference with the signals themselves, or the original sounds, to raise the bar/cost of deciphering.

Perhaps this technique was what these people were trying to prevent:

http://www.kcra.com/news/4512146/detail.htm

if you duct-tape a transistor radio to your window and tune it to a rap station, nobody will be able to figure out what people are saying in your office, whether they use lasers, rf, tempest scans, whatever.

I've been thinking about the issue of drawing curtains on the inside of the window as a tactic for defeating the LASER approach to eavesdropping.

The attack is usually used to bounce light off of a vibrating waterglass or similar surface isn't it? Closing suitable curtains stops the light getting there, so would be effective.

The second attack is to detect the vibrations in the window itself. If the curtains are thick enough they would absorb a large proportion of the sound before it got to the window. This would stop (limit) the reasonance of the window itself.

I like all of the counter measures suggested. I'm sure if you were planning something particularly nasty, or you are already a spy, then you might take such precautions. But most people "foolishly" believe that their conversations at home are private.

They should be private, of course. But the threat continues to grow. They can watch you with heat, hear you through walls, tap your phones and ISP, install keyloggers, take your picture whenever you are outside, etc. (Can they see you through those small holes or gaps in blinds and drapes without being on your property the way you can if you approach the window up close?)

It seems we have a war against liberty and a war against privacy. This escalation simply means everyone loses as we pay top tax dollars to outfit the police so they can snoop against us. After all, any technique that works for spys one day will become commonplace in the near future for law enforcement.

This seems like a movie plot to me. There are lots of patents for perpetual motion machines. Yes, the Great Seal device worked, but it was a well engineered resonator. The issues of signal to noise can't be "cleaned up" with "special secret sauce" software. Your "beam" of microwaves is going to reflect off lots of things. The reason lasers are better is that you can literally see what they are reflecting off and choose appropriate items to produce good signal response. You're going to receive the sum of all those signals, with no referents to null out individual sources. Engineers have been working problems like this in Sonar, Radar, radio mapping, for decades with remarkably few successes.

It's only a Wow if it works.

What about the concept of "sound proofing" a room? If you were to take sheets of, lets say, 18 gauge aluminum and cover the walls, floor and ceiling, the metal will do what it likes to do, absorb the energy of the microwaves, resulting in an induced current in the aluminum. The very reason that you dont nuke soup in a tin can.

@Harrold

> (Can they see you through those small holes or gaps in blinds
> and drapes without being on your property the way you can if
> you approach the window up close?)

If they can have a "large enough" camera mosaic (its size being dependent on their distance from you, the size of the slits in your blinds, and the spacing and number of those slits if they are periodic, as is usual), the answer is yes.

At least theoretically. I don't have any information on a real attack like this.

@RSaunders

The reason it might work better than you think is that (1) you only look for signals within a certain frequency band and (2) the microwaves can be modulated so that the reflected signal you are interested in may possibly be separable from other reflected signals with different time delays.

I get the feeling you're thinking about a microwave signal which is a pure, constant frequency. I'm not a big expert, but I don't think that that's what it's about --- see the comment by Roger, above...

I'm all for old fashioned microwave bugging within the walls of buldings and maintained by BT plc

Brain Technology is here. Does anybody have a reasonable way of reflecting a microwave laser beam away from your head?

Below is the beginning of the end for the Bush Administration.

May 28, 2006

To the Richard W. Wieking, Clerk of the Ninth Circuit Court:

My name is Robin Myers or as Frank Rich dubbed me in his April 24, 2005 New York Times article "A High-Tech Lynching in Prime Time," Dorothy of the Wizard of Oz. The article, though in code, pertains to a scandal and ongoing investigation by the FBI involving the highest levels of government. The FBI is oathed to President Bush until he reaches 28% in all public opinion polls and therefore cannot release evidence about my scandal which would surely bring the administration into the court system. I provided the legal basis for the FBI to enter the CIA where they found evidence that implicated the CIA in the Anthrax letter mailings. The FBI also has evidence that thermite explosives were laid in the World Trade Center Towers before 9/11 to ensure that Osama was successful in his attempt to down the buildings.

