The NSA Has a Long-Lost Lecture by Adm. Grace Hopper

The NSA has a video recording of a 1982 lecture by Adm. Grace Hopper titled “Future Possibilities: Data, Hardware, Software, and People.” The agency is (so far) refusing to release it.

Basically, the recording is in an obscure video format. People at the NSA can’t easily watch it, so they can’t redact it. So they won’t do anything.

With digital obsolescence threatening many early technological formats, the dilemma surrounding Admiral Hopper’s lecture underscores the critical need for and challenge of digital preservation. This challenge transcends the confines of NSA’s operational scope. It is our shared obligation to safeguard such pivotal elements of our nation’s history, ensuring they remain within reach of future generations. While the stewardship of these recordings may extend beyond the NSA’s typical purview, they are undeniably a part of America’s national heritage.

Surely we can put pressure on them somehow.

EDITED TO ADD (8/27): It is published.

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Posted on July 12, 2024 at 7:04 AM • 39 Comments

Comments

Not Really Anonymous • July 12, 2024 7:48 AM

I’m still unhappy with her for at one point weighing in against public access to strong encryption. I haven’t been able to find a current reference to that comment. I don’t remember if it was in reference to the Davida lawsuit, the Bernstein lawsuit or the Clipper chip discussion.

Peter Knoppers • July 12, 2024 8:28 AM

I understand that NSA needs to do some special handling to view this obscure format, but they can do that, but maybe for not much longer.

When you can view something, you surely can copy it (with a smart phone, or any ordinary video camera). Preferably, using a tripod.

Not preserving this presentation is simply lazyness. A 42 year old video surely does not contain important information that still must be kept secret.

Wannabe Techguy • July 12, 2024 9:32 AM

Pressure on NSA? Good luck with that.
I am curious though what the video format is from 1982 that can’t be played.

yet another bruce • July 12, 2024 9:51 AM

There are many companies built around helping customers digitize old media. It is hard to imagine this is a difficult technical problem. Maybe NVIDIA would donate a tiny fraction of the money they make selling “Hopper” GPUs to fund the digitization.

cybershow • July 12, 2024 10:20 AM

Finally we know how to hide our tracks from the omnipotent National
Security Agency… just communicate using obscure video formats.

People at the NSA can’t easily watch it, so they can’t redact it. So
they won’t do anything.

This doesn’t ring true. Unless the legendary, unaparalleled technical
expertise of the agency is stumped by a Betamax cassette?

Surely we can put pressure on them somehow.

To upgrade to VHS?

Lorin Ricker • July 12, 2024 11:22 AM

In my early career years (1970-80s), I was fortunate to attend a guest lecture given by RADM Hopper (I think her rank at that time was either Commodore or Captain; I’d need to check a history book to recall that correctly), including a brief time “after class” to meet her and ask yet-another-question. What a wonderful lady, wit, spirit she was — and rather formidable in person. Truly and obviously one of technologies most important pioneers and teachers.

That a bunch of bureaucrats at a U.S. TLA-agency think that they should classify and withhold such an historically important document on the basis of “an obscure video format” is simply ludicrous, another deep-state overreach. A proposed solution? Have someone simply transcribe (manually, such services exist — or even AI?) this video into plain text — then the security weenies can REDACT those few phrases that she might have then-said which might still endanger “national security”. My own best guess is that there are from zero to three phrases/sentences which would rise to the level of “redactable”.

“Surely we can put pressure on them somehow.” If a public petition or letter-writing campaign emerges from this article, I’ll certainly contribute my signature or 2¢-worth.

Mike • July 12, 2024 11:42 AM

Simple, create a video communication network using that video format. They will decode it in no time.

Lorin Ricker • July 12, 2024 12:19 PM

In my early career years (1970-80s), I was fortunate to attend a guest lecture given by RADM Hopper (I think her rank at that time was either Commodore or Captain; I’d need to check a history book to recall that correctly), including a brief time “after class” to meet her and ask yet-another-question. What a wonderful lady, wit, spirit she was — and rather formidable in person. Truly and obviously one of technology’s most important pioneers and teachers.

