Canada Spies on Internet Downloads

Comments

Nicholas Weaver • January 29, 2015 7:23 AM

This is more an analytics pass over data thats already collected: The taps really do record every URL, so what to do with it? Well, you troll the locker sites for interesting (in this case, Jihadi) files, and if anyone downloads an interesting file, you find out who they are from other information. They would get ~300 hits/month.

And if you are going to build an invasive global surveillance system, this is the kind of things you should do with it.

In the west, Jihadis start out as Jihobbiests. So it really is important to discover the Jihobbiests before they develop good OPSEC skills, learn to shoot and shut up and wait. And this looks to be a good way to find some Jihobbiests.

Its also why I hate the “Needle and the haystack” analogy. Its really about pulling threads: the data collected is useless if you don’t know where to start. But if you do (in this case, having developed a process to identify files of interest on locker sites), it really does work.

The 51st State • January 29, 2015 7:50 AM

Yeah, NSA makes the Canadian puppet regime pull some threads, and they make other Five Eyes puppet regimes pull other threads, and NSA gets all the threads from foreign sources to circumvent US law. The security parasites pull threads and threads and more threads and soon they’re disgracing CIA Directors and conscientious prosecutors, surveiling future presidential candidates and supreme court justices, and blackmailing bisexual congresswomen.

Now, this is how a functioning banana republic handles government psychopaths who pick at their threads.

qb • January 29, 2015 8:01 AM

@Nicholas

Are there enough such “Jihobbeists” to justify this method of finding them?

My main problem with it is that it must produce lots of false positives (e.g. a person may encounter a link in a discussion, follow it to research the “document of interest” and decide that it’s a load of crock, but will be tagged by this program). And we know that it’s impossible to remove oneself from governmental “secret lists” once you get there.

Meanwhile, before becoming dangerous, these “Jihobbeists” must develop contacts in certain circles to obtain equipment or whatever, which presents a point of vulnerability already accessible to traditional investigation methods.

Am I wrong?

arkanoid • January 29, 2015 8:07 AM

Do you know that several major Russian home ISPs are monitoring URLs visited by users and send a crawler bot to tailgate each service? And it is not for FSB, it is a partnership with some e-marketing agency, here is their site in Russian: http://www.imarker.ru/ .

qb • January 29, 2015 8:13 AM

@arkanoid

Actually, imarker now belongs to Phorm (London, UK). Hostile takeover, no less! Phorm has been discussed on this site before. There’s nothing too special about imarker.

(Apologies for the off-topic)

BoppingAround • January 29, 2015 9:28 AM

arkanoid,
I posted about iMarker several squid threads ago. Do you know if the Russians have actually acted against it?

Colonel Panik • January 29, 2015 9:29 AM

Congratulation Mr. Schneier you made the Chronicle!

https://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/

Daniel • January 29, 2015 11:13 AM

@qb

What Nicholas Weaver is advocating is the impossible. Zero tolerance policies when it comes to terror as as effective as zero tolerance policies when it comes to drugs. Such policies are not about reducing the incidence of anything, they are about stroking the egos of the security apparatus while everyone else suffers. In fact, I’d go so far as to say what people like Mr. Weaver suffer from is an actual mental disease. It’s a mental disease to attempt to prevent something whose odds are astronomically high.

More people die in airline crashes than do in terrorist attacks but no one involved in the airline industry has a zero tolerance approach to accidents. People in that industry work intelligently to reduce risk but not at any cost–because the ultimate way to prevent all airline accidents is to not fly at all.

In any sane world a return of 0.0001% would result in an immediate cessation of the program, if for no other reason that opportunity cost–the resources would produce a better return invested elsewhere.

vas pup • January 29, 2015 11:30 AM

@The 51st State • January 29, 2015 7:50 AM.
In a past as I recall Canada did not extradite US citizens refused to go to Vietnam war. I guess call Canada as puppet regime is kind of too hard, but everything changes with a time…

MrC • January 29, 2015 11:41 AM

@Nicholas

Wait a minute. Have your jihobbyists committed a crime? (Hint: no.) Is there a specific, articulable reason to suspect that your jihobbyists presently plotting to commit a crime? (Hint: again, no.) So, what business does the government have conducting what amounts to a search of their papers and effects? (Hint: no business at all.) It sounds like your rationale here is that people who dabble or flirt with a particular religion should be subject to special government intrusion into their lives. I hope when it’s phrased that way, you can see that it’s not an acceptable proposition.

