Friday Squid Blogging: Newfoundland Giant Squid Sculpture

In 1878, a 55-foot-long giant squid washed up on the shores of Glover’s Harbour, Newfoundland. It’s the largest giant squid ever recorded—although scientists now think that the size was an exaggeration or the result of postmortem stretching—and there’s a full-sized statue of it near the beach where it was found.

As usual, you can also use this squid post to talk about the security stories in the news that I haven’t covered.

Read my blog posting guidelines here.

Posted on November 4, 2022 at 4:01 PM115 Comments


&ers November 4, 2022 4:53 PM

@Clive @SpaceLifeForm @ALL



JonKnowsNothing November 4, 2022 6:43 PM


re: A Weird AU-USA-China Threesome story

A small MSM article on the arrest of an Australian Citizen, in Australia, by Australia on the request of the USA.

The person was a former USA Citizen, US Marine, Fighter Pilot who moved to Australia and became an Australian Citizen. Per the report, the person is no longer a US Citizen. (1)

The person had a small business giving instruction & pilot training for airline corporations.

The person had a training contract with a commercial airline in China and went there a number of times as part of the contract.

On their most recent return, the person was arrested. Extradition to the USA is being sought by US Authorities (unnamed ones).

Charges are unknown, arrest reason is unknown, accusations are unknown, Legal Advice and access is restricted or impaired. Person is being moved to maximum security prison.


1) The enforcement of USA Citizenship rules varies, and technically the USA does not recognize dual citizenship but may turn a blind-eye to them (see Prince H & Megan). The only official way is to renounce the citizenship (see F-PM Boris Johnson nee in USA).

Search Terms

Australian citizen
Daniel Duggan
retired military pilots
Washington’s request

ht tps://www.theguardian.c om/australia-news/2022/nov/04/former-us-marines-pilot-arrested-in-australia-after-returning-from-china-will-fight-extradition

(url fractured)

fib November 4, 2022 7:17 PM

@ All

Re: Social media

I begin to doubt my judgment when I realize that the eminent affiliation of this prestigious blog shows no signs of being alarmed by the multifaceted worldwide[0] outbreak of what in not so distant times would have been called ‘mass hysteria’, induced by social media.

It is truly frightening to watch the fragmentation of the ego of so any individuals on such a vast scale. Without intending — or being able — to quote language philosophers, psychologists, psychoanalysts, it is evident to me that the maximalist exposure of the individual the way that it is practiced nowadays induces not well understood — if understood at all — changes in the personality that are potentiated by the network effect in a vicious contagiousness. It’s almost like The Mule[1] doing his tricks.

Something tells me that extraordinary legal/constitutional measures might be needed at some point to contain the problem. This is disruptive on a higher order.

So why is everybody so cool about it — could it be that the covidian isolation also changed my perception of reality towards a heightened sense of alarm? Should I go out more?

[0] Although some regions be more affected than others

[1] ‘

“…possesses the ability to sense and manipulate the emotions of others, usually creating fear and/or total devotion within his victims.”

SpaceLifeForm November 4, 2022 10:08 PM

@ fib

Re: Social media

I’ve been alarmed about this problem for many years. If someone I know mentions Facebook, I used to try to explain, but usually little success. A few stopped. If they mention FOX, I walk away as it is a waste of my time to explain, and I do not want to hear their nonsense. They have become brainwashed, and they do not know how to escape their echo chamber.

It is impossible to help an insane person that believes they are sane.

They will come up with some dumb idea, and then if you disagree, they start attacking you. It is just not worth it.

Truth Thermocline


JonKnowsNothing November 4, 2022 10:36 PM

@fib @All

re: fragmentation of the ego of so any individuals on such a vast scale


One of the side effects of email was the ability to say what you really thought and hit the ENTER key and have it land on the desk of your boss. Often it wasn’t a nice email.

At the time, it was recognized that (distance == anonymity) even though you were not anonymous. Meaning, things you would never have previously said face to face was now being transmitted due to lack of self-group interaction restraint. The governor was gone on behavior and lots of nasty emails got sent.

It was such a problem that some email engines had a wait-hold threshold with a “are you sure?” modal box just to prevent an early permanent job exit.

So the self-defined social boundary was broken by email. It became a common experience.

Social Media, using more advanced psychological methods, removed more of our sense of group behavior, group decorum and social interactions.

So now we have entire generations who have no self-limiting control. They have no mechanisms internally to regulate better social interactions. It all flows into ME ME ME MY MY MY.

There are lots of woes in the world, lots of injustices, lots of difficulties but we have now evolved into (Many to Many to One) interaction. Where only One view ranks in the hierarchy of views: ones personal view.

It’s manifested as anger, despair, turmoil, depression and results in behaviors that have negative legal consequences that are below the level of direct consciousness.

No laws can adjust this because it’s now part of our collective psyche. Laws might restrict some business practices but our technology thrives on Instant ME ME ME MY MY MY.


It maybe lamentable about Elon+Twitter but I don’t use that service, I don’t read it, I don’t have any interactions with it and I have no interest in the opinions of any one using it.

The people who are using it, and posting to it, and living on the emotional roller-coaster of Stars, Points, Ratings are significantly impacted. They haven’t any ability to function without something similar.

They aren’t interested in functioning without it either.

lurker November 4, 2022 11:00 PM


Before Twitter presumably those not interested in functioning without it wouldn’t have even made grade as ostlers or wainwrights¶. Yet society seems to need? tolerate? that bottom layer.

¶ The current owner of Twitter is a latter day wainwright.

Clive Robinson November 5, 2022 12:32 AM

@ ALL,

USENIX killed LISA after 35 Years

Re : LISA Remembered.

Some of you are already that USENIX has killed off the “Large Installation System Administration” Conference due to the fact the Conference has effectively made the need for it obsolete.

Well has wrote a piece remembering LISA from it’s early days,

It kind of catalogs the changes in computing, from a time when LANs were “rings” and physically they were made with cables as thick as your thumb and with a “bend radius” about the same as the radius of a car wheel. As for WAN’s they came via your very unfriendly “Telcos” via “leased lines” that cost almost as much to rent each and every year as they actually cost the telco to put in…

Well those systems are all gone now and even Telco’s don’t supply “Plain Old Telephone Systems”(POTS) except to those “the law requires” them to do. With what was once called “the last mile” is often just a few yards to a pedistal in a city or urban residential street, where that old analog line becomes VoIP on DSL or similar joining fiber backbones that are entirely digital and in many cases are TCP/IP based on the lower “physical layers”.

Back when the conferance started 32bit and above CPU’s were still in rack cases and “made of chips” rather than “being chips” and The likes of “bit slice ALU’s” and ECL logic were still considered bleeding edge. So knowing how to use a “wire wrap gun” was still a skill needed by those writing code at the lowest level basically for register to “Register Transfer Logic”(RTL) on which the ROMS that “Microcode” resided in were the next layer up, to give you the next layer via the ISA “machine code” that systems programers wrote assembler for the base of the OS in).

As most will now know, in some ways we are going backwards. General purpose CPU’s fast as they are, are just too darn slow… So the “Programable Array Logic”(PAL) we used to do the glue on RTL ROM interfacing has gone from just a few gates and a fuse map, to “Field Programable Gate Arrays”(FPGAs) of hundreds of thousands of gates, built into the CPU as a co-processor in which software algorithms become dedicated logic circuits giving a fifty to five hundred times speed increase.

But as for the then much denegrated “System Administration” it’s become a real career path, which is not as under valued as it was (trust me you could earn more as a brick layer or day labourer back then). It’s why I was a “Communications Network and Systems Design Engineer” doing a bit of “SysAdmin” on the side to keep the disparat CAD/CAM and BOM DB’s running coherently.

Back in the very early 1990’s I was probably one of the very few people in the UK to “buy” my own personal Unix systems and have them networked up, they were “Zenix” on 286 and “SCO” on 386 (and yes, like nearly every small businesse I had iffy-licence handling). It was a time when Microsoft appeared to be going down for the second time against GEM with Windows 2… Businesses ran on MS-DOS and WordPerfect on the desktop and had shared drives and printing centralised over “Cheaper-Net” to Novel File Servers (the earliest of which were based on a Motorola 68K CPU not Intel).

My reason was that as a Comms Design Engineer more and more of what I did had become computerized, and PC’s were pushing out “Big-Iron and serial terminals” as such nobody was responsible for ensuring things “worked” and more importantly “stayed working”. The final realisation was when the company I worked for got broken into and all the desktop computers got stollen. Sales, Marketing, Managment, Human Resources were paralized and production crippled, with more than fifty people unable to work. Engineering with thirty people had lost ten computers with all the current and past designs on. In most places it would have been the end of the organisation. However I’d annoyed most of the engineers by ensuring the computers were not their personal toys and had made backups and much else that I’d pursuaded the engineering manager to have a fire proof safe for, due to an earlier incident at one of our customers (who did go belly up over a computer theft and fire the criminals had started).

We had all our monitors keyboards and tracker-balls and graphics tablets as just the computer boxes had been taken. But we were not going to get them replaced for quite some time… I told the engineering manager I would loan the company five computers and some terminals to get things back up again untill the new computers arived… So my home systems running Unix came in… “But we run on DOS” was the first thing said… So I showed them the joys of DOS-Merge, and why X-Windows terminals ment we could use just five computers and have not ten but twelve people working. So a day to install software create user accounts and get the network cabling sorted out and two half days for training and Engineering was back up and running. It took nearly three weeks for the rest of the company to get back to the ability to work but it was months before some data got typed back in. Needless to say things changed and the Maniging Director insisted on changes… Which ment we needed some one to run the systems… So I got another job title added to the three I’d already got… It was not long after that with also doing a Master of Science degree and trying to move it up to a PhD that I changed jobs as a “Systems and Network Senior Engineer” where this time systems ment “computers” not “radio / Telemetry” and network ment “LAN/WAN” not large “radio communications and telecommunications”.

From then on USENEX and it’s conferences including LISA became just another part of what we now call “Proffessional Development” and so my personal “hamster wheel not just turned but spun”…

Needless to say I don’t do the “System Administration” thing it’s still just “a side thing” just another “part of the job” as they say. I don’t even “lead” or “Direct” much, I do “consult” on the “big picture” as it were and put on my “fire helmet” where required, to sort out those directors, managers, leaders, and hopefull rescue the poor souls that “work the coalface” of Systems Administration.

Oh the fun thing in the UK “retirment” is nolonger compulsory, and it looks like bo one will be able to afford to either with the current state of the world. So I guess I’m probably not going to . stop “Proffessional Development” even as they nail the lid down[1]…

I could recomend the works of Aldous Huxley but a couple of his observations we realy all should take not just on board but action,

1, “One believes things because one has been conditioned to believe them.”


“The propagandist’s purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human.”

So remember,

“Unlike the masses, intellectuals have a taste for rationality and interest in facts. Their critical habit of mind makes them resistant to the kind of propaganda that works so well on the majority.”

An “intellectual” these days is some one who is serious about “Proffessional Development” and “Life Long Learning” in many fields of endevor, so they can become the new “Renaissance Man/Woman” and move the whole of mankind forward not narrow parts of it.

2, “The charm of history and its enigmatic lesson consist in the fact that, from age to age, nothing changes and yet everything is completely different.”

That is like a wheel it turns and what was old is new again. Because,

“That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.”

And something I point out from time to time, and I shall again in original form,

“What is the stuff of mankind, what can he do to rise, only honest history tells, and guides the journey.”

[1] Not that I’ll probably get a coffin… the way things are going I could end up “a shadow on the wall” near instantly cremated by some Superpower turning London into “Ash City” just to make a point… Anyone need any EMP advise? I can do discount rates 😉

nemo November 5, 2022 12:47 AM


wouldn’t have even made grade as ostlers

Now then, my great-grandad was an ostler – nowt wrong with ostlers 🙂

Any, joking aside, ostlers were at least as important to the economy as mechanics are today . . .

Clive Robinson November 5, 2022 2:07 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm, ALL,

Decline of Social Media Old Guard.

I’ve been saying for a while now that traditional social media organisations have started failing.

I think it safe to say that Twitter’s “Pump and Dump” has ended, and the cold light of day is heading their way with the sort of inevitability history paints of the Titanic. Will a new helm on the hand change the course sufficiently, or will it still be “best speed” untill the big crunch?

People might also remember a year ago Facebook became Meta, possibly to try to push the “pecker-wrecker” that Metaverse all to predictably became (anyone remember SecondLife?). They peeked at around a trillion dollar valuation and are now worth what barely a quater of that, even though they are selling way more advertising (much to every users anoyance just as YouTube are doing and so loosing users “to the Chinese thing” Tic Tok is). But that add revenue is unsurprisingly falling faster and further than a lead kipper in the Mariana Trench[1]. It does not even look like there is any “meta-tail-spin” just the smoke plume of a tail on fire, probably from that blockchain nonsense attached to Metaverse.