That a bunch of bureaucrats at a U.S. TLA-agency think that they should classify and withhold such an historically important document on the basis of “an obscure video format” is simply ludicrous, another deep-state overreach. A proposed solution? Have someone simply transcribe (manually, such services exist — or even AI?) this video into plain text — then the security weenies can REDACT those few phrases that she might have then-said which might still endanger “national security”. My own best guess is that there are from zero to three phrases/sentences which would rise to the level of “redactable”.

“Surely we can put pressure on them somehow.” If a public petition or letter-writing campaign emerges from this article, I’ll certainly contribute my signature or 2¢-worth.

Jake Wildstrom • July 12, 2024 12:41 PM

This seems like a job which the Cryptologic Museum’s wide range of archival and preservation contacts should be able to solve within weeks, and certainly something well within their remit. By the sheer nature of the materials they handle, surely some of the curators have the necessary clearance to view and digitize this material.

XYZZY • July 12, 2024 3:02 PM

In perhaps the late 60s or early 70s I sat next to Adm. Hopper at dinner. She had her nanosecond wire with er at all times. She emphasized the importance of understating how things actually worked. What are the implications of the nanosecond wire? Today the field is rife with practitioners who do not “drill down” at all. She was an amazing women. What media could the NSA not be able to read? VHS tape? Sigh.

Z.Lozinski • July 12, 2024 9:19 PM

A thought. Has anyone thought to ask the librarian at the National Cryptologic Museum for assistance ? The NSA has done a very good job of declassifying and publishing significant historical documents (William Friedman’s papers, Cryptologic History of the United States) and also making David Kahn’s library available for research.

I know IBM used to have professional Betamax machines in the conference rooms in the Hursley lab in the 1980s/90s. I’m not sure anyone at the time thought about the preservation of the tapes that were produced.

Loss of data because of frequent data format changes is a new problem for archivists.

Clive Robinson • July 12, 2024 10:30 PM

@ folks,

The problem is not the tape as such.

Anyone remember the saga of Obama’s mobile phone?

It’s not the tape that is the problem it’s what’s on the tape, and it is kind of like Schrödinger’s sealed box with a cat in it.

If the cat is alive then it is a security threat in need of redaction

If however the cat is dead then it is not a security threat.

You don’t know because the box is sealed.

However opening the box requires you to use tools. But the box is in a classified place.

There are strict rules about what can and can not be taken out of or into a classified place.

That is the tools have to be certified to not somehow leak classified information outside of the classified place.

The equipment to read such 1 inch reel to reel tapes has not been made for very many years. I’m not sure but I suspect they might have been “End of Lifed” prior to EMC rules (poor man’s TEMPEST / EmSec). And I very much doubt they were ever tested to todays EmSec standards.

Whilst there is probably equipment still around that could read the tape the rules are such that,

1, The tape can not be taken out of the classified place.
2, The uncertified equipment can not be taken into the classified place.
3, The cost of certifing the equipment is beyond the available budget.

“So nary the twain shall meet”

Clive Robinson • July 12, 2024 11:06 PM

@ Peter Knoppers, ALL,

Re : Age does not weary security

“A 42 year old video surely does not contain important information that still must be kept secret.”

We know that certain documents that pre-date not just the NSA but WWII were still classified beyond reach for more than that period of time.

One such was a “Riverbank publications”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverbank_Publications

Authored in “the private sector” and payed for by a millionaire chasing “bible code” type stuff in the works of William Shakespeare. The author was William Friedman who later became quite important in the world of cryptography and embroiled in the Crypto AG scandals. Some of the publications content went back to work he did in 1917.

44 52 4D CO+2 • July 13, 2024 12:19 AM

https://museumofmagneticsoundrecording.org/ManufacturersAmpex.html

Here is a wealth of knowledge.

I can’t find any images of 1-inch 6-screw reels with a matching AMPEX logo.

Someone else should know more.

There could have been a custom solution to record video on older audio tapes. Maybe the tape is audio only, making it hard to ‘view’ the tape. Or maybe I just can’t find the tapes that archivists already know about?

ResearcherZero • July 13, 2024 2:15 AM

Transcribe it and save it to a pdf.

The next logical step would be to call in the CIA.

Winter • July 13, 2024 4:43 AM

With digital obsolescence threatening many early technological formats, the dilemma surrounding Admiral Hopper’s lecture underscores the critical need for and challenge of digital preservation. This challenge transcends the confines of NSA’s operational scope.