I’m also not to fond of the next-step argument, which sounds like “it’s OK for the government to spy on everyone because they only pay attention to the Muslims (i.e., not me).” Really? You really trust them to ignore all that other data (i.e., your data) and resist the temptation to use it for run-of-the-mill domestic law enforcement, tax enforcement, political blackmail, personal enrichment, etc.? And do you really believe that “We’ve always been at war with Eastasia” and always will be? Sooner or later we’ll need a new boogeyman, and who’s to say that it won’t be your religious/racial/cultural group next time.

Clive Robinson • January 29, 2015 12:12 PM

@ vas pup,

In a past as I recall Canada did not extradite US citizens [who] refused to go to Vietnam war

A different part of the Canadian government made that “political” choice.

As I’ve said befor the 5eye IC community see themselves as “above politics” in the same way a king would see himself above common land owners (they are there to be exploited for his benifit).

That is the 5Eye IC see themselves as being superior to “elected politicians” and all others payed from the public purse including the judiciary, and thus accountable to none of them. All they require of the other citizens is that they keep paying the money they demand in return for — effectively — nothing…

Dirk Praet • January 29, 2015 1:59 PM

As with many of these other highly intrusive surveillance and analysis programs, the highlighted results in the presentation are nothing short of impressive: they discovered a German hostage video from a previously unknown target, as well as an AQIM’s hostage strategy which was subsequently disseminated to other TLA’s.

Baktiotha • January 29, 2015 6:28 PM

Maybe the 5 eyes are going back to the good old days of sniffing everybody’s panties but not killing them. After several years of killing and maiming little girls and bridesmaids and guys gathering firewood, and blowing up legal nuclear facilities, NSA is starting to kill what’s left of the US industrial base. Juniper first. Cisco next. Barriers to entry are modest, and market dominance is not worth much when your competitors need only say, “We won’t betray your trust. We won’t sell you out to the spies.” NSA didn’t worry about killing little Pakistani girls but killing corporations, that could really get them in trouble.

Coyne Tibbets • January 29, 2015 6:59 PM

So to find 350 interesting documents, CSE captured, stored, and analyzed 350,000,000 documents–literally yielding one-in-a-million.

Let’s suppose that, for each document, the infrastructure to capture, store, process, scan, and review the document costs $10: then the bottom line is $10 million per interesting document.

Maybe we aren’t paying enough attention to the financials of security agencies.

Bob S. • January 29, 2015 9:41 PM

Mass surveillance is fast becoming a zealous worldwide government ideology bordering on religious.

Leaders believe constant snooping and spying is good. There is no room for any other belief or thought.

Non-believers are the enemy, thus also proving there is an enemy.

My point is, MS is quickly transcending any limits based on logic, facts, human rights or the law. The do because they can and they believe it is good.

Discussion over.

Michael And Ingrid Heroux • January 29, 2015 10:10 PM

@The 51st State

You are right.

In Windsor Ontario between 2008-2009 my wife and I were being targeted by Canadian Intelligence for not working for them. They wanted us to help them entrap criminals, they told us anyone from gangsters to terrorists were their main targets. Our 2 daughters were working for Canadian Intelligence at the time and they came back home to live with us in 2008. Our daughters told us the agent that they were working for wanted them to set us up. At the time my wife and I were using Craigslist to meet guys to go out to the clubs with and have sex with. My wife and I are not gay but we are swingers. We met Canadian Intelligence agents through Craigslist and on the streets and they warned us that there were some agents that were trying to set us up. We used to work for the RCMP but we quit working for them because they wanted us to set people up that were not even breaking the law. Some of the agents we met on Craigslist for sex told us that they wanted to use my wife for sex and they wanted to do video porn and photo shoots with her so they could use the photos and videos on Craigslist to entrap people for arrest. They told us that their main targets on Craigslist were gay men and gay women and they wanted us to entrap gay men and gay women with gay sex so they wanted us to portray being bi-sexual to entrap both sexes. They told us that the Harper government made a deal with Craig and that Buckmaster guy and they would use men and women they met in the Casual Encounter section to entrap unsuspecting gays. When we first met the agents they wanted to know our political affiliations and we told them we alway voted NDP. They told us to be on the safe side not to tell anybody that and then they took DNA sample from inside our mouths and told us that they would be in touch with us. We have been using Craigslist now for over 5 years and over the years we have contacted Craigslist through their complaint process and have complained about the abuse but they never got back to us. We even contacted them with open letters on Craigslist to notify them about the abuse and they started blocking our postings on Craigslist. They also use Ashley Madison for the same thing. They used to use Kijiji but we were able to get them to shut that down. We think their main targets are blacks and people with mental disabilities. We won’t be forced to do something we don’t want to do. Follow the money.