Of course part of the damage to Meta was Apple’s change in privacy policy that was going to make certain things such as “adds” extreamly difficult for Meta.

But Meta are not doing themselves any favours. Metaverse is predicated on two things,

1, Virtual Reality will be soon.
2, Businesses will take up VR as soon.

The downturn in the world economy as well as the still supply issues on chips means Meta’s VR headset is well over priced for the sinking market.

Worse Meta are pushing slightly shy of $10billion a year into Metaverse and will continue to do so for several years to come…

With no sign of a “killer app” for Metaverse, especially not for business where is $1500 for the headset going to be found? Short answer quick is “it’s not”

As I’ve said before I don’t use social media and I only occasionaly use on other peoples systems You-Tube. They have visably gone “add mad” and the quality of the adds is at best sad… So I’m guessing Google/Alphabet are seeing significantly falling ad revenue as well.

I predict ad revenue will fall for quite some time, half a decade would not surprise me. In fact “the bubble bursting” fairly soon would not surprise me at all. After all Online Advertising is in effect a “Con-Game” with 99% of the money disapearing in agencies and the like, those who still have a marketing budget are starting to question where they will spend it…

Oh and of course the “poor man’s painkiller” of choice has always been alcohol. So now things are getting painfull those OnLine Subscription services are not looking good. In the US people pay ridiculous amounts of money for cable television… For those that can put up an antenna “free2view” Over The Air TV is likely to cost them less than a month or two of the cheapest subscriptions…

The next question is thus “What of Netflicks etc?”

I’ll let others answer that but, longer working hours for less pay and way higher food prices is going to have an effect.

[1] There is something called the principle of S-Curves that tells you when it’s time to stop what you are doing and do something else whilst you still have time to jump off the S-curve you are on and it becomes terminal.

ResearcherZero November 5, 2022 2:33 AM

@fib @JonKnowsNothing @Clive Robinson

Teams devoted to combating election misinformation gutted.

“For Musk to back away from Twitter’s positive efforts to pre-bunk or debunk false claims, just days before a major election, is simply terrible timing.”

entire Human Rights division cut

“Take a tech platform that collects massive amounts of user data, combine it with what appears to be an incredibly weak security infrastructure and infuse it with foreign state actors with an agenda, and you’ve got a recipe for disaster.”

The Internal Audits:

Consistently “behind the curve” in responding to misinformation.

Overwhelmed by well-orchestrated disinformation campaigns and short on engineering tools and human firepower.

A head count chart said Site Integrity had just two full-time people working on misinformation in 2021, and four working full-time to counter foreign influence operations from operatives based in places like Iran, Russia and China.

Winter November 5, 2022 6:36 AM

One-Time Programs

Our work is about realizing a cryptographic primitive called the One-Time Program (OTP). This is a specific kind of cryptographically obfuscated computer program — that is, a program that is “encrypted” but that you can mail (literally) to someone who can run it on any untrusted computer, using input that the executing party provides. This ability to send “secure, unhackable” software to people is all by itself of a holy grail of cryptography, since it would solve so many problems both theoretical and practical. One-time programs extend these ideas with a specific property that is foreshadowed by the name: the executing computer can only run a OTP once.

Matthew Green


It is quite complex, I am still mentally chewing on it. It requires a hardware token whose main/only requirement is that it has a one time memory function. For what I understand, the OTP requires an input dependent key for its obfuscated circuit to run. The one-time-memory generates that key for the input and securely wipes all information to generate a second key for a different input.

But maybe I am still confused about what Matthew Green has concocted.

Winter November 5, 2022 7:20 AM


If they mention FOX, I walk away as it is a waste of my time to explain, and I do not want to hear their nonsense.

I found out by trial and error to start going down memory lane about the Pravda and the Izvestia. It worked wonders with older people, boomers. How Fox is Pravda (=Truth in Russia) at the same level. And how “reporting” in Fox remunded me so much of the old Pravda. And how could a periodical called “Truth” could be wrong.

Suddenly, it is not me that has to argue, but they start fuming that they are the real truth not those ***** commies.

After which I can start about their point that all MSM are lefties, so Fox too.

Things go downward from then on.

Sadly, these people stop mentioning Fox to me.

Clive Robinson November 5, 2022 8:26 AM

@ Anders, SpaceLifeForm,

Re : US Delta C3 Program Hacked by Russian related cyber criminals.

Does the expression “Colour me unsurprised” have the same meaning for you and your respective countries citizans that it does for mine in the UK?

Lets be honest about what Delta is, it’s a distributed database, with a presentation front end for making command and control decisions based on raw intelligence. But importantly it’s highly dependent on two things,

1, Commodity computing.
2, High bandwidth communications.

Thus hackability and access come built in at all parts and levels[1].

As quoted above by @ResearcherZero from a tweet about Twitter, is the encapsulation of the problem of many a platform built on commodity computing with access to others,


blockquote>“Take a tech platform that collects massive amounts of user data, combine it with what appears to be an incredibly weak security infrastructure and infuse it with foreign state actors with an agenda, and you’ve got a recipe for disaster.””



That describes the Delta Platform as well as it does nearly all “high tech” and low tech systems used in an adverserial situation / environment “Also Known As”(AKA) “real life”…

We should “know and expect” it thus take design choices[1] using defendable methods[2] to achive our goals. But even With all that in place I would still not “trust it”.

Why because I know due to “entropy” all things decay one way or another. I know I can break it as can anyone else with a “sufficiency” of just two things,

1, Knowledge.
2, Access.

Thus the fundemental tools that give an opponent hackability at all parts and levels. Stop either in sufficient time and you can defend your systems. Remember that “Knowledge” comes from “information” and “time” thus giving neither should also be part of any defence.

Importantly remember “knowledge” is also accumulating, thus the result of a few minor attacks can provide as much knowledge as a major attack. Worse the actuall time differences to you being owned are actually minimal because the attacker spends most of their time on “analysis”.

Thus “detect and repulse” fast and hard are of importance, but also you have to take a dynamic defence response, effectively,

“Never give an opponent the same target twice.”

That is by various forms of reconfiguration make any knowledge gained by an attacker of minimal or no use. This is a subject that derives from the concept of “Asymetric Warfare” and needs rather more than one or two blog posts to talk about. But it is based in proven “physical security” part of which is what gets derided as “security by obscurity” in ICTsec. As a security method “obscurity” is plain and simple a form of delaying or “tar-pit” tactic by “witholding knowledge from the opponent”. As such it is a “one time method” that has to be changed both frequently and easily to remain effective.

Designing systems around,

“Security by Defendable Dynamic obscurity”

Will now due to “the lessons of war” become a much more prevelant activity. It’s part of what was behind my starting my “Castle-v-Prison” research years back (discussions of which are up on this blog). It’s over due by a long time, mainly by mantras caused by smugness and complacency in ICTsec…

As the saying goes of both Kama and Hubris “they are a 13itch”.

[1] I’ve mentioned from time to time I have commodity computing that goes back to the 1970’s still being actively used (and in several cases prefere it). Further that the more modern stuff from the 1980’s is “networked”. I know this is a recipe for a secirity disaster and have mentioned so again repeatedly. I also say that as I can not secure it from “manufacturers input” such as patches, as that nolonger exists, therefore that I have to “mitigate” and this is by “segregation”[2].

[2] In my case the “segregation” I’ve developed is quite a bit more than either run of the mill and known to be very insecure firewalls, data diodes etc, and also known to be broken air-gapping. The last of which I broke years ago, when looking at “how to steal an election via commodity computing based voting machines”. Which is why I’ve promoted “Energy Gapping” ever since. I also less frequently promote other technnologies that have taken some of the better dependable parts of the other now well broken technologies and junk the less defendable parts and add a few security improvments. These I’ve used to build “enumerating and controled gap crossing” that emphasize on “simplicity” and very much “reduced complexity” and importantly “store, analyze, and forward” methodology to reduce and make extrodinarily difficult time, power, sequence, volume based “side channels” be they covert, overt, deliberate or accidental.

Clive Robinson November 5, 2022 12:28 PM

@ Winter,

Re : “One Time Program” (OTPr)[1]

It’s not a new idea, I’ve mentioned the basics behind such things long before in the earlist days of this blog with the problem of,

“Hiding keys in RAM”

Against hardware capture attacks (and later liquid nitrogen freezing of DRAM). It’s a problem I had researched and found several solutions for back in the 1990’s. The method I described on this blog for simplicity was via “Data Shadows” that continuously evolve[2], so that what you do to get the key this time will not work again (look up “snakes eating their tails”, “Ouroboros”, oh and “drinking petrol”).

As with all such things the ultimate problem to solve boils down to the “Root of Trust”(RoT) / “Shared Secret” and how you can use it just once but also nobody else can again… Matthew Green’s colleagues have gone down a “hardware” route, which I’ve not been keen on since my being responsable for using SMS on Mobile phones as a secure side channel back in the 1990’s (we know how that went… something that still haunts me). Which is why I know it can be done without using a hardware approach. For instance your stream generator needs to have certain non reversable properties in my prototype I used a varient on BBS, and the counter that provides the offset needs to be a bit more than a counter, it too needs a one way functionality to it).

This RoT issue is not an easy problem to solve to see why think about “copies of copies” (Matthew mentions it in a way that’s overly complex to get the fundemental idea).

I email you the program, so you need to ask,

“Where is the “root of trust?”

That “shared secret” that enables you to run the program. How can that be protected from being copied yet be,

“Somehow be securely got to you?”

Tough problem to solve…

Matthew’s colleges go down that hardware rabbit hole, that does not actually solve the RoT problem, just moves it, much as real “One Time Pads”(OTPs) do.

As for the logic circuit I suspect many peoples brains will “flip bits” trying to understand it. The thing you have to remember is that all such circuits have their state built in just like Block Cipher hardware. So they can in theory / concept / undetstanding be replaced with a simple lookup table (though it might need many more atoms than there are in the Universe 😉

It’s an interesting idea, but one I suspect won’t go anywhere… Once upon a time back in the long dim distant past, there were logic circuits called “Content Addressable Memory”(CAM) that in certain circumstances were ideal circuits for data related activities. One such is you did not have to sequentially step through every memory address doing compares on it’s contents. I used a varient of CAM in image processing for medical imaging back in the 1980’s. The thing is whilst CAM does get put in some chips today, they are way way to “application specific” to be made available otherwise. I’m hoping that “algorithms in FPGA’s directly built in as a CPU coprocessor will bring CAM back into less specific usage.

As an asside it’s a funny thing Matthew Green says,


blockquote>”This is a specific kind of cryptographically obfuscated computer program”

Look up this blog page to my comment to Anders and how I mentioned it was time for the mantra about “Security by Obscurity” to be dropped and “one time systems” for security to become main stream… I did not expect to have others talk about,

“Security by Defendable Dynamic obscurity”

So soon (please no jokes about birds feathers, or minds thinking alike, I can come up with enough of those myself).

[1] Yes I’ve added a little “r” to the name… The reason is the “Three Letter Acronym”(TLA) of “OTP” is now badly “overloaded” not just in the general sense but in very much in the domain of security especially using Crypto. This means that the usual,

“Context makes clear the TLA usage”

has been considerably weakened. Hence the little “r” as a sub script differentiator on the main TLA…

[2] A grossly over simplified idea is that you store the key as an extended form of “stream cipher”. Where one part of the computer say via an interput that is used to update the TRNG entropy pool, also updates the cipher stored in RAM that protects the key. To recover the key to use it you program would need to be able to generate the “stream cipher running key” at the right offsets. This could be done with the use of a “crypto counter” (see work of Adam Young with his acadrmic supervisor Moti Young, who I know reads this blog from time to time so as they both deserve the shout out 😉

Clive Robinson November 5, 2022 1:09 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm, ALL,

Re : Brave new boot world…

Lennart Pottering’s ideas are to put it bluntly,

“Dumer than a crap hole under a stump”

The idea behind them goes back to a battle between Google and Microsoft over net-pads a decade or so ago.

Google threatend Microsoft with every kind of legal hell untill the Universe froze over if Microsoft did what Apple do and Google kind of do, which is “lock out the user from hardware control”.

I don’t know how many people here run Android devices, but try writing your own SysAdmin style programs to fix broken application issues and you enter a world of hurt…

For instance one “you have to pay” Office Application on Android should be able to read PDF files… Well it won’t do it properly…

If the file is say XXX.PDF it’s not a problem to open after downloading. But say the same file is actually called XXX.PDF.Crowdsource or some such it refuses to open it. Go into it’s file handeling and whilst it will alow you to change the XXX.PDF part to whay ever you want, you can not get rid of that .Crowdsource on the end… However put the device on a USB lead to a PC then you can change all of the filename to your hearts content… And then if you chose to get rid of that .Crowdsource from the PC, the file works on the Android device exactly as you would expect it to.