I always understood the work of Intelligence Agencies to be to remove information from the public. That is, they are tasked with destroying information. [1]

Erasing the work of Grace Hopper is clearly in line with this task.

[1] Knowledge is power, as they say. If the world has knowledge, they have power over the employers of an intelligence agency. Destroying that information is therefore naturally seen as the best option for their employers. Like a lawyer, when asked, will preferably advice not to do or say something, anything, an intelligence officer will prefer to advice to hide/destroy information.

denton scratch • July 13, 2024 7:44 AM

Did they even TRY opening it in VLC?

I assume you were joking; VLC doesn’t do analogue media.

Videotape recorded using a spinning record head, set at an angle to the direction of movement of the tape. That resulted in diagonal stripes on the tape. To decode it, you’d need to know:

  • The pitch of those stripes
  • The width of the stripes
  • How the video was encoded for recording (PAL? NTSC? Totally proprietary?)

I assume it’s B+W. The original article says that suitable VTRs exist, owned by collectors and museums, and could be borrowed.

Adrian Weeks • July 13, 2024 10:58 AM

Jacob, there’s no need to guess: it’s on “two AMPEX 1-inch open reel tapes” of unspecified type. The linked article has a photograph of the tape for part 1. “AMPEX 1-inch Video Tape Recorders (VTRs) were produced in three types: A, B and C, with Type C becoming the industry standard due to its quality and reliability.”

I like Mike’s idea. Ship a few such tapes to China or North Korea in clear envelopes, or send their flux over ham radio, and the NSA will suddenly gain the ability to decode them—but they probably won’t admit it. I don’t know how Matt expects to load it into VLC, though.

The best way to put pressure on the NSA for stuff like this would be to amend FOIA. Despite the sarcastic responses, NSA do actually claim to follow it, and people have gotten interesting stuff that way. What we need for the future is an obligation for government agencies to maintain records in a way people will be able to use later. That means no digital formats they’re not able to describe to the public; and for analog records, they’ll need a plan and funding to digitize them. Contact your lawmakers and ask them to do something about the problem of data being lost this way.

Wayne • July 13, 2024 11:44 AM

Pressure? Sounds like a job for Ron Wyden. Get a Senator asking questions, they might actually do something.

David in Toronto • July 13, 2024 1:45 PM

So dumb question, why not transfer this to more modern media for preservation? Then if there is still classified stuff you could edit it and make it more widely available.

I would presume there are other similar videos. And it doesn’t seem a huge project given the scale of the NSA.

David in Toronto • July 13, 2024 1:48 PM

@XYZZY Bingo! What can they not read?! Isn’t that exactly what their entire existence is about read stuff. SMH

videoguy • July 15, 2024 4:38 AM

@jm

That’s actually a 2-inch quadruplex machine. C-format ones were much more compact, and Nagra even made a ‘portable’ one, see ‘https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZh2vTX2d8g

I used both formats in the early years of my career. Recording then was all done using C format, but we often had to play old 2-inch tapes. I remember one occasion when I had to play a very old monochrome tape ‘on air’. Setting up the machine so it would actually produce a usable signal was quite a hassle. In the end the best results were obtained by setting the machine to SECAM (the French color TV system) mode.

Jesse Thompson • July 15, 2024 9:46 AM

@Clive Robinson about classified bubble

OK So what if they put the equipment they need into a faraday cage and bring that into the secure location?

Copy video to a friendlier digital format on a trusted medium inside the cage. Then remove the video from the cage, and destroy the decoding equipment in the cage prior to bringing cage and it’s contained detritus out of the secure location.

Faraday cage ought to be proof against any exfiltrating RF signals making it out of the secured location. Destroying the decoding gear inside of the cage before leaving the location ought to protect against any possible memory-based automated exfiltration.

Ultimately this procedure might be novel enough to strain the budget of “what did nice lady say in a speech 40 years ago”, but the real take home is “some day you’ll have a high value enough piece of classified data to decode, so let this be a practice session to work out the kinks and smooth down the costs of keeping such a process secure in case it becomes a more time sensitive issue for other media in the future”.