Michael And Ingrid Heroux • January 29, 2015 10:15 PM

This is the “HIDDEN” section of Craigslist that they like to recruit there talet from.

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/search/tlg

Blarp • January 29, 2015 11:18 PM

@Dirk Praet

The hostage was executed before anything had been done by law enforcement. And the hostage plans that were also captured were also useless as, again, the hostage was executed before law enforcement were able to arrive.

arkanoid • January 30, 2015 7:06 AM

BoppingAround seems that only thing we can do is to stop using those ISPs. I doubt there is any legal basis to ban this “service” in Russia. Some people are trying to find one, though.

John Campbell • January 30, 2015 7:24 AM

@Coyne Tibbets “Maybe we aren’t paying enough attention to the financials of security agencies.”

Based on a price/performance ratio, yes, most of this trawling is of dubious value, though, really, someone is going to ask “isn’t saving a human life worth over $10,000,000?”

When the “value” question gets asked, a good counter is “for any intersection, how many must die before a traffic signal is justified?”

How much are we willing to spend in teaching people to drive? Where they learn to yield, not wait until the very last moment to merge at a construction zone, to not do their best to annoy those behind them?

How much is a human’s life worth?

If you ask PETA, a human’s life isn’t worth spit.

If you ask MADD, the numbers are very different.

If you ask a politician, the numbers will vary depending upon what lie is being told since the number “depends” upon the situation.

Sadly, I fear loss of privacy– one of the things that killed off activity on GrokLaw.net, a site that helped us all– impacts society as a whole. I have to admit that I believe enhancing security by undercutting privacy also reduces the likelihood of disruptive technology being created and promulgated which would have otherwise upset existing financial structures.

Yes, my paranoia, unlike most people’s, STARTS at eleven.

Michael Gavin Thomander • January 30, 2015 9:45 AM

Michael and Ingrid, interesting link. Sexual blackmail is an important part of the “IRI party renovation” that installed Harper. If you come across an item in that Craigslist section that looks like RCMP dirty tricks, put it up so anons can have some fun with it.

Coyne Tibbets • January 30, 2015 1:54 PM

@John Campbell

“Based on a price/performance ratio, yes, most of this trawling is of dubious value, though, really, someone is going to ask “isn’t saving a human life worth over $10,000,000?””

Human life has been valued, and that value is, yes, less than $10 million.

See: As U.S. Agencies Put More Value on a Life, Businesses Fret

Those numbers are used to weigh cost of regulation against lives lost. Note that the EPA uses the highest value, at $9.1 million (close to $10 million) but the transportation administration says $6 million.

So how do they use this figure? Suppose there’s a new box that would make plane crashes less likely. They estimate how many lives would be saved by the box and then multiply by $6 million. Suppose it would save 10 lives; this would yield $60 million. If the box costs the airlines more than $60 million, total across all airlines, then the airlines don’t have to buy it, because it’s cheaper to let 10 people die.

(DOT used to use $4 million back in the 80’s, so as a side note I point out the value of life isn’t going up as fast as inflation.)

But, getting back to CES, it’s important to note that these were merely “interesting downloads”. So now the question is: How many lives did noting those 350 interesting downloads actually save?

I’m sure they would want to argue 3.5 million lives saved, but I’m betting it’s probably closer to 3.5. Here in the United States, NSA mentioned they stopped “54 terrorist events”…that all traced to one(!) cab driver and three other men, who raised $8,500 and sent it to a “terrorist group” overseas. Oh, and NSA concedes that, even though that group is on the terrorism watch list, the money was probably actually for political purposes. Lives saved by discovering 54 terrorst events in the United States: Zero! Zilch! Nada!

So it seems ridiculous to assume that “350 interesting downloads” saved any significant number of lives. But if we use the 3.5 guess, then that is $1 billion per life saved, based on my $10-per-document figure above.

Pick your own assumptions and see if the number comes out any better.