So it’s a filename not filecontent issue… Now lets say you have a local scripting language on your Android device like Python… You write a simple script to enable you to change file names… Only it won’t work due to the way Google insists it has to have control of everything…

The reason is of course so Google makes lots of money via it’s app store, and thus developers Google never check correctly can put in all sorts of malicious PPI stealing in their Apps. Only to remove such bad apps if sufficient noise is made to make “bad news” for Google.

So Microsoft for whom I’m told Lennart works, is trying to get it’s version of “Owned by Google” / “Owned by Apple” in via the back door…

Frankly I find the whole “Owned by…” nonsense a throwback to the bad old Big-Iron days of forcibly “tied in users” paying a “Kings Ransom” to use the hardware they had paid for, in the way they wanted, rather than have the likes of IBM fissting them to get at the contents of their wallet…

Clive Robinson November 5, 2022 4:58 PM

@ MK, ALL,

Re : Lost employment.

“As a resident of Silicon Valley, I wonder where all the laid-off engineers will go.”

It’s nice to know that someone is at least thinking about them and expressing concern.

The US the politicians won’t admit it is very much into a recession and the trajectory is unlikely to chance upwards untill after the next presidential election…

So as “Silicon Valley” is not a cheap place to live these days, I suspect some will head out for other places, much further north and probably quite far east as well. Where their new income will be significantly reduced, but, it will be sufficient to meet their reduced circumstances.

Others will msybe get to replace those on work visas who are going to get kicked out due to the recession.

I’ve seen estimates of a 1/5-1/2 lay off of tech jobs as the add revenue tumbles, and “On-Line” can move anywhere the land is cheap, and employes can be herded in like the old coal miners of the 1800’s and iron workers of the 1900’s.

In effect many tech workers will be come the new “blue collar” level waged workers hanging around the top of the working class but not realy paid enough to have middle-class life styles. Because the tech bubble that is mainly froth on the faux society of social networking, paid for by add revenue will either burst or deflate, as there is no real economy to support it.

The same will apply to many other current middle-class “semi-professionals” who will find themselves down graded, into working class for political reasons.

For many “Cash-up and Dash-out” to where they can have a debt free no rent life style out of the US may be their best option. It’s no real secret that “Big Business” has “hollowed out the US” and that the US can nolonger support it’s budget deficits and the overly high standard of living expectations.

I don’t know if we will see a new 1930’s “Hoovervilles”[1] you see pictures of in places Central Park. I suspect if certain states current legislation is followed it will be a serious criminal offence with years of jail time in private high profit jails.

[1] These shanty town squats on what was regarded as public land got the name “Hoovervilles” after President Herbert Hoover who was at the time blamed for the economic crises that put so many in them. The reality was of course caused by what we would now call “Neo-Con Free Market idiocy” thus will they get named after the real instigators or their puppets in politics so much on the take… I guess as usual it will be not the victors but the survivors of the mess the Great American Dream has caused yet again who will write the history, but very few will get to read the truth of it…

Oh and in the short term for those on the US West coast and down south, that old joke about the last one out remembering to “turn out the lights”. Don’t worry, the lights won’t be on anyway because most will not be able to afford the cost. And there is a reason they are called “rolling blackouts” there’s nothing like creating a crissis and then demanding more money to “bank roll” a fix for it that just raise payments to preferential investors… Have a look at PEG’s behaviour and similar behaviour in Texas. Profit before maintainence, then stage manage a crisis and blaim the victims to raise income, especially from the poor and subsidies paid via taxation… As a business model you would have thought people would have realised by now they are being had, yet it still goes on…

SpaceLifeForm November 5, 2022 5:29 PM

@ fib, Clive, ALL

Free as in Beer? Or Free as in Freedom?

There has been no doubt since MS bought Github, that it was always an EEE strategy from Day One. Fascists can not abore Floss. It is unacceptable in their insane mind that others can think for themselves and write their own code and distribute it to others for Free.

As the insanity continues . . .


JonKnowsNothing November 5, 2022 5:45 PM

@ Clive, @ MK, ALL,

Re Lost employment: where all the laid-off engineers will go

RL Anecdote tl;dr

I went through an fair few blood baths in SV during my career and I can shed some insight on what happened to many co-workers.

A) Early termination meant best likelihood of finding another job as there were still jobs about even if some companies had hiring freezes.

A hiring freeze is for the run of the mill Engineers and Workers. High Price and Hi Vis VIPs can get brought on The Board or given a decent office and a titular fig leaf by friends of friends.

Being a chum of such a personage might be useful or helpful in getting pulled in on their coattails for their Fig Leaf project. This used to be called Don’t Burn Your Bridge Out The Door that morphed into Networking for Work.

B) Last out the door couldn’t find a job, not anywhere.

C) Financial Fallout was everywhere. Salaries were down significantly if you had a job. If you didn’t you lost everything you owned or thought you owned. Houses, condos, savings, 401K, cars, plus eviction even if you relocated somewhere else.

Relocation especially if you are not solo, is expensive and people will stay until the locks get changed to keep their kids in school and hopefully the kids won’t learn about the move until the UHeaveIt Van is parked in front of the home with what’s left of the family possessions.

D) Re-training if you had the funds. Those that had sufficient funds went back to school and grad school and picked up a totally different profession. Law, Medical, Social Work etc. Sometimes it was a boon for the person, to get to do something they really preferred and other times it was desperation to have any income at all. Not that many other professions paid 6 digits.

E) Moving out of state or out of country. Moving by itself is expensive unless you are leaving everything behind, stored in the garage of a relative. The farther you go, the less you can take with you.

Some moved to other states and cities where Tech Glitter was still visible. As the F-PM of AU stated about a different social group: Companies were SPOILT for Choice .

There was a monthly “meat market” in SV at the time. Companies from all over, military or civilian, would get booths and hundred of people showed up with stacks of resumes. You stood in line until you got your turn at the front. You had @10-30 seconds to make an impression and hand your resume over. If for some reason, the halo effect kicked in, you got an immediate interview behind curtain #1. Then you might get an immediate offer or an invitation to visit the company manor. The majority of people wasted a lot of money on dead trees.

Those that could move out of the country had to be mindful of a number of gotchas when it comes to employment outside of your own country. Both by laws in the Lands of Vision and laws in the Land of Hunger. Sometimes, it worked out and often it didn’t. If you didn’t know all the laws about foreign workers and had all the right papers and all the right stamps on your visa and all the right status per The Home Office, you could find yourself locked out of your bank account, locked out of housing, locked out of work, locked out of recourse, locked out of support systems, subject to arrest and deportation with a No Re-Entry Code marked next to your name.

Sort of the same program we have in the USA for Foreign workers, but applied to an USA person with American Elitist View Point with disastrous consequences.

F) Some folks didn’t make it.

Clive Robinson November 5, 2022 6:13 PM

@ SLF,

Fascists can not abore Floss

I think you’ve had finger mistrike and ment “abide” 😉

Clive Robinson November 5, 2022 7:02 PM

@ Anders,

Yes I was aware of the Russian “personal computers” initially we had a good laugh about them.

However Russian programers became way better than most Western programmers. Because they learned to make the most of the slim resources they had, rather thsn just throw a couple of thousand dollars on an upgrade.

It’s funny you picked the volume of Byte you did… Have a look at page 416, that little almost “pocket computer” was one I helped design a bit of, and I still have two Psion Organizer II XP models and developer kits, with Comms adaptors unopened in their original packaging… I’ve no idea what they would be worth to a specialist collector, but being unused in unopened boxes would I guess make them very rare. Along with them I also have a bunch of “EPROM” chips you can use in them that are worth a lot due to the weight of gold in each one… On some of these ROMs I have a copy of PsionForth that I and another “enthusiast” ported across… Those were the days,

“When men were engineers, with 100watt soldering irons and scorched jeans from tip wiping”.

Yup the memory “brings tears to my eyes” just as that evil solder smoke used to do 😉

SpaceLifeForm November 5, 2022 7:08 PM

@ Clive, ALL

It was a deletion and appendation. 😉

Abhor or Abore. I should have said they do not find it cromulent.

Allow me to embiggen this.


English is always interesting no matter your location. I will abide your observation, which is perfectly cromulent.

SpaceLifeForm November 5, 2022 7:45 PM

@ fib, All

Thank you for your Brazil report. I expected that your response would be what I thought was the situation on the ground. Confirmation is always cromulent.

The trolls are back. Ignore them.

Likely has to do with this upcoming Tuesday in US. What happened in Brazil is what I call a ‘Good Sign’.

The Fascists are desperate at this point.

If they do not win, they will have no ‘Get out of Jail Free’ card.

The wheels of justice grind slow, but the fascists will not be in control of the game.

It is just a matter of time.

So, to anyone in the US that can vote, just, please vote. Don’t fall for what happened in 2016 when you were propagandized into thinking that Trump had no chance. Your vote counts.

&ers November 5, 2022 10:10 PM


Regarding Soviet Apple clones and Russian programmers,
this was back then a famous demo on Agat:


lurker November 5, 2022 10:28 PM

@JKN, All
OSINT provides the pictures, but the content is debated. Is the Hermit Kingdom a significant thoroughbred exporter?

search for north korea train to russia

JonKnowsNothing November 6, 2022 5:59 AM

@lurker, All

re: 30 white horses…

I looked up some of the search terms and learned that NorK likes Orlav Trotters. These are the horses used for pulling troika carriages.

I have no idea how prevalent horse breeding is at their government level, but most countries have some type of horse racing or other horse based activities.

There are a number of horse sports that aren’t common in the FEI like Buzkashi and similar sports. This involves a larger number of riders all trying to hang on to a goat carcass. The rules are generally simple: hang on to the goat and anything goes to take the goat away from the current holder. Rough and Tumble.

As far as pricing goes, in the USA and EU, UK top yearling (1yo horse) Thoroughbred prices can be in the multiple millions of $$$.

Olympic ready horses need a consortium of buyers to fund the purchase. Top quality horses are sold in EU under strict rules for entry into horse auctions.

Horse auctions in the USA tend to be Buyer Beware. Pretty much every horse transaction in the USA is caveat emptor.

Given the generic pricing of munitions, I wouldn’t think that 30 horses or even 300 horses would buy that much high-tech stuff.

For symbolism horses are unrivaled and worth far more.

There are a number of genes involved with “white horses” and not all white horses are really white. True white is a lethal gene.


Fédération Equestre Internationale / International Federation for Equestrian Sports

ht tps://en.wikipedia.or g/wiki/Troika_(driving)

ht tps://en.wikipedia.or g/wiki/White_horse

ht tps://en.wikipedia.or g/wiki/Lethal_white_syndrome

(url fractured)

Thirty white horses on a red hill. First they champ, then they stamp, then they stand still.

lurker November 6, 2022 12:10 PM

@JonKnowsNotging shows 3 boxcars, if Chinese style 50 feet long they might hold 10 horses each, but not many artillery shells.

vas pup November 6, 2022 2:49 PM


On dual citizenship:

He should renounce his US citizenship through provedure established by US before to become 100% Australian citizen only regradless of Australian Law.

US do not require you have just one US citizenship but you can’t refuse duties derived from US citizenship (tax in particular) by claiming having other second, third whatever citizenship.

US jurisdiction is unavoidable even when there is no agreement of extardiction. In such case US behave as old mafia boss and make to the country US want to exradite person from offer that country can’t decline.

‘Big stick’ is working except for the countries which do have in their constitution (or similar act) clear statemnt ‘we do not exrdaite our citizens’ (e.g. Germany, Israel, Russia as best of my knowledge – I have no idea about Australia – they still behave as UK dominion in many cases)- That does not mean criminals are going to have free ride. Foreign country provides clear evidence to the country of citizenship, and this country conduct own trial by own laws, send to own prison.

@All on media and layoffs:
IT guys probably are not going to be laidoff but rather those censors who are kind of internal ministry of truth.

So they my find new employment in other platforms with same censorship attitude, TV, even government. Censorship is not bad, but it implementation without clear and trasparent criteria is.
So, I do not want to be provided with one-sided even true information. I want to make my own judgemnt. Think with MY OWN head.

vas pup November 6, 2022 2:54 PM

Israeli-made vending machine offers easy sale, trade and recycling of used phones

“Israeli company has come up with a solution: a vending machine that allows consumers to recycle, sell or upgrade to a better — refurbished — model. It aims to save on the energy, natural resources and mining-related environmental damage associated with producing smartphones and to reduce end-use electronic waste.

Enter the phone’s serial number so that the system can check it belongs to you, hasn’t been stolen and has been fully paid for. After ticking a few boxes, you put your phone on the sensor pad, where an artificial intelligence system checks that the claims you have made about your phone are correct, and gives you a price.

!!!!!All phones “ingested” by the machine are sent to a laboratory where the content is “forensically wiped,” in line with the European Union’s General Data Protection Regulation, according to Mali Hadar, who is in charge of development.”