My scandal pertains to the loaning of CIA Top Secret brain technology for the purposes of harassment, torture, and assassination. This scandal marks the first time the federal government has been discovered assassinating a US citizen. Unfortunately, I have had to wait for one year and a half while the President falls in the polls. During this time I have experienced many forms of torture including the pain of gunshot and stabbing and had my heart stopped repeatedly for days on end and on at least one occasion, long enough for me to pass out. I continue to endure this harassment and torture while I wait for the president to reach 28% in the polls. I am depressed and have contemplated suicide. His fall seems far off and some have said that I may wait two more years.

I am currently staying in Buenos Aires , Argentina though I give my official residence as San Francisco, CA and this is where the crime originally occurred. I have endeavored to make Nestór Kirchner, President of Argentina aware of this scandal, as it affects his country. I am desperate to find a legal solution to my suffering before seeking other alternatives.

Please feel free to forward this note to all interested individuals.

Sincerely,

Robin Myers

Paraná 1054

Capital Federal , Argentina

C1018ADB

rpmyer@gmail.com

00 54 11 15 6294 6157

Cc: Dr. Néstor Kirchner

_________________

The following is my second letter to the Ninth Circuit Court in San Francisco. It includes a description of an individual in Richmond for you to investigate.

June 4, 2006

Richard W. Wieking

450 Golden Gate Ave.

San Francisco, CA 94102

415-522-2000

To Richard W. Wieking, Clerk of the Ninth Circuit Court:

The mafia FBI Criminal Division wishes to expose and eradicate was called the Octopus by fellow victim of brain-technology, Danny Casolaro. It is a mob of those with power and money that uses its predominance to circumvent justice and create world events. Many judges including some on the Supreme Court have participated in this underworld and it will be argued that the Supreme Court ruling that put George W. Bush in power was an act of the Octopus. A member of the Octopus, which potentially includes every member in the Republican Party (also demonstrably run off a system of power exchange), might use their power to protect another coconspirator within this ring.

I have several reasons to believe that Government division is part of this mafia and that my case would be better handled by criminal division:

The status of my case as Top Secret is no longer valid, as a lawyer in Argentinean President Néstor Kirchner's office approached me to tell me that the entire President's office discusses the Wizard of Oz Scandal openly. I do not feel my case falls entirely under FBI jurisdiction, because it is well known to the International Community. Cries of "National Security" and "Top Secret" should no longer intimidate the justice system as knowledge of my case has spread far and wide. I have reason to believe that the microwave signal directed at my head has been recorded.
FBI Government Division is complicit with my torture. Government division has done nothing to protect me from the microwave beams by satellite which activate my pain centers. A simple fix would be to clandestinely provide me with a non-mesh Faraday Cage.
"Electrocution" the night of Friday June 2, 2006, possibly served as retaliation for contacting the court. The FBI Government Division's complicity with this act substantiates my belief that they are using their position within our justice system to obstruct justice. It has occurred to me that FBI Government Division may consider my state as brain-technology hostage a useful bargaining tool to defend the Presidency.

In the hopes that some law enforcement official may apprehend the State Department analyst who administers my torture, I include the following description of him:

Gay Republican approximately 40 years old, dark curly/wavy hair, olive complexion, brown eyes, thinnish but not without substantial body-fat, possible Hungarian descent. He drives a black, older Mercedes. He owns his own house in Richmond, possibly the West End. I believe his "roommate" of a year ago also worked for the State Department, but would have moved out in approximately April of 2005 after finding out about his boyfriend's involvement in this scandal. He has worked with Elton Smith of the Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility to harass and defame me, though their original intent was murder.

He would be easily identified by law enforcement and I would be entirely willing to pick him out of a lineup. I identified this individual while in Richmond. During a supreme act of hubris, the individual drove by and glared at me. He had previously shown me his picture by brain-technology.

Should this be impossible, I would consider seeking asylum in Argentina or another country and would appreciate your assistance in finding a host country that could provide a non-mesh Faraday Cage to protect me from torture and harassment. I look forward to justice being served in the future, however, feel that it should not come at the cost of my human rights. Please share this letter with all members of FBI Government and Criminal Division.

Sincerely,

Robin Myers

Paraná 1054

Capital Federal, Argentina

C1018ADB

rpmyer@gmail.com

00 54 11 15 6294 6157

cc: Néstor Kirchner

Interesting, but how does one verify your not just a rich lunatic living in a self created world of grand delusions?