I don’t even do that much security work but I’ve faced enough “it has to be done right now and doing it securely can’t fit budget and/or timeline” snags in my career to know when to use trial runs to be prepared in advance.

JonKnowsNothing • July 16, 2024 3:10 AM

The USA has a significant technical storage systems with all equipment in archives in Colorado inside the Cheyenne Mountain complex. This area gets renamed periodically as fashion changes.

Within some part of the tunnels are the full archives and backup to all major USA systems: US banking, stock market and other items determined to be National Resources are kept there. These systems are ready to be on-line in short notice. The idea was if someone dropped a nuke at the NY Stock Exchange they could continue running remotely.

Along with all the current up-to-date stuff is the requirement to maintain all the old stuff in storage. All those punch cards, punch tape, R2R tapes, floppies of every variety all there and the equipment to RW is maintained there too.

They certainly have a machine that can read this tape. However, they may not want to use it for any number of national security reasons.

44 52 4D CO+2 • July 16, 2024 8:31 PM

@videoguy

The reel on the right side in that video does look like a 6-screw with a matching logo!

More like (the b-side?) “Part # 2” from the document.

I would be surprised if they didn’t crop those images for a reason

Who? • July 17, 2024 7:10 AM

@ Jacob Brodsky, Wannabe Techguy

The “obscure video format” is not really a “video format” but an obscure video media: an 1-inch type-C video tape reel.

This video storage media was introduced by Sony and Ampex in 1976; a decade later it was mostly abandoned. As short-lived and obscure as a DVI connector, I guess.

@ cybershow

I completely disagree with you, moving from Betamax to VHS can hardly qualify as an “upgrade”. VHS has much worse quality and technical specs, but it was the market’s choice for some reason. 😉

Tatütata • July 19, 2024 4:27 PM

Apparently the NSA doesn’t employ the best and the brightest. Or it could boil down to a budget issue. Or maybe the camera recorded the faces of certain people in the assistance.

Wouldn’t the National Archives be equipped on both the technical and security aspects? That would involve two agencies talking to each other. Oh the horror!!!!

As a kid I played a lot with a one inch VTR made by IVC bought with the content of a piggy bank from government surplus. It needed a lot of adjustments for which I was not really skilled or had the equipment for, but I still managed to record and reproduce video. You should be able to get the sound track even from a worn out machine.

Jon (a different Jon) • July 24, 2024 12:39 AM

How to apply pressure on the NSA? Cut their budget.

But of course every representative and senator will receive a nice visit from a well-dressed gentleman who will remind them of a few childhood blunders, and wonder out loud if they really want them made public.

Furthermore, they’ll also remind them that if such blunders did not occur, they could be cheerily invented.

Oh, so you want to vote against that funding amendment, pal? You sure about that?

J.

JonKnowsNothing • July 25, 2024 2:35 AM

@ Jon (a different Jon)

re: How to apply pressure on the NSA? Cut their budget.

USA

There are a number of parts of what is termed US Budget. Some of these parts have different rules or requirements. This is the “public” face of the Budget and is subject to the to and fro of Congressional Public Debate.

There is another section of the US Budget called “the Black Budget”. This is a hidden funding mechanism, primarily targeted for “National Defense” but it is known to have a lot more “keep it out of the public sphere” projects.

We cannot really cut the NSA budget as all the 3Ls and the 20+ related Government Law Enforcement and Military Policing agencies get funding from the Black Budget too.

The pressure is exerted during the “approval” process in each committee, which has to vote on alterations or additions before these can be rolled into the Big Budget. The committees are stacked with appointed Congress Persons and Senators who all run on the “Law and Order” platform. They are not going to suddenly go retrograde and decide to un-fund them.

  • 25+ years of Gitmo

Do you remember anything at all about Gitmo? The prison is not “free of cost”; the military governors are not “free of salary”; the buildings maybe be falling down but the troops are not bivouacking in the mud there. The legal farce continues and the lawyers get paid no matter which side of the proceedings they are assigned to.

We cannot even de-fund this White Elephant.

Winter • August 29, 2024 2:27 AM

@D O Recognition

The lecture has been released by the NSA

I watched them. That is one remarkable person.

My thoughts were just that’s the spirit!.

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