Just curious if such machine settle down in US, are they going to be “forensically wiped” or Big Brother will decide wipe or not?

Happy Sunday!!!

Winter November 6, 2022 3:16 PM

@vas pup

US do not require you have just one US citizenship but you can’t refuse duties derived from US citizenship (tax in particular) by claiming having other second, third whatever citizenship.

But it is “unfair” and unexpected to require people to pay double taxes. These people already paid taxes in their country of residence and were suddenly required to pay the same taxes for the US again with back taxes for years without warning.

Note, these were taxes on income realized without involvement of the USA.

lurker November 6, 2022 5:00 PM


If they’re white horses, they’re not horses.


vas pup November 6, 2022 6:19 PM

@Winter • November 6, 2022 3:16 PM

I stop claiming something is unfair. Here, in US the motto is ‘Life is not fair’.
Do you remember that phrase in ‘1984’ about 2+2 which is = 4 only when you making plane or cannon, but in politics, philosophy it can be anything. You could see a lot of examples of it.

When I follow the law that does not mean I consider it fair, that it just less evil than not follow it.

SpaceLifeForm November 6, 2022 6:47 PM

@ Moderator, -, Clive, ALL

Database problem? Conversion problem? Both?

A comment was posted today to a very, very old article. One of the very first that Bruce ever posted.

It is currently visible on the recent 100, comment-id is 411874.

It was posted as

at 2022-11-06 07:29 CST.

The article is

It says there are 8 comments.

How many do you see?

SpaceLifeForm November 6, 2022 7:22 PM

@ Winter, Clive

re: One Time Programs (OTPr)

Yes, I agree overly complex.

But, two other issues that I would suspect were not thought about much. First, it would be impracticable to use, and second, I do not see it addressing any type of Traffic Analysis.

SpaceLifeForm November 6, 2022 7:50 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing, Clive, MK, ALL

re: Twitter implosion

Apparently, mistakes were made. Doh!

Some that were laid off were not supposed to be.

Some that were laid off are being asked to come back.

Having been un-fired myself, yes, it can work for years, but eventually, you will still come to realize that the new management is not any better than the old management, and the fundamental sales problems will still be there.

This link is purposely open, just pick ‘Let me read it first’ and then dismiss the nag about subscribing.


The layoffs gutted entire teams, including the ethical AI team, which is responsible for making Twitter’s algorithms more transparent, the communications team, which — according to one estimate — went from roughly 80 people down to two, and the entire human rights organization.

Winter November 6, 2022 10:07 PM


Yes, I agree overly complex.

In this respect it is like homeomorphic encryption, too useful to ignore. The benefits of a working system are such that it is worthwhile to try it, even though it is utterly unusable now.

First, it would be impracticable to use,

The hardware token seems a deal breaker to me. If you have to send a one time token with the program, why bother with the program.

and second, I do not see it addressing any type of Traffic Analysis.

The idea is based on Secure Two Party computation [1]. That is well studied. I assume that if a working OTP will be developed ever, it will be more like secure 2 party computation.

[1] ‘

ResearcherZero November 6, 2022 10:09 PM

@vas pup

That vending machine sounds almost as good as buying nails and screws by the pound.

Collecting solar power in space and beaming it to Earth

The basic unit of the system the researchers envision is a 4-inch-by-4-inch tile that weighs less than a tenth of an ounce. Hundreds of thousands of these tiles would combine into a system of flying carpet-like satellites that, once unfurled, would create a sunlight-gathering surface that measures 3.5 square miles. (only $100M)

Obviously you would not want to let children play with it.

Please Come Back

“The US has an aging federal workforce — almost one in five is eligible to retire. Just 7 percent of the federal workforce is under 30, compared to almost 20 percent of the broader US labor force.”

Schedule F would allow for the conversion of any official in a policymaking or policy advisory role into a political appointee. The vague nature of the executive order could effectively allow such a political appointees to fire tens of thousands of white-collar career civil servants by converting them into political appointees.

“deconstruction of the administrative state”

Don Quixote attacks a field of windmills, thinking they are giants.

Throughout the story he performs dozens of brave and heroic acts against mundane objects, thinking they are “enemies.”

Clive Robonson November 6, 2022 10:49 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm, Winter, ALL,

Re : OTPr issues.

“First, it would be impracticable to use, and second, I do not see it addressing any type of Traffic Analysis.”

Working in the reverse,

Traffic analysis is part of “transportation security” not “message security”. If you adopt the view point of a “stack” or Shannon “channels within channels” then the view point is traffic analysis is on an entirely diferent much higher level of the stack, or one of the outermost channels. So I would not expect a traffic analysis defence to be part of a “research/theoretical” model, but rather to be “another part” of a practical system.

Speaking of practical systems…

Yes I have to agree the system as currently described is impractical, but the same can be said of many other security mechanisms, that do eventually with some work, become practical.

I can without reading the paper, think of other ways of doing things but you might have noticed that the design does not solve the secure transportation of “Shared Secrets” a very important aspect of the essential “Root of Trust”(RoT).

Any way I know Matthew Green does occasionaly read this blog, so you never know he might drop by and chat “Pro v Con” of the system.

As I’ve indicated I’ve had reason to think about such systems over the years with respect to keeping secrets secret…

SpaceLifeForm November 6, 2022 11:21 PM

@ Clive, ALL

Re : LISA Remembered.

Thank you for the link.

Wiping good tears from my eyes.

I recommend everyone read it, especially you youngins, because you have no idea of the effort we put in, and the IT tricks we came up with to keep our sanity and make the world function. Indistinguishable from Magic. When a lot of systems design was literally written on cocktail napkins.

SpaceLifeForm November 6, 2022 11:43 PM

@ Winter, Clive

re: One Time Programs (OTPr)

My reference to Traffic Analysis was too cryptic.

I was thinking about physical transport traffic.

How are the tokens distributed? Isn’t it the same problem as securely transferring a traditional OTP via courier?

SpaceLifeForm November 7, 2022 12:55 AM

@ ResearcherZero

re: Collecting solar power in space and beaming it to Earth

You do realize that Earth is in space and already collects solar power, right?

Are you aware of the idea of wanting to launch solar shades into space to reduce the irradiation? Or others that want to have reflective night lighting?

Do you see the insanity?

The Earth based Astronomers are already complaining about Starlink.

We do not need more Energy. We as a species have a consumption problem, not a production problem. We need to utilize what is given by the Sun, and not make the Global Warming problem worse. It is probably too late.

I can imagine a huge energy consumption reduction if more effort was put into ground based Solar, and 12 volt batteries. A lot of stuff could work off of 12 volt directly, such as computers, Ham radios, and LED lighting. And charging cell phones. And, even Starlink.

This idea of collecting more solar energy via mirrors is just nonsense to create another middleman to extract money. Mirrors and Smoke.

The Love of Money is the Root of all Evil.

Beam me up Scottie.

p.s. Please do not post links to paywalled articles. If you can not find an alternate source, best to just ignore.

Winter November 7, 2022 1:32 AM

Re: Musk, Free Speech (capitalized), and Twitter Implosion

To Elon Musk, Free Speech is a Religion. And you know what Religion does to Good People who say the “wrong” things.

This author/artist (Questionable Content) wrote the wrong tweets:

I stopped posting all the time on twitter a couple months back, but over this weekend I did a bunch of satirical tweets impersonating Elon Musk and they went fairly viral and he got so mad he (personally, I like to think) deleted my account. Nothing of value was lost, a good time was had by all, etc etc. If you google around I’m sure you can find screenshots.

I find myself in the privileged position of being able to walk away from a social media account with 80,000+ followers (it had ballooned to over 100k before it was suspended, lol) with no significant penalties to my life or income (as far as I can tell).

Here are some of the tweets, retweeted:

More “Background”:
Elon Musk Backs ‘free Speech’ Post Ban On Twitter Handles Impersonating Sans ‘parody’ Note

Winter November 7, 2022 8:23 AM

There is progress in the world:

Miss Argentina, Miss Puerto Rico Reveal They Are Married

Clive Robinson November 7, 2022 8:50 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm, Winter, ALL,

Re : One Time Program (OTPr)

“How are the tokens distributed? Isn’t it the same problem as securely transferring a traditional OTP via courier?”

Actually it’s worse a lot worse.

Printed “One Time Pads”(OTPa) and punched “One Time Tapes”(OTT) have a lot of “security advantages” over the toys that make their electronic equivalent.

For instance printing on “fly paper” which is effectively cigarette paper washed in a low “entropy hump” nitrate burn to not ash but invisable smoke particulates very easily (get the process a little wrong and you end up with nitro-cellulose compounds that are high explosives that go “high order” if you just stare at them too hard).

Aside from combusting way beyond recovery almost instantly, fly paper can also be easily stored in verifiable tamper evident containers. Thus making secure auditing and all that rests on it relatively easy.

Which without going into details is not the same for electronic devices.

Heck nobody has yet come up with a definitive definition of “beyond recovery” for electronic data storage… It would appear to be that not a year goes by without someone producing research results that show how what was thought was unrecoverable, is now in part or whole recovetable…

It’s got so bad that to get a little future proofing, some “specialized” chips come with not just “thermite” built in to turn the silicon chip into molten silicate glass, but also one or two miniature “shaped charges” to “speed up the process”.

So not exactly something you would want in a mobile phone, you could put upside your head… After all the so called “snap draggon” anti-personal munitions; fire balls of burning thermite or phosphors via the likes of rifle / shotgun cartridges…

fib November 7, 2022 9:57 AM

@ SLF, JonKnowsNothing, All

Likely has to do with this upcoming Tuesday in US. What happened in Brazil is what I call a ‘Good Sign’.

I’m hardly breathing paying close attention to the developments in the US. I wish you all the luck in the world.

As for social media, I am particularly interested in the idea of regulating the presence of authorities on the platform. That would be the single most consequential action towards a modicum of civility.

I would also argue that just as your right to defend yourself does not include the use of nuclear weapons, your right of expression should not include the free (as in beer) use of communications networks. Perhaps I am making a false equivalence, but it is certain that this needs to be discussed frankly.

&ers November 7, 2022 10:29 AM


“Yes I was aware of the Russian “personal computers” initially we had a good laugh about them.”

If you want a more laughing, read this:


Start from the page 85. A lot of interesting reading how they
build an outdated school computer, what technical and organizational
problems they had etc. Also how they went to Kyiv to get a freshly
manufactured Intel 8080 clones – all 4 of them 🙂
You get a good overview how the Soviet system worked.

Winter November 7, 2022 10:35 AM

@SLF, JonKnowsNothing, All

Likely has to do with this upcoming Tuesday in US. What happened in Brazil is what I call a ‘Good Sign’.

As a distant onlooker, I am more worried about the inability of many people to cast their votes due to barriers to registration, excessively, even deadly, long lines, lack of ballot forms, or disputing voter registration, as well as attempts to derail the counting and reporting process. The level of armed voter intimidation in the early voting days is also looking like a prelude to violence on Tuesday.

JonKnowsNothing November 7, 2022 10:53 AM

@Winter, @SLF, All

re: Shallow Water Votes

It may seem that blocking people from voting is new or unusual. It happens in a lot of countries and is nearly universal in the USA.

Much progress has been made in reducing Shallow Water Votes, which is primarily beneficial to the current holders of the position-in-question.

Even so, it has not ever been Open or Above manipulation of one sort or another. (1)

  • Old joke: Florida has more dead people voting than live ones.

That could be taken at face value or the fact that for decades Florida was the place were retired people moved, to live out their days, and wait to die.

In plain old fashioned, straight up, in your face intimidation

  • A burning cross on your front yard isn’t something you forget

Then there is the Lubyanka … American versions have existed and still exist. Our most recent publicly known one is called GitMo.

It’s all allowed, all vetted, all legal: SCOTUS says so.


1) Gerrymandering in the United States

Winter November 7, 2022 12:41 PM


It may seem that blocking people from voting is new or unusual. It happens in a lot of countries and is nearly universal in the USA.

I mainly remember Zimbabwe. But as been said before, the most popular GOP politician behaves eerily like an African Big Boss.

Winter November 7, 2022 3:20 PM

Experience shows that if Yevgeny Prigozhin says something, it is not true. So this news should cautiously be considered positive

Russia’s Wagner Group founder admits to US election interference

A day before the United States votes in midterm elections, the founder of Russia’s Wagner Group, a private mercenary force, has admitted to interfering in US elections and promised to continue.

SpaceLifeForm November 7, 2022 6:00 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing, Clive, MK, ALL

re: Twitter implosion

Moderation is hard. Attribution is hard.

Moderation is harder than Rocket Science.

There is a learning curve. One does not learn this stuff quickly unless you have co-workers with pens and cocktail napkins. If you have not fired them.

Alternatively, one can FAAFO.



Clive Robinson November 7, 2022 6:21 PM

@ SpaceLifeForm, ResearcherZero, ALL,

Re : Do you see the insanity?