Tim Means Value • January 30, 2015 4:33 PM

@Coyne Tibbets “Human life has been valued, and that value is, yes, less than $10 million.”

There’s a philosophic premise smuggled in by very act of placing a market value on a human being.

It assumes a Utilitarian framework where values are divorced from individual valuers, and moreover that humans are property rather than something unownable. This is logically inappropriate, collectivist, and anti-teleological. It systematically drops any natural context in which values might be understood.

Value systems broadly fall into intrinsic, subjective, and objective categories.

Plato’s system used intrinsic values.

Kant’s system was based on subjective values. Utilitarianism is collective subjectivism, so Kant is the closest analog.

Aristotle’s system was based on natural or objective values.

The main reason to oppose mass surveillance is not that it too expensive on Utilitarian grounds, but rather that it is a violation of individual rights as embodied in the Constitution.

The Constitutional value system is based on John Locke’s natural value system, being closer to Aristotle than either Plato or Kant.

Coyne Tibbets • January 31, 2015 1:07 AM

@Tim Means Value

I’m not necessarily arguing that. In essence, I’m arguing that the government is justifying enormous expenditures for violating our rights, on the grounds that we must save a human life.

If you look back to my original message, you’ll see that I argued that, if we assumed $10 per document captured, for 350 million documents, then the cost per document CSE found “interesting” was $10 million…each. Even at a dime per document, they paid $100,000 for each document they found.

John Campbell then countered with the tired argument that, “We must save lives!” Well, the United States NSA captured 54 interesting foreign phone calls, that traced to one individual who probably was a threat to no one. If we use the same success rate for CSE, then no doubt they prosecuted someone–maybe 6.5 someones–and saved no lives at all. Not much justification for a high document price, if true.

So there’s not only the invasion of privacy argument. There’s also the financial argument: How much are you willing to pay in taxes for the government to watch you…and protect you from nothing? Per life saved?

The short story of my previous message is that, on the one hand, the government has valued life for regulation purposes and says its worth $9.1 million per person. On the other hand the government apparently justifies the cost of surveillance (which has been largely ignored) on the grounds that the value of a life is…unlimited, as far as we can tell.

There grounds for the former is profit: How much money should we make the airlines/companies spend to save a life? Basically, the idea is to not affect the profits of companies unnecessarily; and the article I linked makes it clear the companies think those amounts are far too high. These companies are literally arguing that life is cheap, whether they notice it or not.

Then the government creates surveillance programs, which the companies enthusiastically embrace because there’s profit in that money, and all of a sudden possibly, maybe, in some magical world, we might save a life, and that life will only cost you…how much? $100 million, $1 billion, $10 billion?

So there’s not only a privacy argument, but as it turns out, a largely ignored financial argument. If the NSA should spend $10 billion to save one life, shouldn’t also the airlines?

Clive Robinson • January 31, 2015 3:46 AM

@ Coyne Tibbets,

If the NSA should spend $10 billion to save one life, shouldn’t also the airlines?

You’ve made the fundemental assumptional error of “all lives are equal”… they are not and thus whilst a rice pady worker in assia might only be worth a thousand USD what is the life of the POTUS worth in USD.

The airline valuation is way to high it’s on the low side of 2,000,000USD in other calculations, and arguably it is related to a low multiple of the ‘ticket price’. To see why look at “life insurance costs”, that’s the indicator of what an individual thinks their life is worth (or more accurately their employers think it’s worth these days).

Plus the lives the NSA are saving are not those of potentialy real victims but the “political lives” of the politicians who grant them their appropriations every year… And as has been noted in the past by blackmailers “the price of silence is very high”.

As for the US DoD and Secret Service how much do they spend each year on keeping POTUS safe from attack?

Gerard van Vooren • January 31, 2015 8:00 AM

@ Clive Robinson & Coyne Tibbets

You’ve made the fundemental assumptional error of “all lives are equal”…

AFAIK it is worse than that. Most governments don’t care less about the citizens. But they don’t want any fuss. They want the status quo to last.

vas pup • February 2, 2015 11:20 AM

On entrapment:http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31093136
Honeytrap of 21st century.
@all: cost of your life for your family, friends, relatives is objectively priceless. All those millions of $ estimates are only for those calculations when your blood and life matching somebody’s profits. Same applies for cost of war.