I see several, not the least of which is the “energy beam to Earth”…

If you collect solar energy in space there are only three things you can do with it,

1, Process with it aka do work.
2, Store it in some coherant form.
3, Transmit it by conduction or radiation to some destination.

There is a limit to what you can store, due to the fact that “in space” you are effectively in a bound environment of “finite resources”. Likewise there are limits on the work you can do, no matter how efficient the practical reality is thermodynamics compel a degree of decoherance, thus radiation transportation down to the likes of infrared radiation, that can cross the near emptyness of space.

Which brings us to transmission of energy down to earth from orbit. Whilst Arthur C Clark talked of “space elevators” mankinds science and technology is not yet there as far as solid objects for conduction go. That is you would need something with the strength of a diamond and the close to zero impedence of a super conductor. Hence some talk of plasma inside carbon nanotube technology… Which whilst we can envision it and to a certain extent model it from some lab experiment data, like fusion it’s something that is not going to be practicle any time soon. Which brings us around to coherent radiation which we can do…

I won’t go into the details of why it has to be coherent, I will just say it’s efficiency thus safety. But all radiated signals are inherently unsafe unless constrained by a transmission line due to simple maths, geometry, and basic physics.

A radiated beam of energy has to diverge at some point even if it is coherently generated. In radio wave systems using reflecting antennas such as parabolic dishes there is always a percentage of the energy that escapes of tangentially and it gets given the name “spill over”. No matter the size and focal length of such reflecting antennas you will get spill over, and in very high power systems that will involve non negligable, even lethal amounts of power… But as mentioned space is not quite empty, and the earth’s atmosphere definately not. Well if the beam hits any physical object then diffusion / scattering of the energy will take place spreading the energy out over a much wider than intended area. Thus you would not want to be anywhere close to the beam focal point on earth unless you want to suffer from having your molecules vibrated to the point the friction turns you into a glowy little charcoal bricket… Which I must admit is not high on my list of favourd ways to go[1].

Which brings us to the question of,

“What could happen if –by accident or design– the coherent energy beam moves off of it’s designated target point over say a populated area such as a city?”

Not the kind of thing most would want to think about or would see the consequences of from “working knowledge”. But having been a communications, intrinsically safe, and fail safe design engineer in my time, what I can say is you do not want the nightmares of my knowledge to come knocking on your sleep any time soon. Just remember those photographs of shadows on walls and such from the first two nuclear bombs used against civilian targets in Japan at the end of WWII. They were caused by radiant energy and what remained of the individuals was not even charcoal…

[1] Whimsicaly near the top of my list of ways to go is a punchline from an old joke, but the less said about that the better 😉

Clive Robinson November 7, 2022 6:45 PM

@ Winter, ALL,

Re : Free Speech is a Religion.

Remember for “true believers” anyone who is not more commited than they are is a heritic, and history shows how “true believers” deal with those they even suspect of heresy.

Lets just say I do not want to go out on top of a pile of burning faggots[1].

People with such strongly held views at the very least suffer from severe cognative bias, and they can also see any questioning of their core beliefs no matter how justified as a personal attack on them. It does not take much imagination to work out what the result of validation of such questioning would cause people with such core beliefs, the US was unfortunate enough to have seen it break out over the past half decade or so.

[1] A faggot traditionally is a bundle of sticks etc collected as fire wood. The same word for a bundle of sticks firewood in Italian gives us the word fascist. For the same reason as the old Scottish saying of,

“You cany break a stick in a bundle”

Refering to the notion of “strength in numbers” where the numbers make a tightly formed group.

ResearcherZero November 7, 2022 8:05 PM


I’m sure they’ll add a warning on the label not to fry things from space, and really, would anyone notice the death-beam anyway?


Alexander Osadchu (Unit 74455/Sandworm) to head Russian Ministry of Defense department dedicated to developing weapons that use artificial intelligence.

Do dragons have balls and if so, where do they keep them?

SpaceLifeForm November 7, 2022 8:21 PM

@ Clive, Winter, ALL

re: fire balls of burning thermite

Update on Kerch Bridges.

Road spans: THe SE bound section was repaired fairly quickly. Guardrails repaired weeks ago. It is re-striped for one lane in each direction. Still 3.5 ton weight limit. No lorry/tractor trailer traffic.

Supposedly, 250 vehicles can cross per hour. Not clear if that is in both directions. I would think it is only 250 per hour both directions, due to inspections on each end. Obviously, the speed limit is reduced.

All of the damaged NW bound spans have been removed. The piers do not look good.

Rail span: Nothing happening. They have figured out that the spalling worked and it is not structually safe for use.

ResearcherZero November 7, 2022 8:55 PM

Maximizing the Diversity of Exposure in a Social Network

“Our model allows to capture the balance between maximizing the spread of information and ensuring the exposure of users to diverse viewpoints.”

“when we are only exposed to the information that we believe is true, it deepens our — possibly opposing — beliefs and increases the polarisation of opinions”

…Cognitive dissonance and group effects are sufficient: Psychological Experiments with fake suicide notes…

“Once formed,” the researchers observed dryly, “impressions are remarkably perseverant.”

A ‘kind of [by the] seat of the pants’ mode experiment…

In the updated version of ‘Don Quixote’ he fails to notice the magician or the sheep, then is sucked up into the whirling blades of an Osprey by his own conspiracy.


there are an average of 32 windmills per year

SpaceLifeForm November 7, 2022 9:08 PM

@ Clive, ALL

Karma Popcorn


p.s. there are multiple MITM fighting.

SpaceLifeForm November 7, 2022 10:01 PM

@ Clive, ALL

Re: Twitter institutional knowledge

Recommended read.

But, hey, what do I know?

My turnip truck may have a flat tyre.


SpaceLifeForm November 7, 2022 11:33 PM

@ Clive, ALL

Re: Twitter institutional knowledge

Probably the best thing for Twitter at this time, is to suspend the @elonmusk account.

I am not being sarcastic. I am not making a joke.

Can you imagine Musk asking staff why his account is suspended?

Staff: We do not know, you fired the people that could figure it out.

Winter November 8, 2022 4:28 AM

I do not understand the business case of this new product:

Palmer Luckey Blog

If you die in the game, you die in real life.

Today is November 6th, 2022, the day of the SAO Incident. Thousands of VRMMORPG gamers were trapped by a mad scientist inside a death game that could only be escaped through completion. If their hit points dropped to zero, their brain would be bombarded by extraordinarily powerful microwaves, supposedly killing the user. The same would happen if anyone in the real world tampered with their NerveGear, the virtual reality head-mounted-display that transported their minds and souls to Aincrad, the primary setting of Sword Art Online.

In lieu of this, I used three of the explosive charge modules I usually use for a different project, tying them to a narrow-band photosensor that can detect when the screen flashes red at a specific frequency, making game-over integration on the part of the developer very easy. When an appropriate game-over screen is displayed, the charges fire, instantly destroying the brain of the user.

Clive Robinson November 8, 2022 7:12 AM

@ Winter,

“I do not understand the business case of this new product”

Idiots play “Russian Roulette” in it’s many forms all the time…

They call it “thrill seeking”, more rational mature people regard it as “anti-darwinian” for obvious reasons.

Think of the game of “chicken” where two car drivers speed head to head untill either one “chickens out” and swerves with a high risk of “T-Bone injury/death” or they both crash head on.

There are many examples of adolescent games taken to idiotic extreams. As I’ve mentioned before their choices of thrill can be problematic, for instance some do it nearly all the time by the way they drive, you’ve probably seen a few candidates for this in your time. In Israel for example a certain type of “tail gating” got so bad they had to bring in stringent legislation.

Unfortunately these idiots choices can also involve others who don’t want to play, thus become mear collateral damage to the idiots… Who think for some mentally defective reason they are somehow smarter or better than those they have murdered or maimed.

Having nearly been a victim of such behaviour[1] it’s a significant factor in why I don’t get in cars etc where I can avoid it, and tend to use public transport where your personal risk from such idiots is generally considerably lower.

[1] It happened when I was learning to drive at night (something that at the time was not considered as part of testing). As I approached a T-Junction with traffic lights in my favour I slowed manovered etc and suddenly the driving instructor slamed their foot on the dual brake. Luckily I had slowed enough that we stopped in enough time. A black car with lights out and three or four teenage males went through the junction against the lights at two to three times the speed limit. If the car I was in had not stopped in time, they would have ploughed into the drivers side where I was, and it would not have been a survivable collision for me. I later asked my driving instructor what he had seen that made him stamp his foot on the brake, as I’d not seen anything even though I had looked. His reply was a little unnerving in that he said he had only seen a tiny glint of a light reflected for a fraction of a second off of the black cars trim. And… The only reason he had seen it was because he was expecting it and had not, unlike me, looked both ways “in the approved manner”… Apparently it was not the first time it had happened to him as the area had quite a number of “car thefts” by “joy-riders”… He had heard them change gear / rev-up and that clued him in effectively subconciously and he had reacted instinctively. I was “to busy” concentrating on trying to do things right, that even though I realised later I had also heard the rev-up I’d effectively not made the connection at the time.

Winter November 8, 2022 8:15 AM


Idiots play “Russian Roulette” in it’s many forms all the time…

I was a little too terse, sorry.

The original blog does not spell it out but I am quite certain this is not a serious plan for suicidal VR glasses, but, as the author writes:

At this point, it is just a piece of office art, a thought-provoking reminder of unexplored avenues in game design. It is also, as far as I know, the first non-fiction example of a VR device that can actually kill the user. It won’t be the last.

Clive November 8, 2022 8:42 AM

One thing I don’t know why It doesn’t even matter how hard you try Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme To explain in due time All I know Time is a valuable thing Watch it fly by as the pendulum swings Watch it count down to the end of the day The clock ticks life away It’s so unreal Didn’t look out below Watch the time go right out the window Tryin’ to hold on, did-didn’t even know I wasted it all just to watch you go I kept everything inside and even though I tried It all fell apart What it meant to me will eventually Be a memory of a time when I tried so hard I tried so hard and got so far But in the end it doesn’t even matter I had to fall to lose it all But in the end it doesn’t even matter One thing, I don’t know why It doesn’t even matter how hard you try Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme To remind myself how I tried so hard In spite of the way you were mockin’ me Acting like I was part of your property Remembering all the times you fought with me I’m surprised it got so far Things aren’t the way they were before You wouldn’t even recognize me anymore Not that you knew me back then But it all comes back to me in the end You kept everything inside and even though I tried It all fell apart What it meant to me will eventually Be a memory of a time when I tried so hard I tried so hard and got so far But in the end it doesn’t even matter I had to fall to lose it all But in the end it doesn’t even matter I’ve put my trust in you Pushed as far as I can go For all this There’s only one thing you should know I’ve put my trust in you Pushed as far as I can go For all this There’s only one thing you should know I tried so hard and got so far But in the end it doesn’t even matter I had to fall to lose it all But in the end it doesn’t even matter

Ted November 8, 2022 9:09 AM

I’m just a little over halfway through the book “The Ransomware Hunting Team” which I originally heard Dave Aitel mention somewhere, maybe the Cyberlaw podcast?

I was a little reluctant to start it because, well, ransomware seems so ugly and depressing. However, the book is surprisingly engaging. It’s carried along by the personal life stories of the team’s members, including Michael Gillespie, a doggedly-focused techie who helps ransomware victims for free but who often can not afford his own bills.

And for any nerds out there, there some insightful looks into the cryptography and skills involved in the making and breaking of this technical scourge.

Josephine Wolff reviewed the book for the NYT.

JonKnowsNothing November 8, 2022 11:10 AM


re: Health data transfers to Palantir sans consent

A few recent MSM snippets on Government Health Data being transferred to Palantir and Palantir LEA softare.

In the UK, the government plans on a wholesale upload of some/all of UK health data to a Palantir software system. The data is not anonymized. It is all the data on a person. The UK Gov has also determined that ZERO CONSENT is needed to upload the data. Details are sparse, as can be expected.

In AU, it has come to the notice of some in the State of Victoria, that their COVID19 Contact Traces were uploaded to a Palantir implementation used and controlled by their Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission authority in 2020. Nothing was said at the time and there is little being said now. Again no consent.

solo November 9, 2022 12:10 AM

Mysterious company with government ties plays key internet role
TrustCor Systems vouches for the legitimacy of websites. But its physical address is a UPS Store in Toronto.


SpaceLifeForm November 9, 2022 1:22 AM

@ fib, Winter, Clive

Voting results so far, so good. Will know better in a few days. May not know for another month due to a runoff vote in Georgia. Ring a bell?

Interestingly, I was Mr. Irrelevant at my poll. Literally the last one allowed to vote. Seconds to beat closing time. I spent 15 minutes doing the ballot, but I was legal. I knew my votes would not matter, but it does matter that I voted. Because that shows support to someone that lost anyway.

Plus, I got another decent pen.


Winter November 9, 2022 2:08 AM


May not know for another month due to a runoff vote in Georgia. Ring a bell?

They should do that everywhere in the Anglo-Saxon world. It is much cleaner than the first-past-the-post system. It also means that
1) The winning candidate has a clear mandate
2) Candidates know they have to woo back also those who don’t vote for them the first time.

SpaceLifeForm November 9, 2022 4:21 PM

re: Twitter implosion

If I was running Twitter at this point, can you guess what I would have done at this point in time?

Answer: Nothing.

Well not nothing. I certainly would not have fired any tech folk at this point.

I would want to learn and understand the systems. I would have already brought @dotMudge back to explain stuff and gain the institutional knowledge.

I would talk to tech folk dealing with day to day issues, and ask them for input. I would Listen.

Yes, I understand the problem of bleeding over $3m per day. It is not a new problem because Twitter only made a profit in 2 years out of 12 years.

How that really happened is an interesting question by itself.

Which tells you that there are structural system issues that can not be dealt with in an instant. There is probably a bunch of overpaid management that is just dead weight.

I would not have came in guns blazing and fired the tech folk. They are the ones that have the institutional knowledge.

Basically, Elmo (stealing from @emptywheel) is providing years worth of textbook material for a degree in Mismanagement.

Sad to watch.

But, hey, what do I know?


p.s. You can download your own Blue Check from the internet for less than $8.

ResearcherZero November 9, 2022 11:03 PM

Toebbe made another ‘dead drop’ of an S.D. card in eastern Virginia, this time concealing the card in a chewing gum package.

“For those who do come into possession of our nation’s secrets either through service in the Australian Defence Force or service in any other part of the Commonwealth, there is an enduring obligation to maintain those secrets.”

Duggan flew Harrier jump jets in the US Marines and was an air combat instructor.

ResearcherZero November 9, 2022 11:49 PM

initial review of the work undertaken by the Parliament’s Pegasus committee

The committee of the European Parliament investigating the use of Pegasus spyware has expressed its concern about the lack of cooperation by the different national governments in declassifying information that could be useful in revealing who authorized the espionage, one of the major questions behind these cases.


Committee of inquiry to investigate the use of the Pegasus and equivalent surveillance spyware

The surveillance of politicians, prosecutors, lawyers and journalists, and other persons and entities in EU Member States using cyber surveillance software

The App Store on your iPhone is watching your every move

If only one company is collecting the data, it’s not tracking.

JonKnowsNothing November 10, 2022 12:35 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm

re: Twitter implosion and 3-4 Mill a day

Doing a hostile take over of a company comes with built in penalties. Sometimes those penalties including “thinking you already know what’s what and what’s where”.

It may be that, being an End User, EM-HT, thought he knew how things worked. So why wait?

Waiting gives the White Elephant Sacred Groups time to retrench. It is these groups that you need to jettison quickly. They are only identifiable because everyone in them gets special perks and no one else can do anything that runs counter to these group’s designs.

Companies do not go out of business because they post losses or have negative numbers on their books. Many companies regularly have such conditions with the occasional blip of profitability. They go out of business because they run out of CASH. Operating expenses are required to keep going.

At 4Mill/day * 7 = 28Mill/week * 52 == ~1.5 BILL per year CASH LOSS.

You have to have that much cash in your pocket to keep the doors open.

Perhaps that is why EM-HT just sold another pile of paper.

ResearcherZero November 10, 2022 3:26 AM


Obviously they need better accountants and private jets.

Chevron – total income from $9.16bn to $113.06m and paid $30 tax.

Chevron is the world’s third largest and most profitable Oil & Gas Company – yet, Chevron has:

stashed over US$35 billion in un-taxed revenues in off-shore accounts
at least 600 shell companies -and likely hundreds more- registered in Bermuda and Delaware
set aside AUD$350 million to settle a tax avoidance lawsuit with the Australian Tax Office (ATO)
set up a new tax scheme, currently being audited, to reduce its tax bill by AUD$35 billion or more
amassed credits to avoid royalty payments on the Gorgon project, the world’s largest liquefied natural gas (LNG) project, for the first 8 years of operation or longer
had operating revenue in Australia every year since 2011 of over AUD$2.5 billion, but managed to receive over AUD$30 million in tax refunds

More than half of the mining, energy and water companies included in the report paid no income tax in 2020-2021

Alumina Ltd paid no tax on nearly $350 million.

Santos paid no tax on its $68 million in taxable income, off more than $4 billion in revenue.

Woodside made only $157 million off $6.7 billion in revenue and paid no tax.

Bluescope Steel made more than $600 million in taxable income and paid no tax.

News Corp has received more in taxpayer handouts than it has paid in tax in total. News Corp made more than $140 million in taxable income but didn’t pay any tax.

Glencore made only a little over $2.8 billion in taxable income off $16 billion in revenue and paid no tax.

Employees and agents of a British subsidiary of mining and trading group Glencore used private jets to transfer cash to pay bribes to oil officials in West Africa.

ResearcherZero November 10, 2022 3:37 AM

the second law of thermodynamics states that Maxwell’s demon only exists when applied to taxation theory

considerable advantages offered by this type of storing and coding information

Szilard,then Brillouin showed that the demon would require information about the molecules, in which case, the energy involved in obtaining information would be greater than that gained and so the second law remains inviolate.

SpaceLifeForm November 10, 2022 3:54 AM

@ JonKnowsNothing

re: Twitter implosion and 3-4 Mill a day

Yes, there are White Elephant Sacred Groups, no doubt.

But Elmo has no clue. He should have cut out the White Elephant Management first, not tech folk. You know, that as a tech, you do not need management. You know they just get it your way, waste your time, and interrupt your productivity. Every day. They are dead weight. You know what the issues are, you just need time to concentrate on those issues. Some issues are short term, some are long term. But you know what those issues are.

Maybe that is just me, but I’m pretty sure that most of the tech folk readers here with even a few years of experience would agree that you really do not need much management infrastructure to keep tech folk functioning.

They know how to keep notes, and how to interact with their coworkers.

They do not need to be in mindless meetings where a dead weight management person has to act like they have a role in life.

Clive Robinson November 10, 2022 4:13 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm, JonKnowsNothing, ALL,

Re: Twitter implosion

It is to be expected, in fact demanded “by the market” of “fly by night” “make fast buck and run” financial investors.

As I keep pointing out “short term thinking” that is based on “making “next quaters figures” is destroying US industry.


“Well not [do] nothing. I certainly would not have fired any tech folk at this point.”

Would be a reasonable response for the person in control, who has a sensible long term stratagem.

But Elon Musk is not in control the devil of “Market Expectation” is, and that will bleed Musk drier than a mummy in the desert, quicker than a furnace in hell.

It was his choice, he “went down to the crossroads and sold his soul” to call the tune, now he has to pay the piper.

For every one with their money in Silicon Valley “Big Corp” especially “Social Media” now would be a very good time “to get the heck out of dodge”. Because the whole mess is about to suffer techtonic rebalancing, starting with social media and radiating out like the blastwave of a bomb, taking much with it.

The sign that severe trouble is on the way for the US economy has been building.

Under GW Bush job losses were as much if not more than the entire jobs gains in WWII. However if you believe “the market” US production has steadily risen…

Actually what has happened is the Fed has through the banks bought around 4trillion of Tresury bonds, and implemented “quantative easing”.

That 4trillion has gone into the hands of just a tiny few who have taken it “off shore” in one way or another and also bought up as near as they can every “rentable asset” there is.

In the process kept hidden as best as possible the US has changed from a production and trade economy to a credit and debt economy, where the few use credit to buy assets and then “pass down the debt” to everyone else. Who now are absolutly dependent on “Paying Rent” to survive…

And there is not the “production-trade” needed to support this rent paying.

The only reason the US is still floating is it forces others to “Buy US Product in Dollars”.

But has anyone actually asked the question,

“What is US Product?”

Well not 4trillion of manufactured product that is for sure. Most of it is actually the “knowledge bubble” seen as “software” and the “ideas” behind it of the various Dot.Com bubble organisations in Silicon Valley and thr like. Lead by “marketing driven” “Social Media” / “Web X.0”, Crypto-Coin, NFA, Smart Contracts etc.

The modern day version of a “Black Tulip Market”.

History shows what happens with such markets, have a look at why England could buy up Scotland so cheaply as another example.

Musk has “no control” and “no choice” Twitter “is his Cryptonite” now effectively “chained around his neck”, pulling him down… The market has seen, and now they will do their best to strip not just the shirt of his back but flay him down to the bone. Have a look at what George Soros did to the UK when it’s government “Went down to the crossroads” over signing up to meetine Euro Entry rules…

Which by the way, was the cause of all those other “shady backroom deals” that has flayed the citizens in the South of the Euro Zone.

The sad fact ” most people are sleep walking onto a trap” and they have to wake up and realise that contrary to what they are brainwashed into believing “Governments do not run countries any more” the “Finance Markets” do, and their plans for 99.99% or more of the worlds population is that willingly or unwillingly they will be “asset stripped” and turned into “Rent Serfs” worse off in many cases than those in prison on life sentances with no parole.

But hey don’t take my word for it,

“Go out and look for yourself”

ResearcherZero November 10, 2022 4:31 AM

It has been said a gaseous like substance called ‘caloric’ has been know to transfer energy between bodies in a process called “profit shifting”.
Some speculate that this happens by palm-to-palm transfer, using a medium referred to as ‘cash’, or sometimes in units of cash know as a ‘briefcase’.

It is more likely that – “MNEs can take advantage of the differences between jurisdictions’ tax systems to minimise their tax paid, typically by moving the incidence of taxation from a high taxation jurisdiction to a low taxation jurisdiction, or by avoiding a taxable presence in high taxation jurisdictions altogether.”

“Every year, trillions of dollars flow out of developing countries due to the activities of criminals, corrupt politicians and officials, and tax evaders.”

An illict process named ‘price-dumping’ is also sometimes employed.

“It was, ladies and gentlemen, the very definition of price-dumping.”

Winter November 10, 2022 8:59 AM


Governments do not run countries any more” the “Finance Markets” do, and their plans for 99.99% or more of the worlds population is that willingly or unwillingly they will be “asset stripped” and turned into “Rent Serfs” worse off in many cases than those in prison on life sentances with no parole.
(emphasis mine)


When Jakob Fugger the Rich (1459 – 1525) ran his banking business in Augsburg, he decided what the Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian could and could not do (especially which wars he would fight) as well as influencing who would become pope. His nephew Anton sold the title to Charles V and later to Ferdinand I. They also had a big hand in the counter-reformation wars.

I am not aware that there have been periods since then that this has been otherwise.

Winter November 10, 2022 9:07 AM


You know, that as a tech, you do not need management.

I think you are missing something. To extract money out of a company, you need management. Tech people only cost money.

Elon Musk has just sunk 20+% of his money into Twitter. Most of the rest is not really liquid. That is a lot to gamble away.

Twitter has never made a profit. I understand Musk wants to streamline it into a cash cow, or at least not a cash drain. Maybe that was the meaning of the Sink? Twitter is a sink where money pours down the drain.

JonKnowsNothing November 10, 2022 9:28 AM


re: Health, Data, Palantir, Medibank and NoLooking

The hacking and doxing of large datasets maybe the new public face for surveillance.

Our current model (for public consumption) is the back door data broker direct to LEA/Palantir agencies.

The new model (not wanted) is the whole sale doxing of EVERYTHING, by-passing the monetary exchange (refusing to pay) and results in the same information being published on-line and (in theory) available to anyone who wants to look up how many cavities you have.

The Medibank situation has now escalated to the doxing stage and oodles of personal ID health data was reportedly published. There is a catch.

The Catch is:

  • If you try to look to find out if your personal data has been doxed, it’s a criminal action violating Australian Privacy Laws.

Yes indeed, those very same laws that were used to facilitate Databroker to Palantir data exchanges in secret, are now used to prevent individuals from finding out what has been published about them. The Right To Be Forgotten can’t be requested because you don’t know what’s out and what’s not.

A limited time sub to a antivirus program isn’t going to help much.

Consider What If:

  • Everyone’s data is always public, all the time, 7×24?

We already have this but it remains slightly under the door mat.

  • How much of the Medibank data will get published? TBD
  • Which data is getting published? TBD
  • When will they publish prostate exam results? TBD
  • When will they publish the data on women’s healthcare choices? DONE


htt ps:// m/australia-news/2022/nov/10/abortion-data-from-medibank-hack-posted-on-dark-web-as-clare-oneil-pledges-to-pursue-scumbags

reference post

htt ps:// m/blog/archives/2022/11/friday-squid-blogging-newfoundland-giant-squid-sculpture.html/#comment-411989

(url fractured)

Clive Robinson November 10, 2022 9:40 AM

@ Winter,

Re : Finance rules…

“I am not aware that there have been periods since then that this has been otherwise.”