Buck • February 2, 2015 9:21 PM

@vas pup

This is rich!

In total, it said, 7.7GB of data had been stolen, including more than 240,000 messages, 31,000 conversations and 64 separate Skype account databases.

Really makes me wonder… Is this how we decide who to send aid/ammunitions to!? The moderate rebels clearly communicate battle strategies through Skype, while the evil terrorists are mucking around with ‘cryptography’ in the ‘darknet’..? If so, things don’t bode well for the ‘good guys’™…

Jane • February 4, 2015 11:44 AM

@Clive Robinson

The value of your life is equivalent to the amount of your life insurance??

I’m sure you’re right that it is used as an estimate, but that is horrible.

My life insurance estimate was more like “how much will my family need to bury me and limp along a few months” vs. “how much life insurance can I afford”…

At no point did I consider or even the salesman suggest a $10K policy for burial expenses meant anyone’s life was “worth” $10K (we’ll leave that to the funeral director). The salesman never suggested I could afford a policy that would in any way be able to replace my expected earnings for the next 30+ years, which might be what I’m “worth” financially to my family.

I’m sure trying to put a $ value on a life is a touchy subject for a lot of people, but aside from that I can’t wrap my mind around correlating it to life insurance.

Clive Robinson • February 5, 2015 3:56 AM

@ Jane,

Yes I know it’s a shock when you think about it, but it is the value you place on your life if you are a believer in “free market economics”. As I’ve noted in the past, employers think the figures are such that it’s worth insuring not just “critical staff” but all staff as it has tax and all sorts of other financial advantages for the business, and because it’s for the business, employees rarely get to hear about it, and those they love do not benifit from it.

However there is something very “middle class” about insuring your life, people at the bottom have trouble putting food on the table, insuring their life just does not figure into their budjets out of pure necessity they are without doubt “poor” by most peoples definition irespective of their actual dollar income. Likewise those at the top two or three pecent don’t need life insurance because the bulk of their vaule is in assets that have been put beyond the ever grasping maw of Government taxation.

As various statistics show something like four fifths of people in the US have no longterm “after death” insurance, just sufficient to cover immediate needs and possibly “pay off the mortgage” protection.

And this is not because they believe they will live into “happy old age” –an illusion long since gone– but because they have other priorities. In the US for instance getting your children educated to a standard where they will not be “the eternal disadvantaged poor”, ensuring that health care covers the family at all times and there is more on the table than stale bread and chemical grease…

It’s having lived for centuries through “poor houses”, “work houses”, “alms”, various famine blights and realising that the “dirt poor” are a nexus from which an early death reaches out to the whole community, that the Europeans put in place various forms of social care. Generally the more industrialized nations with higher population densities such as cities rather than agrarian villages came to the idea that a health population was required for many many “social goods” including “defence by arms” that social care was put in place, but importantly they knew that good education was also needed to keep the supply of engineers/artisans, doctors/nurses, chemists and all sorts of “non gentlemen” researchers to make not just the products of health but industry to pay for them.

It’s a lesson that many appear to have forgoton due to it’s success. It’s a lesson I’m mindful of every time I walk across “Blackheath” in SE London. The reason it’s called “black” is due to what lies beneath, countless unknow people who died long before their time and were dumped into “plague pits”, to this day Blackheath is concidered a health hazard to dig in, thus people live around and play on it’s leafy greenness, but don’t put down foundations on it, but few know why and the leasons it has taught us.

The nonsense you hear spouted by various political groups shows more about how unknowledgable they are, and their funding where it’s possible to trace it shows a self deluded vienal few, who care only about their status amongst their supposed peers, who’s general spite to all others is the same “lords and their ladies” stupidity that held society back for a millennium or so, and make no mistake these people care not for money or progress and the wealth it brings, just the status. They would chearfully vote for policies that would begger the country themselves included, provided it beggered others faster so their status shines out more…

Ultimately that is what the “free market” “American Dream” is all about, I guess it shows how easy it is to make everybody belive in a rigged lottery, that realy only benifits around a few thousand or so people in the US…

Michael And Ingrid Heroux • February 6, 2015 4:40 PM

@Michael Gavin Thomander

You are right.