Prior to that Popes assumed they ruled over kings, hence Henry VIII pulling out of that unhealthy aliance. Then there were the Borgias also called “The Papal Family”…

But yes Monarchs have always had to depend on Church or Landed Barons to hold their position. It was something parliments and representational democracy was supppsed to fix…

It’s why I said,

The sad fact ” most people are sleep walking onto a trap” and they have to wake up and realise that contrary to what they are brainwashed into believing

Not everyone is “brainwashed” though “curriculum controled school education” by politicians tries to ensure otherwise. But of more recent times the “church” has decided it’s time to get “back in the game” of “mind controling the children” for power as well…

Yes I know it sounds mad to say, but the simple fact is, if you can get at the children under ten you can sow ideas in their heads they have no ability to understand or fight, thus they become “cognatively biased”. Something that Cults know all about as do some churchs which is why they focus on mothers and their children, to get the next generation “of faithful”…

Some Countries for instance as I’m sure you are aware have a “church tax” or similar power share to try to keep them from causing to much trouble, but times are changing.

Land Barons, are such “old money” that it has little strength, they hwve been replaced by the “new money” of global corporations and the finance industries, kept “off shore” to avoide “political control” being exerted on them…

As I said to close you don’t need to believe me, or for that matter agree, all I ask people to do is,

“Go out and look for yourself”

Winter November 10, 2022 10:17 AM


f you can get at the children under ten you can sow ideas in their heads they have no ability to understand or fight, thus they become

De book banning in schools and libraries in conservative US states.

Note also how furious the book burners react to “wokeness”?

There is no idea as abhorrent as the underclass demanding their right to be as sensitive as the ruling class about the discourse.

JonKnowsNothing November 10, 2022 4:01 PM

@Winter, @Clive All

re: There is no idea as abhorrent as the underclass demanding their right …

The upper-class is less worried about the true under-class than they are about the “in-between-class” (1) finding out they are also the under-class.

Under-class folks standing in food pantry lines aren’t really much of a threat. We are too cold and hungry (2) to worry about EM-HT and such likes. They have little or no impact on our day to day issues.

The other group though is a serious threat to the upper-class. Everyone wants to be “royal” until the find out what goes with the job. What they want is pretend-royal. The upper-class folks provide them with enough pretend to keep them entertained without them realizing they will never be “royal”, not even if they get a title, and their end is pretty much the same one as ordained for the under-class group. The primary difference is this group of folks has more assets to claw back.

As long as the in-between-group can maintain their fantasy, they aren’t a danger. So they get their fantasy of being Special or God’s Anointed or First On The Tee perks. It costs noting but pays many dividends.


1) There are many group titles assigned to this group/spectrum and in USA many will never admit to being upper-class. We have a sigma about being upper-class unless you are on the Forbes List. Everyone in this group calls themselves middle-class, even when they are in the top 3% of wage earners.

The danger is that this 3% wage is quite temporary in duration. Once they fall out of the 3% wage group the drop is precipitous.

So it’s obligatory that the upper-class hides this future outcome by any distraction possible.

2) Moi

EvilKiru November 10, 2022 4:44 PM

@SpaceLifeForm: As of 5:42 PM EST, it says 7 comments and I see exactly one comment.

That comment is: Eek, a mouse.

SpaceLifeForm November 10, 2022 4:56 PM

re: Twitter implosion


“We are tracking recent developments at Twitter with deep concern. No CEO or company is above the law, and companies must follow our consent decrees. Our revised consent order gives us new tools to ensure compliance, and we are prepared to use them.”

According to messages shared in Twitter Slack, Twitter’s CISO, chief privacy office, and chief compliance officer all resigned last night.

SpaceLifeForm November 10, 2022 8:54 PM

@ EvilKiru, Moderator, -, Clive

Thank you for checking and reporting your observation.

As I now see the comment count at 7, that tells me that the spam comment was deleted, and the comment count was decremented.

Yet, I still only see the same single comment that you observe.

Last I checked, 7 does not equal 1.

This tells me that there is an existing database problem, or there was a conversion problem. Or both.

It is also interesting that since conversion, the comment count seems to be always correct. Yes, I have checked by eyeball counting. Many times I have checked.

Which does point to a conversion problem mostly, and many old comments may have been lost.

But, hey, what do I know?

Clive Robinson November 11, 2022 1:08 AM

@ JonKnowsNothing, SpaceLifeForm, Winter,

Re : HIP-RIP and 20% inflation in UK.

Normally I would not post this sort of link, but people have asked about what is going on in the UK with regards yhe madness of the lunatic “Mini-budget” ot the extrodinarily short lived PM and her cabinate.

Well she maybe gone but the policy corpse marches on zombie like, and with the Bank of England saying “worst recession since 1920’s” likely to be in for the next half decade or more…

One piece of advice might need to be viewed with a quite a bit of care. Cost of credit and borrowing… The normal advice and it’s generally correct is “Don’t borrow as debit kills you”. However “If and it’s a very big IF” you can get low cost credit you can pay off within a year, you might save money by buying long storage food that requires zero storage energy. Likewise replace older upright freezers with more energy efficient “chest freezers”. What do I mean by “low cost credit”… In times of incteasing inflation Governments for political credibility reasons artificially depress the headline value of inflation which in turn keeps/brings down the cost of credit. In the UK they Government are talking 10% but those buying basic food that is shelf stable have seen 25-100% rise, and significant shortages on vegtable oils, wheat based products and rice amoungst others even sugar and coco powder has risen by more than 30%. Tined meats and vegtables 30% or more, and jars of jam, honey and similar 40%. As for “dried fruit” well in part Xmas/winter festival can be blaimed but 50%. Such inflation “is expected to continue for a year” possibly more. If you can get cheap fixed rate credit at half those figures then with carefull buying you will be ahead of the game. Likewise an upright “fridge freezer” is usually the biggest consumer of electricity in a home –if not used for heating– in the UK 30% increase in “home energy cost” has been predicted, worse the UK Government may have to increase VAT. The cost of an energy efficient chest freezer to run to store meat and if you know how to freeze them butter and certain types of cheese and even eggs likewise cheap seasonal vegtables and herbs could save you money as well as “even out the bumps” of shop prices.

Even “food-bank” food gets bumps and breaking a cheap sliced loaf into pairs of slices in sandwich bags you can reuse and freezing the loaf will mean you won’t waste it and will probably use less (you can’t just eat when peckish/bored when food is frozen so you have to plan and that alone can save you 10-35% as it cuts wastage as well).

None of this advice is realy “Prepping” as certain people like to denegrate it, but “Sound Home Economics” that your grand parents and great grand parents that lived through two world wars and two major recessions would understand. It’s a fundemental art of survival, where politicians would rather you be dead so they can grab 40% of your estate (in London death duties on a home etc can be easily in excess of 400,000GBP a sum few could find or borrow, so “assets” are “force sold” to be purchased by speculators and those with “unearned income” from those forced to pay rent (which in London has gone up by 25% just recently).

Winter November 11, 2022 1:47 AM


buying long storage food that requires zero storage energy.

None of this advice is realy “Prepping” as certain people like to denegrate it,

All very sound advice. The problem is that food takes a lot of storage space.

An adult needs between 2000 (woman) and 2500 (man) kcalories a day. Canned legumes are around 120 kcalories per 100 grams (net). Peanut butter is around 400 kcalories per 100 grams, and you can basically live off peanut butter forever. The good part is that canned food, peanut butter and the likes can be consumed without cooking.

The armed forces know that nothing beats chocolate to keep marching [1]. But I know it is difficult to keep stored chocolate unconsumed.

You can calculate how much you will have to store to live on that for a month. It takes quite some room and also money. So pick your food wisely. Also, rotate stored food. It is no use to end up with bad food when the dire times arrive.

[1] Shaw’s play Arms and the man gave a very good reasoning for that.

SpaceLifeForm November 11, 2022 1:49 AM

@ Clive, ALL

re: Twitter implosion

According to Bloomberg, Banks are trying to dump their investment in Twitter, at 60 Cents to the Dollar.

Well, the best I can say to the banks, is, Good Luck.

Because Elmo is already talking about taking Twitter into bankruptcy.

Tomorrow, they may only ask for 40 Cents on the Dollar.

By Monday, they may only ask for 20 Cents on the Dollar, and you will get a free toaster!

Winter November 11, 2022 2:47 AM


Because Elmo is already talking about taking Twitter into bankruptcy.

I see some problems on the horizon:


Under the company’s settlement with the FTC, Twitter is required to perform privacy reviews before it makes any changes to its products. But in a letter posted to Slack by an attorney on the company’s privacy team and reported by the Verge, the author says that they heard the company’s head of legal, Alex Spiro, “say that Elon is willing to take on a huge amount of risk in relation to this company and its users, because ‘Elon puts rockets into space, he’s not afraid of the FTC.’” The company’s legal team is now asking engineers to “self-certify” that their features comply with FTC rules and privacy standards, according to the Verge.

Maybe Musk was banking on a supportive Red Tsunami and “new” president to protect his one sided “Free Speech” agenda. Otherwise I do not see how taking federal agencies head on on settlements can be considered a smart move.

Also, the politics in Europe, Japan, and Korea have very specific ideas about privacy and fake-news. They are not helped with getting rid of people in compliance and privacy protection.

Clive Robinson November 11, 2022 3:17 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm, Winter, ALL,

Re : Twitter will not be a soft landing…

“Elon Musk does not have a Twitter account, anyone who claims to be the “real” Elon Musk is a fraud.”

As the two old sayings have it,

1, Time makes fools of us all.
2, There is no fool like an old fool.

Which I guess brings us to,

“… they heard the company’s head of legal, Alex Spiro, “say that Elon is willing to take on a huge amount of risk in relation to this company and its users, because ‘Elon puts rockets into space, he’s not afraid of the FTC.’”

Remind me now, what fine did Musk get for “running his mouth” oh and that legal person at Uber who was pretending to be a techie, what has he just been “clunk clicked” for?

The first rule of dealing with bureaucrats is to remember they can be just as petty and vindictive as they like, as they have near zero risk of recourse as long as they stay within the rules “they are golden”. Further they will happily spend lots of tax money on show trials as they will argue that such costly publicity actually saves money by discouraging others…

I have a feeling Mr Musk will be not just bled white by the finance markets, but also hung out to dry by the regulators.

Such is the price of “going down to the cross roads”…

Clive Robinson November 11, 2022 4:41 AM

@ SpaceLifeForm, ALL,

Re : Is Twitter Bankruptcy avoidable?


According to Reuters three people who have seen Elon Musk’s first company-wide email to Twitter staff, have told them,

“Musk warned that Twitter would not be able to “survive the upcoming economic downturn” if it fails to boost subscription revenue to offset falling advertising income”

This is a simple truth I’ve been pointing out for a while now. It’s not just Twitter that are seeing falling add revenue, it’s all “social media” and most Internet Services.

Internet marketing has always been,

1, Fraudulant in many ways.
2, Mostly a compleate failure.
3, Hype / Bubble market.
4, A pump and dump vehicle.

Oh and don’t fall for the inevitable “Web 3.0 will save us” nonsense that will be talked up.

Back in the 1990’s I did research work into how you could raise revenue on the Internet in a sustainable way and my conclusions as I’ve mentioned on this blog before were not even back then encoraging.

My view was and still is, the only model revenue raising scheme likely to be sustainable for the Internet are the ones used by the telephone operators…

I suspect that Elon Musk’s place in history might be assured as,

“The man who burst the Internet bubble”

Let us get realistic all the economic indicators are that we are heading into a recession the like of which no living soul remembers or would want to and the only thing likely to stop it would be another World War or similar.

Almost the first thing that happens in a recession is businesses “re-evaluate” specifically costs which tenfs to fall on staff and advertising / marketing.

For those that don’t know Marketing and Religion are the two biggest money moving industries. Marketing tends to create “churn” unlike Churches, and so underpins or atlrast touches all parts of a modern economy…

Money churn is like music in a club, when it stops the fun is over and it’s time for the last one out to turn off the lights…

If the economic predictions are correct and I see no real reason to disbelieve them as they are “overdue”, as one person recently put it,

“Pretty soon we will not be able to buy a newspaper to wipe our arse on”.

The same applies to much of the commercial side of the Internet, that has never realy made money, and only got invested in on promises of growth in eye-balls that clearly are nolonger there.

The three qurstions for us the “netizens” are,

1, What price for Internet sustainability?
2, Will we be able to aford it?
3, Will we want to pay it even if we can?

Much rests on that answer to the third question. Some argue that we can not go back to pre-Internet times that to do so, will destroy mankind as we know it…

Maybe as only the quite young know it, but nearly half my life has been without the Internet, even though I’ve spent much of my working life in communications.

I also live with “modern conveniences” available if I want them. But I know how to live and have lived for times as my grand parents did out of choice, thus the modern conveniences I have are actually few, and those I do have I can mostly easily live without.

It’s been noted by some that I have a number of “rustic decorations” such as candle sticks and oil lamps mirrors and glass fronted pictures and similar. I do point out that nice as they look, they are all atleast “dual function” and “decorative” is not the function that is important to me.

Even the books in the book cases have more than “decoration” and “information” as functions, they also make fairly good insulation as do the blankets used as seat throws.

Because back in the 1970’s due to “Three day weeks” and “Strikes” I had to live like many others through “power cuts” and “black outs” when you only had a candle or lamp to “live by” for lighting and heat.

Winter November 11, 2022 5:37 AM


Let us get realistic all the economic indicators are that we are heading into a recession the like of which no living soul remembers or would want to and the only thing likely to stop it would be another World War or similar.

Similar could be as in “Climate Collapse”.

High density population areas are starting to become inhabitable. The Mediterranean might have to little rainfall to service the people that live there. More regions have populations beyond the fresh water available.

Outside of the fake-news guard, climate problems are starting to bite hard. This means serious investments are needed to remediate the symptoms of climate catastrophes, prevention of worse catastrophes, and energy change.

Contrary to the earlier economic crises, the current crisis has a lot of money (global outstanding bonds is $128tn, with tn of trillion). The estimated $5-7 trillion per year needed make up only 25 to 40 percent of annual global investment. [1]

The other difference is that we are in an era with labor shortages: Even if the capital is there, there are no people who can do the actual work. There is a serious shortage in solar panels because not enough are produced and those that are produced cannot be installed due to a lack of people who can install them.

In practice, with current low interest rates, this means that there are trillions looking for a profitable investment. Currently, a wind turbine or solar panel can easily give you 4% interest. It pays to invest in this technology. The reason investors do not jump onto such investments is that the politics and regulatory framework is not in place to give investors the confidence about the long term security of their investments.

One reason of this lack of confidence is the political shenanigans of the current fossil fuel industry. Some important industries will be left on a sinking ship and they fight those who want to get off. Another is that no one wants to be the one who is burned by finding out what does and doesn’t work.

[1] ‘

Winter November 11, 2022 5:42 AM


High density population areas are starting to become inhabitable.

“inhabitable” -> uninhabitable

Clive Robinson November 11, 2022 7:58 AM

@ Winter, ALL,

Re : Climate insecurity gives bio insecurity.

“Similar could be as in “Climate Collapse”.”

Or one of a number of similar things such as “pandemics in the food supply” chains.

There was warning signs a few months back that Avian flu was going to bite more this year than it has previously.

This has raised the cost of not just poultry but egg production to the point of unsustainability. But it’s a double whammy in that events to the East of Europe have raised animal feed prices by 40% or so.

The result is the price of eggs has risen in my local supetmarket by 82% in 8weeks or if you want it as anualised inflation 1.82^(52/8) ~ 4770%…

The price of chicken has rissen 25% in the same period. I’ve no idea about turkey I can’t stand it so don’t buy it. But both duck and goose that I do buy are up over 50%.

In part because producers getting squeased by supermarkets have just “culled their flocks” as low weight “small birds” and put them into the freezer as it’s the only thing that is not making them an a significant loss (apparently current costs for 35,000 egg birds is 1.3million GBP and the eggs are only getting 0.95million GBP). In part it’s a supply and demand response, in that the producers have cut production to bring the egg price up to the point it’s worth while… Howevere the productive life of a layer is around 300days… So they are not buying chicks, which means the bottom is also out of chick production… Which means that if and when prices come back up demand will remain unsatisfied due to the lag of atleast half a year to get chick production back up…

I’ve mentioned in the past the problems China has with Swine flu and how that was more recently also being seen in Europe in places like Poland.

Then there is ruminant “bluetongue Virus” being spread by midges moving westwards through Germany etc… And several other problems, in placrs like the “Americas” I’ll let others chip in with.

So the issues East of Europe are creating not just a world wide grain shortage and knock on protien shortage the “climate” is increasing viral epidemics further reducing human edible protien production.

Contrary to what many have been told/led to think there is not enough vegtable protien production to feed humanity, as it just does not work in the simplistic way they have been told. Put as simply… humans nolonger have the enzimes for most vegetable proteins produced, those we do have the enzimes for only grow in certain climate zones which are restricted for various reasons.

Life as they say is “going to get interesting”…

Winter November 11, 2022 10:18 AM


This has raised the cost of not just poultry but egg production to the point of unsustainability. But it’s a double whammy in that events to the East of Europe have raised animal feed prices by 40% or so.

Animal derived food does not go well with climate. Meat and diary products give rise to large amounts of methane which is a potent greenhouse gas.

One Dutch food journalist summarized it like this:
The Future is Plant-Based or there isn’t a future

The bird flu is a “localized” problem that is also killing wildlife. Might start killing people when the virus crosses the species border and jumps to humans. A solution would be to vaccinate all poultry, which drives up costs, but there are no very effective vaccines available yet.

JonKnowsNothing November 11, 2022 11:17 AM

@Clive, @Winter, All

re: Avian Flu

Avian Flu (HxNx) is a fairly good size family of virus. Some of which do affect people and some do not. Recently one of the DoNots Did. A person got sick from a non-human affecting variant.

The HxNx family is always in circulation, it’s not localized, it’s global.

re: Not Enough Storage Space

Lots of existing camping, hiking, mountaineering sites as well as Old Tech, How To, DIY and Prepper sites have tips on how to store stuff and keep it so it remains edible (by humans). Clive and others have posted tips since at least C19-2019 about how to make things tasty and edible when there isn’t much on offer in the markets.

So some personal practical aspects:

  • What kind of living situation are you in?

If you are living in a car or trailer or RV then you can focus on dehydrated foods. Instant Mash, Instant Soup (not the cup of salt), dehydrated veg. Dried items like peas, beans, rice need cooking time and more water. Portable cooktops and camp stoves can work but it’s nasty in cold weather to cook a pot of beans standing outside but doable.

If you are living in housing (apt room house) convert a closet to a pantry. Your coats don’t need a coat-bedroom, they are happy anywhere you want to drop them. Using them on chairs and sofas as shoulder warmers gets you more usage out of the coat than it does when it’s hanging in a closet.

Once you have evicted your coats from the closet you can use the space to store canned items. If you have funds you can buy or DIY shelving (rolling cart works well). From whatever source you get your food buy 1 or 2 extra cans and put in the closet. If you do constant shop of 2x or 3x a week and add 1 can to your stash, you will have a fair few in a couple of weeks.

It isn’t enough to live on for a year. It’s not intended to do that. It’s a supplement for lack of other rations. Some foods are cyclical or holiday themed. Stock those up when the holiday is over and they go on sale. Keep stocking the food every opportunity.

  • Dry food storage

This can be a shock but much dry food has bugs in it. Flour, rice, beans often come with extra bugs. Keeping the bugs out and keeping them from invading your space are the goals.

  • Put them in the freezer
  • Re-pack them into jars and canister with airtight lids
  • Do not add new packets to an existing canister. You can contaminate good food with spoiled food by mixing packets. Each packet in its own jar
  • Glass jars are heavy but you can reuse a cleaned up jam jar to hold a package of rice.
  • Canisters and storage bins with airtight lids can hold a lot of different quantities and are lighter weight than jars.
  • Use up things that have recombined combo ingredients quickly or first. These are flours with baking soda and oil in a premix.
  • Mark the jar or bin with the date you stored it. The best buy date isn’t really useful after you toss the box out.
  • Check the jars for bugs and toss the contents of the bad ones. Thoroughly clean the jar for reuse.
  • Plan for the short and near term

All it takes is a good look at global disruptions and the catastrophic changes from climate and wars to realize, no matter how good your closet stash is, you are not going to be able to carry it thousands of miles on foot, walking as a refugee.

Think carefully about what you might be able to carry and how if you are facing such uncertainty. (1)


1) A recent MSM photo of UKR-RU conflict showed 3 soldiers walking along a road. The 2 in front carried their rifles. The 3d one behind had a rifle and a bag of shopping.

lurker November 11, 2022 12:15 PM

@Clive, Winter, JonKnowNothing

Within the past week a BBC item addressed the rise of H5N5 in Europe. The problem appears to be not a lack of a vaccine, or lack of willing of farmers to vaccinate birds, but is a lack of willing of vaccine makers to scale up production to the extent needed while easy government money can be had from C19 R&D.

@Ezra Pound,
This is how the world ends,
Not with a bang, but a whimper.

JonKnowsNothing November 11, 2022 12:52 PM

@ lurker, @Clive, Winter, All

re: Vaccines for animal virus

For the HxNx family, generally a targeted vaccine is needed. Each year humans line up for flu shots which often contain a mixture of vaccines for different variants of HxNx circulating in their area. The flu shot in New York USA maybe a different formulation than the flu shot in Berlin Germany. It depends on the models of virus circulation patterns around the global. Planes and Trains all play their part, same as it does for COVID-19.

There are now attempts at making a vaccine for ASF for pigs. The last years of culls has deeply affected some economies that depend on pork for protein supplements, like China.

The challenges for these are the same as for humans: viruses mutate. 1 mutation in the wrong location makes the vaccine useless.

Similar to the current problem with the outbreak of Ebola. There is a vaccine for it, unfortunately it’s for a different variant.

  • Zaire ebolavirus vaccine to be 70–100% effective against the Zaire ebola virus
  • Sudan ebolavirus causes Ebola clinically indistinguishable from the ebola Zaire strain but there is no vaccine available.

The promising and not so promising advent of increased research focus into SARS-CoV-2 has made significant progress in understanding the problems and mechanisms needed for a useful vaccine.

One of the downsides is “vaccine booster fatigue” and the USA is having outbreaks of Polio, Measles and other “preventable” diseases.

JonKnowsNothing November 11, 2022 1:22 PM

@lurker, @Clive, Winter, All

re: Scaling up production and Scaling up prices

In the USA we are always dependent on Extreme Capitalism for everything. Government is not permitted to do or provide anything a business can provide and get paid for.

We have lots of regulations about how things have to be done but the one thing that has few regulations is what the charge or retail price will be.

Our government administered funding for health care (aka medicare/medicaid/veterans health etc) doesn’t always have the legal authority to negotiate for better pricing. Sometimes it is due to restrictions in the laws (passed by Congress which handles the purse, not the Senate). Other times it’s due to a lack of competition. There isn’t much point in too many Big Pharmas providing the same drug as that would lead to competition and competition leads to lower prices (as a rule of thumb).

So its a form of reverse pricing collusion, where Big Pharma leaves an entire market to one or two providers who can set their prices how they like. (1)

It isn’t really a function of manufacturing capacity. There is a function of basic supply where the virus has to be grown in vats and modified before it can be refined into something a person can take (mouth or injection). It’s more of a Lead Time, Critical Path problem. Of course, there are the occasional oopsies where entire vats are contaminated and have to be thrown away. This usually leads to a minor price war as different countries vie to obtain sufficient supply for their at-risk populations.

The main issue for the USA is always “Where’s The Profit”.


1) One MPN (2) medication costs $15,000 USD for 60 tabs. There is only 1 supplier. That’s the discounted price.

2) Myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPN)

EvilKiru November 11, 2022 2:16 PM

@SpaceLifeForm: re: @spacex stating: Elon Musk does not have a Twitter account, anyone who claims to be the “real” Elon Musk is a fraud.

That turned out to be true for only about 2 months.

Winter November 11, 2022 4:47 PM


The problem appears to be not a lack of a vaccine, or lack of willing of farmers to vaccinate birds, but is a lack of willing of vaccine makers to scale up production to the extent needed

Many countries van the importat of meat from vaccinated animals as the antibodies trip the tests for animal diseases. So they cannot distinguish infected from vaccinated animals.

Modern technology can make that distinction, but that is more expensive, more difficult, and requires new regulations. Net importers do not care about problems in exporting countries, so they will not change procedures.

SpaceLifeForm November 11, 2022 9:46 PM

@ fib, Winter, Clive

re: U.S. midterms update

Still looking good. My gut feel is that it will end up 51-49 Dem control of US Senate. NBC just called Arizona. It was obvious yesterday, but they waited until a big batch of drop off ballots were counted and reported just a while ago.

And now, a batch from Nevada just came in, and so the Senate race in Nevada is basically now a tie, but moving in good direction. There are still many ballots to count in Clark County (Las Vegas) which will go heavily Dem.

As to the House, will not know for probably over week or so, but it will be close.

I suspect at this point there are quite a few GOP House members silently hoping that they do not gain control of the House.

Either way, these results are historical. Because, historically, the party in power as President, usually loses ground in midterms.

That did not happen. People woke up and stopped believing the Big Lie. They did not buy the FUD. They voted. Truly Historical.

I’m thinking maybe I should watch some Fox Noise, just for the schadenfreude. To watch their heads explode. Just kidding.

Believe me, this is Truly Historical.

So, @fib, you can start to relax. There is a lot of work to do, but it will get done.

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