When my family and I were being harrassed by Canadian Intelligence in 2008-2009 in Windsor Ontario they wanted us to help them entrap gays and blacks. They told us that they use Craigslist to set up gay parties at their homes and wanted us to help them lure the gays through Craigslist, they told us Harper made a deal with Craig and that Buckmaster guy and that they controlled Craigslist. They told us they would lure gays to the parties and from there they wanted us to lure them else where, they said they would usually lure them to the woods. We thought at the time that they meant lure them to the woods to try and entrap them for arrest or maybe to get them to work for them or something but we told them no. They also had a gay club in Windsor set up in a warehouse that they would hold gay parties at and they advertised the club on Craigslist, they would use the club to entrap gays but we were able to get them to close that club down. We though it was just entrapment of the gays but when they told us to move back to B.C. because our life was in danger we found out differently. We moved to Victoria B.C. and the harrassment of our family continued. Canadian Intelligence agents were coming to visit us and harrassing us regularly. They were offering my wife large sums of money for her to leave me and they were telling her that her and the kids would be taken care of is she left me but my wife and I are in love, we have been together almost 30 years now, we wouln’t leave each other for any money in the world. They assulted us and poisoned us there and the good agents there were telling us that our lives were in danger there that we had to get out of Victoria B.C. They had an agent planted in Victoria B.C. as a Doctor and Coroner that was the head of V.I.H.A. which was the Vancouver Island Health Authority. The government of B.C. would use him to testify in court to have children taken away from their families. He was coming to our hotel to try and get us to work with him but we would not. He told us he was a Social Worker and a cop. He kept harrassing us so we went to the Ministry and reported him to the government. After we reported him he tried to run my family and I over on the streets late one night. Shortly after that the Victoria Police force arrested him and charged him with impersonating a police officer and impersonating a Doctor and a Coroner. He was not a real cop but he was only a reserve officer and he was not even a Doctor or a Coroner. The Times Columnist newspaper in Victoria was reporting that he was only a Social Worker impersonating a Doctor and a Coroner and he also had a practice where he was seeing patients. They reported he was from Calgary Alberta by way of the United States and that all of his medical records and school documents were forged. I think it was around the end of 2011 an agent approached us and told us our daughters were murdered to cover up the Canadian Intelligence corruption. We knew we had to leave so we moved to Kamloops B.C. where we found out North Shore Kamloops branch of Canadian Intelligence were murdering gays. We were being majorly harrassed there by Canadian Intelligence agents. They were using the electronic devices on us majorly there and that is where we were poisoned again and I noticed the lumps started growing majorly through out my body. Agents told us I had cancer for the first time and they where following us really closely and coming up to us and talkng to us all the time and telling us that they were listening to us in our hotel room, it was none stop harrassment there. They kept trying to run our kids and my wife and I over on the streets all the time and they were threatening our children with death, they even threated our 9 year old daughter. We were constantly getting death threats. They would yell at me to dress in a red dress and meet them at the North Shore end of the bridge for gay sex and they would yell at me to meet they at Mission Flats for gay sex which we think was on the North Shore also. Kamloops was divided by a river hence the North Shore and South Shore. They were also advertising in Craigslist for gays dressed in a red dress to meet them at the North Shore side of the bridge and to meet them at Mission Flats on the North Shore for gay sex. After we left Kamloops we realized then they were killing the gays. We left Kamloops B.C. and went back to Windsor Ontario for the month of January 2013 to find our 1 older daughter that we heard was murder to cover up their corruption but we looked for a month and couldn’t find her. That is when they sent a gunman and tried to murder the rest of our family but we managed to get away and we left Windsor Ontario. As we were leaving Ontario they sent a group of agents to try and stop us. First they offered us a job working for Canadian Intelligence and after we refused they called the OPP Ontario Provincial Police and tried to have us detained in Ontario before we were able to leave. They told the OPP that I was going to kill them just to stop us from leaving Ontario but the OPP saw right through their games and they let us leave Ontario and return to B.C. We moved to Vancouver where we met agents that told us Harper was the one trying to assassinate us. Shortly after we arrived in Vancouver we heard on the news that they found a man beaten to death in Kamloops at the North Shore end of the bridge wearing a red dress and we heard on the news they also found a dead body at Mission Flat on the North Shore of Kamloops. We were told by the agents that they needed people to do their dirty work. They told us that they were bugging the homes of welfare and disability clients for entrapment and they told us they needed under cover people to work at certain places for spying, they would get people jobs at adult video stores to download the users databases to entrap people by what type of porn they watched. Thanks for reading.

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